At the end of the day, I don't care if someone is vaccinated or not. I also don't care if they're going to choose to wear a mask or not. Just as long as they leave me the hell alone.
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Thread: Will you get vaccinated?
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09-09-2021, 10:20 AM #4561
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"The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that youre a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." -Henry Rollins
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09-09-2021, 10:32 AM #4562Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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09-09-2021, 10:39 AM #4563
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09-09-2021, 10:49 AM #4564
I work and have worked directly with the FDA on various therapy launches, NDAs, trial designs in the inflammation space. I also regularly attend the FDA review panels. Believe what you want, but the objectivity and thoroughness in their process is unparalleled. We have gotten refuse-to-file letters from them because we didn't report plasma levels of a completely inert metabolite. They are also generally extremely conservative regarding the therapeutic window (adequate efficacy with good safety) of therapies under review.
Always in on join date threads crew
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09-09-2021, 10:50 AM #4565
If healthcare systems truly cared about our health, then they should promote a healthy lifestyle, especially regarding covid, but they don't. Then we wouldn't be at capacity all the time for obesity, diabetes, heart disease and cancer. But they're a for-profit business just like any other corporation. Even the non-profits are profit driven.
Agreed. Our lead epidemiologist was asked a question regarding Ivermectin in a family forum and he stated it simply doesn't work. So either he's mis-read, not up to date on information or is cherry picking data.
Today, I did learn we have a very close relationship with the government regarding various topics including boosters. Instead of doing our own research like we should and are capable of doing, we are waiting on what the government wants to do and wait for their guidance. Which was my suspicion all along. So likely they have input on mandates as well and how everything has been handled so far including forced vaccinations.Last edited by _zman; 09-09-2021 at 10:56 AM.
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09-09-2021, 11:09 AM #4566
United Airlines to put workers excused from COVID-19 shot for religious reasons on unpaid leave
United Airlines is giving five more weeks to employees who sought, but were denied, a company exemption from getting vaccinated against COVID-19 on religious or medical grounds. After that, they could be fired or put on unpaid leave.
The airline's 67,000 U.S.-based workers face a September 27 deadline to get their shots. United says more than half its employees who weren't vaccinated last month have done so since the company announced that vaccine requirements.
Requests for medical exemptions at United are judged by medical staffers including nurses, while requests for waivers based on religious beliefs are handled by personnel-office employees, according to the carrier.Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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09-09-2021, 12:02 PM #4567
Or he knows how to review a study. I can't find any well designed studies that showed in vivo efficacy. Just a couple that warranted more testing. The more recent studies that I find say it's useless. Nice hypothesis on how it could work, but no significant improvement when tested.
The funny part is that anyone thinks there's a conspiracy to keep a cheap medication that works away from patients that could benefit from it.
PS) I did look at several of the studies listed in this: https://journals.lww.com/americanthe...ing_the.4.aspx
and at this:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2777389
and a couple of others that looked promising, but you can't find their data yet and their status wasn't closed in clinical trials. It would be nice if those show some efficacy, but it's not looking promising. Kind of like hydroxychloroquine, but possibly a little bit safer.Last edited by JustTheDad; 09-09-2021 at 12:28 PM.
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09-09-2021, 12:37 PM #4568
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09-09-2021, 01:02 PM #4569
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09-09-2021, 01:29 PM #4570
- Join Date: Jul 2011
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Or maybe he's going off what the manufacture said with regards to its effectiveness against C19:
https://www.merck.com/news/merck-sta...d-19-pandemic/
Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:
No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.
But Alex Jones says they work...Last edited by Jtbny; 09-09-2021 at 01:43 PM.
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/ \ Don't care what you do crew.
Former natty β 101- lift heavy things consistently over time as often as you can recover from.
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09-09-2021, 02:14 PM #4571
Ok this is getting a little extreme, yes she showed poor judgment...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...FIRED-job.htmlThere is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
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09-09-2021, 02:20 PM #4572
- Join Date: Feb 2009
- Location: Houston, Texas, United States
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I was just imagining in my mind how this would have gone down if this woman was following Bodyhard and his wife around the grocery store with these antics.
I'm not one to hit women for any reason except self defense, but I'm thinking if this lady did that crap to me and my family, I'd tell my SO to knock the shiit out of her.
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09-09-2021, 02:27 PM #4573Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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09-09-2021, 02:36 PM #4574
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09-09-2021, 05:06 PM #4575
I wouldβve said check your facts but man, a whole family I know who was vaccinated but the kids got covid.
One of them is a medical doctor in a covid ICU unit (his daughter brought it home from school apparently)
Regardless they all recovered and only this doc guy got sick the most.**^^ gone ^^**
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09-10-2021, 06:26 AM #4576
I'm going off of what other doctors have told me. The ones that don't rely on government funding. They're saying Ivermectin is effective.
