AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[GenerationZero]

No warmups are needed other than for bench/row/squat. If you want to do additional warmups feel free to, but we dropped them after the big three due to too many failures from the increased volume, especially on the OHP.

Yep im referring to rows (i would say theyre the same as bent rows) so at present im doing 20 reps of warmups (a bar + XX amount of my working weight, cant remember what it was) then 10 working reps but find the last two reps where im pretty vertical which means im not targeting the right muscle..... so inverted rows was introduced.... so i still need those 20 warmup reps and cant substitute them with the inverted rows?

[nightanole]

Yep im referring to rows (i would say theyre the same as bent rows) so at present im doing 20 reps of warmups (a bar + XX amount of my working weight, cant remember what it was) then 10 working reps but find the last two reps where im pretty vertical which means im not targeting the right muscle..... so inverted rows was introduced.... so i still need those 20 warmup reps and cant substitute them with the inverted rows?

Uhh i never said to swap bent over rows for inverted rows. I said you could do 1 set of inverted rows at the end of the workout for more rowing volume without taxing your back. The inverted rows should be done after the allpro workout, long after you have recovered from bent over rows.

If you are still having trouble with the bent over row, and you think its the warmup, then adjust the warmup. The warmups are not set in stone, they are generic recommendations so n00bs dont spend 10min warming up for a 10min work session. But yes you have a to "mimic" the movement with a sub optimal weight for 2 sets. Inverted rows do not mimic a bent over row, even if they do use the same muscles. You could try 2 sets of just the bar for 10 reps, you could do a plastic pipe for the first set and then your standard warmup weight for the 2nd set. Hell you could add a 3rd warmup of 1 rep of 110% the working weight, that makes the work sets feel lighter.

[GenerationZero]

Uhh i never said to swap bent over rows for inverted rows. I said you could do 1 set of inverted rows at the end of the workout for more rowing volume without taxing your back. The inverted rows should be done after the allpro workout, long after you have recovered from bent over rows.

If you are still having trouble with the bent over row, and you think its the warmup, then adjust the warmup. The warmups are not set in stone, they are generic recommendations so n00bs dont spend 10min warming up for a 10min work session. But yes you have a to "mimic" the movement with a sub optimal weight for 2 sets. Inverted rows do not mimic a bent over row, even if they do use the same muscles. You could try 2 sets of just the bar for 10 reps, you could do a plastic pipe for the first set and then your standard warmup weight for the 2nd set. Hell you could add a 3rd warmup of 1 rep of 110% the working weight, that makes the work sets feel lighter.

Sorry i forgot to state that i do 2 sets of bent rows - so essentially im doing the same/as the program intended + inverted rows after the program.

Hell you could add a 3rd warmup of 1 rep of 110% the working weight, that makes the work sets feel lighter.

Now this is what i think would help. I noticed doing the additional 3 heavy reps has helped so i will bring this in. You say 1 rep but what if i'm more vertical than required, would it be ok to continue and attempt to resolve this over the next few sessions?

[nightanole]

Sorry i forgot to state that i do 2 sets of bent rows - so essentially im doing the same/as the program intended + inverted rows after the program.



Now this is what i think would help. I noticed doing the additional 3 heavy reps has helped so i will bring this in. You say 1 rep but what if i'm more vertical than required, would it be ok to continue and attempt to resolve this over the next few sessions?

I dont care how vertical or horizontal you are, as long as the bar hits within 3" of where it hits on the bench press you are gold. Bonus points if your back angle stays the same across all reps.

[mpizzle421]

So I've finished week 2 of my first cycle.
Squat - 170lbs
Bench - 150lbs
Trap Bar Row (recommended due to tendency to get btennis elbow) - Started at 95lbs. I have to drop this down to 85lbs. I had the bar + 2 25lbs plates and I didn't have great form with 9 reps.
OHP - Started at 95lbs and had to drop to 85lbs today. Question on this below.
SLDL - 155lbs
Calf raise - 200lbs
Curl - 70lbs

Questions

1. My last attempt at allpro was halted by knee pain. Squatting 3x per week was a challenge. My last program was a brosplit with a heavy volume leg day and the extra rest gave me better time for recovery. I've watched the Rippetoe video and think I have decent form but get nagging pain in the front of my knee. I used compression knee sleeves which seemed to help today. Any thoughts?

