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  1. #2041
    Registered User lordpatrick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ausman! View Post
    Your living in fantasy land. You dont understand it at all. All these coins now are worthless without government backing.

    Blockchain technology will be the future, when the government releases its own coin that's regulated.
    Have you ever seen anything technological released by the government and used worldwide?
    Do I really don't understand it at all? I want to remind you that:

    - Telecom industry : private
    - Internet industry : private (including protocols)
    - Programming: private
    - AI and robotics: private

    Why would blockchain be any different? It is a technology after all. I'm not talking only about currencies.
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  2. #2042
    Registered User BDSMBBW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordpatrick View Post
    I can see why it's easy for some to just call it quits. Tunnel Vision is strong.

    Have you ever asked yourself the question how you can solve all the political and economical problems? I have. I have given it some very serious thoughts.
    I asked myself, if in theory, communism or capitalism, both succeed, but fail in application, what is the real solution? Another system? If you read about capitalism, you know it should work. Same for communism.
    However, man's biggest problem is CORRUPTION. You get into power, you become lenient, and allow yourself to further boost your selfishness. If you're in a communist country, you make everyone equally poor, and you make yourself super rich. In capitalism, the men in power do exactly the same, but using inflation, taxes, highering their incoming while lowering their people's.
    Democracy allows the people to chose their representatives, but massive manipulation happens in different countries, and often, the same people end up on the same seat of power.

    What is the one solution to all of this: blockchain

    Blockchain is the ultimate solution to every problem our society is facing, and that is not an exageration.
    Imagine running a vote on a blockchain: Impossible to cheat
    Imagine a world where everything is transparent for people in higher positions: Impossible for them to cheat you
    Imagine a world where your data is decentralized: How can they steal it and sell it?
    Imagine a world where your identity is on the blockchain: Who can steal you identity if you have your own private keys?

    Don't confuse price with adoption. Think larger
    Yes most of these coins are going to zero, but the working ones that will survive funding in a bear market for 2-3 years will continue developping.
    Your thoughts are idealistic and well intended, But in reality they are not practical. Big governments and Banks are big for a reason. They are never going away. Governments are not as bad as every one paints them to be.

    Bitcoin will not grow without governments and banks.
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  3. #2043
    Registered User mrc19888's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BDSMBBW View Post
    Governments are not as bad as every one paints them to be.

    Bitcoin will not grow without governments and banks.
    You know how I know you don't live in the US or have never studied human history? The only good thing that ever came from any government on the entire face of the earth over all of human history is the Bill of Rights. Every single thing the government touches in my country is an absolute pile of chit. I do however agree with your second point but for different reasons than you. I don't believe any governing body will ever give control to its people over finances. Ultimately it's not possible because if it ever was getting out of hand where the FED was losing its pull with printing money then the government would simply shut the internet down. There, every crypto is now worthless. So is credit cards. Instantaneously. Only paper money holds value from now on. However, longterm I whole heartily believe that paper money will be a thing of the past. Hell in the 50's people thought credit cards were a fad. Now look at them. I don't remember the last time I intentionally used paper money besides tipping workers in Mexico when I visited last week.

    EDIT: also for anyone trading this is always a must watch video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XafQHxHKak
    Last edited by mrc19888; 12-08-2018 at 04:48 AM.
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  4. #2044
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    Originally Posted by mrc19888 View Post
    You know how I know you don't live in the US or have never studied human history? The only good thing that ever came from any government on the entire face of the earth over all of human history is the Bill of Rights. Every single thing the government touches in my country is an absolute pile of chit. I do however agree with your second point but for different reasons than you. I don't believe any governing body will ever give control to its people over finances. Ultimately it's not possible because if it ever was getting out of hand where the FED was losing its pull with printing money then the government would simply shut the internet down. There, every crypto is now worthless. So is credit cards. Instantaneously. Only paper money holds value from now on. However, longterm I whole heartily believe that paper money will be a thing of the past. Hell in the 50's people thought credit cards were a fad. Now look at them. I don't remember the last time I intentionally used paper money besides tipping workers in Mexico when I visited last week.
    Governments are not efficient or perfect - But without governments it would be utter chaos.

    And yep I agree paper money is on its way out, Even the federal reserves around the world have scaled back "printing" paper money and nowadays are also exploring their own blockchain based currencies.

