AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[anon4vr1]

I have started the routine couple of weeks ago "the auto regulated version" and i have 2 issues.

1. I can't do stiff-leg dead-lift, instead I do Romanian dead-lift. (I think its a flexibility/mobility issue as i struggle to touch my toes with straight legs even without weights)

2. I lean forward in high bar back squat and my heals get off the ground. when i come up i drive through the balls of my feet and feel that i am doing good mornings. i have tried to elevate my heels by plates and use wider stance with toes pointing out. it improved a little but the problem is still there. I also feel tension and slight pain in from of my hip (groin area) after the squats.

I recently tried to do front squat and i could do it comfortably with a very good form and my heels on the ground.

so would it affect me if i substitute back squats for front squat and stiff leg dead-lift with Romanians? should I add any accessory ?

and what kind of exercise can I do to address my problems of flexibility and mobility if I have to?
Thanks

[nightanole]

I have started the routine couple of weeks ago "the auto regulated version" and i have 2 issues.

1. I can't do stiff-leg dead-lift, instead I do Romanian dead-lift. (I think its a flexibility/mobility issue as i struggle to touch my toes with straight legs even without weights)

2. I lean forward in high bar back squat and my heals get off the ground. when i come up i drive through the balls of my feet and feel that i am doing good mornings. i have tried to elevate my heels by plates and use wider stance with toes pointing out. it improved a little but the problem is still there. I also feel tension and slight pain in from of my hip (groin area) after the squats.

I recently tried to do front squat and i could do it comfortably with a very good form and my heels on the ground.

so would it affect me if i substitute back squats for front squat and stiff leg dead-lift with Romanians? should I add any accessory ?

and what kind of exercise can I do to address my problems of flexibility and mobility if I have to?
Thanks

You kinda answered your own question. The SLDL improves the form of the high bar squat. Odds are you cant get past your knees in the SLDL(like alot of people) Which means you cant properly load your quads in the high bar squat, so it turns into a good morning and the weight shifts forward when coming out of the hole.

Im going to tell you what i tell everyone, run the program as is for at least 2 cycles before altering it. Let the program do its job.

If you want to try "something" that would be the high bar box squat. One thing that is not mentioned in the video, is that while sitting on the box, the shin needs to be perpendicular to the floor in all directions. If you knees travel forward, you are doing a half arsed box squat. If your knees bend in, you will get knee pain in about 4-6 sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP2b1KnLIUw

[Rifffff]

This cycle has a duration of 5 weeks. How many cycles do I have to run to get a good result? Is one cycle enough and after that I have to exercise an another workout plan?

[nightanole]

This cycle has a duration of 5 weeks. How many cycles do I have to run to get a good result? Is one cycle enough and after that I have to exercise an another workout plan?

Most get 5-7 cycles in before the programs progression gets too fast. After than you switch from the typical beginner routines (6-12 months) to an intermediate routine you can run for about 3 years. You do not switch from; allpro or SS or SL or F5, to; allpro or SS or SL or F5. By the time one gets inefficient, they all will be inefficient.

The amount of muscle gains goes down exponentially as you progress. You might wake up from the couch, and be able to put 10% on the bar per week, or even per workout. 4 weeks after that 20% per month might be optimistic. 2 months after that 10% per cycle might be optimistic. 2-3 months after that its 5-7.5% per cycle. By this time you are at the 1 year mark. From year 1 to year 2, you might add 200lbs to your power lifting total. From year 2 to year 5, you might (and its a big might, based on how much volume you can recover from) add another 200lbs to your total. So now you are at year 5, and might have a 1200lb total if you are around 180lbs. And thats about it, you might get to 185lbs before death, at the same body fat.

[PISSINCODEINE]

In all pros original post he said it is okay to switch with the reps if you wanted to. So I was going to do the following routine. please tell me what you think.

