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  1. #1
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Down to my lowest-ever, but feeling like sh*t

    Hi,

    Some of you have followed my story so far.
    1,92m tall, coming from 168kg down to 130,4kg last week. Lowest I’ve been in 14 Years.

    Lifting weights since mid August, experiencing what i perceive as gigantic strength gains. I do actually now have a biceps, a chest and quads.

    I have been eating a ketogenic diet in the last 5 weeks, but generally I’m on and off various diets.
    Kcal-wise I‘m anywhere between 1.100 and 1.800kcal on a daily basis. I measure everything... I lost around 8 kilos since mid August, for example. I perceive it as slow. On the other hand i lost 7cm on my waist since mid September.

    Going to the gym 3-4 times per week and in terms of supplements: creatine, potassium, magnesium, omega 3.

    To cut it short: I‘m feeling like sh*t. I‘m exhausted all the time, i sleep 8 hours at night and late afternoon feel like taking a nap.
    I seem to soak up water like a sponge. Feeling sluggish like hell.

    I think i need some recommendation. My fear is that when i move back to a diet that includes carbs and i up the caloric intake to something like 2.100 or 2.200kcal, i might be gaining weight again. Even if it is only interim - I‘m freaking out, because I’m so over being overweight, and so excessively determined.

    Thanks
    Stefan
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177624361
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  2. #2
    Registered User eddiegoodfellar's Avatar
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    Keto makes me feel exactly like you are describing. Eat a normal diet with healthy carbs.
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  3. #3
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    crazy feeling, right? Like somebody sucked the life out of me. I'm functioning in terms of i can work, but today I don't even feel like working out. Glad it is my off-day today, but wow...

    Sort of thinking to go back to my normal diet. 2.100kcal, ~200g of carbs, 165g of Protein and 70g of fat. Last time i did that, i had energy levels that were beyond me.
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177624361
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  4. #4
    REMAIN INDOORS SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    Sort of thinking to go back to my normal diet. 2.100kcal, ~200g of carbs, 165g of Protein and 70g of fat. Last time i did that, i had energy levels that were beyond me.
    Seems like an easy choice.
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  5. #5
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Yeah, but i didn't lose a lot of weight either

    Granted, i'm ever-bouncing between keto and a normal diet.

    What will happen if i start eating carbs today? I'll be heavier tomorrow, and i'll doubt what i do.
    Just the pure nature of carbs and the way how they attract water in the body makes it so that i will gain weight - i know. But that's just me...
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  6. #6
    REMAIN INDOORS SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you're most interested in losing fat. If you start eating carbs and gain some water weight, that needn't worry you because it is not the same thing as gaining fat.

    You will lose the same amount of bodyfat on a diet that has the same calorie intake...
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  7. #7
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    I'm guessing you're most interested in losing fat. If you start eating carbs and gain some water weight, that needn't worry you because it is not the same thing as gaining fat.

    You will lose the same amount of bodyfat on a diet that has the same calorie intake...
    I know, i think

    The funny thing is that on Keto i was below 1.500kcal most of the time and still lost weight only very, very slowly. 8kg in 3 months is not exactly rapid - at least not when you weigh 135ish kilos.
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
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  8. #8
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    I know, i think

    The funny thing is that on Keto i was below 1.500kcal most of the time and still lost weight only very, very slowly. 8kg in 3 months is not exactly rapid - at least not when you weigh 135ish kilos.
    You were taking in more calories on a weekly basis than you thought.
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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  9. #9
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tommy W. View Post
    You were taking in more calories on a weekly basis than you thought.
    Might be. Still very unlikely, because i religiously measured everything.
    But I also hit the gym like a mad rat and i do notice significant strength and muscle gains, too.
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177624361
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  10. #10
    Registered User latverian41's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    Hi,

    Some of you have followed my story so far.
    1,92m tall, coming from 168kg down to 130,4kg last week. Lowest I’ve been in 14 Years.

    Lifting weights since mid August, experiencing what i perceive as gigantic strength gains. I do actually now have a biceps, a chest and quads.

    I have been eating a ketogenic diet in the last 5 weeks, but generally I’m on and off various diets.
    Kcal-wise I‘m anywhere between 1.100 and 1.800kcal on a daily basis. I measure everything... I lost around 8 kilos since mid August, for example. I perceive it as slow. On the other hand i lost 7cm on my waist since mid September.

    Going to the gym 3-4 times per week and in terms of supplements: creatine, potassium, magnesium, omega 3.

    To cut it short: I‘m feeling like sh*t. I‘m exhausted all the time, i sleep 8 hours at night and late afternoon feel like taking a nap.
    I seem to soak up water like a sponge. Feeling sluggish like hell.

    I think i need some recommendation. My fear is that when i move back to a diet that includes carbs and i up the caloric intake to something like 2.100 or 2.200kcal, i might be gaining weight again. Even if it is only interim - I‘m freaking out, because I’m so over being overweight, and so excessively determined.