2. My row is pathetic. Your standard is row and bench should be equal-ish. Mine is not. I'm using the trap bar and having 25lbs on each side proved too heavy so I need to bump it down. Weird because I was doing a 60lbs dumbbell row. Any thoughts? Any utility I should be adding?

3. OHP - I started week one sitting and started today standing. I'm not as strong from a standing position it seems. Is there a preference for this program? Also, how much depth? I had a Chiro recommend not going below parallel with shoulders at the bottom of the movement (which is eyes for me) but the Rippetoe video seems to show the movement going down to upper chest. Any suggestion here?

4. Finally, SLDL - watching Ripptoe I see he says to start from the floor. Totally different than the example video in this thread? What should I be doing for this program?

[nightanole]

So I've finished week 2 of my first cycle.
Squat - 170lbs
Bench - 150lbs
Trap Bar Row (recommended due to tendency to get btennis elbow) - Started at 95lbs. I have to drop this down to 85lbs. I had the bar + 2 25lbs plates and I didn't have great form with 9 reps.
OHP - Started at 95lbs and had to drop to 85lbs today. Question on this below.
SLDL - 155lbs
Calf raise - 200lbs
Curl - 70lbs

Questions

1. My last attempt at allpro was halted by knee pain. Squatting 3x per week was a challenge. My last program was a brosplit with a heavy volume leg day and the extra rest gave me better time for recovery. I've watched the Rippetoe video and think I have decent form but get nagging pain in the front of my knee. I used compression knee sleeves which seemed to help today. Any thoughts?

2. My row is pathetic. Your standard is row and bench should be equal-ish. Mine is not. I'm using the trap bar and having 25lbs on each side proved too heavy so I need to bump it down. Weird because I was doing a 60lbs dumbbell row. Any thoughts? Any utility I should be adding?

3. OHP - I started week one sitting and started today standing. I'm not as strong from a standing position it seems. Is there a preference for this program? Also, how much depth? I had a Chiro recommend not going below parallel with shoulders at the bottom of the movement (which is eyes for me) but the Rippetoe video seems to show the movement going down to upper chest. Any suggestion here?

4. Finally, SLDL - watching Ripptoe I see he says to start from the floor. Totally different than the example video in this thread? What should I be doing for this program?

1) box squats are the knees friend, if your knees dont travel forward, you will have happy knees:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP2b1KnLIUw&t=1s

2) Row "should be" within 20% of bench, some are higher some are lower. But everyone starts off with an imbalance. The trap bar for tennis elbow is excellent, but you will be rowing 5-10% less weight just due to mechanics.

3) "bar below chin". If you dont have the range of motion, you have to use a thumbs under false grip. Due to wrist damage, i can not do the rippetoe version, its just too much tension at the bottom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_WPH1NYPxc

4)
Start with the normal deadlift lockout position
lower weight and bend knees as much as you like as long as it doesnt cause hip drop. Its "stiff leg" not "straight leg"
once hamstrings go tight, pull back hard and lock out

At the beginning you will be inflexible and odds are cant get much past your knees. And since you are not allowed hip drop the bar will be more over your toes, not gliding down your shins. This also means the bar will be farther away from you and you will be SLDL with less weight that you squat, else you suck at squatting or are not SLDL correctly.

[nightanole]

Night, I'm making slow but steady progress towards my BF% goal of 13% I went from about 22% to about 18% by cutting about 300 calories per day off my diet (about 1800 per day total calories) and doing 2-3 sessions of medium cardio per week. My weight went from 170 lbs down to 165. My question is should I still continue my reduced calorie diet until I hit the target 13%?

Once I hit 13% BF do I ramp up my caloric intake to bulk up a bit or just maintain?

You have 2 choices:
continue the cut to 13%, then slow bulk to bmi 24
Slow bulk to 175-180lbs while maintaining 18%, and then cutting down to 13%, which should end up being bmi 24

Both will take the same amount of time. In any case you should be moving up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You do not want to recomp(stay the same weight while reducing body fat) on allpro, it never works.

[mpizzle421]

Quick question... I've been doing some reading of this thread to extract answers to questions I have without having to ask them.

