andro banned

[mulhernm]

I'm curious about andro---are people really upset about the ban? My name is Mike Mulhern and I work for FOX News Channel. I'm working on a story about andro and want to get some opinions---especially from those in the athletic community---whether or not the ban is valid. Are people out there really upset about the ban? Please email me or respond to this posting if you're interested in providing your opinion. Thanks!
Mike Mulhern
FOX News Channel
michael.mulhern@foxnews.com

[WClayB]

Would you like to know what's crazy?? If a supplement product works like it is advertized to work, the FDA has to rush in and shut it down. If the product is TOTALLY WORTHLESS, like the old-fashioned snake oils, the FDA doesn't care and allows it to be sold. Isn't that crazy? What are they protecting????

It is publicity stunting in an election year, I suspect. A big show of how "useful" they are, at the expense of a good community dedicated to health. We're being used as sacrificial sheep for their political gain.

Personally I am tired of the FDA and the government in general finding any and every way they can to regulate, control, dominate every facet of our lives. I just want them to GO AWAY.

BTW certain unnammed atheletes who said that they were using andro etc., are just saying that, at the expense of the supplement community, because they don't want to admit that they were in fact, really using illegal steroids. Which is a whole different world than supplements.

Thanks for asking our side in this, I doubt that the truth will quench the bloodlust going on related to this issue, but it is possible. The politicians and the FDA beaurocrats are only interested in their image, power, control. Not what the supplement community wants.

We want them to leave us alone. We want them to leave alone products that work. I personally might be OK if they went after supplements that did NOT work, which makes more sense!


~C

[ZachG_85]

Well, provided you're valid, hope you don't mind reading...

The ban is one of the most insulting things I've ever heard of. Here we have a government that is, for all intents and purposes, telling me I'm not allowed to do what I want to with my body. Even if the health risks are 10 times worse than the media makes them (obviously they aren't), that isn't the point. I should be ALLOWED to screw up my body as much as I want.

In the middle of an obesity epidemic, with the bulk of the population eating 88 cent double cheeseburgers and drinking super sized sugar water, for some reason those who want to use ephedra to lose weight or andro to build muscle are punished.

In terms of damaging to the body, ephedra and andro are far from the worst. There are people out there drinking robitussin to get high and overdosing on acetaminophen at much higher rates. The rationale that they government is "doing it for our protection" has no merit, because there is so much more that is so much worse.

Again, it's as if they are taking all the things they deem to be bad and putting them on the high shelf, like the American public is a bunch of three year olds. We are adults and should be allowed to do whatever we want to ourselves (no matter how damaging). All the government needs to do in MY mind is set an age requirement to the purchase (18 seems fair), and keep the public educated. Don't demonize these things, it's unnecessary. The FDA should regulate it and make sure the public knows what these compounds do, both the good AND the bad, so people can make their own choice.

I don't like the idea that while there is nothing to stop me from smoking or huffing gasoline (neither of which provide any health benefits), using andro to build a little muscle will now make me a criminal.

My thoughts are a little scattered but I've got places to be right now and can't organize too well.

[midweststunna]

You want to ban ANDRO? The FDA knows its not so bad and they proved that when they told the manufacturer's to prove it was SAFE. If they had any ground to stand on here they could do independant tests to show it is DAMAGING in some way. But of course they'll leave the manufacturer's to their own devices and coincidentally we probably will lose a great supplement which gives 'natural' athletes great gains. Andro gives minimal damage when cycled correctly and a proper post cycle therapy is used. This is utterly ridiculous. Want to ban a killer and life destroyer? BAN CIGARETTES!

[Z3R0-CooL]

i have a feeling that this thread is rather pointless....

no matter what we say the media is just going to bash dietary supplements no matter what.. otherwise they got no story..... i should know cause my dad owns a newspaper...

what is funny is that the media puts creatine in the same category as anabolic steroids.

anyways. if its not pointless here what i believe in short:

if people are allowed to eat Mac Donalds, drink alcohol, smoke and if women are allowed to kill their babies(abortion) and put implants then supplements shouldnt be any different.. why ban andro? i want to have the freedom of choice. i want to take andro and i dont want the goverment to stop me from doing something that i want to do to make my appearance and body better.. by banning prohormones they are just forcing ppl into anabolic steroids..

