Any other activity with so much confusion, ignorance, misinformation, bro-science?

[grubman]

I’ve been hopping around on the sub-forums of BB.com, and it really is rediculous how much confusion there is about what to do, and how to do it. So much unproductive and conflicting information. So many people trying to sell you something along with thier lies, so many false gurus, so many “industry” people wanting to sell you unnecessary and useless supplements...and so many people totally new to the game thinking somehow thier ideas (and routines) are somehow going to unlock secrets that a hundred years of lifters and real science haven’t figured out.

I know all the above has been addresses before, But all this got me wondering if there are any other hobbies, activities that suffer from this much BS? I mean, I belong to other communities. I play a little guitar, I really like face to face games (RPGs, board games, war games), I’m involved with animals (exotic and domestic), I do artwork, I write...All of these have people from all walks of life, and all of them have preferences and opinions...but there is no real “confusion” about anything. There are endeavors to sell you products...but generally not useless BS. There isn’t conflicting “science”, real or “bro”, that people will spout off with complete conviction.

Is lifting/excercise/nutrition exclusive in all this excessive exploitation and utter confusion? The irony being it’s something so simple that all the core basics most people ever need to know can be summarized in less words that this post.

[JeremyM07201978]

I agree with you... It all reminds me of those "get rich quick schemes" out there taking advantage of people.

My perspective... Because everyone responds to training and Nutrition a little differently, there will always be some individuals who are more easily successful. Some get the impression it is easy to accomplish because of that, and as long as there are people who want a short cut to working hard and eating right, there will be others ready to push their ideas or products onto them.

[Sweetums6000]

Two of my hobbies, brewing beer and raising tarantulas, have quite a bit of misinformation out there that gets perpetuated, but not on the same level, to where there is a gazillion dollar industry pushing the misinformation. Probably because there isn’t as much money to made. Pretty much every human on the planet wants to be in better shape, but few of them actually want to do what it takes, which leaves a huge market open to exploitation.


But more importantly, got any good board game recommendations? My favorite is Last Night on Earth (zombies).

[etet1919]

I’ve been hopping around on the sub-forums of BB.com, and it really is rediculous how much confusion there is about what to do, and how to do it. So much unproductive and conflicting information. So many people trying to sell you something along with thier lies, so many false gurus, so many “industry” people wanting to sell you unnecessary and useless supplements...and so many people totally new to the game thinking somehow thier ideas (and routines) are somehow going to unlock secrets that a hundred years of lifters and real science haven’t figured out.

I know all the above has been addresses before, But all this got me wondering if there are any other hobbies, activities that suffer from this much BS? I mean, I belong to other communities. I play a little guitar, I really like face to face games (RPGs, board games, war games), I’m involved with animals (exotic and domestic), I do artwork, I write...All of these have people from all walks of life, and all of them have preferences and opinions...but there is no real “confusion” about anything. There are endeavors to sell you products...but generally not useless BS. There isn’t conflicting “science”, real or “bro”, that people will spout off with complete conviction.

Is lifting/excercise/nutrition exclusive in all this excessive exploitation and utter confusion? The irony being it’s something so simple that all the core basics most people ever need to know can be summarized in less words that this post.

Another thoughtful and well written post from Grubman!! Are we surprised? I'm not a "fitness expert," so I can't give doctorate-level explanations for anything related to exercise physiology, biogenetics or sports psychology. People (especially nubes) have many inquisitive questions regarding their programs (form is a big one) and their "potential," it seems. A lot of this is all centered around aesthetics....and the high standards we all place on our selves, at least on this forum, seemingly. Personally, I think that because our society places such high importance on "idealistic standards" of beauty, for both men and women, that it makes everyone feel they have to adhere to these as much as possible....otherwise we can be deemed "unfit," "undesirable," and therefore, possibly "unlovable." It's a jungle out there, Grubman, with lots of petty, and not so petty competition. There is a lot competition in all industries, especially in music (guitar....impressive!) and all art fields. But, with art....art is subjective, whereas science is not supposed to be. We look to science for answers, unambiguous conclusions and hopefully facts....because it's supposed to be "objective." But we're finding out that "scientific objectivity" changes, as scientists develop more sophisticated methods of testing and discover additional or opposing information than previously understood.