I did happen to see a comment you mentioned regarding assisted chin up machines. Out of curiosity, would that be superior to the trap bar row? I pathetically can't do a chin up at this point so would obviously need the machine in this case.

[nightanole]

Quick question... I've been doing some reading of this thread to extract answers to questions I have without having to ask them.

I did happen to see a comment you mentioned regarding assisted chin up machines. Out of curiosity, would that be superior to the trap bar row? I pathetically can't do a chin up at this point so would obviously need the machine in this case.

Its not superior, its just from a different angle vs the bent over row. The chinup takes the back out of the equation, so its great for adding more volume without taxing lower back recovery. The bent over row (either hex or traditional bar) will produce more "meat" vs the chinup since its more full body.

[RapidFail]

You have 2 choices:
continue the cut to 13%, then slow bulk to bmi 24
Slow bulk to 175-180lbs while maintaining 18%, and then cutting down to 13%, which should end up being bmi 24

Both will take the same amount of time. In any case you should be moving up or down at least 1kg per cycle. You do not want to recomp(stay the same weight while reducing body fat) on allpro, it never works.

Curious as to how you get these numbers - when I started lifting I was skinny fat with a BMI of 22.5 and around 20%bf (skinny arms and legs, bloated belly, love handles). A few bulk/cut cycles later and my BMI is now just over 23 and body fat around 16-17%. In my profile pic (taken this June), I estimate my bf to be around 15% and my BMI was just under 22.

[nightanole]

Curious as to how you get these numbers - when I started lifting I was skinny fat with a BMI of 22.5 and around 20%bf (skinny arms and legs, bloated belly, love handles). A few bulk/cut cycles later and my BMI is now just over 23 and body fat around 16-17%. In my profile pic (taken this June), I estimate my bf to be around 15% and my BMI was just under 22.

Most "non fats" are like you, they ate just enough to maintain a normal body weight, and are around 22% body fat.

But unless you are very genetically gifted, you will not hit BMI 25 at 13% your first year.

Most males can only gain 20-35lbs of muscle during the first 10 years of lifting if they start off as "normal", and its based on height and joint size.

You basically can gain half of that for each year you lift, and gain half of whats left for each year you lift.

so lets say you are normal and are in the middle at 25 lbs

first year you can gain 12.5lbs
second year 6.25 lbs
third year 3.125lbs
forth year 1.5lbs
etc.

The same goes with strength gains, you will not be adding a plate to your deadlift every year. Hell we watched omarisuf in real time on you tube. He was normal and had a 4 plate deadlift when he started youtube after a year of lifting. 5 years later he had a 550lb, and 5 years later he had a 600lb. And that was dam good progress.

[Oboy5]

Hey Guys,

I'm enjoying the All Pro training so far!

I've completed a cycle, now I'm on cycle 2/ week 4.

I need to have a laser eye operation (Lasik, for those who knows) on wednesday, I'll probably take a week off as the doctor told me I need a week break from the gym.

Question: Owing that I'm gonna complete week 4 on wednesday 9, should I start from the beginning of the cycle on week 5 (wednesday 16)? Or am I "allowed" to continue my progression?

Thanks

[nightanole]

Hey Guys,

I'm enjoying the All Pro training so far!

I've completed a cycle, now I'm on cycle 2/ week 4.

I need to have a laser eye operation (Lasik, for those who knows) on wednesday, I'll probably take a week off as the doctor told me I need a week break from the gym.

Question: Owing that I'm gonna complete week 4 on wednesday 9, should I start from the beginning of the cycle on week 5 (wednesday 16)? Or am I "allowed" to continue my progression?

Thanks

If you are on week 4, and take a week of rest, and then do "test day" it will be a false test since you just stripped all the fatigue away.

Best bet is to start over after your eye guy says you wont blow a blood vessel, on week 9, which is the official start of the cycle.

You can always try to reduce rest times on medium and light day to increase intensity on the second set. So you are not "throwing away" 4 weeks of work. Plus you may find you can bump higher than the minimum 10%.

[Oboy5]

If you are on week 4, and take a week of rest, and then do "test day" it will be a false test since you just stripped all the fatigue away.

Best bet is to start over after your eye guy says you wont blow a blood vessel, on week 9, which is the official start of the cycle.