[Apollo 13]

If they ban andro you will see more ppl using steroids, so I say they should just leave it.

[GUNZOFNAVARONE]

the fda did us a favor, a quicker way to get breasts, other than taking androstenendione, is to pony up and get implants. make sure to include that in your report

[buddha]

mods,

can you guys do an ip check and whois the ip to find if it really is host coming from FOX?

[ke0]

Read around this board a little, you won't find anybody taking andro. It's an antiquated substance that has been far surpassed by many other more powerful compounds. This ban really hasn't done much, except for give the public the impression that the FDA is "cracking down" on steroids and their precursors.

[El Dudereno]

By banning pro-hormones and 'designer' steroids the FDA are only going to cause a lot of people to go and buy real gear.

[waitlifter82]

Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
i have a feeling that this thread is rather pointless....

no matter what we say the media is just going to bash dietary supplements no matter what.. otherwise they got no story..... i

I agree. I have yet to see a news article promoting supplements. They are not bad if taking in moderation and what is recommended. I feel it's the idiots that are taking 3 to 10 times the normal (and safe) dose that lead to such bannings.

What do I think of the banning of andro?? I don't have any problem of banning this particular substance. However, it is what is going to happen in the upcoming years that worries me.

I agree that andro is a dangerous product due to the high rate of conversion to estrogen. However, there are much safer PH's (with proper PCT) that are going to be banned quite soon.

[Aeternal]

If pro hormones are banned I will start spending a lot more time on steroid message boards......

[mulhernm]

To answer some of your questions:
1. I am indeed with FOX News Channel.
2. I do not have a predisposition for/against andro or any other steroid, steroid precursor, or pro hormone.

I'm trying to put together and segment on andro---it's very easy to find people willing to come on camera and bash the substance. In an effort to represent both sides of the issue I'm looking for someone willing to come on camera and make an argument why andro should NOT be banned. Anyone interested?


Mike Mulhern
FOX News Channel
michael.mulhern@foxnews.com

[Number 5]

the current 'ban' (on androstenione alone) is not a big deal in and of itself, except that most of us fear it'll lead to overall ban of all prohormone supplements. some of these are items (dhea for example) are used by elderly for health benefits.

as for atheletes, the 'andros' we use are safe and effective when used properly according to label instructions by healthy individuals. most adults i know around here feel that there should be an age limit to buying the stuff though, and some quality control would be nice.

as for adults, we should have the right to decide what to do with our bodies - i personally do not want the government making those decisions for me, nor do i want to pay 10 times the $ to a doctor to prescribe this stuff to me. finially, i don't smoke, and i consider it unhealthy, but i would still support people's right to decide for themselves whether to smoke or not to smoke.

-5

[pogue]

Originally posted by buddha
mods,

can you guys do an ip check and whois the ip to find if it really is host coming from FOX?

IP shows to be coming from News Corp, Plaza of the Americas New York, NY. FOX = News Corp.

Hopefully this individual is true to his intentions to discuss the other side of the issue, which I am glad to see a major news organization do.

@Mike Mulhern: I don't think you'll find very many people who view androstenedione in a very positive light, since it's no longer used and been replaced with newer generation prohormones without the underlying problems associated with andro. However, we feel that andro is the first domino to fall, and will probably cause the other more well used prohormones be banned along with it.

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by mulhernm
I'm looking for someone willing to come on camera and make an argument why andro should NOT be banned. Anyone interested?


Mike Mulhern
FOX News Channel
michael.mulhern@foxnews.com

You should contact the owner of molecular nutrition, Bill Llewllyn.