So, things are a lot less complicated in the art world right now?

[gipper53]

I’ve been hopping around on the sub-forums of BB.com, and it really is rediculous how much confusion there is about what to do, and how to do it. So much unproductive and conflicting information. So many people trying to sell you something along with thier lies, so many false gurus, so many “industry” people wanting to sell you unnecessary and useless supplements...and so many people totally new to the game thinking somehow thier ideas (and routines) are somehow going to unlock secrets that a hundred years of lifters and real science haven’t figured out.

I know all the above has been addresses before, But all this got me wondering if there are any other hobbies, activities that suffer from this much BS? I mean, I belong to other communities. I play a little guitar, I really like face to face games (RPGs, board games, war games), I’m involved with animals (exotic and domestic), I do artwork, I write...All of these have people from all walks of life, and all of them have preferences and opinions...but there is no real “confusion” about anything. There are endeavors to sell you products...but generally not useless BS. There isn’t conflicting “science”, real or “bro”, that people will spout off with complete conviction.

Is lifting/excercise/nutrition exclusive in all this excessive exploitation and utter confusion? The irony being it’s something so simple that all the core basics most people ever need to know can be summarized in less words that this post.

I think any product or program that is aimed squarely at improving the human body probably has a ton of FUD surrounding it. Most anything else involves selling you a tangible product that is more easily quantifiable why one is better than another (why guitar A is better than guitar B). And that difference doesn't really involve the human effort side of the equation. You can buy the better guitar today and brag about it, the better human body will take months or years of hard work no matter what product you buy.

Fitness is also one of the few activities where talent can never make up for lack of practice. You may be a great guitar player, and could not pick one up for a few years and probably still bang out solid riffs. Fitness...if you don't constantly practice it you lose it quickly. Even after you've attained it, only constant hard work will keep it. Fitness is something that everyone wants, but few achieve. Hence, everyone is always looking for the shortcut here because it's so damn hard. What people really want be sold is the shortcut that doesn't exist. All of this BS you mention is the market trying to sell that magic bullet, which lead to widespread information.

[bodyhard]

There is a lot of misinformation and BS about dogs, especially Rottweilers and Pitbulls.

[etet1919]

There is a lot of misinformation and BS about dogs, especially Rottweilers and Pitbulls.

You mean, they don't have very sharp teeth?? JK!!!

[tblodg15]

Some good things have been said already with the gazillion dollar industry that can exploit so many people looking for a shortcut.

But another thing not really mentioned is how so many people seem to be fascinated by what others are doing when it comes to fitness. Maybe it has been mentioned already with people being gullible or if they see someone else with success maybe they think that will somehow make it easier for them? I am obviously just a normal guy but with the transformation I have made in the last 2 years I can't believe how many people want to know my exact diet and lifting routine. I always try to be helpful but what I am thinking in my mind when people ask is WHY DOES IT MATTER EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING? Just start eating more healthy foods, lifting, and doing some cardio! Of course it is a little more complicated than that but the exact diet and exact exercises are super trivial to just getting started and sticking with it. And sadly the reason 90% of people fail when it comes to losing weight or gaining muscle is because they don't sustain it so the exact routine they followed was insignificant yet that seems to be what so many focus on.

[metalbabble]

Fitness/bodybuilding has nothing on the mile-a-minute shi* show that is the crypto space.

[wave_length]

If you include losing weight and health into the term fitness, I think it takes the crown.

[ElrondHubbard]

Another thoughtful and well written post from Grubman!! Are we surprised? I'm not a "fitness expert," so I can't give doctorate-level explanations for anything related to exercise physiology, biogenetics or sports psychology. People (especially nubes) have many inquisitive questions regarding their programs (form is a big one) and their "potential," it seems. A lot of this is all centered around aesthetics....and the high standards we all place on our selves, at least on this forum, seemingly. Personally, I think that because our society places such high importance on "idealistic standards" of beauty, for both men and women, that it makes everyone feel they have to adhere to these as much as possible....otherwise we can be deemed "unfit," "undesirable," and therefore, possibly "unlovable." It's a jungle out there, Grubman, with lots of petty, and not so petty competition. There is a lot competition in all industries, especially in music (guitar....impressive!) and all art fields. But, with art....art is subjective, whereas science is not supposed to be. We look to science for answers, unambiguous conclusions and hopefully facts....because it's supposed to be "objective." But we're finding out that "scientific objectivity" changes, as scientists develop more sophisticated methods of testing and discover additional or opposing information than previously understood.

