C*19 Death Rate WAY Lower Than Media Claimed

[J.L.C.]

I strongly suspect those trends, the long covid sides, they likely follow the same trajectory as the death rate. My guess, because no study I am aware of on this one, but elderly/sickies are the ones most at risk and younger healthy people recover just fine.

Empirically, harder call for me to make. I've known many people who have had covid and all but two had a very easy time with it. Of the two who did not, one was 85 and made a full recovery, the other was my younger brother in law, who took it pretty badly the first time and took about 1-1/2 months to get back to things. No noticeable lingering long covid in either case and everyone else who had it made full recoveries and didn't struggle with it while having it, either.

So, I'd like to see some large studies here but just from personal observation, I know nobody who has had long-term health implications.

Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19

"We show that, beyond the first 30 d after infection, individuals with COVID-19 are at increased risk of incident cardiovascular disease spanning several categories, including cerebrovascular disorders, dysrhythmias, ischemic and non-ischemic heart disease, pericarditis, myocarditis, heart failure and thromboembolic disease. These risks and burdens were evident even among individuals who were not hospitalized during the acute phase of the infection and increased in a graded fashion according to the care setting during the acute phase (non-hospitalized, hospitalized and admitted to intensive care). Our results provide evidence that the risk and 1-year burden of cardiovascular disease in survivors of acute COVID-19 are substantial. "


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01689-3

[JUSA]

Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01689-3

Love that you always have some hard data to bring to the table, thanks again.

I'm looking over it now. Looks like you see tiny increased chances with a myriad of things, while they do break it down by sub-groups in some ways -- not by age, which would interest me the most. However, I do think you *can* kind of extrapolate it. They do break it down by 1) Non-Hospitalized, 2) Hospitalized and 3) ICU, which I know is a cheat but you can kind of take from that 1 is people who are slightly at risk, 2 is those more at risk and 3 are those most at risk.



A slight jump to conclusions, but those green bars are pretty small and that group is likely the one that most concerns me (ie. people more healthy).

[J.L.C.]

Love that you always have some hard data to bring to the table, thanks again.

I'm looking over it now. Looks like you see tiny increased chances with a myriad of things, while they do break it down by sub-groups in some ways -- not by age, which would interest me the most. However, I do think you *can* kind of extrapolate it. They do break it down by 1) Non-Hospitalized, 2) Hospitalized and 3) ICU, which I know is a cheat but you can kind of take from that 1 is people who are slightly at risk, 2 is those more at risk and 3 are those most at risk.



A slight jump to conclusions, but those green bars are pretty small and that group is likely the one that most concerns me (ie. people more healthy).

That study is also from a sample of veterans, so it's not exactly generalizable.

This one covers a broader range and included matching.

"The 12-month risk of incidental cardiovascular diseases is substantially higher in the COVID-19 survivors than the non-COVID-19 controls. Clinicians and patients with a history of COVID-19 should pay attention to their cardiovascular health in long term."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/e...349-2/fulltext

This is just to support my opinion that the idea of "if you don't die, you're fine" might be shortsighted.

[JUSA]

This is just to support my opinion that the idea of "if you don't die, you're fine" might be shortsighted.

No, and we've talked about this (but I can't expect you to recall every side-convo you have with everyone). I often use death rates as the marker, simply because it's more knowable, less ambigous and there was more hard data there. I always assumed that if X people had died there were some other group, greater than X, who suffered in some way but did not die.

[J.L.C.]

No, and we've talked about this (but I can't expect you to recall every side-convo you have with everyone). I often use death rates as the marker, simply because it's more knowable, less ambigous and there was more hard data there. I always assumed that if X people had died there were some other group, greater than X, who suffered in some way but did not die.

Oh yeah, I recall your stance.

The way I put that in a response quoting you was poor form and looks like I was directing the statement towards you

My intention was to state my opinion and why I take that position - as a separate comment.

That's my bad, sorry!

[frankdtank20]

I think it's worth considering health impacts beyond death.

The same consideration needs attention to flu, as similar long term health issues arise from it as well. I know it's anecdotal but a close family friend who got triple vaxxed still caught Covid and has been repeatedly sick for many months. I gave her 5 days of multiple compounds (long list) and her breathing got better and cough finally went away. She probably would have gotten better a lot sooner if she lost at least 30 pounds. After a few weeks of feeling good she caught flu and now she wants me to give her the same stuff again.

