OP’s tour is over. Pre-diabitus

[kusok]

Story time:

OP always knew he sucks at eating carbs. As a kid OP never wanted candy or cake like other kids did, OP never wanted a banana or potatoes or oats, OP wanted steak! And only steak. (And more steak)

As a young adult OP experimented with various typical recommended bodybuilding diets (OP is 200 lbs, so 80 grams fat, 200 grams protein, the rest carbs), OP did not like. Fat intake seems way too low, OP never adjusted. OP increasingly noticed belly fat with age despite often having striated chest and being lean everywhere else. Carbs never made OP satisfied, only more hunger

Cholesterol and blood sugar were always bad, but recent blood test finally crossed over into pre-diabetic blood sugar reading. OP and doctor thought this is a good time for a low carb diet...

OP now several weeks in with no direct carb sources other than some berries and salad, no refeeds so far, didn’t feel the need to, OP feels very good, no keto flu (since OP now knows all the dietary tricks of Keto, earlier Keto experiment didn’t go well for OP...), sleeping like a baby, clear sinuses, no energy crashes, never yawning, strength and stamina in the gym went up significantly, OP’s libido improved (no pics)


Should OP do carb refeeds anyway? Perhaps to boost thyroid or refuel glycogen or remind the body so enzymes for starch etc. digestion don’t disappear?

[Mrpb]

That would be unfortunate. Just to get this straight: your doctor said you're pre diabetic based on 1 blood test? What value was measured?

As to your question about re feeding: we've been over this before... of course you shouldn't refeed. If you react badly to high carb loads the last thing you want to eat is high carb loads.

I've told you this a bunch of times too: CKD looks poor in existing research, better option is a small amount of carbs pre workout (TKD) if it makes you perform better.

[kusok]

That would be unfortunate. Just to get this straight: your doctor said you're pre diabetic based on 1 blood test? What value was measured?

As to your question about re feeding: we've been over this before... of course you shouldn't refeed. If you react badly to high carb loads the last thing you want to eat is high carb loads.

I've told you this a bunch of times too: CKD looks poor in existing research, better options is a small amount of carbs pre workout (TKD).

Thanks, yes, I will do a better glucose tolerance test with insulin response, but generally I long suspected that this is where I’m going. My declining energy, increasing bodyfat, reduced muscle, lowering libido, and funny digestion was making me aware that I should at the very least experiment with low carb eating properly for at least a few months and then retest blood and every hormone and see how I feel and look.

Other than low carb eating I’m not sure what else I could have tried to change, I was always a health and fitness “enthusiast”.

I thought that if one eats low carb then glycogen stores are low and insulin sensitivity improves and so one can have a nice carb refeed and not experience negative reactions to it.


One more interesting observation: strength went up in gym in low rep range (under 6 reps) and cardio improved, but 6-12 range actually got harder. I wonder if this has something to do with carb reduction.

[Mrpb]

Thanks, yes, I will do a better glucose tolerance test with insulin response, but generally I long suspected that this is where I’m going.

Yes you should get an oral glucose test before you conclude anything like "I'm prediabetic".

But regardless, you're always raving about low carb. Even in this thread. Simply go with low carb. I don't know why you're always wanting to eat carbs and refeed if low carb makes you feel so good.

[kusok]

Yes you should get an oral glucose test before you conclude anything like "I'm prediabetic".

But regardless, you're always raving about low carb. Even in this thread. Simply go with low carb. I don't know you're always wanting to eat carbs and refeed if low carb makes you feel so good.

I heard carbs make all relevant hormones more anabolic, and for that reason to do carb ups, this advice is given also by Lyle.

Thanks for all the advice.

[AdamWW]

You never responded to mrpb’s question: what was your reading?

[Mrpb]

And if it turns out you're really pre diabetic you should probably also ask your doc what he thinks of consuming >250 gram of protein per day. I've seen some research suggesting it's probably not a good idea for (pre) diabetics.

[boo99]

Thanks, yes, I will do a better glucose tolerance test with insulin response, but generally I long suspected that this is where I’m going. My declining energy, increasing bodyfat, reduced muscle, lowering libido, and funny digestion was making me aware that I should at the very least experiment with low carb eating properly for at least a few months and then retest blood and every hormone and see how I feel and look.

Other than low carb eating I’m not sure what else I could have tried to change, I was always a health and fitness “enthusiast”.