    Thanks
    Stefan
    Go carb up
    If you been doing hard keto for awhile then it’s a pretty safe bet that will fix your problem. Not guanrteed cause it might be something else causing you to feel down like a medical problem.

    I use to go low card through the week and carb up on sundays. I never Yo yo’d
    "it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
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  11. #11
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    Might be. Still very unlikely, because i religiously measured everything.
    But I also hit the gym like a mad rat and i do notice significant strength and muscle gains, too.
    you'd be losing if you were consuming the calorie you said you are. You need to account for everything that goes in your mouth every day. Use a scale. Regardless you need to lower the calories from where you’re at now.
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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  12. #12
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tommy W. View Post
    you'd be losing if you were consuming the calorie you said you are. You need to account for everything that goes in your mouth every day. Use a scale. Regardless you need to lower the calories from where you’re at now.
    I did use a scale... and as I said, religiously. I only started lifting weights in August. I do notice significant changes in body composition, but not happy with the way I feel these days as stated earlier.

    Anyhow, I’ll be shooting for 2.400kcal going forward, including a relatively high amount of carbs. Something like 200g carbs, 160g of protein and 100g of fat. This is the advice I received here earlier. So, it’s going to be the exact opposite of what I’ve been doing lately
    Last edited by estikei; 11-25-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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  13. #13
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    I did use a scale... and as I said, religiously. I only started lifting weights in August. I do notice significant changes in body composition, but not happy with the way I feel these days as stated earlier.

    Anyhow, I’ll be shooting for 2.100kcal going forward, including a relatively high amount of carbs. So, it’s going to be the exact opposite of what I’ve been doing lately
    raising calories does not assist fatloss. You would need to raise your activity levels to not only compensate for the added calories but then have enough activity on top of that to create a big enough deficit. To reiterate, you need to review your counting and tracking. When adding carbs be sure they are of the non processed variety. Make sure you’re counting any liquid calories also.'

    Your loss is about a pound a week and that’s ok but for more you need a bigger deficit. If you post a picture of yourself it would be easier to give a more accurate opinion
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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  14. #14
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Well, don't know if these pics will help a lot.
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
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  15. #15
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    But here they are... (had to get to 50 first )

    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
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  16. #16
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Tommy W. is offline
    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    But here they are... (had to get to 50 first )

    Need shirtless

    However going by your face and your body outline I'd say you need to concentrate on your calorie deficit as I see a high BF%. After getting leaner then concentrate on adding muscle
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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  17. #17
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tommy W. View Post
    Need shirtless

    However going by your face and your body outline I'd say you need to concentrate on your calorie deficit as I see a high BF%. After getting leaner then concentrate on adding muscle
    well you'd be very correct. My BF is still >30%
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  18. #18
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    well you'd be very correct. My BF is still >30%
    you can run a big deficit. You’ll need to get out of your comfort zone and go low cal.
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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  19. #19
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tommy W. View Post
    you can run a big deficit. You’ll need to get out of your comfort zone and go low cal.
    So, in concrete macro terms... what does that mean?
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    So, in concrete macro terms... what does that mean?
    it means get in 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight and fill the rest of your calories with some fat and as many unprocessed carbs as you can fit in your calorie budget.
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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    Almost everyone I know who has tried keto has experienced that. Might be time to ditch the diet, since even if it's helping you lose weight it's hardly useful if it makes you feel like trash.

    There's no need for you to gain weight if you add carbs back in--just keep tracking your macros and calories
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    130,4kg last week. Lowest I’ve been in 14 Years.

    Kcal-wise I‘m anywhere between 1.100 and 1.800kcal on a daily basis. I measure everything... I lost around 8 kilos since mid August, for example. I perceive it as slow. On the other hand i lost 7cm on my waist since mid September.
    So you've lost 8kg in roughly 14 weeks or so, just over a pound a week on average, which says your deficit is probably right around 600-ish on average per day.

    Your daily caloric burn at 130kg at 1.92m is probably in the 3500 +/- range, which means you're eating very close to 3000 calories daily (on average).

    If you really were eating 1800 calories a day you would be losing between 3-4 lbs a week. You are NOT accurately counting calories.
    All it takes is consistency, effort, proper nutrition, good programming, and TIME.
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  23. #23
    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    So you've lost 8kg in roughly 14 weeks or so, just over a pound a week on average, which says your deficit is probably right around 600-ish on average per day.

    Your daily caloric burn at 130kg at 1.92m is probably in the 3500 +/- range, which means you're eating very close to 3000 calories daily (on average).

    If you really were eating 1800 calories a day you would be losing between 3-4 lbs a week. You are NOT accurately counting calories.
    I get your point. But where, in your calculation, are you considering muscle gains?

    In general, I’m still a bit unclear. Should I increase my deficit, for example by applying PSMF? I'd be around 1600kcal with that approach and the minimum nutritional carbs and fats that are recommended. But also, it is recommended to only lift weights 2x per week In order to not burn out.