    So where do you position bitcoin? Bitcoin as digital gold or Bitcoin as a replacement for fiat? Bitcoin replacing fiat is never happening.
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  5. #2045
    Registered User mrc19888's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BDSMBBW View Post
    Governments are not efficient or perfect - But without governments it would be utter chaos.

    And yep I agree paper money is on its way out, Even the federal reserves around the world have scaled back "printing" paper money and nowadays are also exploring their own blockchain based currencies.

    So where do you position bitcoin? Bitcoin as digital gold or Bitcoin as a replacement for fiat? Bitcoin replacing fiat is never happening.
    I'm intelligent enough to admit I don't have a clue longterm what BTC will be. I'll admit that. It's currently being treated as a store of value and I don't like to fight trends so for the time being I'll accept that. Ideally I'd like to see something like XRP, NEM, or RaiBlocks be used more mainstream. Full disclosure I've never owned ripple but any coin that is making strides to handle more and more transactions per second is one I see being used much longer term.
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  6. #2046
    Registered User BDSMBBW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrc19888 View Post
    I'm intelligent enough to admit I don't have a clue longterm what BTC will be. I'll admit that. It's currently being treated as a store of value and I don't like to fight trends so for the time being I'll accept that. Ideally I'd like to see something like XRP, NEM, or RaiBlocks be used more mainstream. Full disclosure I've never owned ripple but any coin that is making strides to handle more and more transactions per second is one I see being used much longer term.
    The reasoning behind my "BTC not replacing fiat" argument is - The federal reserve has been controlling money for almost a century if not more, They are the experts in the field and they will never give up their monopoly. If some blockchain company is able to convince the fed or the big banks to adopt their technology, Hey its great. Good for them and their company and investors.

    Nobody can be certain about btc's future though, Maybe BTC can play a role in everyday transactions or it could go to zero if big guys think btc is interfering in their business in some way.

    Here's a fun website i found you guys might find fascinating.

    https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/
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  7. #2047
    Banned Witrebel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by juvefan View Post
    Lmao wut. Enjoy living in your echo chamber
    It’s not an echo chamber I just feel that the DAO hack and the subsequent fork are evidence of the more centralized nature of ethereum. We agree on the facts, from a technical perspective I do not believe Vitalik and crew can forcefully upgrade everyone’s nodes, so technically the network is decentralized. You view the bitcoin development community as a “fragmented cess pool”. I agree that it is fragmented but I see great value in that. I am open minded I just don’t think we are on the same page here. We can both be pro crypto and not agree on the centralization of Ethereum
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  8. #2048
    Registered User dmaaack's Avatar
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    is ETH rip in peace?
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  9. #2049
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    Originally Posted by FatalTragedy12 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard this argument before. I don't buy it because BTC wasn't defacto regulated by futures etc. during each of those dips. It was the crypto wild west. There was never a mainstream boom like this before.

    That's all over now.

    That might change if BTC's tech is massively overhauled (atomic swapping, >1000 TPS etc.) which will lead to mainstream adoption. People will be using mBTC at that stage though.

    Mainstream adoption is a meme when it comes to price. It's pumped massive %'s with little or none of that so why the fuk are people suddenly so worried about it now... obviously isn't a requirement.


    Lol at thinking CME/CBOE futures with their chit-tier volume for most of the time they've been active have some kinda newfound control over crypto. You think whales/smart money weren't controlling btc back in '13-14? That it was all organic and just doing it's thing right up until futures came online end of '17? Got a bridge I wanna sell you brah.

    As for the newfound mainstream awareness of crypto....that's a very good thing. Dunno why you'd think otherwise. People are greedy af, now that they know about this chit what do you think is gunna happen when the green candles start stacking up and the MSM starts shilling it hard again?
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  10. #2050
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    Boring tech talk. I prefer Bobby Lee hopium talk like his last tweet

    if history repeats perfectly, then the current bear market for #Bitcoin would bottom out at $2,500 next month, in Jan 2019.