I thought that if one eats low carb then glycogen stores are low and insulin sensitivity improves and so one can have a nice carb refeed and not experience negative reactions to it.


One more interesting observation: strength went up in gym in low rep range (under 6 reps) and cardio improved, but 6-12 range actually got harder. I wonder if this has something to do with carb reduction.

Sorry to read this bro

I don't know your age, but just on a side note, from the bolded symptoms you describe, have your gotten your test/free test checked as well?

I had all those when mine was low but not saying this is your case here, just sharing

[kusok]

You never responded to mrpb’s question: what was your reading?

Oh, it’s that first number in pre-diabetic range, few months ago it was just one number below that, I’ll get a copy tomorrow so I can answer properly, but as I recall it’s some number like 5, 6, etc. and the higher the closer to diabetus.

[kusok]

Sorry to read this bro

I don't know your age, but just on a side note, from the bolded symptoms you describe, have your gotten your test/free test checked as well?

I had all those when mine was low but not saying this is your case here, just sharing

That was the first thing I asked to be tested, test, thyroid, vitamin levels etc. All apparently not only in range, but rather good. But of course I need to look more into it.

[kusok]

And if it turns out you're really pre diabetic you should probably also ask your doc what he thinks of consuming >250 gram of protein per day. I've seen some research suggesting it's probably not a good idea for (pre) diabetics.

Yes, I’m at around 200 grams daily now. salmon, salad With olive oil and MCT, some steak, so it’s hard to get more than 200 grams protein with all that fat taking up the calories.

[kusok]

You never responded to mrpb’s question: what was your reading?

I’ll get a copy tomorrow so I can answer properly, but as I recall it’s a range of numbers like 4,5,6 etc. and higher number means closer to diabetus, mine just barely crossed into that range Of pre-diabitus, few months ago it was just under, a year or so before that it was a bit lower than that etc. Basically it’s been rising over the years steadily.

[AdamWW]

I’ll get a copy tomorrow so I can answer properly, but as I recall it’s a range of numbers like 4,5,6 etc. and higher number means closer to diabetus, mine just barely crossed into that range Of pre-diabitus, few months ago it was just under, a year or so before that it was a bit lower than that etc. Basically it’s been rising over the years steadily.

Interesting. Your symptoms seem pretty extreme for someone just over a threshold like that..

[latverian41]

Story time:

OP always knew he sucks at eating carbs. As a kid OP never wanted candy or cake like other kids did, OP never wanted a banana or potatoes or oats, OP wanted steak! And only steak. (And more steak)

As a young adult OP experimented with various typical recommended bodybuilding diets (OP is 200 lbs, so 80 grams fat, 200 grams protein, the rest carbs), OP did not like. Fat intake seems way too low, OP never adjusted. OP increasingly noticed belly fat with age despite often having striated chest and being lean everywhere else. Carbs never made OP satisfied, only more hunger

Cholesterol and blood sugar were always bad, but recent blood test finally crossed over into pre-diabetic blood sugar reading. OP and doctor thought this is a good time for a low carb diet...

OP now several weeks in with no direct carb sources other than some berries and salad, no refeeds so far, didn’t feel the need to, OP feels very good, no keto flu (since OP now knows all the dietary tricks of Keto, earlier Keto experiment didn’t go well for OP...), sleeping like a baby, clear sinuses, no energy crashes, never yawning, strength and stamina in the gym went up significantly, OP’s libido improved (no pics)


Should OP do carb refeeds anyway? Perhaps to boost thyroid or refuel glycogen or remind the body so enzymes for starch etc. digestion don’t disappear?

Not sure I would heed the advice of the misc on this one bro considering it is so important to your health and your future.

Of course many doctors don’t know jack chit either about how to truly be healthy.

Maybe experiment around and keep checking your blood sugar and see what works best for your body

[AdamWW]

Not sure I would heed the advice of the misc on this one bro considering it is so important to your health and your future.

Of course many doctors don’t know jack chit either about how to truly be healthy.

Maybe experiment around and keep checking your blood sugar and see what works best for your body

I think you took a wrong turn.. this isn’t the misc...

[AdamWW]

Also kusok, do you know your fasting glucose ?

[AutistTrigger]

What was your A1C?