For bench, BOR, squats, OHP, SLDL, i was gonna do between 4-8 reps instead of 8-12.
For barbell curls i was going to do 8-12 reps
For Calf raises 16-20 reps

[nightanole]

In all pros original post he said it is okay to switch with the reps if you wanted to. So I was going to do the following routine. please tell me what you think.

For bench, BOR, squats, OHP, SLDL, i was gonna do between 4-8 reps instead of 8-12.
For barbell curls i was going to do 8-12 reps
For Calf raises 16-20 reps

"Novice" is converting up to the first 3 lifts to 3 sets of 4-8 reps, so "test day" is still 24 reps total.

I would be very careful about adjusting OHP, as we had to drop warmups for that lift, just to keep people from stalling from the 2x12 pattern.

[PISSINCODEINE]

Ok so ill change it to 3 work sets instead of two on the squats, BOR, bench, SLDL and keep the ohp in the 8-12 range with 2 work sets.
Is that what youre saying?
I found the 12 rep scheme on the squats to be too mentally taxing and couldnt see myself sticking to it.

[nightanole]

Ok so ill change it to 3 work sets instead of two on the squats, BOR, bench, SLDL and keep the ohp in the 8-12 range with 2 work sets.
Is that what youre saying?
I found the 12 rep scheme on the squats to be too mentally taxing and couldnt see myself sticking to it.

Around body weight for the squat, and 3/4 body weight for the bench, i switched to the 4-8 rep pattern, too.

[ahmedhappy312]

Hello Nightanole,

I am a beginner that have started lifting since almost 9 months now, I am on my 4th routine now
Day1:

1. Dumbbell Squat 3*10
2. Dumbbell Stiff Legged Deadlift 3*10
3. Bent Over Dumbbell Row 3*10
4. Dumbbell Bench Press 3*10
5. Lateral Raises 2*8
6. Standing Dumbbell Curl 2*8
7. Lying Dumbbell Extension 2*8
8. Sit Ups 3 Sets

Day 2:
1. Dumbbell Lunge 3*10
2. Wide Grip Pull UP (Negative) 3*10
3. Dumbbell Arnold Press 3*10
4. Push ups 3*10
5. Dumbbell Flys 2*8
6. Hammer Curl 2*8
7. Seated Dumbbell Extension 2*8
8. Leg Raises 3 Sets

Day 3:

1. Dumbbell Step Up 3*10
2. Dumbbell Single-Legged Deadlift 3*10
3. One Arm Dumbbell Row 3*10
4. Reverse Grip Dumbbell Press 3*10
5. Dumbbell Rear Delt Fly 2*8
6. Zottman Curl 2*8
7. Close Grip Dumbbell Press 2*8
8. Russian Twists 3 Sets

i am throwing push up (Elevated and normal) with ab exercises each day which makes them 9 exercises per day, is that too much??

the problem is I am not seeing significant results in terms of upper body but for lower body my legs are getting stronger, I am only hitting this at home as I can't go to gym.

Now I am very confused and don't know where to go from where I stand, should I follow a new routine like Allpro or should I tweak my current routine to include heavier weights/low reps sets ?

Another issue is that my routine takes around 2 hours to complete and I don't think that's is correct, what do you think?

I am stuck and need help to overcome my frustration.

Thanks

[nightanole]

Hello Nightanole,

I am a beginner that have started lifting since almost 9 months now, I am on my 4th routine now
Day1:

1. Dumbbell Squat 3*10
2. Dumbbell Stiff Legged Deadlift 3*10
3. Bent Over Dumbbell Row 3*10
4. Dumbbell Bench Press 3*10
5. Lateral Raises 2*8
6. Standing Dumbbell Curl 2*8
7. Lying Dumbbell Extension 2*8
8. Sit Ups 3 Sets

Day 2:
1. Dumbbell Lunge 3*10
2. Wide Grip Pull UP (Negative) 3*10
3. Dumbbell Arnold Press 3*10
4. Push ups 3*10
5. Dumbbell Flys 2*8
6. Hammer Curl 2*8
7. Seated Dumbbell Extension 2*8
8. Leg Raises 3 Sets