    And then the next rally would start in late 2020, peak out in Dec 2021 at $333,000, and then crash back down to $41,000 in Jan 2023.
    Something like that?
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  11. #2051
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    Originally Posted by Witrebel View Post
    It’s not an echo chamber I just feel that the DAO hack and the subsequent fork are evidence of the more centralized nature of ethereum. We agree on the facts, from a technical perspective I do not believe Vitalik and crew can forcefully upgrade everyone’s nodes, so technically the network is decentralized. You view the bitcoin development community as a “fragmented cess pool”. I agree that it is fragmented but I see great value in that. I am open minded I just don’t think we are on the same page here. We can both be pro crypto and not agree on the centralization of Ethereum
    There is no great value in a fragmented community. Bitcoin is a beta version software and will never come out of beta, and already has been overtaken technology wise because of this
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  12. #2052
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    Talking

    Originally Posted by YungSodomy View Post
    My point is you're allergic to money.

    God bless.
    lol. Not at all. No one here knows my financial status. I could be playing with burrito and bottled water money for all you know.

    I could even be a low key whale.. Who knows?

    We don't know what crypto is going to do from here. We will all see whether we like it or not. We don't have to point fingers and critic what people are buying by saying folks are allergic to money, smh. That's backward thinking, but thanks for your opinion.
    Last edited by eternalone423; 12-08-2018 at 08:13 AM.
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  13. #2053
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    Originally Posted by Witrebel View Post
    You lost me at ~90% of new coins being mined in central washington.... 90% of USA mined coins maybe. But bro.... do you even china?
    yep my bad "In the US 90% are mined in central washington." Not the best statement on my part, but it is what it is.

    My point is that EVERY new coin mined will exert downward pressure on current prices until cost per coin to manufacture+ROI equals the futures price.

    So 6 million+ in downward pressure per day. This isn't to say the bulls couldn't fight it, but eventually the economics of arbitrage will force an equilibrium price.
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  14. #2054
    Banned Witrebel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by juvefan View Post
    There is no great value in a fragmented community. Bitcoin is a beta version software and will never come out of beta, and already has been overtaken technology wise because of this
    I think you under value bitcoins resistance to change. Are there more feature rich technologies out there? Sure. Are they technologies I want to trust as a reserve currency? No. Yes it’s still pretty much Beta, but I have a bullish outlook on its ability to succeed at its stated purpose once a useable and scalable payments infrastructure is fleshed out. You may not realize this, but this whole “crypto” thing is a direct result of the 2008 financial crisis. BTC is a reaction to central banking and a flawed financial system. Do not underestimate the signifance of that. This isn’t about crypto kitties, it’s about sound money.


    Originally Posted by Austanian View Post
    yep my bad "In the US 90% are mined in central washington." Not the best statement on my part, but it is what it is.

    My point is that EVERY new coin mined will exert downward pressure on current prices until cost per coin to manufacture+ROI equals the futures price.

    So 6 million+ in downward pressure per day. This isn't to say the bulls couldn't fight it, but eventually the economics of arbitrage will force an equilibrium price.
    Yeah I figured that’s what you meant, just wanted to clarify haha. I think that the vast majority of modern miners are probably “for profit” entities, so they are likely to operate the way you describe. Prior to 2015/2016 I think a fair portion of miners were in it to accumulate BTC and only sold what was necessary to pay the overhead costs or to expand operations. I certainly fit into that category when I mined. Now those miners are likely a slim minority at best. Certainly something to keep in mind though, as that downward pressure is definitely real. How do you see that mechanism changing in 5-10 years when we start to see transaction fees accounting for more of the income than the block reward?
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  15. #2055
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    My God how good would life be if volatility stayed this high? I'm still trigger shy considering BTC has fallen off the rails but this is genuinely exciting every day.
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  16. #2056
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    A friendly reminder that your supposed technical analysis doesn't apply . Your only hope is cope..sshhh only tears now
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  17. #2057
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    Originally Posted by PowersKenny View Post
    A friendly reminder that your supposed technical analysis doesn't apply . Your only hope is cope..sshhh only tears now
    Don't you have something better to do with your Saturday than to try to chit on people on the internet? This thread has actually been the friendliest thing I've probably ever ran into online. I'd like to keep it that way. We actually discuss our beliefs and support each other without getting too out of line. It's almost like we're all decent humans in here besides the occasional turd that pops in (aka you). sheesh
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  18. #2058
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    Originally Posted by Witrebel View Post
    I think you under value bitcoins resistance to change. Are there more feature rich technologies out there? Sure. Are they technologies I want to trust as a reserve currency? No. Yes it’s still pretty much Beta, but I have a bullish outlook on its ability to succeed at its stated purpose once a useable and scalable payments infrastructure is fleshed out. You may not realize this, but this whole “crypto” thing is a direct result of the 2008 financial crisis. BTC is a reaction to central banking and a flawed financial system. Do not underestimate the signifance of that. This isn’t about crypto kitties, it’s about sound money.




