Pope: Jesus Just a Man, Not God

[Retoaded]

These points are repeatedly being addressed, to the point I am repeating the content of the posts, and yet here we have for the like the 4th or 5th time, the very same response "bbb.b.b Jesephus and Tacitus! Thus Jesus existed you uneducated peons!". Kind of hilarious.

an independent historical account from a trusted historian is evidence whether you like what it says or not. obviously its not undeniable proof. but these other guys are acting like nothing of the sort exists, when it does.

[numberguy12]

an independent historical account from a trusted historian is evidence whether you like what it says or not. obviously its not undeniable proof. but these other guys are acting like nothing of the sort exists, when it does.

You are correct that it is not undeniable proof in any possible sense whatsoever. But no, his account, even if genuine, doesn't even have to mean much, if you consider the many questions that arise: without repeating my post, he is writing long after Jesus, and manages to get even things like Pontius Pilate's title wrong in the very passage you are referring to, suggesting he is not writing from primary sources, such as directly from Roman records or something.

[Retoaded]

You are correct that it is not undeniable proof in any possible sense whatsoever. But no, his account, even if genuine, doesn't even have to mean much, if you consider the many questions that arise: without repeating my post, he is writing long after Jesus, and manages to get even things like Pontius Pilate's title wrong in the very passage you are referring to, suggesting he is not writing from primary sources, such as directly from Roman records or something.

wasn't Tacitus like AD 50-100 or so? Not that long after. But not arguing your general point either

[numberguy12]

wasn't Tacitus like AD 50-100 or so? Not that long after. But not arguing your general point either

circa 50 AD- 120 AD (born after Jesus would have died). But the Annals, which contains the passage you refer to, was Tacitus's final work, and is usually dated to into the 2nd century AD. "Long after" is a relative term of course, but there is definitely a time gap here, and who knows what could have happened, and where Tacitus is getting his info.

[RamataKahn]

So yeah, Jesus was real.

[lsiberian]

I used to doubt until I met him. People are gonna be shocked when they pass over.

You are software and your body is hardware. When your body fails you get transferred to a new body at the party. Diversity creates beauty so you need software that has had lots of different experiences to make for a great party.

You are made in the image of God. What is an image? It's literally the term we use a self contained software program.

[sy2502]

There are no historically reliable sources contemporary to the supposed time of Jesus that support the fact he existed. Even the Gospels were written after his supposed death. Tacitus lived 56 AD – 120 AD and Josephus 38 AD - 100 AD so neither historian is contemporary of Jesus, they simply retold stories they had heard from others.

It's worth noting that at that time Judea was straining under the Romans and the Jews were in full messiah mode, except by messiah they meant a warrior that would kick the Romans out, not the son of god that saves us from our sins. We do know at that time there were many preachers, self styled messiahs, and zealots of many kinds who gained various amounts of following.

Also the Hebrew version of Jesus is Yeshua which was one of the most common names, so could one or more of these preachers have been called Yeshua? Sure, why not.

All this is VERY VERY different from saying that the son of god, named Jesus, was born from a virgin, raised the dead, turned water into wine, died for our sins, etc etc.

[Antoine99]

magic wizard

This could turn into a drinking game

[bigcat3655]

Why do so many people still believe in fairytales? Mental illness.

And yet another Ari post of incredible substance.

Jesus was a man during his time on Earth. And he died as a man does. He was not God and didn't say he was

[numberguy12]

So yeah, Jesus was real.

I mean, simply stating claims does not a good argument make.

"So yeah, a triangle has 4 sides".

[Techriding101]

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us.

We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous,
talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of God.

Your playing small does not serve the world.

There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other

people won't feel insecure around you.

We were born to make manifest the glory of
God that is within us.

It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.

And as we let our own light shine,
we unconsciously give other people
permission to do the same.

As we are liberated from our own fear,
Our presence automatically liberates others.

—Marianne Williamson

or be a smart atheist, so smart you spend all day on the internet telling people how smart you are.

[numberguy12]

or be a smart atheist, so smart you spend all day on the internet telling people how smart you are.

You cant have a discussion about what is known/not known about say, the historicity of Jesus, without people like this jumping in to personally attack. Just the nature of this subforum. You are the one making this about "smartness", or whatever you are imagining, I couldn't care less.