You can always try to reduce rest times on medium and light day to increase intensity on the second set. So you are not "throwing away" 4 weeks of work. Plus you may find you can bump higher than the minimum 10%.

Thanks! After the training today I feel that anyway it won't be too bad to reset, as I can't really complete my 11 sets on the benchpress (I did 10).

[mpizzle421]

I've had some issues with hip stiffness/pain as of late. I can't say for certain but suspect that the SLDL may be triggering it.

Typically I feel it up front right at the belt line (above both legs). Anything stupid I could be doing?

[nightanole]

I've had some issues with hip stiffness/pain as of late. I can't say for certain but suspect that the SLDL may be triggering it.

Typically I feel it up front right at the belt line (above both legs). Anything stupid I could be doing?

Well at no point in the entire program should you have a non neutral back.

In the SLDL some people lock there knees and dont push there butt back...

Or like most, its revealed in a lift, but caused in another lift. In the bent over row are you making your thorax as thick as possible, doing the best impression of a pregnant woman? Or are you sucking all your internal organs into your rib cage and then bracing for a punch?

In squats are you doing the right stance "for you"? Some people need more or less toe out, some need to be wider stance, so narrower, hip structure can vary alot.


But if you think everything is within tolerance i can recommend 2 things:

Bent knee Hanging leg raises, some when knee is at belt line(like you are squatting a little less deep than normal), 1-2 sets of 30-60 seconds. You will "know" because the next day you will realize you have lower abs
Band traction of the ankles before the warmup squats, inbetween the warmup sets, and inbetween warmups and work sets. Theses should be quick, like 10-20 seconds per ankle. OmarIsuf on youtube has a few great videos on this.

[mzimm15]

OK. I have been doing the 115% 3 reps on the bench/squat/row as you suggested. I definitely seem some progress and also experiencing some "good feeling" soreness the next day. Should I limit the 115% to one set of 3 or is there any advantage to doing 2 sets?

When I'm doing the 3 reps of 115% does it matter if I do it right after each respective exercise or should I wait until after the very last portion of AP for the day which is calf raises?

[nightanole]

When I'm doing the 3 reps of 115% does it matter if I do it right after each respective exercise or should I wait until after the very last portion of AP for the day which is calf raises?

After the allpro workout. Before or after calfs i dont care, but needs to be done after OHP and SLDL at least. CUrls are a wild card and Calfs are cosmetic and skippable.

[mzimm15]

After the allpro workout. Before or after calfs i dont care, but needs to be done after OHP and SLDL at least. CUrls are a wild card and Calfs are cosmetic and skippable.

I'm very glad I asked the question. Couldn't figure out why I was failing to complete the OHP and SLDL but the fact I was doing the 115% after each final set rather than at the end would make complete sense.

[nightanole]

I'm very glad I asked the question. Couldn't figure out why I was failing to complete the OHP and SLDL but the fact I was doing the 115% after each final set rather than at the end would make complete sense.

On the surface alot of people think allpro looks too easy. However once you are in the groove, well allpro 1.0 had warmups for each exercise, and too many people where failing lifts after bench/row/squat. Its why i kind of laugh when new users want to add 3+ exercises to the allpro workout when they havent even passed one test day yet

[GenerationZero]

No i meant as an accessory at the end of the workout. So if heavy day is 100kg, at the end of each session (heavy/medium/light) you do 2-3 reps that are somewhere between 110kg-125kg.

Today's workout (11 reps light day) I was failing on the accessory lifts. I just didn't have enough to get 3 reps done.... I also felt this week's workouts are lot more difficult and "might" fail next week test day on curls..... I know you said to redo the cycle if I do but if I don't fail test day, then I dont think I can add another 10% as I'm already struggling with the accessory lifts which is 10% additional of my heavy day.... What do you reckon?

Similar question for squats. I'm currently doing 4-8 reps but again I think adding another 10% could be a struggle at this stage? Cheers

[nightanole]

Today's workout (11 reps light day) I was failing on the accessory lifts. I just didn't have enough to get 3 reps done.... I also felt this week's workouts are lot more difficult and "might" fail next week test day on curls..... I know you said to redo the cycle if I do but if I don't fail test day, then I dont think I can add another 10% as I'm already struggling with the accessory lifts which is 10% additional of my heavy day.... What do you reckon?

