AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

i did not totally under your explanation(sorry, not a native English speaker)

for example, for heavy days, my workout sets are( in KG):
Squat set 1 - 10kg || Set 2 -22.5kg || Set 3&4 - 47.5kg
Bench Press set 1 - 10kg || Set 2 -20kg || Set 3&4 - 40kg
Bent Over Row set 1 - 10kg || Set 2 -20kg || Set 3&4 - 40kg

my bar is 10KG
i have only 4 plates of 7.5, many plates of 5 / 2.5 / 1.25
so for every set i have to adjust my weight up, than remove it for doing the next exercise and again adjust up

so i'm not sure what you meant by "you dont have to take off weight"

Make it easy

10 reps for warmup sets all cycle

use the bar for the first warmup set

For the second warmup set, use the same weight all month. The same weight on heavy medium and light. It does not have to be exactly 25% and 50%. It can be 65-70% if you want.


If you are talking about doing all the warmup sets for all exercises before you start working out, that may work. You would have try it out. Allpro is a very fast workout, so it really doesnt matter if you warmup a few minutes before the lift, or 15 minutes before the lift.

[engofis]

Make it easy

10 reps for warmup sets all cycle

use the bar for the first warmup set

For the second warmup set, use the same weight all month. The same weight on heavy medium and light. It does not have to be exactly 25% and 50%. It can be 65-70% if you want.


If you are talking about doing all the warmup sets for all exercises before you start working out, that may work. You would have try it out. Allpro is a very fast workout, so it really doesnt matter if you warmup a few minutes before the lift, or 15 minutes before the lift.

ok so i understand now that warmup doesn't have to be exactly 25%, 50%
but it also doesn't matter regarding the loading and removing of plates
i will still have to change weights for each set and remove the weights for the next exercise, as i'm doing now:
set 1 - 10kg >> add weight for set 2 - 40kg >> add weight to set 3 & 4 - 50kg
remove all the weights and start over for the next exercise..

i don't think i want to test doing all warmup at once before, because it's not certain, it's true that the workout is pretty fast, so i'll spend the extra 10 minutes on this

thank you nightanole

[all pro]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in earlier threads but for those who prefer an app over paper log or spreadsheet, and if you have Android; there's a pretty good free app in the Google play store for AllPro's SBR that I've used a fair amount. Automatically calculates new weights after test week and 100/90/80% throughout the week. I think the app is called AllPro Workout.

WOW I'm infamous....no no I mean famous, ya that's what I meant, famous!

[NicholasMango]

Two more questions:

If someone is weak enough that they are say, benching the bar, or rowing only 55lb are warmups/light days a big deal?
Should I have them bench 45 on all three days? Or how should I handle the light days since I don't have a lighter barbell?


second and this one is for me personally:

I've been doing upright rows instead of the curls as you recommended, but I have discomfort in my wrists and shoulders at the top of the movement (can feel grinding/popping in my shoulders especially.)

Could I substitute say, pullups instead? or should I just go back to curls? or is this discomfort not a big deal and I should just power through it?

[nightanole]

Two more questions:

If someone is weak enough that they are say, benching the bar, or rowing only 55lb are warmups/light days a big deal?
Should I have them bench 45 on all three days? Or how should I handle the light days since I don't have a lighter barbell?


second and this one is for me personally:

I've been doing upright rows instead of the curls as you recommended, but I have discomfort in my wrists and shoulders at the top of the movement (can feel grinding/popping in my shoulders especially.)

Could I substitute say, pullups instead? or should I just go back to curls? or is this discomfort not a big deal and I should just power through it?

When the working weight is around the bar, i have folks warmup with a broom handle or plastic pipe for the first warmup set. You could do 2 sets of this. "mimic the movement with a sub maximal weight". You can strength fast and recover fast, when you are weak, so you may be able to handle heavy heavy heavy for a few cycles till the magical time when you can do 55lbs on heavy day and the bar on light day.


Upright row you do with a bar bell, and tune the grip width so you naturally end the movement with elbows at shoulder level. We do not want the elbows to ears variant.

[all pro]

Two more questions:

If someone is weak enough that they are say, benching the bar, or rowing only 55lb are warmups/light days a big deal?
Should I have them bench 45 on all three days? Or how should I handle the light days since I don't have a lighter barbell?


second and this one is for me personally:

I've been doing upright rows instead of the curls as you recommended, but I have discomfort in my wrists and shoulders at the top of the movement (can feel grinding/popping in my shoulders especially.)

Could I substitute say, pullups instead? or should I just go back to curls? or is this discomfort not a big deal and I should just power through it?