[J.L.C.]

The same consideration needs attention to flu, as similar long term health issues arise from it as well. I know it's anecdotal but a close family friend who got triple vaxxed still caught Covid and has been repeatedly sick for many months. I gave her 5 days of multiple compounds (long list) and her breathing got better and cough finally went away. She probably would have gotten better a lot sooner if she lost at least 30 pounds. After a few weeks of feeling good she caught flu and now she wants me to give her the same stuff again.

A lot of viruses can and do come back later in different forms to cause health complications and other diseases. It's why I feel "letting it rip" is/was a shortsighted strategy.

[sfgiants13]

Libs will be boosting their pets next…

You joke about this but I read up on some social media sites for Covid lulz and some dude was actually suggesting vaccinating all deer when commenting on an article about how deer can carry Covid. He was completely serious.

[Dave22reborn]

I strongly suspect those trends, the long covid sides, they likely follow the same trajectory as the death rate. My guess, because no study I am aware of on this one, but elderly/sickies are the ones most at risk and younger healthy people recover just fine.

Empirically, harder call for me to make. I've known many people who have had covid and all but two had a very easy time with it. Of the two who did not, one was 85 and made a full recovery, the other was my younger brother in law, who took it pretty badly the first time and took about 1-1/2 months to get back to things. No noticeable lingering long covid in either case and everyone else who had it made full recoveries and didn't struggle with it while having it, either.

So, I'd like to see some large studies here but just from personal observation, I know nobody who has had long-term health implications.

Not dogging on you, but on an individual case: Who cares?

IMO, pretty much anyone who is younger and healthy has nothing to be concerned about. To me that is the issue: Who is dying, who is getting sick, who is having a hard time? More and more, that answer is very obvious, and it's people like NYPat or old men like z4v4 whose father fought in the Civil War with a fully semi-automatic machine rifle, but younger people who take care of themselves aren't on the chopping block.

Thats what I mean, not a single expert has recommended health and fitness to combat the Rona.

My brother for example is obese, he got some kind of cold virus last summer and he was ****ed up former 2-3 weeks. He gave it to me, and I got over it in 3 days.

Now if you're unhealthy, elderly, frail, obese, have numerous pre-exisiting conditions, etc, something like the Rona pr the flu is gonna **** you up.

Hell Keanu had the flu during the famous club shootout in the first John Wick movie.

That Ortega chick who played Wednesday Adam's had the Rona during her dance scene.

[Dave22reborn]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2

Review of long covid problems.

Wincel, for people like you, the Rona is a death sentence.

[Dave22reborn]

Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19

"We show that, beyond the first 30 d after infection, individuals with COVID-19 are at increased risk of incident cardiovascular disease spanning several categories, including cerebrovascular disorders, dysrhythmias, ischemic and non-ischemic heart disease, pericarditis, myocarditis, heart failure and thromboembolic disease. These risks and burdens were evident even among individuals who were not hospitalized during the acute phase of the infection and increased in a graded fashion according to the care setting during the acute phase (non-hospitalized, hospitalized and admitted to intensive care). Our results provide evidence that the risk and 1-year burden of cardiovascular disease in survivors of acute COVID-19 are substantial. "


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01689-3

So billions of people who got the Rona are now ****ed up?

[JUSA]

So billions of people who got the Rona are now ****ed up?

We saw the numbers. Some of them, absolutely. Kind of hard to say for sure, those lingering effects (and there was plenty listed, most of them what you would guess), the rates skyrocketed for people who had to go to the ICU, very high for those who ended up hospitalized but not ICU and more of a little blip on the entirety of those who did not end up hospitalized.

I speculated that the same group(s) who needed to be careful about dying from covid are almost assuredly the ones driving these lingering long-term effects, which it's hard to say with absolute certainty but does seem the case.

This isn't a vaccine thread, but my issue with it, it's not just hammering elderly/sickies with it's currently known rare side effects. Perfectly healthy people seem to be getting fuked by it along with the old/sick. I don't think anyone has even looked at people under 12 getting vaccinated and I suspect/fear for that group the vaccine is way worse than getting the virus itself.