Day 3:

1. Dumbbell Step Up 3*10
2. Dumbbell Single-Legged Deadlift 3*10
3. One Arm Dumbbell Row 3*10
4. Reverse Grip Dumbbell Press 3*10
5. Dumbbell Rear Delt Fly 2*8
6. Zottman Curl 2*8
7. Close Grip Dumbbell Press 2*8
8. Russian Twists 3 Sets

i am throwing push up (Elevated and normal) with ab exercises each day which makes them 9 exercises per day, is that too much??

the problem is I am not seeing significant results in terms of upper body but for lower body my legs are getting stronger, I am only hitting this at home as I can't go to gym.

Now I am very confused and don't know where to go from where I stand, should I follow a new routine like Allpro or should I tweak my current routine to include heavier weights/low reps sets ?

Another issue is that my routine takes around 2 hours to complete and I don't think that's is correct, what do you think?

I am stuck and need help to overcome my frustration.

Thanks

You need to get in at least 10 quality reps using 60-75% of your 1rm, and figure out a pattern you like so you can add a little more volume each week.

Allpro we start out at 60-65% of your 1rm, and increase the volume via reps, 50% over 5 weeks. The last half of the first set, and 2/3 of the second set, on heavy day, are those "quality" reps.

Other popular patterns are:
Starting Strength= 3 sets of 5 reps, you have to increase the rest time as the sets go on, as you only should miss reps on the first set, that 3rd set might have a 10min rest. You should be failing on the first set every 6-8 weeks. You add 5lbs every time you do the lift.
Greyskull LP= 2 sets of 5 reps with a RPE of 7 (something you could easily do 2 sets of 8 with), and a final AMRAP. The AMRAP set starts off with 7-9 reps if you picked the right weight. You add 2.5lbs each time you do the lift. You should be getting 4 reps on the AMRAP set every 90 days or so.

The point is, hit the muscle at least 2x a week, get in enough volume (1000-1500% of your 1rm, so if your 1rm is 100lbs, you need to lift 1000-1500lbs per week between all the reps/sets) and get in those 10 quality reps at least once a week.

Your accessories are only for improving your big compounds, you shouldnt need 10 accessories to bring up 3-4 compounds, if you programmed your compounds correct, and picked the right accessories to bring up your weak links.

As i have said before, do not make a well rounded program with equal volume for your entire body. You need to figure out how "your" body responses, and make the program well rounded for "you". No point in having 3 tricep accessories if you are not chest dominant and have a shoulder weakness, for example.

[ahmedhappy312]

Much thanks for the advice and I sense from what you are saying that this routine does have a lot of flaws in terms of accessories and I don't need that much.

Also I noticed that I was doing much better on my 3rd routine which was full body but with less emphasis on accessories and I dropped it after 8 weeks although I didn't think I was in plateau but that I read online

I get all my info from forum and popular websites and I don't know my 1RM for any exercise and I don't have access to gym to test that, I only train at home with only dumbbells

I think I need to focus more on compound exercises and less on isolation what do you think?

Also should I get a barbell as well?

Another question if I just dropped my current routine and started Allpro regardless that I don't know which weight to start with, there is no harm of missing other compounds like lunge, step up , wide grip and one arm rows?

[nightanole]

Much thanks for the advice and I sense from what you are saying that this routine does have a lot of flaws in terms of accessories and I don't need that much.

Also I noticed that I was doing much better on my 3rd routine which was full body but with less emphasis on accessories and I dropped it after 8 weeks although I didn't think I was in plateau but that I read online

I get all my info from forum and popular websites and I don't know my 1RM for any exercise and I don't have access to gym to test that, I only train at home with only dumbbells

I think I need to focus more on compound exercises and less on isolation what do you think?

Also should I get a barbell as well?

Another question if I just dropped my current routine and started Allpro regardless that I don't know which weight to start with, there is no harm of missing other compounds like lunge, step up , wide grip and one arm rows?

