Official vertical/jumping/dunking thread POST ALL VERT QUESTIONS HERE

[Mr.Serpent]

Could i do pylometrics 4 times a week?
And should i do them before Strength Training or on another days?

AcMr

You certainly can. Will you get worse as a result? Most likely.

I am making the assumption that you are talking about real plyos and not just using it as a word for 'anything explosive'. Real plyometrics are a tool to be used in the right places like everything else. If your goal is to jump high then stick with something with low CNS stress while you focus on heavy strength training. Box jumps are one of the least stressful things you can do while still teaching yourself to jump. Try those before lifting once or twice a week and keep the volume low. Harder stuff, like plyos, can come much later when you have a better strength base.

[AcMr]

You certainly can. Will you get worse as a result? Most likely.

I am making the assumption that you are talking about real plyos and not just using it as a word for 'anything explosive'. Real plyometrics are a tool to be used in the right places like everything else. If your goal is to jump high then stick with something with low CNS stress while you focus on heavy strength training. Box jumps are one of the least stressful things you can do while still teaching yourself to jump. Try those before lifting once or twice a week and keep the volume low. Harder stuff, like plyos, can come much later when you have a better strength base.

115kg/255lbs Back Squat and 140kg/310lbs Deadlift BW=72kg/158lbs
I think thats a good Strength Base or?I know its not the optimum or very good but its more than 1,5xBW
In the Moment my Training plan is divided into phases
Hypertrophy 4 weeks
Maximum Strength 4 weeks
Power 4 weeks
But in the next months i wanted to try a Explosive Plan, which contains two times a week an pylometric circle and two times a week before performing the upper body workout you have to do one pylometric Exercise, so it contains four times a week pylometrics but thats not good or?

Sorry for my english :§

[Mr.Serpent]

115kg/255lbs Back Squat and 140kg/310lbs Deadlift BW=72kg/158lbs
I think thats a good Strength Base or?I know its not the optimum or very good but its more than 1,5xBW
In the Moment my Training plan is divided into phases
Hypertrophy 4 weeks
Maximum Strength 4 weeks
Power 4 weeks
But in the next months i wanted to try a Explosive Plan, which contains two times a week an pylometric circle and two times a week before performing the upper body workout you have to do one pylometric Exercise, so it contains four times a week pylometrics but thats not good or?

Sorry for my english :§

Your english is fine, don't worry.

If we're being objective, you're still pretty weak. Don't take it personally, I still consider myself weak (currently 125x5 back squat at 73). It's going to take a LOT more strength to significantly improve your power output, it can take years, and that's fine; just be in it for the long haul.

You can organise things into mesocycles if you really want, but do you compete in anything? I think you're selling yourself short if there's nothing else in your way. Put a lot of effort into getting strong for the next year or so. Develop other attributes as you go, but remember that killing yourself over them isn't worth it, let them improve naturally as your strength goes up. This is my exact approach to powercleans, sprints and throws. My squat is my focus right now, I train the others, but I don't kill myself doing them. They improve gradually as my strength goes up.

When the time is right and you're a lot stronger, you can taper off from heavy strength training. Stick with doubles and triples that are FAST, then start to introduce more explosive work. Depth drops, bunny jumps, depth jumps etc...

Long term this type of training will make you much better athletically. It just depends whether or not you can keep that goal in mind, or if you want immediately satisfy your desire to do explosive training. Hope this helps.

[AcMr]

Your english is fine, don't worry.

If we're being objective, you're still pretty weak. Don't take it personally, I still consider myself weak (currently 125x5 back squat at 73). It's going to take a LOT more strength to significantly improve your power output, it can take years, and that's fine; just be in it for the long haul.

You can organise things into mesocycles if you really want, but do you compete in anything? I think you're selling yourself short if there's nothing else in your way. Put a lot of effort into getting strong for the next year or so. Develop other attributes as you go, but remember that killing yourself over them isn't worth it, let them improve naturally as your strength goes up. This is my exact approach to powercleans, sprints and throws. My squat is my focus right now, I train the others, but I don't kill myself doing them. They improve gradually as my strength goes up.

When the time is right and you're a lot stronger, you can taper off from heavy strength training. Stick with doubles and triples that are FAST, then start to introduce more explosive work. Depth drops, bunny jumps, depth jumps etc...

Long term this type of training will make you much better athletically. It just depends whether or not you can keep that goal in mind, or if you want immediately satisfy your desire to do explosive training. Hope this helps.