[J.L.C.]

So billions of people who got the Rona are now ****ed up?

All? No and I don't think anyone suggested that.

Some? It sure looks like it based on the available evidence.

[Dave22reborn]

All? No and I don't think anyone suggested that.

Some? It sure looks like it based on the available evidence.

So now it's "some?" And that's enough to hammer us with fear mongering?

[J.L.C.]

So now it's "some?" And that's enough to hammer us with fear mongering?

It's always been some. That's how proportions, percentages, probabilities, and risks work at a population level.

Some of billions is still a lot of people.

[frankdtank20]

A lot of viruses can and do come back later in different forms to cause health complications and other diseases. It's why I feel "letting it rip" is/was a shortsighted strategy.

Hence things like the Barrington Declaration. Take extra upon extra steps to protect the old, let younger healthier people get it. Instead we got an ineffective one-size fits all plan for everyone with little to no protection masks in nursing homes and hospitals, keeping them sequestered in their rooms instead of getting them outside for sunlight (Vitamin D). During the Spanish Flu pandemic they noticed patients who were left outside every day had a much better survival rate and lesser symptoms. A full century later and simple strategies like that were ignored. Not to mention Covid transmission outside was a lie that went on for awhile. The "let it rip" in younger populations would have been fine.

That's the direction Sweden leaned toward and they faired better than the UK's long lockdowns or France's repeated harsh lockdowns and 6pm curfews.

[J.L.C.]

Hence things like the Barrington Declaration. Take extra upon extra steps to protect the old, let younger healthier people get it. Instead we got an ineffective one-size fits all plan for everyone with little to no protection masks in nursing homes and hospitals, keeping them sequestered in their rooms instead of getting them outside for sunlight (Vitamin D). During the Spanish Flu pandemic they noticed patients who were left outside every day had a much better survival rate and lesser symptoms. A full century later and simple strategies like that were ignored. Not to mention Covid transmission outside was a lie that went on for awhile. The "let it rip" in younger populations would have been fine.

That's the direction Sweden leaned toward and they faired better than the UK's long lockdowns or France's repeated harsh lockdowns and 6pm curfews.

The GBD failed to outline how the vulnerable would be protected. Given what we're now seeing, I'm not convinced letting young people get it, repeatedly, is a winning strategy. I guess time will tell.

[pondus_levo]

Covid killed over 13 million people.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05522-2

It's talking about EXCESS deaths. 5 million covid deaths, 7 million non-covid deaths.

I wonder what those 7 million non-covid deaths are?

All I can say, is deaths spiked every time a booster was released.

[z4v4]

Thats what I mean, not a single expert has recommended health and fitness to combat the Rona.

Plenty have. Open your eyes, son.

My brother for example is obese

Your brother, wink wink, is obese, son.

[frankdtank20]

It's talking about EXCESS deaths. 5 million covid deaths, 7 million non-covid deaths.

I wonder what those 7 million non-covid deaths are?

All I can say, is deaths spiked every time a booster was released.

People have the gall to say suicides went down during the pandemic. Overdose deaths went through the roof immediately, with very few labeled suicide. Now under the umbrella of "deaths of despair." The retort is ODs were increasing pre pandemic. When there's a 15% increase over a few years, then a sudden 150% spike let's not pretend the timing was coincidental. Yearly homicides and car accident deaths immediately went up 20% in the first year of the pandemic and have stayed up in the US. After 28 continuous years of improvement in cancer thanks to better treatments it's believed cancer deaths would go up a lot as a result of lockdowns, by hundreds of thousands. We'll only know for sure a few years from now.

Take your pick of excess deaths. The Covid deaths are way overreported in the first world countries, but way underreported in India and China. So if there are 5 million Covid deaths in reality probably half or more are from the unreported ones in India and China.

[adamsteve14]

Plenty have. Open your eyes, son.



Your brother, wink wink, is obese, son.

People were literally banned from multiple platforms for having the audacity to point out that fitness, a healthy weight and adequate sun exposure for vit D would help against covid.

Literally the same things that help prevent or mitigate the worst outcomes of every pathogenic illness was treated like heresy.