Most of your routine should be compounds, because you cant progress on isolation movements. Isolations movements can only increase working weight if the compound increases. Use isolation movements just to bring up weak points, or individual muscles that are not responding to the compounds.

I would get a bar bell at some point. It will be very hard to do any squat with 200lbs of dumb bells.

You can run allpro till around the time you can bench press 10 reps of body weight, and squat 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x body weight.

After you pass 2 test days on allpro, you can add the 1 arm row, or the lunge, as you need it, and remove them once they did their job of improving the allpro lift.

[Rifffff]

Most get 5-7 cycles in before the programs progression gets too fast. After than you switch from the typical beginner routines (6-12 months) to an intermediate routine you can run for about 3 years. You do not switch from; allpro or SS or SL or F5, to; allpro or SS or SL or F5. By the time one gets inefficient, they all will be inefficient.

The amount of muscle gains goes down exponentially as you progress. You might wake up from the couch, and be able to put 10% on the bar per week, or even per workout. 4 weeks after that 20% per month might be optimistic. 2 months after that 10% per cycle might be optimistic. 2-3 months after that its 5-7.5% per cycle. By this time you are at the 1 year mark. From year 1 to year 2, you might add 200lbs to your power lifting total. From year 2 to year 5, you might (and its a big might, based on how much volume you can recover from) add another 200lbs to your total. So now you are at year 5, and might have a 1200lb total if you are around 180lbs. And thats about it, you might get to 185lbs before death, at the same body fat.

Ok, thank you. What if I consider to get after 3 cycles an another workout plan with for example 4 days of training p/week? Can I do that? It's only because I am very busy that I will train just three days per week. After a while I can go 4 days per week to the gym. Can you please advice me?

I have also an another question. I can't squat. I have tried to learn it, but my mobility isn't that good. Can I use the leg extensions and leg curls instead of the squat?

[nightanole]

Ok, thank you. What if I consider to get after 3 cycles an another workout plan with for example 4 days of training p/week? Can I do that? It's only because I am very busy that I will train just three days per week. After a while I can go 4 days per week to the gym. Can you please advice me?

I have also an another question. I can't squat. I have tried to learn it, but my mobility isn't that good. Can I use the leg extensions and leg curls instead of the squat?

The 4 day a week upper/lower or push/pull programs have about 50% more volume than allpro, and have you doing the same lift either once or twice a week. I would advise to pick the ones that are AB rest AB, as they would have you practicing the lift 2x a week.

If you cant squat, can you goblet squat? If you cant goblet squat, can you traditional deadift and hack squat(deadlift behind the legs)? Else you could also hexbar/trapbar deadlift. A last resort would be a traditional or stiff legged deadlift, in combination with a leg press.

[Rifffff]

The 4 day a week upper/lower or push/pull programs have about 50% more volume than allpro, and have you doing the same lift either once or twice a week. I would advise to pick the ones that are AB rest AB, as they would have you practicing the lift 2x a week.

If you cant squat, can you goblet squat? If you cant goblet squat, can you traditional deadift and hack squat(deadlift behind the legs)? Else you could also hexbar/trapbar deadlift. A last resort would be a traditional or stiff legged deadlift, in combination with a leg press.

Thanks for the info.

What if I cant deadlift also? Aren't the leg curl and extension a good one to replace those exercises?

[ahmedhappy312]

Most of your routine should be compounds, because you cant progress on isolation movements. Isolations movements can only increase working weight if the compound increases. Use isolation movements just to bring up weak points, or individual muscles that are not responding to the compounds.

I would get a bar bell at some point. It will be very hard to do any squat with 200lbs of dumb bells.

You can run allpro till around the time you can bench press 10 reps of body weight, and squat 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x body weight.

After you pass 2 test days on allpro, you can add the 1 arm row, or the lunge, as you need it, and remove them once they did their job of improving the allpro lift.

Thanks bro I needed a good advice.

I think I will stick with my routine for a couple of weeks removing unnecessary isolation exercises and focusing mainly on compounds and then start fresh Allpro.