Of course i dont take it personally
I know I always need to imrpove my strength, the mesocycles arent excluding each other so as example:
In the hypertrophie phase i have two leg days
The first starting with Pylometrics, than a Strength Exercise like Squat than Hypertrophy exercises like Romain Deadlift, Hip Thrusts..
and after that Core exercises on the other day i do Explosive Exercises instead of pylometrics
In the Maximum Phase I change the repetitions in the Strength Exercises to 2-4 and in the power Phase i do explosive+Pylometrics before the strength Exercise than the core exercises.

I play Basketball, as Point Guard but im not very good. My shooting skills are bad, my passing and dribbling skills are okay. So I have to improve my athletic. This season I dont play to do that. I have time to august than I have to decrease my body fat. So in this time i want to improve as much as possible.

This goal in Mind im working on everything to improve my power every day.

I know my english isnt good-> Sorry

Why do you prefer to improve the Maximum Strength than first improving the Explosive Strength?

[Mr.Serpent]

Some athletes are blessed with springy, elastic tendons. These tend to be the guys you'd see as "natural athletes". They've always been able to jump high and sprint fast, most of us aren't so lucky.

Think of it like this, your power won't ever exceed your strength. If your max squat is 115, what's the most you could handle with power? It differs from person to person, but we'll go with 80%, so 92kg. If your squat goes up to 180, your 80% is now 144. That's a big difference. For MOST athletes who aren't talented in terms of tendons, the key to athleticism is having a strength ceiling as high as possible.

This is somewhat over simplified, but long term, you'll get much more out of adding 40kg to your squat than by going crazy with plyos. Just do something in the middle of the force/velocity curve (again, like power cleans) to make sure that you can move something fast while you stick to heavy lifting. That's my advice for you at least.

[mlgpro]

Some athletes are blessed with springy, elastic tendons. These tend to be the guys you'd see as "natural athletes". They've always been able to jump high and sprint fast, most of us aren't so lucky.

Think of it like this, your power won't ever exceed your strength. If your max squat is 115, what's the most you could handle with power? It differs from person to person, but we'll go with 80%, so 92kg. If your squat goes up to 180, your 80% is now 144. That's a big difference. For MOST athletes who aren't talented in terms of tendons, the key to athleticism is having a strength ceiling as high as possible.

This is somewhat over simplified, but long term, you'll get much more out of adding 40kg to your squat than by going crazy with plyos. Just do something in the middle of the force/velocity curve (again, like power cleans) to make sure that you can move something fast while you stick to heavy lifting. That's my advice for you at least.

I think "springy tendons" is broscience. What black athletes have (proven in studies) that other athletes don't is a higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers (type 2) as shown here:

[SwoleRTibbs]

What would be a good vertical jump to height ratio? I'm 6 feet tall and I can touch rim. But I can running box jump over 60 inches. I'm 17 is that considered good??

[Mr.Serpent]

I think "springy tendons" is broscience. What black athletes have (proven in studies) that other athletes don't is a higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers (type 2) as shown here:
http://i.imgur.com/fdknRi4.png

I've seen stuff like this before, and I don't believe it's the only reason. Otherwise this would transfer to the weight room more, but some of the most talented people in the world athletically have rather intermediate power output in the gym. The power athletes impress every where, others not so much.

Tendons are far from bro science. Elite triple jumpers are probably the best example of tendons in action. They absorb and exert huge amounts of force through them, equivalent to multiple times bodyweight, and almost none of them would turn heads in a gym.

[EliteUchihaOfD1]

I've been working on my vertical for 4 weeks now and i have noticed some huge gains as of late. I have video proof up for people who are interested in getting their bounce up as well. I'm doing it so I can dominate the sport and destroy during march madness one day. But I'm recording the results for any skeptics or naysayers.

I went from barely touching the rim to grabbing it with ease.
On my standing vertical I've gained at least 4 inches since the start of my training.

I don't know if its the program or if its just me finally hitting the weights but if you'd like to see my youtube channel name is
"rashond1dunkswilson"

Here's a link to week 1


Never mind i cannot post links yet. But you can always just type in my name on there.

[Zimski]

Hey there! I have a question about 1-leg jump training.

Some background. I play Ultimate Frisbee, but I do not train for it. My dream is to dunk a basketball, although I do not play basketball.
I know it's silly, but I am not an athlete, sport is a hobby, and that's the objective that I have in mind.