Similar question for squats. I'm currently doing 4-8 reps but again I think adding another 10% could be a struggle at this stage? Cheers

That is the point. You dont add 10% and assume in 5 weeks you will be 10% stronger again. You add 10% because you can now handle the existing weight. If you add 10% you will have about 3 weeks at the same stress level (test week, 8 rep week which is maybe 5% easier, and 9 rep week, which at 110% is as hard as the last 12 rep test week, but lower volume). At some point you will get so strong you wont be able to pass even every 3rd test day. Think about it, if you fail 2 of every 3 test days, thats still well over 30% progression for the year. That is double the progression speed of the average intermediate lifter.

So dont know what you want me to say, the stronger you get, the slower you will progress. If you get to the point you can bench 100kg for 10 reps, a year later you might be doing 110-115kg, and that would be dam good progress. However if you are benching the bar, odds are you will be benching 1 plate within 6 months.

[GenerationZero]

That is the point. You dont add 10% and assume in 5 weeks you will be 10% stronger again. You add 10% because you can now handle the existing weight. If you add 10% you will have about 3 weeks at the same stress level (test week, 8 rep week which is maybe 5% easier, and 9 rep week, which at 110% is as hard as the last 12 rep test week, but lower volume). At some point you will get so strong you wont be able to pass even every 3rd test day. Think about it, if you fail 2 of every 3 test days, thats still well over 30% progression for the year. That is double the progression speed of the average intermediate lifter.

So dont know what you want me to say, the stronger you get, the slower you will progress. If you get to the point you can bench 100kg for 10 reps, a year later you might be doing 110-115kg, and that would be dam good progress. However if you are benching the bar, odds are you will be benching 1 plate within 6 months.

So your saying I'm still going on the right direction even if I fail test day for curls and redo that cycle again? No need to adjust anything as that's part of the program?

[nightanole]

So your saying I'm still going on the right direction even if I fail test day for curls and redo that cycle again? No need to adjust anything as that's part of the program?

You only redo the curl weight, any lifts you pass on you bump the 10+ %. And if you pass rows and fail curls, bicep volume will still increase next cycle. You may find next cycle you fail rows but pass curls.

Nobody is going to start off with a weight they can barely do 10 reps on after learning the lift, and pass every test day for 6-9 cycles straight, thats impossible. Even the F5 and strong lifts guys, once you are in the groove, those guys are failing and resetting every 4-6 weeks within 90 days of starting with just the bar.

[art10m]

I'm having some doubts about the number of sets. I've jut completed Cycle 3 and all this time I was doing 2 warm up sets for every exercise. Now started Cycle 4 and its getting difficult (and long) to do 4 sets for each exercise (2 warmups and 2 work sets). So I'm thinking to follow the instructions and remove warm-up sets for remaining 4 exercises.

I did them to rump up the sets rather than to warm-up, without warm-up sets it just feels like there are too little sets to do in the whole workout. Just need a word of reassurance that it is the right thing to do?
Thanks!

[nightanole]

I'm having some doubts about the number of sets. I've jut completed Cycle 3 and all this time I was doing 2 warm up sets for every exercise. Now started Cycle 4 and its getting difficult (and long) to do 4 sets for each exercise (2 warmups and 2 work sets). So I'm thinking to follow the instructions and remove warm-up sets for remaining 4 exercises.

I did them to rump up the sets rather than to warm-up, without warm-up sets it just feels like there are too little sets to do in the whole workout. Just need a word of reassurance that it is the right thing to do?
Thanks!

So you ran allpro 1.0 and did warmups for every set, and found that was too taxing. So now you want to run up to date allpro, that originally you thought didnt have enough volume

But yes we dropped warmups for the last 4 lifts because lots of people like you were failing (especially the OHP). You can always add volume/lifts after the core workout, but the core workout is an arse kicker after you are in the groove.