[ahmedhappy312]

I have another question as I am new to barbell what is the recommended bar length for doing all exercises in Allpro??

[nightanole]

Thanks for the info.

What if I cant deadlift also? Aren't the leg curl and extension a good one to replace those exercises?

Those 2 exercises will destroy your knees in a few years. They load the knee with a completely unnatural torque. At best you can leg press, but then you get zero lower back workout.

[VOLDEMORT0099]

My Squat and Bench press is 67 lbs. So for the Medium day. I have to do 60 lbs. Problem is the gym has 2.5 and 5 kg plates. So the nearest i can go is 56 lbs. For the light day, i have to do 54.
How do i do the lifts, do i round to the nearest number?

[nightanole]

I have another question as I am new to barbell what is the recommended bar length for doing all exercises in Allpro??

There isnt one. The standard power lifting bar has rings at 32", and normally a knurl in the center so it doesnt move around on your back. That is the most recommended bar.

The top "starter" bar is a CAP OB-86B, it runs about $130
The top "intermediate" bar is the rogue matt chan bar, it runs about $300, and is the top rated ohio bar, but with a center knurl.
Another good bar that no lifter would turn their nose up at, is Buddy Capps Texas Power Bar (not to be confused with the Chinese CAP brand) which is also $300.

I have an "Excalibur" bar, but i got it loaded up with options when it first got introduced, for $250 shipped(at the time that was $100 cheaper than the ohio bar or the texas bar). It then went to $400 plus shipping, and they discontinued it a few years later.

[VOLDEMORT0099]

I've started the All Pro program this week. New to the gym, be kind
My Squat and Bench press is 67 lbs. So for the Medium day. I have to do 60 lbs. Problem is the gym has 2.5 and 5 kg plates. So the nearest i can go is 56 lbs. For the light day, i have to do 54.
How do i do the lifts, or do i round to the nearest number?

[nightanole]

My Squat and Bench press is 67 lbs. So for the Medium day. I have to do 60 lbs. Problem is the gym has 2.5 and 5 kg plates. So the nearest i can go is 56 lbs. For the light day, i have to do 54.
How do i do the lifts, do i round to the nearest number?

You will have to make about 5kg of chain weights, just go to the hardware store and have them cut 10 pieces of chain that weight .5kg each, then just make hoops out of them using zip ties, or cheap carabiners.

Else you will have to make do with what you got, but medium day needs to be lighter than heavy day, and light day needs to be lighter than medium day. So just make sure the bar speed increases throughout the week, and rest time gets shorter throughout the week.

[Eugene2208]

This is a fatigue based training style, you are not allowed to recover. The joke is, if you can do 3 heavies a week, you are not going heavy enough. Once you are in the groove, medium day should require the most effort.

As for the "intermediate routines", they are 4 day a week upper/lower or push/pull routines.

So upper/lower could just be allpro re arranged so monday/thurs is squat/SLDL/calfs, and tues/friday would be row/bench/curl/OHP. Once you include the accessories, the sessions would take an hour.

Here is theviking1992's upper/lower

The Upper/Lower Split

Upper 1/Lower 1/Off/Upper 2/Lower 2/Off/Off and repeat...

Upper Day 1
Bench Press - 4 sets - 32 reps
Barbell Row - 4 sets - 32 reps
Military Press - 3 sets - 25 reps
Wide-grip Pulldowns or Pullups - 3 sets - 30 reps
Incline DB Press - 3 sets - 30 reps
One-arm Cable or DB Rows - 3 sets - 30 reps
Straight-arm Pulldowns/Facepulls - 3 supersets - 30 reps each

Lower Day 1
Back Squat - 4 sets - 32 reps
Deadlift - 2 sets - 12 reps
or
Romanian DL - 3 sets - 30 reps
Hack Squat - 3 sets - 30 reps
Lying Leg Curls - 3 sets - 30 reps
Single-leg Leg Press - 3 sets - 35 reps
Abs/Calves Superset - 3 sets each - 40 reps each