I've been using VJB for a couple of years now. Never too thoroughly, I can't get into the habit and start making constant gains. Lately I've had about 10 months without a weight room, only Ultimate Frisbee games. But in the last 2 months, I went back to training and have a very simple plan. I do some extra stuff, like stretching, do some upper body training, and a little plyometrics (generally as warmups), but the basic idea is:

1. Set PRs in the back squat at least once a week
2. Practice actual jumping at least once a week

In the weight room, last week I was able to squat 4x5@115 kg (my BW = 79 kg). This week I increased the weight and went easy with 4x3@120 (will increase the reps until I can do at least 3-4 sets of 5 reps, then move on to 125, etc). 120 kg used to be my 1RM 2 years ago. I could have progressed faster, but as I mentioned, I was previously very unorganised, and couldn't stay with the regime.

So, here I am, progressing with weights again. I can feel that I am becoming more powerful and fast in games. Just as I noticed degradation during spring and summer when I had no weight room training. I usually do jumping sessions before my games. My reach is about 240 cm, standing countermovement vert is a couple cm above the rim (I'd say 307 cm), running 1-leg is only a little higher (maybe 310 max). I never did any 2-leg running jumps, because I thought I should stick to what I've been training (I am good at it if I've been training - that's my thoughts). But I tried running 2-leg jumps, and they seem very natural to me, and I feel so much more powerful, my jump off 2 feet is substantially higher, probably over 315 cm, I can easily hang on the rim.

These are not very accurate measurements, but you get the idea:
Standing ~67 cm
Running 1-leg (what I've always been practicing so much) ~70 cm
Running 2-leg (What I've only just started) ~75 cm

I also tried jumping out of a deep squat and from a chair (so there is no countermovement, only RFD), and its pretty much the same as a countermovement standing jump, and not that far behind the running 1-leg.

Now that got me thinking a couple of things:

1. I am apparently better built for the 2-leg jump.
2. There is some obvious functional flaw, that is likely to do with muscle imbalances, which makes my 1-leg jumps weak. Especially the left leg, which is weaker, I can feel it, it sort of gives during the takeoff sometimes. No pain or anything, but it may be that the ankle and knee extensors are just not strong enough to cope with the forces that my hip extensors are going for.

So, any thoughts, what I can test? Add to my routine? I don't need advise to stick with 2-leg jumps, I will. But I will not just ignore 1-leg jumps, my body is telling me something, and I am planning to find out what it is.

PS After heavy back squats, I always do higher-rep front squatting at the end, I do some posterior chain work as well. Last couple of weeks I've been doing fitball hamstring curls (I can feel them working my hams and glutes a lot), plus I finish off with 2-3 heavy sets of calf raises. If I have another lower body weight room session during the same week, I usually do more power stuff: jump squats with BB, hang power cleans, KB swings. In this case I then do high rep split squats to finish off.

[IN0Mohammad]

Medical student here.
I've been trying to dunk for some time now. I started off a month ago grabbing net, now I can grab the rim.

I am try to get my fingers above the rim so I can be able to dunk a basketball eventually.

I lift weights three times a week, and practice jumping twice a week right after my workouts. Will keep everyone updated.

[kaelyyarel]

Heyy I have a question. I started doing 5x5 StrongLifts like 2 months ago to increase my VJ and strength in general. I feel faster and more explosive, also my vert increased 2.5 inch And I read a while ago that SMIT (supramaximal Interval training) is better than HIIT. A study was made and SMIT athletes performed better than HIIT and continous running in the 3000m trials and 40m sprints : more info here: nicktumminello . com/2014/03/supramaximal-interval-training-vs-high-intensity-interval-training ( I cant post links sorry xD)

The thing is , I am wondering if doing SL 5x5 3 times a week and doing SMIT 2-3 times a week also would be considered as overtraining?

[suchti]

Heyy I have a question. I started doing 5x5 StrongLifts like 2 months ago to increase my VJ and strength in general. I feel faster and more explosive, also my vert increased 2.5 inch And I read a while ago that SMIT (supramaximal Interval training) is better than HIIT. A study was made and SMIT athletes performed better than HIIT and continous running in the 3000m trials and 40m sprints : more info here: nicktumminello . com/2014/03/supramaximal-interval-training-vs-high-intensity-interval-training ( I cant post links sorry xD)

The thing is , I am wondering if doing SL 5x5 3 times a week and doing SMIT 2-3 times a week also would be considered as overtraining?

overtraining is a myth and only occurs in athletes which center their whole life (e.g. professional cross-fitters doing 2-3 workouts a day) around training.

science says you should make sure to squat at least 2x your body weight and around 2.5x for the deadlift before you consider doing plyos. how you reach that goal ist totally up to you. additionally, being lean (+- 10% body fat) is another important factor.