[rhadam]

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael...an-not-all-god


Of course. Jesus was just a dude born to a sloot who needed a cover story to explain why she was pregnant in a time when you could be stoned to death for that, so she said "God did it" (presumably because Joseph overheard her yelling "oh, God, oh, God"...).

You're 48 and speak/think like this?

Pathetic lol.

[Techriding101]

You cant have a discussion about what is known/not known about say, the historicity of Jesus, without people like this jumping in to personally attack. Just the nature of this subforum. You are the one making this about "smartness", or whatever you are imagining, I couldn't care less.

What discussion, looks to me like you are just repeating yourself over and over, and over ITT. Get a hobby.

[numberguy12]

What discussion, looks to me like you are just repeating yourself over and over, and over ITT. Get a hobby.

Lol your posts aren't really contributing anything. Not surprisingly, it's a base personal attack.

Some of my points were repeated btw, because other posters were repeating the same objection over and over (Josephus and Tacitus). It does help to follow the posts in the thread.

Believe it or not, it is possible for some people to take an interest in history, the historical method, and questions like the existence of Jesus. Some might even consider this itself a form of a hobby. I'm not interested in things like "smartness", "eliteness", or whatever: if you notice, I did not start my first post in this thread with mindless attacks, I just considered the historical question itself- this is ultimately what I am interested in, in regards to this subject.

Contrast to the posts ITT coming from what appears to be the opposite side:

Regardless of belief, to say the man was not real is just ignorant.
Bunch of know nothing about history *******s itt

This. Most miscers are legit retarded or have the IQ of Forrest Gump tho so I really wouldn't expect them to know that

It is ironic that the condescending atheists in this thread are mocking Christians for believing in fairy tales, and yet are wrong and uneducated about the likely existence of Jesus...they should probably educate themselves before they mock others.

or be a smart atheist, so smart you spend all day on the internet telling people how smart you are.

Lots of comments about IQ, others being uneducated, and other personal attacks. Seems to me it's these people talking down to others in here who don't agree with them.....not the other way around as much (contrary to what the misc typically thinks is the case regarding "militant atheists").

[knightofday]

I'm not Christian, much less Catholic, but it's amazing to me how anyone can think this Pope isn't anything but a traitor to his own religion.

Seconded. The bs hes been spewing is ramping up too, he is a plant and a puppet. Wild chit to witness

[BetaAsPhuck]

Is there even any historical proof that Jesus was real?

Yeah, there is.

There are even skeptics who have looked into it admit that Jesus existed, but they don't believe he was God incarnate, just a radical Rabbi.

There are books written on the the historicity of Jesus, and you can google some articles summarizing the evidence.

[BetaAsPhuck]

An Atheist amateur historian gives a pretty indepth answer to the question...

Do credible historians agree that the man named Jesus, who the Christian Bible speaks of, walked the earth and was put to death on a cross by Pilate, Roman governor of Judea?

https://www.quora.com/Do-credible-hi...ernor-of-Judea

[Weightaholic]

Pope Francis is most certainly an anti-pope, but why do you have to disrespect Catholics' beliefs with that ridiculous comment?

The Catholic church has done little to warrant respect. Quite the opposite....

[Weightaholic]

He is. Having no respect for people's beliefs and calling someone's mom a "sloot." Despicable.

This coming from someone whose own cult denigrates disbelievers all the way through its alleged "holy book".

[CalmWind]

it hurts to see so many lost humans speaking blasphemies against a loving, wonderful Creator.


ITT people arent aware of the many amazing mysteries in the Bible that support Jesus


I'm not shocked that this Pope is a false Pope and is collaborating with the enemy behind closed doors.


Christians ITT, pray for the entire world. It's going to get worse.

[JaymzJ]

Saying he was “just a man” is one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard, given he has died in all of our behalf, out of love for us, just so we have a chance to save ourselves, out of our own free will, nothing forced, if we want to appreciate what he’s done for us, he wants us to follow his fathers direction as he did when he lived as a human, he humbled himself and took on our form, to be a perfect model to follow, which he was. No, he is not God, but he is the son of God and should be treated as such. Whether you believe it or not... have some respect people.
Here, one of the most common scriptures in the bible, clearly showing he was no ordinary man and that he’s God’s son...