    Yeah I figured that’s what you meant, just wanted to clarify haha. I think that the vast majority of modern miners are probably “for profit” entities, so they are likely to operate the way you describe. Prior to 2015/2016 I think a fair portion of miners were in it to accumulate BTC and only sold what was necessary to pay the overhead costs or to expand operations. I certainly fit into that category when I mined. Now those miners are likely a slim minority at best. Certainly something to keep in mind though, as that downward pressure is definitely real. How do you see that mechanism changing in 5-10 years when we start to see transaction fees accounting for more of the income than the block reward?
    Which is never happening. You’re contradicting yourself, its either “resistant to change” or “fleshed out infrastructure” you cant pick both. Lightning network is great, but its very centralized
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    Originally Posted by juvefan View Post
    Which is never happening. You’re contradicting yourself, its either “resistant to change” or “fleshed out infrastructure” you cant pick both. Lightning network is great, but its very centralized
    I don’t think you understand how the lightning network works. It can not subvert or alter the money supply. It is simply a mechanism of exchange. Does it really seem far fetched to you that time sensitive low trust transactions like a cup of coffee or a micro payment stream could happen on a lightning network or other layer two solution, while time insensitive high trust transactions like buying a house or a car or any other high value exchange could happen on chain and simply wait the hour for proper 6 confirmation security? The centralization of the lightning network does not alter the soundness of the underlying asset (BTC). It’s not a contradiction, it’s just being open minded that this isn’t a one size fits all world.
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    Originally Posted by PowersKenny View Post
    A friendly reminder that your supposed technical analysis doesn't apply . Your only hope is cope..sshhh only tears now
    Your so smarrt kenny, u must b worth billions wit ur mkt predictions
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    Originally Posted by gixxer0.6g View Post
    Boring tech talk. I prefer Bobby Lee hopium talk like his last tweet
    Neck-less Robert's looking better and better by the day.

    His recently famous 10k EOY call made me wonder why he doesn't already have a youtube channel.
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    Originally Posted by eternalone423 View Post
    lol. Not at all. No one here knows my financial status. I could be playing with burrito and bottled water money for all you know.

    I could even be a low key whale.. Who knows?

    We don't know what crypto is going to do from here. We will all see whether we like it or not. We don't have to point fingers and critic what people are buying by saying folks are allergic to money, smh. That's backward thinking, but thanks for your opinion.
    Most patient people know.


    But I wish you luck, boyo.


    Just trying to save you from losing another 50% in crypto value within the coming weeks. Sa'll good. I'll be around when we get there.
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    Originally Posted by gixxer0.6g View Post
    Boring tech talk. I prefer Bobby Lee hopium talk like his last tweet
    I actually kind of agree with this
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    Originally Posted by Witrebel View Post
    I don’t think you understand how the lightning network works. It can not subvert or alter the money supply. It is simply a mechanism of exchange. Does it really seem far fetched to you that time sensitive low trust transactions like a cup of coffee or a micro payment stream could happen on a lightning network or other layer two solution, while time insensitive high trust transactions like buying a house or a car or any other high value exchange could happen on chain and simply wait the hour for proper 6 confirmation security? The centralization of the lightning network does not alter the soundness of the underlying asset (BTC). It’s not a contradiction, it’s just being open minded that this isn’t a one size fits all world.
    I dont understand how you consider ethereum centralized due to an external source (development team) but the lightening network doesnt centralize bitcoin. Sounds like you’re very biased
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    Originally Posted by Witrebel View Post

    Yeah I figured that’s what you meant, just wanted to clarify haha. I think that the vast majority of modern miners are probably “for profit” entities, so they are likely to operate the way you describe. Prior to 2015/2016 I think a fair portion of miners were in it to accumulate BTC and only sold what was necessary to pay the overhead costs or to expand operations. I certainly fit into that category when I mined. Now those miners are likely a slim minority at best. Certainly something to keep in mind though, as that downward pressure is definitely real. How do you see that mechanism changing in 5-10 years when we start to see transaction fees accounting for more of the income than the block reward?
    Hard to say... I am not a crypto believer because of how it evolved. Many of you seem to absolutely hate the Fed Reserve because of the negatives, but disregard the positives it also brings. Likewise a crypto system with a fixed number of units does solve issues, but also creates other problems.