SMIT training is definitely the way to go. when you do HIIT, your body adapts to being slower (since you're more exhausted).

[kaelyyarel]

overtraining is a myth and only occurs in athletes which center their whole life (e.g. professional cross-fitters doing 2-3 workouts a day) around training.

science says you should make sure to squat at least 2x your body weight and around 2.5x for the deadlift before you consider doing plyos. how you reach that goal ist totally up to you. additionally, being lean (+- 10% body fat) is another important factor.

SMIT training is definitely the way to go. when you do HIIT, your body adapts to being slower (since you're more exhausted).

Okay!! Thank you very much ))!!!!

[mertalisera]

Hi guys,

Can anyone comment on my form? I can grab the rim but probably need a couple more inches to dunk.

vid.me/3aW8

27y
5 11
165 lbs

My biggest weakness is weak thighs, glutes (hence one-legged jumper) and not that great flexibility in my lower body.

[juliazheliezko]

Anyone tried this program?

twicethespeed.com/product-detail.php?id=9

They have a sale on goes down to $49 and I was thinking about picking it up.

Seems about as legit as any one of these training systems. "Grow Taller Overnight" made me question this guys product though.

not yet

[kingmode]

might be interesting for some of you:
https://www.defrancostraining.com/ep...tical-jump-qa/

[lakeybalboa]

Question for people who have gone through full plyo programs. How long did you follow it and how much did you add to your vertical?

[guessmyusername]

Hi there. I have somewhat of an in-depth question here. I really have two reasons for asking. I want to improve, obviously, but second, I'm just really curious about some aspects of the SAID principle as well as progressive overload. I hope I don't make anyone mad asking what might be an impractical question.

I want to train my vertical, but it would be best if I could do it with no equipment, for a few reasons, including bad scheduling issues, and lack of a spotter. So, if I were to simply practice jumping, but treat it like a real strength program, could I improve in the long run? Could I increase strength in my legs? My thoughts were along the lines of running 3 weeks on low-rep schemes, and 2 weeks on high reps, since I expect results to stagnate quickly if I just did the same thing for a long time (what with the lack of external resistance). So weeks 1-3 would look something like 4x5 squat jumps, 4x5 broad jumps, and 4x5 standing vertical, focusing on getting as much power and height as possible out of every single rep. I would run it 3 times per week. The following 2 weeks would be the same exercises, but more along the lines of 3x15 squat jumps, 4x10 vertical jumps, and 3x10 broad jumps. Sets would focus on output speed, although I would still try to keep as much power and height as possible. I would perform this twice per week.

As time went on, progression would have to be made, so I was thinking that jumps from a single-leg squat could be incorporated, or real plyometrics could be substituted for simple jump training, etc. Is there any chance this would make for an effective way to train jumping?

[AnthonyJosh]

Hello guys! I'm a newcomer in this forum.. I have a question for you all. How many times a week do you work out on your vertical leap improvement?

[lpknox8]

I've always been a good athlete; fast, good stamina, explosive and decently strong however I've always had pretty average hops.

Past few days I've spent numerous hours looking at programs on how to increase my vert.

Basically what I've gotten:

-Squat & squat variations
-Calf raises
-Deadlift
-Jump rope
-Stretch
-Practice jumping

I went pretty hard yesterday and the day before (though not quite as hard) and I'm feeling sore today. I know stretching is key but when I'm sore like this should I still do squats/lunges/lower body workouts/practice jumping or just rest for the day. Basically I'm asking how often should I be working @ this

Hope to be seeing results soon #IceUp

[suchti]

Hi there. I have somewhat of an in-depth question here. I really have two reasons for asking. I want to improve, obviously, but second, I'm just really curious about some aspects of the SAID principle as well as progressive overload. I hope I don't make anyone mad asking what might be an impractical question.

I want to train my vertical, but it would be best if I could do it with no equipment, for a few reasons, including bad scheduling issues, and lack of a spotter. So, if I were to simply practice jumping, but treat it like a real strength program, could I improve in the long run? Could I increase strength in my legs? My thoughts were along the lines of running 3 weeks on low-rep schemes, and 2 weeks on high reps, since I expect results to stagnate quickly if I just did the same thing for a long time (what with the lack of external resistance). So weeks 1-3 would look something like 4x5 squat jumps, 4x5 broad jumps, and 4x5 standing vertical, focusing on getting as much power and height as possible out of every single rep. I would run it 3 times per week. The following 2 weeks would be the same exercises, but more along the lines of 3x15 squat jumps, 4x10 vertical jumps, and 3x10 broad jumps. Sets would focus on output speed, although I would still try to keep as much power and height as possible. I would perform this twice per week.