So, things are a lot less complicated in the art world right now?

In the fitness industry, there is a lot of stuff wrapping itself in the mantle of "science" which simply isn't. This whole thing is more like marketing from beginning to end -- and one end we have products and "experts" hawking their benefits to us, and on the other end we have our insecure selves marketing our bodies, insecurities, and self-worth to the world.

People who are just looking for general health benefits aren't quite as susceptible, but for most of us it goes a lot deeper than that. We're seeking for an aesthetic image, and there's nothing more subjective, and more vulnerable to manipulation, than our own personal self-image.

[ElrondHubbard]

...Most anything else involves selling you a tangible product that is more easily quantifiable why one is better than another (why guitar A is better than guitar B). And that difference doesn't really involve the human effort side of the equation. You can buy the better guitar today and brag about it, the better human body will take months or years of hard work no matter what product you buy.

Speaking of a better guitar...

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...uction-785547/

[grubman]

For some reason I keep getting error messages when I try to post today “this page is taking a rest break”. I’m not ignoring people if this one actually posts.

[grouchyjarhead]

The martial arts world is way more crazy than the fitness world.

[blue9steel]

My wife and I ride horses, and let me tell you that the levels of ignorance, confusion, misinformation and marketing are sky high. There is even some crossover with bodybuilding in that many horse owners don't know how to properly feed their horses. Way too many people use tons of sweet feed and then can't figure out why their horse has behavior problems and bad feet.

[startingat56]

many think that if you take vitamin S, you will sprout massive muscles

they don't know that the hard work, effort, and commitment still needs to be done (diet and sleep too)

this understanding contributes to the idea that supplements are a shortcut to gains, so they are willing to part with their money for the full spectrum of products out there



if you consider religion an activity .... it certainly beats out anything else for confusion, ignorance, misinformation, and bro-science

[etet1919]

The martial arts world is way more crazy than the fitness world.

Besides the obvious (some, not all!) egos, competitive instincts and brutal training, how so?

[Scathe]

I'm a member of the CivicX forums as well, and there's definitely a lot of misinformation and people trying to sell garbage in the automotive hobby space. Everything from boosting horsepower, proper engine & transmission care, aftermarket parts, tuning, troubleshooting, maintenance and repairs, proper ways (and more importantly products) for cleaning a car, doing minor bodywork, etc are all heavily exploited by vultures. There are always a million new products available for all of these things, and everyone has their own opinions and products they use, and tend to become rabid fanboys and poster children for them ("here's why Armor All will RUIN your dashboard and you should use Brand X instead", or "You need to use Shell V-Power 93 octane gas with this octane booster", "You should only use XYZ Wax, Turtle Wax will eat away your clearcoat!", for some examples). 99.9% of the time it's BS people are spouting to sell something.

Usually it's companies posing as real people trying to sell some aftermarket products, or new products that compete with mainstream ones. Other times it's real people, but they're talking nonsense to convince people to click on their Amazon affiliate links in the post.

[d2mini]

Saltwater Reef Aquariums.
Been in it heavy for 10+ years, even moderate the largest forum and it's insane.
I don't know if I'd call it all "lies" but so much variance in opinion on all aspects of the hobby, and on the commercial side where every one is trying to get a piece of the pie there is definitely a lot of snake oil salesman.
It can be a very frustrating hobby because there never seems to be a single concrete answer to a problem.