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” -John 3:16

“he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground.”
-Philippians 2:7-10

[numberguy12]

Saying he was “just a man” is one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard, given he has died in all of our behalf, out of love for us, just so we have a chance to save ourselves, out of our own free will, nothing forced, if we want to appreciate what he’s done for us, he wants us to follow his fathers direction as he did when he lived as a human, he humbled himself and took on our form, to be a perfect model to follow, which he was. No, he is not God, but he is the son of God and should be treated as such. Whether you believe it or not... have some respect people.
Here, one of the most common scriptures in the bible, clearly showing he was no ordinary man and that he’s God’s son...

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” -John 3:16

“he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground.”
-Philippians 2:7-10

Honest question, what does a Bible verse "clearly showing" something really mean? For obvious reasons, this is not evidence in itself.

Also considering the question of Jesus's historicity is not disrespect, if this is what you are referring to- it's merely considering a historical question. I think the above posts in general show that there are surely questions, and none of this is known with the certainty of say "JFK existed". As for miracles etc, a separate question, no there is no direct evidence of this, and must be believed on faith (I ask again....what exactly is so bad for a matter like this to come down to faith? Why do some Christians not want it to come down to faith? If God could be proven somehow, not that this could happen, then believing in God would be as ordinary as believing 2+2=4 or to use a historical example, acknowledging that World War 2 happened....huh? Thought the idea was supposed to be about faith. Also notice that almost no one denies the above facts, contrast to the large number of people in world who are not religious or believe in God....this tells you something).

You mention disrepect.....seems there is just as much, if not more, disparaging remarks coming from the Christian side here ITT- many personal attacks aimed at other posters etc, see my last post.

[Tamorlane]

Saying he was “just a man” is one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard, given he has died in all of our behalf, out of love for us, just so we have a chance to save ourselves, out of our own free will, nothing forced, if we want to appreciate what he’s done for us, he wants us to follow his fathers direction as he did when he lived as a human, he humbled himself and took on our form, to be a perfect model to follow, which he was. No, he is not God, but he is the son of God and should be treated as such. Whether you believe it or not... have some respect people.
Here, one of the most common scriptures in the bible, clearly showing he was no ordinary man and that he’s God’s son...

He was just a man. You've been brainwashed into believing he died for your sins. I was raised in the cult of Christianity as well but transcended it in my youth. I know a lot of adults who accept it, no coincidence it's the religion of your culture. Had you been born in India you'd likely be a Hindu arguing for the authenticity of Vishnu.

[numberguy12]

He was just a man. You've been brainwashed into believing he died for your sins. I was raised in the cult of Christianity as well but transcended it in my youth. I know a lot of adults who accept it, no coincidence it's the religion of your culture. Had you been born in India you'd likely be a Hindu arguing for the authenticity of Vishnu.

This. Or to take an extreme example, if you were born into the uncontacted tribe on North Sentinel island- the Sentinelese- you sure as hell would not be posting arguments in favor of Christianity on the internet on a bodybuilding forum. You wouldn't have any idea of what Jesus even means.

[iabs]

Why do all leftist cucks love to make fun of religion and religious people?

[BetaAsPhuck]

Why do all leftist cucks love to make fun of religion and religious people?

If I had to guess, a lot of the posters here mocking religions and religious people are right wing.

The majority of R/P is right wing (Conservatives or Libertarians), IME.

[CalmWind]

Why do all leftist cucks love to make fun of religion and religious people?

It's a psychological inferiority complex.

Leftists take contrarian positions to feel good about themselves, because it makes them feel like they know something that the rest of the "dumb sheeple" don't know.

[BetaAsPhuck]

Saying he was “just a man” is one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard, given he has died in all of our behalf, out of love for us, just so we have a chance to save ourselves, out of our own free will, nothing forced, if we want to appreciate what he’s done for us, he wants us to follow his fathers direction as he did when he lived as a human, he humbled himself and took on our form, to be a perfect model to follow, which he was. No, he is not God, but he is the son of God and should be treated as such. Whether you believe it or not... have some respect people.
Here, one of the most common scriptures in the bible, clearly showing he was no ordinary man and that he’s God’s son...

Ex Atheist Christian brah here...

That's not a going to be a convincing argue to "New Atheists" or "Anti-Theists" that you come across.

To them, it's literally the same as saying that it's disrespectful to say that Harry Potter doesn't exist.

They see this from a completely different lens to you.

[numberguy12]

Why do all leftist cucks love to make fun of religion and religious people?

Literally makes fun of others in this very statement, can't make this up.

Look above you in this very thread....lots of personal attacks and insults from the Christian side to atheists. Nothing new.