First question first, you could use dumb bells on the lite days or use just the bar on all 3 days. Doing the same weight for all 3 days could be ruff on recovery. For upright rows. Check your form. Make sure the bar stops at chest level and that your elbows are NEVER above your shoulders. Also, I use an E-Z curl bar to do them. Pull ups are not a good substitute because you can't adjust the weight.....unless you plan on cutting off your legs and then reattaching them.

[NicholasMango]

First question first, you could use dumb bells on the lite days or use just the bar on all 3 days. Doing the same weight for all 3 days could be ruff on recovery. For upright rows. Check your form. Make sure the bar stops at chest level and that your elbows are NEVER above your shoulders. Also, I use an E-Z curl bar to do them. Pull ups are not a good substitute because you can't adjust the weight.....unless you plan on cutting off your legs and then reattaching them.

I remember using a curl bar to do them in the past, but I have very limited equipment now since my homegym is little more than a barbell and weight set. (my dumbells are only 6,10 or 16 lbs.)

So I'm stuck between having her do 70% weight on the light days or just doing 45lb on all three days. Not sure which would be better.

[all pro]

I remember using a curl bar to do them in the past, but I have very limited equipment now since my homegym is little more than a barbell and weight set. (my dumbells are only 6,10 or 16 lbs.)

So I'm stuck between having her do 70% weight on the light days or just doing 45lb on all three days. Not sure which would be better.

Go with the heavy and then 75% twice.

[NicholasMango]

Go with the heavy and then 75% twice.

Alright, last question for awhile I swear. lol

Think it's better to do dumbells, or to use a single 35lb plate? (32lb total for dumbells)

[all pro]

Alright, last question for awhile I swear. lol

Think it's better to do dumbells, or to use a single 35lb plate? (32lb total for dumbells)

Plate for the sake of using both arms at the same time as evenly as possible.

[pauly1998]

Are there any disadvantages in doing the floor press instead of the bench press?

[nightanole]

Are there any disadvantages in doing the floor press instead of the bench press?

The pros and cons cancel each other out. If you have really long arms, you might want to rig up a ridgid pad on the floor so you raise your chest to within an inch of the bar.

[all pro]

Are there any disadvantages in doing the floor press instead of the bench press?

It's a partial range of motion used to boost bench press. Some people prefer whats called a board press where you put a 2x4 on your chest and do the lift on a bench. A full range of motion as per the bench press is preferable.

[DylanBX44]

I am still struggling with the SL deadlift, I just do not have the flexibility, I can reach down to above my knee's level, but no where near down to where the bar would be sat on the floor.

I have anterior pelvic tilt, and believe this is where the problem is (hamstings too weak as they're already stretched too far).

From what I have read, stretching my hamstrings will only make the situation worse?

If so, what is the best way to correct this? Isolation work on my glutes?

[all pro]

I am still struggling with the SL deadlift, I just do not have the flexibility, I can reach down to above my knee's level, but no where near down to where the bar would be sat on the floor.

I have anterior pelvic tilt, and believe this is where the problem is (hamstings too weak as they're already stretched too far).

From what I have read, stretching my hamstrings will only make the situation worse?

If so, what is the best way to correct this? Isolation work on my glutes?

The best way to fix it is to be patient.

[DylanBX44]

The best way to fix it is to be patient.

I can be patient, just want to be sure I'm doing the right thing. Shall I continue doing the SL deadlift, with less range of motion, i.e as far down as I can bend over? Then hopefully I should start becoming more flexible?

[all pro]

I can be patient, just want to be sure I'm doing the right thing. Shall I continue doing the SL deadlift, with less range of motion, i.e as far down as I can bend over? Then hopefully I should start becoming more flexible?

That's the plan but don't hyperextend or bounce and hurt yourself. Just a slight stretch. Over time it will get better. I have short hamstrings and it took me YEARS before I was able to do SLDLs while standing on a box and lower the bar all the way to my feet.

[cljolley]

Getting back into this game after another year of procrastination. Allpro, Nightanole, is this program acceptable/can this program be run while actively trying to gain weight rather than cut? I asked this question years ago when I first got started and can't quite recall definitively what was said. Any modifications that I should institute while trying to gain weight on this program?

I weigh 135 pounds, 5'8", male 25 years. I would like to weigh about 155-165 pounds.

[nightanole]

Getting back into this game after another year of procrastination. Allpro, Nightanole, is this program acceptable/can this program be run while actively trying to gain weight rather than cut? I asked this question years ago when I first got started and can't quite recall definitively what was said. Any modifications that I should institute while trying to gain weight on this program?

I weigh 135 pounds, 5'8", male 25 years. I would like to weigh about 155-165 pounds.