[Jtbny]

Big business in complicating a rather simple process and selling it back to you

[PhantomMaxx]

The Fitness industry is as clutter as the definition of the word it self. Everyone has a different definition of what fit is, and how to get fit. This ambiguity opens up the opportunity for so many to give advice and to be experience in their specific discipline, often offending those with a differences of opinion. That is why when replying to a question on the forum it is best to start with "in my opinion" or "from my experience". As a contributor to the forum perhaps we should also state "individual results may vary", because everyones genetics is different. Opportunist and marketeers will present their product or services as fact. Establishing a tone for their brand as the expert, and supporting their claims with imagery of the desired physique of mostly younger and genetically gifted people. We as practitioners and consumers must remain vigilante on what we believe and what we share. I'm involved in several forums for other hobbies centered around physical products; BMW automobiles (M3 mostly), Harley-Davidson motorcycles, and electric skateboards. A bit less clutter, and most of the opinions are subjective to aesthetics, performance, and price.

[Gabbar99]

I also keep an eye on nutrition, not necessarily connected to bodybuilding, and there is so much nonsense out there. Mostly people make things more complicated than they are and/or want to "hack" the system with magic new secrets and really get a charge out of saying others are wrong.

Similar story in my other hobby: running. For example, lots of bro advice on running form based on speculation. If you just friggin run, your body will figure out how to do it.

My professional area is water: chemistry, treatment, supply... I have my PhD in that area and teach and do research in it. Water disinformation especially drives me nuts. There's so much crazy pseudoscience out there about energized water, structured water, ionized water, alkaline water (a real thing but no relation to how the alkaline diet handles it). Also bro-science about how much you should drink or that you should drink only plain water or distilled water or mineral water. There can be good or bad things in water, but H2O is H2O is H2O, your body will tell you when you need it, and it doesn't matter how you get it.

[TheRedCardinal]

Cycling is a good one.

From the relatively harmless arguments over for example leg shaving to the potentially dangerous helmet debate.

Not to mention the ridiculousness of the lightweight components market.... £90 for a carbon drinks holder to shave off 30g.... Then promptly putting 1kg of water into it.

[MrCarrot]

I think with any hobby, interest and industry, once you get immersed there is the tendancy to get obsessed. When you put a lot of time, effort and energy into something you'd like to think that 100% of your effort is paying off, not 50% or 80% of your effort. I believe this is why there's so much information floating around which is either a myth, or accounts for so little by way of real progress it's hardly worth worrying about.

However I think fitness, weight loss and bodybuilding is one of the worst I have seen for this kind of thing. I think it's perhaps made worse by the fact that scientists themselves don't know *everything* there is to know about human biology and nutrition, so the average man on the street typically has no clue whatsoever. All they know is they gain weight too easily and find it too difficult to lose weight so they're looking for some magic answer, and sales people like providing magic answers which makes it even worse.

[OldFartTom]

No pursuit that involves people is immune from stupidity, snake oil and downright BS.

Anything that involves some kind of sale will have it worse than others, for example running has some BS but bodybuilding with greater sales opportunities has proportionally more BS.

Not saying all BS is directly sales driven, but I think that inflates the BS levels dramatically and then it can self perpetuate.

Agree with original post, that bodybuilding seems to suffer especially badly here.

I posted this once before, but here is is again for your viewing pleasure

[grouchyjarhead]

Besides the obvious (some, not all!) egos, competitive instincts and brutal training, how so?

Way more weirdos and frauds. You throw a foreign sounding name on anything and you can make bank. Plus, chi is magic.

[OldFartTom]

Thanks grouchyjarhead enjoyed that. A reminder never to eat the yellow bamboo

[Cantplankwell]

Politics?

Finance and Investing?

[Aristotelian]

Dating. Because "women always cheat" and "marriage means you're cucked" and all the nonsense that is being thrown around today by PTED (post traumatic embitterment disorder) types as axiomatic truths.

Try telling someone these days that you're happily married and see what the average reaction is.

It is like people in my office who see me taking a PWO and assume that it I must be doing something illegal because I lift.

Far too much ignorance out there these days despite the increased way that people can look for truths through technology.

[OldFartTom]

... ... Far too much ignorance out there these days despite the increased way that people can look for truths through technology....

Wasn't there always ignorance and stupidity. Technology just increases the speed and quantity of the flow of BS.
You can't blame it as a cause or expect it to be any kind of cure (wikipedia or not).

Now and again I read accounts of lifting and during the 50s and 60s according to some... if you were into weightlifting or bodybuilding people (who didn't lift) back then might assume you must be gay
Stupidity is timeless