I did a quick online search and this was my first result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/
Idk how something cheap and effective is becoming a controversy. It's like people don't want a cure and want mandates and vaccines. I've never seen propaganda like this. We're reaching a whole new level of effective propaganda.
If you don't think Ivermectin works, you can find articles saying that as well. I'll remain open minded.β β β A State of Trance Crew β β β
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09-10-2021, 06:41 AM #4577
- Join Date: Jul 2011
- Location: New York, United States
- Posts: 15,251
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Conspiracy time.
I did a quick online search and this was my first result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/
Idk how something cheap and effective is becoming a controversy. It's like people don't want a cure and want mandates and vaccines. I've never seen propaganda like this. We're reaching a whole new level of effective propaganda.
Ivermectin is effective - for what it was designed to do. But according to the drug maker they have seen no sign of efficacy for C19.
If you don't think Ivermectin works, you can find articles saying that as well. I'll remain open minded.β»/
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/ \ Don't care what you do crew.
Former natty β 101- lift heavy things consistently over time as often as you can recover from.
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09-10-2021, 07:07 AM #4578
Just for chits and giggles can any of you medical pros define what healthy is?
Is it simply the absence of disease?
I ask this because everyone is claiming they are young and healthy, but no one has an exact definition of healthy.There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
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09-10-2021, 07:08 AM #4579
I think I gave the direct link to that review in one of my posts. It's important to look at the actual studies they reviewed, and to look at the weight they gave to each one. They had given the largest study about 15% weight, but after it was reviewed there were huge issues found with the data. Some of the subjects were dead before they were on the study, parts of the study text was plagiarized, and it appears to have been manipulated. Other studies they felt were important had far less than 100 subjects and the methods were questionable. There's also a lot of profit for the people publishing positive studies in some of the locations, and there's variability in the actual products used. In many cases it's not just Ivermectin. The guy in charge of that one is doing his best, but you have to work with what's available and I don't think the quality of the studies is very good. There's another doc in the UK who also thinks it works and her company tries to find the data for people to review. Pretty sure she's an obstetrician. I wasn't impressed with the rigor of the data she was referencing either, but the reality is, if she has no good data, she has to sell her ability to find bad data, and whether you want to believe it's accurate despite the methods and warning signs is up to you.
I haven't seen anything that would convince me to take it unless I was someplace where the water wasn't great or strongyloides or other parasites was a risk. Some of the benefit you see in the studies I'd question were done in more severely ill populations is in countries where putting someone on high dose steroids can have other significant risks. The jury is out, but the best controlled studies I've seen have not shown any benefit unless you look at mice or hamsters, and some of those used different viruses. The efficacy is MUCH lower than that of any of the vaccines, even in the study that appears to have manipulated data, so you do your research and you make your choices.
You might like Carlos Chaccour. I found this a little while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuzHG0rpOrc This is out of date now, but he seems like one of the more reasonable people in the pro Ivermectin camp. I think he did the hamster study I read when trying to find information. Maybe you can find something more up to date than this and see what he thinks now.
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09-10-2021, 07:10 AM #4580
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09-10-2021, 07:15 AM #4581
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09-10-2021, 07:35 AM #4582
Thanks for the info.
The vaccines aren't free, nothing is. And they're showing to be less effective as time goes on. I'm remaining open minded because I've heard from several people that the studies aren't so good, yet I know doctors prescribing it. If it's safe to take, then why not try it. It's safer than the vaccines.Last edited by _zman; 09-10-2021 at 07:42 AM.
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09-10-2021, 07:43 AM #4583
The problem is we have this group of people who are anti-vax who want something like ivermectin to be an answer. And those people aren't as educated or in some cases as intelligent as someone like yourself. They see a link or an infographic supporting what they want to be truth and it starts spreading between these like-minded people. It's sad but it's misinformation being fed to the people who are must vulnerable to misinformation by the people who are most vulnerable to misinformation.
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09-10-2021, 07:51 AM #4584
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09-10-2021, 08:43 AM #4585
I'm sure there's a lot of validity to that, but doesn't it seems like we have a lot more people who are anti-covid vaccines than who are anti-vaccines in general.
I'm not going to say that education doesn't have a big impact, but it shouldn't require an MD plus a bunch of research and data review experience to sort the wheat from the chaff. Right now, it kind of feels like it does because even I have to search and read very carefully.
Also, I'd love it if Ivermectin could be part of the solution to bad outcomes from COVID. I was hoping hydroxychloroquine would be too, although I had even more skepticism about that one panning out.
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09-10-2021, 08:50 AM #4586
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09-10-2021, 09:04 AM #4587Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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09-10-2021, 09:08 AM #4588
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09-10-2021, 09:53 AM #4589
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09-10-2021, 09:57 AM #4590
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