You will spend the majority of your lifting career in a surplus. You will spend the majority of allpro in a surplus. The only modifications from the bulk or cut is mainly cardio, most people dont change their diet, or they may go from 300g of carbs down to 200g.

But i would like you to be bmi 24 and 13% at the end of allpro. So yea 155-165lbs. Odds are you will gain 20-25lbs, 15-17 of it will be muscle, and the rest will be fat. There is no way around it. Hell lets say you drew the genetic short stick and 15lbs of muscle and 15lbs of fat, how long would it really take to lose 5-10lbs of fat, a month-6 weeks?

[pauly1998]

In cycle 1 I passed all my lift except for overhead press so I didn't increase the weight on that lift. I passed my bench press but barely so I increased the weight. Yesterday was my cycle 2 week 1 heavy day and although I was able to get 8 reps on the bench press there is no way I would have been able to do 9 reps. Is that normal?

[nightanole]

In cycle 1 I passed all my lift except for overhead press so I didn't increase the weight on that lift. I passed my bench press but barely so I increased the weight. Yesterday was my cycle 2 week 1 heavy day and although I was able to get 8 reps on the bench press there is no way I would have been able to do 9 reps. Is that normal?

Should be able to do 1 set of 10 with the new weight. The scary part is you should already be able to do 2 sets of 9 with the new weight fairly easy(easier than test day), we just give you a week to adapt to the new load.

You sure you didnt pass by having crap form and almost blowing a blood vessel in your eye?

[pauly1998]

Should be able to do 1 set of 10 with the new weight. The scary part is you should already be able to do 2 sets of 9 with the new weight fairly easy(easier than test day), we just give you a week to adapt to the new load.

You sure you didnt pass by having crap form and almost blowing a blood vessel in your eye?

The last rep of the second set probably wasn't a perfect rep but I did get it. I did consider keeping the weight the same. The first set I got done with no problem. Should I continue with this weight and see how week 2 goes?

[nightanole]

The last rep of the second set probably wasn't a perfect rep but I did get it. I did consider keeping the weight the same. The first set I got done with no problem. Should I continue with this weight and see how week 2 goes?

Light day this week do 1 set of 10, if its not a solid set, id drop the weight down to last cycle. If you have to drop the weight, spend this cycle focusing on keeping bar speed high, and rest between sets low on medium and light day. The working weight really doesnt matter much if there a slow down in bar speed. You are basically applying the same amount of newtons to both weights, but the heavier weight is accelerating slower.

[all pro]

Light day this week do 1 set of 10, if its not a solid set, id drop the weight down to last cycle. If you have to drop the weight, spend this cycle focusing on keeping bar speed high, and rest between sets low on medium and light day. The working weight really doesnt matter much if there a slow down in bar speed. You are basically applying the same amount of newtons to both weights, but the heavier weight is accelerating slower.

Another excellent answer. Because I wrote this program for beginners and I wanted to keep it simple, I didn't touch on bar speed. A faster bar speed recruits more fibers because you are producing more force and a heavier weight recruits more fibers because you are producing more force. BUT NEVER use a fast contraction speed unless you are fully warmed up and your form is bullet proof and always lower the bar at a normal controlled speed.

[cljolley]

Another excellent answer. Because I wrote this program for beginners and I wanted to keep it simple, I didn't touch on bar speed. A faster bar speed recruits more fibers because you are producing more force and a heavier weight recruits more fibers because you are producing more force. BUT NEVER use a fast contraction speed unless you are fully warmed up and your form is bullet proof and always lower the bar at a normal controlled speed.

So I'm confused here. Does this mean that if you increased the weight and cannot move the bar at the same speed you were able to at a lower weight, you should not be increasing the weight? Is increased bar speed more important/effective when it comes to progression?

[nightanole]

So I'm confused here. Does this mean that if you increased the weight and cannot move the bar at the same speed you were able to at a lower weight, you should not be increasing the weight? Is increased bar speed more important/effective when it comes to progression?

repping the bar takes 1 second
Repping 135lbs takes 2 seconds
repping 155lbs takes 3 seconds
repping 165lbs takes 4 seconds

There is no point in moving to 155lbs if it slows you way down. You need enough weight on the bar to push as hard as possible. Too light of a weight and you cant apply full force. Too much weight and form degrades.

As far as progression, cycle 2 bar speed should be the same as cycle 3 and 4, etc. It might slow a bit at the beginning of the cycle as you get used to the weight, but if adding weight for 2 cycles cuts your bar speed in half, well you are still applying the same amount of newtons for all 3 cycles, you are not applying progressive overload.

This is why i say dont dog the weight just to get the reps in so you pass.