[Mrpb]

OP now several weeks in with no direct carb sources other than some berries and salad, no refeeds so far, didn’t feel the need to, OP feels very good, no keto flu (since OP now knows all the dietary tricks of Keto, earlier Keto experiment didn’t go well for OP...), sleeping like a baby, clear sinuses, no energy crashes, never yawning, strength and stamina in the gym went up significantly, OP’s libido improved (no pics)

Kusok, I looked back at previous threads to see what we've said before on this topic before. I couldn't find the thread I was looking for but I did notice this:

Speaking of libido, that’s the confusion for me on Keto, libido dies completely LOL, and of course I go flat in muscles. Then if I eat a bowl of pasta my friend down there wakes up and goes bro WTF happened? Was I out for a while? I don’t remember anything!

Go figure... Listen I’d rather walk around with less visible abs than be impotent...

Anecdotally THE worst thing about low carb for me personally is the dead libido ... and of course flatness of muscle. Then I carb up and boom, they swell up, but then stomach follows shortly if I don’t stop eating carbs. Idk...

First post from August, second from July this year. What caused the difference? Higher fat intake?

[kusok]

Kusok, I looked back at previous threads to see what we've said before on this topic before. I couldn't find the thread I was looking for but I did notice this:





First post from August, second from July this year. What caused the difference? Higher fat intake?

My first experiment with Keto/low carb was not fun, I went totally flat, bad breath, no sleep, and near absolute impotence...

Basically classic Keto flu symptoms. I felt better in some ways (digestion, no bloating etc.) but those massive issues obviously immediately made me reach for that oatmeal and banana.

This second time I did it properly, LOTS of electrolytes, doubled or tripled what I did in the past, much more water intake, MCT, magnesium before bed. Now not having any of those issues. First few days I actually just took a teaspoon of pink Himalayan salt and mixed it in water, just in case. I don’t do that anymore. Just a couple of electrolyte mixes with lots of potassium, and mag before bed. So far all perfect.

[kusok]

I think you took a wrong turn.. this isn’t the misc...

Haha, yes, people here are brutal, but Aragon legacy is strong in this section, posters are clearly educated compared to the rest of the forum.

[boo99]

Haha, yes, people here are brutal, but Aragon legacy is strong in this section, posters are clearly educated compared to the rest of the forum.

Word bro

Very grateful for our knowledgeable and educated posters here

[rtpmarine]

I’ll get a copy tomorrow so I can answer properly, but as I recall it’s a range of numbers like 4,5,6 etc. and higher number means closer to diabetus, mine just barely crossed into that range Of pre-diabitus, few months ago it was just under, a year or so before that it was a bit lower than that etc. Basically it’s been rising over the years steadily.

Sounds like A1C. I agree with others that you should get some glucose tests.

I hate to be an alarmist, but this sounds more like development of T1D than T2D. You might want to also test insulin secretion and glucose uptake to see if your pancreas B-cells are just crapping out early. It wouldn't make much of a difference in terms of what you do moving forward, but may give you peace of mind to know if this is more of a genetic thing vs. an environmental thing.

[AdamWW]

Sounds like A1C. I agree with others that you should get some glucose tests.

I hate to be an alarmist, but this sounds more like development of T1D than T2D. You might want to also test insulin secretion and glucose uptake to see if your pancreas B-cells are just crapping out early. It wouldn't make much of a difference in terms of what you do moving forward, but may give you peace of mind to know if this is more of a genetic thing vs. an environmental thing.

You can develop type one that late in life? Wasn’t aware...

[rtpmarine]

You can develop type one that late in life? Wasn’t aware...

Good point. I'm not sure of the diagnostic differences, but i think there is a distinction between T1D caused by autoimmunity (juvenile diabetes) and T1D caused by some other failure of insulin production. I'm suggesting that maybe OP is experiencing the latter, rather than insulin-resistance induced T2D.

OP, if you have a recent lipid test, it may be good to know what your Triglycerides / HDL ratio is. If it's high (like above 3) then you may be developing insulin resistance which can be reversed with carbohydrate control. If it's low (like less than 1) then you are probably not developing insulin resistance which would imply that your insulin production is just falling behind. I'm grossly oversimplifying the situation here, but do encourage you to read up on the TG/HDL ratio.

[kusok]

Triglyceride result 70 mg/dL (reference range 10-149)
Cholesterol 229 mg/dL (reference range 10-199)
HDL Cholesterol 49 (reference range >=40)
LDL Cholesterol (calculated) 166
Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio 4.7 (reference range 3.4-9.6)

Glucose 108 (reference range 70-99)

Testosterone 665.0 ng/dL (Flag reference range 249.0-836.0)

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone, Serum w/FT4 Reflex 2.12 ulu/ml (flag reference range 0.27-4.20)




I have literally ZERO idea what ANY of this means. All I was told is that cholesterol and glucose were a bit high.