Upper Day 2
Bench Press - 4 sets - 32 reps
Barbell Row - 4 sets - 32 reps
Military Press - 3 sets - 25 reps
Wide-grip Pulldowns or Pullups - 3 sets - 30 reps
Lateral Raises/Barbell Shrugs - 3 supersets - 30 reps each
Barbell Curl/Skullcrushers - 3 supersets - 30 reps each
Overhead Cable Extensions/Cable Hammer Curls - 3 supersets - 35 reps each

Lower Day 2
Back Squat - 4 sets - 32 reps
Romanian DL - 3 sets - 30 reps
Leg Press - 3 sets - 30 reps
Leg Extensions/Leg Curls - 3 supersets - 35 reps each
Abs/Calves Superset - 3 sets each - 40 reps each

Thanks a lot!

[blackfieldgates]

If I try to be as wide in grip as the bench press for my bent over row my hands inevitably start sliding closer in. Is that a grip issue or is it just an indication I am going too wide? Also it seems like the more my main lifts go into the 30kg territory the less energy I have left for the barbell curl at the end. As I understand it, isolation exercises barely progress as it is, but if I end up getting to the point of just staying around 19kg and never moving should i just do the curls on another day or just keep at it? Or get rid of it and make, I dunno, the BOR underhanded instead?

[VOLDEMORT0099]

You will have to make about 5kg of chain weights, just go to the hardware store and have them cut 10 pieces of chain that weight .5kg each, then just make hoops out of them using zip ties, or cheap carabiners.

Else you will have to make do with what you got, but medium day needs to be lighter than heavy day, and light day needs to be lighter than medium day. So just make sure the bar speed increases throughout the week, and rest time gets shorter throughout the week.

i dont think the hardware store option would be possible. Can you please suggest what my weights should be on the Medium and Light days. Also, what does bar speed mean here?

[PISSINCODEINE]

why does medium day become the hardest day?

[Marcus069]

I would much rather do pullups over curls for this program. I read in one of your earlier posts about doing 10 sets of 3. Can I incorporate that into this beginners program? If so, how do I split it up between the heavy, medium and light days? Do I just try and progress each workout until I reach the 10 sets.

[nightanole]

If I try to be as wide in grip as the bench press for my bent over row my hands inevitably start sliding closer in. Is that a grip issue or is it just an indication I am going too wide? Also it seems like the more my main lifts go into the 30kg territory the less energy I have left for the barbell curl at the end. As I understand it, isolation exercises barely progress as it is, but if I end up getting to the point of just staying around 19kg and never moving should i just do the curls on another day or just keep at it? Or get rid of it and make, I dunno, the BOR underhanded instead?

Maybe you are going too wide on the bench? Again, a neutral grip is pinkies on the 32" rings (are you sure your bar doesnt have 36" olympic rings instead of 32" power lifting rings?). The grip should be between bench grip and OHP grip. It should not be as narrow as a chinup.

As for your curl question, biceps will grow as volume increases, so if you stall at the curl, but progress at the row, volume is increasing.

[nightanole]

i dont think the hardware store option would be possible. Can you please suggest what my weights should be on the Medium and Light days. Also, what does bar speed mean here?

You have to work with what you got, so that would be moving up and down 5kg. So medium day is going to be 5kg lighter than heavy day, and light day is going to be 10kg lighter than heavy day.

Bar speed refers to how fast you can do the rep. a 100kg rep is going to be slower than a 50kg rep. If light days reps are just as slow as heavy days, you are not putting in as much effort.

And since you have to go down in weight so much for medium/light day, you should also reduce rest time on those 2 days. Medium day might only be 30-45 seconds of rest, and light day only 15-20 seconds. These rest times are not fixed, so you can change them any time you like, as long as you dont go above 90 seconds.

[nightanole]

why does medium day become the hardest day?

Because it takes at least 72 hours to recover from heavy day.