[jestros]

Mike, I'm sure you'll be able to find someone to get in front of a camera here, just make sure you pick some smart, we've got alot of bone headz here!
My personal feeling is that the government is meddling in things it has no idea about. More people die from over the counter meds like asprin that andro. People who are looking to improve thier physic shouldn't be punished.
There are dozens of people on this board, myself included who have taken pro-hormones with only minior side effects. (acne, lethargy)
I think we need to ban big macs before we ban any kind of supplements.
I mean jesus, cigarettes are legal right?

[Jesin]

If they ban andro like they did up here in Canada then its going to cause a very high rise of steroid use. It skyrocketed up here. I know a good 20 ppl who use/distribute steroids (and I live in a very small town). They are easier to get more so then andro, and dbols are cheaper then what we'd pay for, for andro and 90% of the time it doesnt get accross the boarder anyways. Thus, andro ban = a high high rise in real gear usage. No doubt.

[bouche_]

MIKE--

pogue points 2 the crux of the matter: androstenedione is worthless 2 the knowledgable user while at the same time a possible ban is ABSOLUTELY UPSETTING!!

andro, as u pop-media outlets erroneously bunch together into 1 group, is outdated and frowned upon here at bb.com cuz of its utter worthlessness.

Mark McGwire DID NOT take androSTENEDIONE.
it is a product that is vastly inferior to others 4 the building of muscle and will not produce such results.

while i DO feel the government has an OBLIGATION 2 protect its citizens from KNOWN harmful agents i likewise KNOW that the government is over-stepping its bounds in this case. period.

can "andro" lead to possible health risks? yes.
should "andro" be regulated? yes.
should buyers of "andro" meet determined requirements? yes.
should "andro" be illegal? no.

would i feel comfortable EDUCATING my own kids about "andro" and then encouraging their use of such products? yes.

Mike- id absolutely go on camera 2 let people know the truth about andro AND ephedra.

btw, its fact that that a ban on andro will lead to a higher consumption of those illegal substances. the internet has been around 2 long and 2 many people KNOW that the stuff is harmless 4 NORMAL, HEALTH, EDUCATED, INDIVIDUALS.

[Mestupt]

Originally posted by bouche'
MIKE--

pogue points 2 the crux of the matter: androstenedione is worthless 2 the knowledgable user while at the same time a possible ban is ABSOLUTELY UPSETTING!!

andro, as u pop-media outlets erroneously bunch together into 1 group, is outdated and frowned upon here at bb.com cuz of its utter worthlessness.

Mark McGwire DID NOT take androSTENEDIONE.
it is a product that is vastly inferior to others 4 the building of muscle and will not produce such results.

while i DO feel the government has an OBLIGATION 2 protect its citizens from KNOWN harmful agents i likewise KNOW that the government is over-stepping its bounds in this case. period.

can "andro" lead to possible health risks? yes.
should "andro" be regulated? yes.
should buyers of "andro" meet determined requirements? yes.
should "andro" be illegal? no.

would i feel comfortable EDUCATING my own kids about "andro" and then encouraging their use of such products? yes.

Mike- id absolutely go on camera 2 let people know the truth about andro AND ephedra.

btw, its fact that that a ban on andro will lead to a higher consumption of those illegal substances. the internet has been around 2 long and 2 many people KNOW that the stuff is harmless 4 NORMAL, HEALTH, EDUCATED, INDIVIDUALS.

bump

[Kledz]

*** if you cannot add anything constructively then be gone from this thread******

[bouche_]

hey Kledz-

Bill Oreilly is a man whom U and I would b wise 2 study from.
forget the fact that u dont agree with him cuz u will learn more from him and an opposing pt of view than from almost any other channel.