I must add that the symptoms I was increasingly feeling over the last few years and months, are very mild, it’s not like I suddenly gained a lot of fat and became impotent and lost all my muscles, but there is a slight change for sure (early to mid 40s now age-wise)

[andy0w]

Story time:

OP always knew he sucks at eating carbs. As a kid OP never wanted candy or cake like other kids did, OP never wanted a banana or potatoes or oats, OP wanted steak! And only steak. (And more steak)

As a young adult OP experimented with various typical recommended bodybuilding diets (OP is 200 lbs, so 80 grams fat, 200 grams protein, the rest carbs), OP did not like. Fat intake seems way too low, OP never adjusted. OP increasingly noticed belly fat with age despite often having striated chest and being lean everywhere else. Carbs never made OP satisfied, only more hunger

Cholesterol and blood sugar were always bad, but recent blood test finally crossed over into pre-diabetic blood sugar reading. OP and doctor thought this is a good time for a low carb diet...

OP now several weeks in with no direct carb sources other than some berries and salad, no refeeds so far, didn’t feel the need to, OP feels very good, no keto flu (since OP now knows all the dietary tricks of Keto, earlier Keto experiment didn’t go well for OP...), sleeping like a baby, clear sinuses, no energy crashes, never yawning, strength and stamina in the gym went up significantly, OP’s libido improved (no pics)


Should OP do carb refeeds anyway? Perhaps to boost thyroid or refuel glycogen or remind the body so enzymes for starch etc. digestion don’t disappear?

So you don't eat carbs, got diabetic and you and your doc thought reducing carb intake is a good idea?

[kusok]

So you don't eat carbs, got diabetic and you and your doc thought reducing carb intake is a good idea?

I tried various carb intakes over the years, mostly I ate a reasonably low to mid carb amount. On average I would say 150 grams daily. Sometimes 200+ But I never did a truly low carb diet for any prolonged periods.

[Mrpb]

Your LDL is high. What did your doc say about that?

How much saturated fat and cholesterol are you consuming per day? How's your fiber intake?

[kusok]

Your LDL is high. What did your doc say about that?

How much saturated fat and cholesterol are you consuming per day? How's your fiber intake?

I definitely always ate a lot of sat fat (I’m assuming I ate too much of it), and average fiber intake, I counted my fiber a few times and I was always getting about 30-35g daily. So on low end of what is considered optimum. With this low carb experiment I’m obviously doing more omega 3s, and less sat fat, many people on keto just eat bacon and sausages all day, I know this is the wrong way to go. And I’m taking a fiber sup and eating lots of greens and some berries.


Jumping ahead of myself here, I did plan for the future, after this low carb way of eating for at least a couple of months (doc says to give it 6 months...) I will retest blood and everything else, and if something is wrong or doesn’t improve, and obviously also depending on how I feel, I can always try a different strategy: bring carbs back in at a moderate amount, but increase fiber and decrease sat fat.


By the way, really appreciate all the advice and insight, thank you, and thanks to the other guys ITT.

[Mrpb]

My first experiment with Keto/low carb was not fun, I went totally flat, bad breath, no sleep, and near absolute impotence...

Basically classic Keto flu symptoms. I felt better in some ways (digestion, no bloating etc.) but those massive issues obviously immediately made me reach for that oatmeal and banana.

This second time I did it properly, LOTS of electrolytes, doubled or tripled what I did in the past, much more water intake, MCT, magnesium before bed. Now not having any of those issues. First few days I actually just took a teaspoon of pink Himalayan salt and mixed it in water, just in case. I don’t do that anymore. Just a couple of electrolyte mixes with lots of potassium, and mag before bed. So far all perfect.

One thing i would encourage you to do is to be a bit more skeptical of your conclusions. To give you an example: at first you were confidently claiming several times that eating carbs increased your libido. Now you're saying omitting carbs increases your libido, again with the same confidence.

Then it turns out you've changed many other variables (water intake, MCT, magnesium etc.). In the mean time you're also getting older and who knows you may have developed diabetes (although it's way too early to conclude such a thing). And then there's dozens of other factors that may have changed too. So no way we can conclude that omitting carbs from your diet was the driving factor that increased your libido. It may have played a role, it may not have. There's way too many variables that you didn't control for.