As time went on, progression would have to be made, so I was thinking that jumps from a single-leg squat could be incorporated, or real plyometrics could be substituted for simple jump training, etc. Is there any chance this would make for an effective way to train jumping?

The simple, but cruel truth: if you're not genetically gifted, than the only way you will truly improve your vertical is by becoming stronger.

trust me, I shared the same ideals, did a plyo program for 4 weeks and gained pretty much nothing. then started to pick up weight lifting, increased my squat significantly and pushed my standing vert from 20 to 31 inch. I'm currently bulking and trying to increase my power output even further to possess a solid strength base. and that is what I advise you to do, too, if you don't want to be frustrated..

[Sigit1212]

Can u help me?..for mentoring me to practicing vertical jump?

[Sigit1212]

Sounds interesting.. Want to talk with u coach..

[FrostbiteFitnes]

great info guys thanks

[CKDK]

Does anyone here know anything about Vert Shock? My current vertical is 26" naturally with no prior training. I used the online calculator and it said that after vert shock my vertical will be 36". I have read and watched a ton of results and even emailed Vert Shock. This still seems crazy to me though. I can currently touch 8'9" and if this does increase my vertical by 10" then I would be touching 9'7" which is an insane increase. Do you think it could actually increase it this much?

[tproczha]

Does anyone here know anything about Vert Shock? My current vertical is 26" naturally with no prior training. I used the online calculator and it said that after vert shock my vertical will be 36". I have read and watched a ton of results and even emailed Vert Shock. This still seems crazy to me though. I can currently touch 8'9" and if this does increase my vertical by 10" then I would be touching 9'7" which is an insane increase. Do you think it could actually increase it this much?

One of the biggest gimmick when it comes vert training. I am 5'10 and 22 years old when I started training for dunking. I have my progress video on YouTube. Just search MIC How To Dunk

You can subscribe this channel, it's the only channel in YouTube dedicated to show the world the best Asian dunkers. Thanks.

BTW, I am almost 30 now and still able to do windmill dunk with ease.

[CKDK]

One of the biggest gimmick when it comes vert training. I am 5'10 and 22 years old when I started training for dunking. I have my progress video on YouTube. Just search MIC How To Dunk

You can subscribe this channel, it's the only channel in YouTube dedicated to show the world the best Asian dunkers. Thanks.

BTW, I am almost 30 now and still able to do windmill dunk with ease.

I subbed! What is your vertical? What was ur starting verticial. How long did this improvement of vertical take you. Also how did u improve it so much?

[HockeyBacon18]

does squatting low bar vs high bar make a difference and is either better to maximize vertical/speed and explosiveness

[anonymous]

does squatting low bar vs high bar make a difference and is either better to maximize vertical/speed and explosiveness

I suspect it doesn't make a huge difference (i haven't come across any literature examining this question exactly) but if you follow the research the number 1 variable increasing muscle activation is the external load (how much weight you use). I hesitate to recommend low bar squats because it creates a lot of forward trunk lean which can pinch the hip and create more flexion and compression in the lumbar region.

Muscle activation in the loaded free barbell squat: a brief review.
Clark DR1, Lambert MI, Hunter AM.
Author information
Abstract
The purpose of this article was to review a series of studies (n = 18) where muscle activation in the free barbell back squat was measured and discussed. The loaded barbell squat is widely used and central to many strength training programs. It is a functional and safe exercise that is obviously transferable to many movements in sports and life. Hence, a large and growing body of research has been published on various aspects of the squat. Training studies have measured the impact of barbell squat loading schemes on selected training adaptations including maximal strength and power changes in the squat. Squat exercise training adaptations and their impact on a variety of performance parameters, in particular countermovement jump, acceleration, and running speed, have also been reported. Furthermore, studies have reported on the muscle activation of the lower limb resulting from variations of squat depth, foot placement, training status, and training intensity. There have also been studies on the impact of squatting with or without a weight belt on trunk muscle activation (TMA). More recently, studies have reported on the effect of instability on TMA and squat performance. Research has also shown that muscle activation of the prime movers in the squat exercise increases with an increase in the external load. Also common variations such as stance width, hip rotation, and front squat do not significantly affect muscle activation. However, despite many studies, this information has not been consolidated, resulting in a lack of consensus about how the information can be applied. Therefore, the purpose of this review was to examine studies that reported muscle activation measured by electromyography in the free barbell back squat with the goal of clarifying the understanding of how the exercise can be applied.
PMID: 22373894 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]