[ham2]

Look.
I am convinced the carpet bagging season is open, so no holds barred, right?
On others fronts, they (= Big Brother, meant to "protect us from ourselves " ) are peddling severe laws to "make it more difficult" for example for Mail Order Brides seekers (" as if" ... ).
I mean: they're DESPERATELY SEEKING A WAY OUT of they empeachements & soft spots ( namely public debt; the failure of the "blitzkrieg stretegy "; financial collapses EG Enron; the usual minority struggle etc ).
I am NOT AMERICAN ( I live in Italy now; i have lived In Canada & elsewhere for years ), yet i'm suprised people DID NOT MENTION they recently passed a law to prohibit class actions AGAINST FOOD INDUSTRY.
The "chief of the free world" himself explained in a "come on/get real " manner that food industry ( hence Mac-whatever & all the junk food producers ) is the second largest employer after the government and that playing the devil's advocate to find faults is not a civil way to sort this issue out.
Rather - another "big guy" would add later - it's the private individual who should watch upon himself.
It's a tragic reality - i read - to witness how many obese people are around but making the food industry pay as a scapegoat for what is mainly a lack of self-control, well...
Ok, i am ready to get real.
Replace "food industry" with "ephedra industry" or "prohormones' industry" and you've the best speech we could hold against their ban...from their own mouth.
Releases i mention were all over Yahoo, CNN etc not long ago.

[Kledz]

while thinking about it, I'm actually really surprised an investigative reporter was knowledgeable enough to find his way to these boards, much less do an objective story. How objective it really is, is obviously yet to be determined.

Also If you are serious about finding someone on our side, I hope you go with someone that is both knowledgeable, and has the credentials to back up the truth everyone here already knows. I

ts too bad no matter how hard we fight, justice will be suffocated amongst government and media hype.

[Ming]

What I find most disturbing is that they always mention "anabolic effect" as the main characteristic (or one of them) that makes a product illegal. They don't want us to be able to build muscle, why?

[Kledz]

Originally posted by bouche'
hey Kledz-

Bill Oreilly is a man whom U and I would b wise 2 study from.
forget the fact that u dont agree with him cuz u will learn more from him and an opposing pt of view than from almost any other channel.

You're gonna have to elaborate on that.

[bouche_]

there is no doubt that those with the scientific knowledge would give the supplement community that foothold that it so obviously, yet, needlessly seeks after.

PRO-HORMONES, 1-test, dhea, and steroids HAVE ALL BEEN PROVEN 2B GREATLY EFFECTIVE 4 WHAT THEY WERE DESIGNED 4.

the funniest thing i find about this entire situation is the fact that there IS NOT ONE SCIENTIST WHO CAN DISPROVE WHAT I AM SAYING.

THIS IS AN ONGOING CONTROVERSY AND the average citizen should b made aware.

[bouche_]

Kledz-

let me demonstrate

YOU R WRONG (substitute whatever u want to advance your position)

I AM RIGHT (i will advance the most-needed info 2 prove u wrong)

[size]

The issue is much bigger than just one supplement. If individuals who live in the USA fail to recognize this, then you are blind to the future of the supplement/herbal industry.


Here is some information that relates to anabolic steroids. Much of the typical information is based on incorrect public opinion. Here is just a small example of legitimate medical information:

One text to research in is Sports Endocrinology
by Michelle P. Warren , Naama W. Constantini

Here are some links to studies and these are only a few:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=8855834 --> Conclusion: Supraphysiological doses of testosterone, when administered to normal men in a controlled setting, do not increase angry behavior


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11175645 --> Comment: The histologic findings in our 2 cases and in the few others reported in medical literature are nonspecific and do not prove the cardiac toxicity of AAS


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11153743 --> CONCLUSIONS: Although high-level bodybuilding is associated with impaired vascular reactivity and increased arterial thickening, the use of AAS per se is not associated with significant abnormalities of arterial structure or function

[mulhernm]

Is anyone replying to this thread in favor of allowing steroid use in athletics as long as they are administered by a doctor? Or are ppl here generally in favor of blanket legalization of any and every steroid and steroid like substance? Thank you very much for the lively conversation thus far.
Mike Mulhern
FOX News Channel
michael.mulhern@foxnews.com