[fattofame3]

Hello Guys,

I have just started doing ALlPros and chose some weight which I thought was good to complete a cycle with but I guess not. I am finding it hard to get the reps in during the second sets of my squats. Squats weight is 66lbs excluding the bar. My question is do I adjust the weight where I can not easily but barely do 10 reps and chose that weight? Second, what do I do if I fail one of my sets further into the cycle where I am meant to do 10 reps and I fail? Do I reset the whole thing again or do I just wait until test week in which I try to lift the weight for 15 reps? Cheers. I am my second week in and am liking this program so far hence asking these dumb questions so I can rinse and repeat the program in the future, Cheers again

P.S I have and am cutting hence my weight is quite low in terms of lifts.

[RapidFail]

Is there any particular reason for the order of heavy-medium-light lifting days? Would it be OK to do it light-medium-heavy?

I'm going to be coming back to lifting after a month off post surgery and I will be cutting, so I'm considering doing All Pro for a while (haven't done it before).

Pre-surgery my lifts were:
Squat 5 x 149lb
Bench 10 x 110lb
1-arm row 10 x 53lb (haven't done upright rows)
OHP 8 x 77lb
RDL 8 x 187lb (haven't done SLDL)
Curls 12 x 52lb (think I'll do and-assisted chin-ups instead)
Calf Raises 8 x 198lb

I've been advised to ease back into lifting, so was thinking it might make sense to start with a light workout. Not sure what weights I should start with too - was thinking of calculating my 10rm based on the lifts listed above and reducing by 10%. Does that sound OK?

[nightanole]

Is there any particular reason for the order of heavy-medium-light lifting days? Would it be OK to do it light-medium-heavy?

I'm going to be coming back to lifting after a month off post surgery and I will be cutting, so I'm considering doing All Pro for a while (haven't done it before).

Pre-surgery my lifts were:
Squat 5 x 149lb
Bench 10 x 110lb
1-arm row 10 x 53lb (haven't done upright rows)
OHP 8 x 77lb
RDL 8 x 187lb (haven't done SLDL)
Curls 12 x 52lb (think I'll do and-assisted chin-ups instead)
Calf Raises 8 x 198lb

I've been advised to ease back into lifting, so was thinking it might make sense to start with a light workout. Not sure what weights I should start with too - was thinking of calculating my 10rm based on the lifts listed above and reducing by 10%. Does that sound OK?

This program is fatigue based, so you cant really compare "heavy" day to say a 3x5 program heavy day.

Heavy day prefatigues you for medium day. The joke is if you can do 3 heavies a week you are not going heavy enough.
Medium day requires the most effort, because you are still recovering from heavy day.
Light day is a mini deload for your connective tissue, since allpro does not have a deload protocol

I would start off with your 12-14 rep max for a guaranteed pass and to ease back into it. If "test day" feels real easy you are free to bump 15-25% for the following cycle for lifts that you pass. 10% is the min for the pattern to work, but some double the squat weight in 3 cycles just by practicing the lift that they have not done much before.

For medium and light day you can reduce the rest time to 30-60 seconds to make the second set more difficult. Many do this for the first few weeks of each cycle.

[nightanole]

Hello Guys,

I have just started doing ALlPros and chose some weight which I thought was good to complete a cycle with but I guess not. I am finding it hard to get the reps in during the second sets of my squats. Squats weight is 66lbs excluding the bar. My question is do I adjust the weight where I can not easily but barely do 10 reps and chose that weight? Second, what do I do if I fail one of my sets further into the cycle where I am meant to do 10 reps and I fail? Do I reset the whole thing again or do I just wait until test week in which I try to lift the weight for 15 reps? Cheers. I am my second week in and am liking this program so far hence asking these dumb questions so I can rinse and repeat the program in the future, Cheers again

P.S I have and am cutting hence my weight is quite low in terms of lifts.

Reduce weight 5-7.5% on the lifts you are struggling with. This will make a guaranteed pass and "some" progression for next cycle when you will be in the groove. Dont expect to pass every lift every cycle when on a cut.

For a deep cut you can under eat to the point where you only fail lifts on 11-12 rep weeks. If you are failing during 10 rep week you are going to start slowly lose muscle mass.

The starting diet for most folk is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs.


Recommended cardio cutting or not is 3 x 10k jogs per week. AKA "something" you can sustain for at least 45min without resting, even if you do it in 20-30min bouts. So you are talking about 2 hours ish of cardio per week, about the same amount as you will be dedicating to allpro.