    However, I do know two things.
    1. There will be incredible downward pressure until equilibrium price is reached. That is (lowest cost to mine)+ROI. (Lowest cost to mine has both short term and long term numbers.)
    2. Most crypto buyers were not using it like they would a forex transaction, but due to hope for ridiculous ROI.

    I believe for these reasons that all of the investors that bought it for ridiculous ROI purposes will eventually become jaded and sell further depressing prices. This MAY kill it or it may allow for a real pricing model to evolve. Arbitrage situations do not stay around long. As long as they exist people will exploit them until the arbitrage opportunity is gone.
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    Originally Posted by juvefan View Post
    I dont understand how you consider ethereum centralized due to an external source (development team) but the lightening network doesnt centralize bitcoin. Sounds like you’re very biased
    I don't have a finanical bias if that's what you mean. I certainly prefer Bitcoin to Ethereum in terms of which project I am a bigger supporter of. I am genuinely curious why you think the lightning network will centralize bitcoin? I am also curious how you define centralized, and why you feel it is a bad thing. For example I dislike that our money supply is centralized and that I have no say in it. I would like the USD to be on the gold standard, but even if I somehow got a political movement going and got an amendment in the works, I couldn't affect much change short of military intervention. The Fed is a centralized power, they don't answer to the government or the people. If you wanted to change the Bitcoin money supply rules, how would you suggest doing that? How about Ethereum, do you think it is equally (in practice, not in theory) difficult to alter the Ethereum protocol than Bitcoin? If you had some power or leverage over Vitalik, do you think he could strongly influence things? Can you point to a single entity with that power in the Bitcoin space? Circling back, how do you see the lightning network affecting this line of thinking? Are you afraid that the majority of Bitcoin will be stored in hubs? Do you understand how the actual lightening protocol works at a programmatic level? I'm not trying to be a d*ck I just want to emphasize why absolute censorship resistance is more important to me than rapid development.
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    Originally Posted by Austanian View Post
    Hard to say... I am not a crypto believer because of how it evolved. Many of you seem to absolutely hate the Fed Reserve because of the negatives, but disregard the positives it also brings. Likewise a crypto system with a fixed number of units does solve issues, but also creates other problems.

    However, I do know two things.
    1. There will be incredible downward pressure until equilibrium price is reached. That is (lowest cost to mine)+ROI. (Lowest cost to mine has both short term and long term numbers.)
    2. Most crypto buyers were not using it like they would a forex transaction, but due to hope for ridiculous ROI.

    I believe for these reasons that all of the investors that bought it for ridiculous ROI purposes will eventually become jaded and sell further depressing prices. This MAY kill it or it may allow for a real pricing model to evolve. Arbitrage situations do not stay around long. As long as they exist people will exploit them until the arbitrage opportunity is gone.
    To be fair, I would say that if I step outside of the "Bitcoin True Believer Bubble" and interact with the rest of the world, it's maybe 1 in 10 people at best that are actually serious about the sound money/middle finger to the Fed side of things. Most people are indeed looking for the incredible ROI and don't want to miss out on the next big thing. Very few people outside of the folks affected by hyperinflation zones care about the store of value/borderless currency aspect. Until that changes your outlook is probably right. I am just hoping that eventually more and more people are going to wake up and realize what is happening to our economy, and that they will see Sound Money in any form as the answer.
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    Originally Posted by gixxer0.6g View Post
    Boring tech talk. I prefer Bobby Lee hopium talk like his last tweet
    Someone in here was saying he's seen $400 prediction. I would buy 2 whole bitcoins on the spot instead of just buying $50 here and there at current levels.
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    Brave is coming bundled on HTC phones, and there is likely much bigger news. Drops 4%

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    brave browser crew
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    Originally Posted by Parkerscott View Post
    Brave is coming bundled on HTC phones, and there is likely much bigger news. Drops 4%

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    that's huge actually
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