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  • I agree, I think it's impossible (or at least,...

    I agree, I think it's impossible (or at least, I've never seen a convincing reason) to make the jump from all of these logic-centered arguments about causality, time, existence/ontology, etc., to the...
  • genuine liberty will only come when we move past...

    genuine liberty will only come when we move past capitalism
  • But God would have to exist outside of spacetime,...

    But God would have to exist outside of spacetime, so we can never empirically observe God in the same way we can anything else. Meaning the only way you can make conclusions about his existence is...
  • When you go into nonsense theism...

    When you go into nonsense theism god-answers-my-prayers stuff then yah. But I guess if we're just talking about the proximate cause, you can make a case for it using pure logic without having to...
  • I enjoy your posts wincel but please use...

    I enjoy your posts wincel but please use paragraphs

    I agree that the case for theism is especially poor. I think, whilst the logical arguments for a proximate cause (cosmological, teleological,...
  • That's why I said the KCA comes apart because its...

    That's why I said the KCA comes apart because its premises are unsubstantiated when you look into it deeply. On the surface, yes it seems like the universe has a beginning - modern cosmology and our...
  • Not really. The argument says that anything that...

    Not really. The argument says that anything that HAS a beginning must have a cause that caused it to begin to exist (ie. it could have either existed or not existed, but something brought it into...
  • Never formally no, just as a pastime. As for new...

    Never formally no, just as a pastime. As for new atheism, never really identified with the movement much - I think most of them are still pretty relevant when discussing the negative social...
  • The KCA states that everything that begins to...

    The KCA states that everything that begins to exist has to have a cause. Not that everything has to have a cause. Since proponents of the KCA believe that the universe definitively had a beginning,...
  • The premise of the argument is derived from...

    The premise of the argument is derived from scientific theory - ie. that the universe had a beginning. As I said, this is an oversimplified misunderstanding of exactly what big bang cosmology tells...
  • I was playing devils advocate like I said, but I...

    I was playing devils advocate like I said, but I guess the reason theists home in on that point is that modern cosmology appears to suggest a past-finite universe that had a beginning (that isn't...
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    hes a decent dancer lol but why dance when its...

    hes a decent dancer lol

    but why dance when its all about the face
  • It's not that it doesn't have to conform to logic...

    It's not that it doesn't have to conform to logic period, it's just that it doesn't have to conform to the observed everyday logic which it derives its first premise from. The first premise of the...
  • Causality as referred to in the KCA makes...

    Causality as referred to in the KCA makes inferences from objects within the universe, all of which are creation ex-materia or essentially rearrangement of pre-existing matter. We don't know anything...
  • Playing devils advocate here, the infinite...

    Playing devils advocate here, the infinite regress problem only applies to things which exist contingently - that is, they either could have or could not have existed. Most theists will tell you that...
  • This is nothing other than the cosmological...

    This is nothing other than the cosmological argument/proximate cause.

    Couple things worth noting:

    1) The idea that everything that begins to exist has to have a cause is simply derived from...
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    And? What does this have to do with autonomy?

    And? What does this have to do with autonomy?
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    https://media.giphy.com/media/a3zqvrH40Cdhu/giphy....

    https://media.giphy.com/media/a3zqvrH40Cdhu/giphy.gif
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    Yes and there is still no medical precedent that...

    Yes and there is still no medical precedent that would force someone to give up part of their body to save someone else under any circumstances, even if they already had the tube in their arm. If the...
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    I treat patients every day IRL and this is...

    I treat patients every day IRL and this is literally not how anything works in the medical field. Provided they have mental capacity, if they want to get up and leave halfway through a procedure,...
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