[LizzieTish]

If you don't believe that a 6 month old should get the jab, than you're a backwards anti-vaxxer, and a science denier.

Don't forget to add "ANTI-SEMITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Dave22reborn]

The GBD failed to outline how the vulnerable would be protected. Given what we're now seeing, I'm not convinced letting young people get it, repeatedly, is a winning strategy. I guess time will tell.

So keep the young at home, and weaken their immune system?

[JUSA]

So keep the young at home, and weaken their immune system?

What's the latest data on getting it more often? JLC mentioned the young would be getting it 'repeatedly'. I only know from personal experience, I have gotten it twice now, but years between them. And this second time it was the watered-down current strain that nobody seems too worked up about. With the OG strain, I was exposed to it multiple times after having it once, did not get re-get it.

Anyhoo, I do think that would have been a way better course.

- Vulnerable stay quarantined, rest of us do not, hospitals would be fine (as those going skew heavily towards being elderly/sickly)
- Virus spreads around the healthy population, eventually you have either herd immunity or a weak mutated strain

While this was more or less what I was thinking then, in hindsight, surely it's better than:

- Lock down, ruin economy, ruin children's education for a year, ruin people's mental and physical health
- Live in constant fear wearing double masks
- Do not actually stop the spread even with all this

[J.L.C.]

What's the latest data on getting it more often? JLC mentioned the young would be getting it 'repeatedly'. I only know from personal experience, I have gotten it twice now, but years between them. And this second time it was the watered-down current strain that nobody seems too worked up about. With the OG strain, I was exposed to it multiple times after having it once, did not get re-get it.

Anyhoo, I do think that would have been a way better course.

- Vulnerable stay quarantined, rest of us do not, hospitals would be fine (as those going skew heavily towards being elderly/sickly)
- Virus spreads around the healthy population, eventually you have either herd immunity or a weak mutated strain

While this was more or less what I was thinking then, in hindsight, surely it's better than:

- Lock down, ruin economy, ruin children's education for a year, ruin people's mental and physical health
- Live in constant fear wearing double masks
- Do not actually stop the spread even with all this

There were a couple of issues with the GBD.

While I understand the concerns and aims outlined in the GBD, the authors weren't particularly clear, nor did they provide practical guidance, regarding how focused protection would manifest.

Many countries already take a focused protection approach to influenza where those who are at risk, or who will be in contact with those at risk, get influenza vaccines (including kids who see their grandparents).

The GBD authors also advocated herd immunity. Historically, vaccinations have played a fundamental role in achieving herd immunity.

Even with mass vaccination campaigns (in countries that could afford these vaccines), herd immunity was not achieved.

The GBD also ignored post-infection effects and seemed to adopt the "if you don't die, you're fine" rationale, which has now been shown to be untrue.

[Dave22reborn]

Interesting how some of us were right all along - and got called anti-science, anti-vaxxer, etc.

And were told we deserved to lose our jobs and live worse than a second class citizen......

I'll still never forget the sight of seeing security stationed at the food court and only those who had a vax card were allowed in.

[J.L.C.]

And were told we deserved to lose our jobs and live worse than a second class citizen......

I'll still never forget the sight of seeing security stationed at the food court and only those who had a vax card were allowed in.

Policies were a trainwreck. Zero argument from me on that point.

[nutsy54]

All I can say, is deaths spiked every time a booster was released.

You can say anything you want... But can you prove that claim? Especially since most "boosters" weren't released on a specific date, they were rolled out relative to prior vaccination date for each person. The bivalent vaccines were approved on a specific date last year (Aug 31st), but there's no corresponding spike as you claim, just LESS of the normal increase we see every Nov-Dec.

[z4v4]

I'll still never forget the sight of seeing security stationed at the food court and only those who had a vax card were allowed in.

That must have been a really tough time for you, son.

[J.L.C.]

What's the latest data on getting it more often? JLC mentioned the young would be getting it 'repeatedly'. I only know from personal experience, I have gotten it twice now, but years between them. And this second time it was the watered-down current strain that nobody seems too worked up about. With the OG strain, I was exposed to it multiple times after having it once, did not get re-get it.

My perspective is that governments and health officials figure they can handle most people getting covid a couple times a year. Us plebes will do as we do/can and see how it works out.