    With a body recomposition approach I'd be able to train much harder, but also have a much smaller deficite. As far as I've read, body recomposition is suggested for people that have around 20% bodyfat. Until then, people like me can be much more efficient with a higher calorie deficite and less training, just to preserve muscle.

    It's like my ego doesn't allow me to not train as hard and recognize it is more efficient to lose weight quickly until I'm at around 20-22% bodyfat, and only then start lifting weights like a maniac again.
    Last edited by estikei; 11-25-2019 at 09:46 PM.
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177624361
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    I get your point. But where, in your calculation, are you considering muscle gains?
    You're not going to gain a significant amount of muscle while in a calorie deficit, and certainly not enough to create a major offset on the scale (think more in terms of grams of muscle being built, certainly not kilograms).

    I went through this myself 3 years ago, my weekly/monthly strength gains were significant in the gym even while consistently losing 2-3 lbs a week, a lot of this is due to CNS adaptation as your body "learns" how to lift. The real gains as far as physical muscle development didn't start to come until much later when I was back in a calorie surplus.
    All it takes is consistency, effort, proper nutrition, good programming, and TIME.
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    Registered User estikei's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    You're not going to gain a significant amount of muscle while in a calorie deficit, and certainly not enough to create a major offset on the scale (think more in terms of grams of muscle being built, certainly not kilograms).

    I went through this myself 3 years ago, my weekly/monthly strength gains were significant in the gym even while consistently losing 2-3 lbs a week, a lot of this is due to CNS adaptation as your body "learns" how to lift. The real gains as far as physical muscle development didn't start to come until much later when I was back in a calorie surplus.

    Thanks. PSMF and 2x lifting per week it is for me then...
    Feeling considerably better than yesterday after having carbs last night.
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177624361
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    Went for a nice training this morning, 7AM as usual - fasted state.

    Barbell Squats (incl. bar): 60kg x 12, 80kg x 10, 80kg x 10, 80kg x 10 (Superset 1) (+160kg volume)
    Push-ups : 10, 12, 12, 12 (Superset 2) (+6 reps)
    Bent-over barbell rows (incl. bar) : 55kg x 12, 55kg x 12, 55kg x 12, 55kg x 12 (Superset 2) (+180kg volume)
    Preacher curls: 20kg x 10, 25kg x 10, 25kg x 6, 20kg x 10 (Superset 2)
    Bench press (incl. bar) : 60kg x 12, 70kg x 10, 70kg x 8, 60kg x 8 (+140kg volume)
    Machine flyes: 70kg x 15, 70kg x 12, 70kg x 9, 70kg x 10 (+/- 0 volume change)


    Quite staggering that i immediately feel better with having carbs. I had more energy and managed to increase my volume finally. I remember last week that i was really done after doing my squats already.

    I'm going to change a few exercises so that i get a full body workout 2x per week. Probably i'll change the rows for underhand Pull-Ups and the Curls for Military Presses.

    I'll continue my log here, hoping that a few of you will chime in.

    Oh, my weight today. +0,7kg to 133,1
    Check out my log in the „losing fat“ category
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177624361
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    Originally Posted by estikei View Post
    Went for a nice training this morning, 7AM as usual - fasted state.

    Barbell Squats (incl. bar): 60kg x 12, 80kg x 10, 80kg x 10, 80kg x 10 (Superset 1) (+160kg volume)
    Push-ups : 10, 12, 12, 12 (Superset 2) (+6 reps)
    Bent-over barbell rows (incl. bar) : 55kg x 12, 55kg x 12, 55kg x 12, 55kg x 12 (Superset 2) (+180kg volume)
    Preacher curls: 20kg x 10, 25kg x 10, 25kg x 6, 20kg x 10 (Superset 2)
    Bench press (incl. bar) : 60kg x 12, 70kg x 10, 70kg x 8, 60kg x 8 (+140kg volume)
    Machine flyes: 70kg x 15, 70kg x 12, 70kg x 9, 70kg x 10 (+/- 0 volume change)


    Quite staggering that i immediately feel better with having carbs. I had more energy and managed to increase my volume finally. I remember last week that i was really done after doing my squats already.

    I'm going to change a few exercises so that i get a full body workout 2x per week. Probably i'll change the rows for underhand Pull-Ups and the Curls for Military Presses.

    I'll continue my log here, hoping that a few of you will chime in.

    Oh, my weight today. +0,7kg to 133,1
    Wasn't on Keto, just a long hard cut the first half of this year. But I know those feelings you spoke about. Feels like the weight of the world on your shoulders come squat day. My calories are in a surplus now, but not disgustingly high and dirty. I usually carb up the night before my workouts. The advice not to consume genetically modified carbs was spot on. I found I process those differently. Pick your carbs wisely.

    You did get some great advice here. Just keep at it.
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