[all pro]

So I'm confused here. Does this mean that if you increased the weight and cannot move the bar at the same speed you were able to at a lower weight, you should not be increasing the weight? Is increased bar speed more important/effective when it comes to progression?

No. And your question is EXACTLY why I didn't mention bar speed in the original write up. A 1 rep max ala powerlifting takes several seconds to lock out. A speed rep ala Olympic lifting takes a fraction of a second to lock out. Set up correctly they both recruit 100% but they produce a different result. Bar speeds mean nothing to a beginner other than to give you an idea of how hard the rep was. For an experienced lifter when the bar speed slows down we know the 2X fibers have checked out. For those that understand programming that's helpful for tracking progress and setting up the next training cycle. For a beginner non of that matters. With training age it matters.

[cljolley]

repping the bar takes 1 second
Repping 135lbs takes 2 seconds
repping 155lbs takes 3 seconds
repping 165lbs takes 4 seconds

So are you saying this is acceptable, or not acceptable. I'm probably overanalyzing, apologies.

And say, at test day you're doing well, but that last rep comes in and it's a grinder. Should one consider that a pass or a fail?

I guess it would seem you are saying moving the bar at a comfortable and controlled speed is most important...

Sorry, I guess I just fail to understand what your definition of 'dogging' the weight is as far as what is okay and what isnt.

EDIT: I reread what you mentioned about force vs progressive overload. I think I understand. You're saying if you increased the weight and significantly slowed down, you haven't progressed much if at all because the dynamics of force and pressure vs speed have cancelled out. Am I somewhat correct here?

[cljolley]

No. And your question is EXACTLY why I didn't mention bar speed in the original write up. A 1 rep max ala powerlifting takes several seconds to lock out. A speed rep ala Olympic lifting takes a fraction of a second to lock out. Set up correctly they both recruit 100% but they produce a different result. Bar speeds mean nothing to a beginner other than to give you an idea of how hard the rep was. For an experienced lifter when the bar speed slows down we know the 2X fibers have checked out. For those that understand programming that's no helpful for tracking progress and setting up the next training cycle. For a beginner non of that matters. With training age it matters.

I appreciate the reply, so what should I be doing if I find my rep slows down significantly at a higher weight? I would assume that is a good indicator I have gone too heavy, or upped the weight too soon. Correct? I am only just getting back into lifting and my memory is a bit rusty. I'm only benching maybe 100 pounds at this point. Can I assume that when the time comes, and I am able to effectively bench double that, that my time between lock out is going to be similar? Hope this makes sense.

So for example. Working weight for me now is 100 pounds bench press. Bar is in motion for 2 seconds. I weigh 135 pounds. Let's say 6 cycles down the road I can press 170 pounds. Let's say I've gained 30 pounds and now weigh 165. Can I assume that bar speed will be the same or very similar? This is becoming a silly scenario but I'm just trying to understand if I am thinking this through properly.

[all pro]

I appreciate the reply, so what should I be doing if I find my rep slows down significantly at a higher weight? I would assume that is a good indicator I have gone too heavy, or upped the weight too soon. Correct? I am only just getting back into lifting and my memory is a bit rusty. I'm only benching maybe 100 pounds at this point. Can I assume that when the time comes, and I am able to effectively bench double that, that my time between lock out is going to be similar? Hope this makes sense.

So for example. Working weight for me now is 100 pounds bench press. Bar is in motion for 2 seconds. I weigh 135 pounds. Let's say 6 cycles down the road I can press 170 pounds. Let's say I've gained 30 pounds and now weigh 165. Can I assume that bar speed will be the same or very similar? This is becoming a silly scenario but I'm just trying to understand if I am thinking this through properly.

Just keep going. The bar speed will slow down either with fatigue or load. We call those reps grinders. They're good for you! Just don't compromise good form to complete a rep. With high rep sets, above 8 reps, you are getting progressively more fiber recruitment the more the bar slows down. That's a big part of what causes the size and strength adaptation. On the other hand when the weight is at 80% of a 1 rep max, that's approximately an 8 rep max weight or heavier, all fibers are recruited on the very first rep. Therefor when the bar speed slows down it's because fibers are checking out. You can see that these 2 scenarios are opposites and that's why the adaptions are different. To answer your last question, as you become stronger a weight that was a grinder and took 3+ seconds to lock out will become less and less challenging and you will be able to lock it out faster and faster until that weight no longer produces an adaption of any sort. That's why progressive over load is a critical part of programming. If you were squatting 200 pounds for 10 reps last year and you were still squatting 200 pounds for 10 reps now then you couldn't expect to be any bigger or stronger. You would have adapted to the stimulus and stopped. I sure hope I didn't make that too complicated.