I'll get it as soon as it's safe. I don't even feel vaccinations now lol.
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I'll get it as soon as it's safe. I don't even feel vaccinations now lol.
[QUOTE=GrouchyUSMC;1653029293][url="https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635"]Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial[/url][/QUOTE]
That's interesting, but it's also why we do on site monitoring, off site monitoring, data reconciliation, listing reviews, and a lot of other things. It's how we catch the PD's sites miss, issues with the data, and other problems. Some of the claims are interesting, but they're far too general for me to know if they're actually significantly different from what we typically see on a trial. Any time you have thousands of subjects enrolling quickly there will be errors, add in that their follow up is complicated by an ongoing pandemic and a desire to reduce their exposure to a clinical setting and this sounds possible. But, it doesn't necessarily affect the data integrity in a statistically significant way. In fact, the ones mentioned that could be related to efficacy seem likely to either lead to a decrease efficacy or not affect the efficacy. Anything related to safety is always concerning and that gets reviewed, but even if their auditors caught delays, they would get included eventually and still be noted and included in the data. We won't hear about the results of the site audits and probably not the regulatory inspections, but having witnessed and been involved in several I can tell you they're detailed and can be very hard on the entity getting audited or inspected.
The outcome won't affect us or what we know about the vaccines though.
[url]https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/fact-check-report-questioning-pfizer-trial-shouldnt-undermine-confidence-in-vaccines/[/url]
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1653045393]That's interesting, but it's also why we do on site monitoring, off site monitoring, data reconciliation, listing reviews, and a lot of other things. It's how we catch the PD's sites miss, issues with the data, and other problems. Some of the claims are interesting, but they're far too general for me to know if they're actually significantly different from what we typically see on a trial. Any time you have thousands of subjects enrolling quickly there will be errors, add in that their follow up is complicated by an ongoing pandemic and a desire to reduce their exposure to a clinical setting and this sounds possible. But, it doesn't necessarily affect the data integrity in a statistically significant way. In fact, the ones mentioned that could be related to efficacy seem likely to either lead to a decrease efficacy or not affect the efficacy. Anything related to safety is always concerning and that gets reviewed, but even if their auditors caught delays, they would get included eventually and still be noted and included in the data. We won't hear about the results of the site audits and probably not the regulatory inspections, but having witnessed and been involved in several I can tell you they're detailed and can be very hard on the entity getting audited or inspected.
The outcome won't affect us or what we know about the vaccines though.
[url]https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/fact-check-report-questioning-pfizer-trial-shouldnt-undermine-confidence-in-vaccines/[/url][/QUOTE]
Didn't Trump declare CBS as fake news though?
[QUOTE=mgftp;1653049153]Didn't Trump declare CBS as fake news though?[/QUOTE]
Was that an executive order or something he declared back when he was acting as ruler of the GOP?
At this point it's a very small minority that thinks he retains even the second of those appointments. I do wonder if there's an heir apparent?!
[QUOTE=mgftp;1653049153]Didn't Trump declare CBS as fake news though?[/QUOTE]
Trump started the entire “operation warp speed” didn’t he? That should be reason enough to avoid it. Lol. Plus the most popular President in the history of the country and his overwhelmingly likable VP expressed their concerns with the Trump vaccines.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653057043]Trump started the entire “operation warp speed” didn’t he? That should be reason enough to avoid it. Lol. Plus the most popular President in the history of the country and his overwhelmingly likable VP expressed their concerns with the Trump vaccines.[/QUOTE] well as soon as Brandon got in then the Vaxes were deemed safe and effective. Amazing how those shots went from Poison to amazing overnight
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653057043]Trump started the entire “operation warp speed” didn’t he? That should be reason enough to avoid it. Lol. Plus the most popular President in the history of the country and his overwhelmingly likable VP expressed their concerns with the Trump vaccines.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, many of us wanted to see who dropped like flies from the vaxx and when that didn't happen, we lined up to get it.
Not so scary,lol.
[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1653063873]Honestly, many of us wanted to see who dropped like flies from the vaxx and when that didn't happen, we lined up to get it.
Not so scary,lol.[/QUOTE]
I dunno bud, I'm dead.
[QUOTE=Tommy W.;1653061883]well as soon as Brandon got in then the Vaxes were deemed safe and effective. Amazing how those shots went from Poison to amazing overnight[/QUOTE]
It was a strange coincidence on the approval, but there’s always lots of coincidences…
[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1653063873]Honestly, many of us wanted to see who dropped like flies from the vaxx and when that didn't happen, we lined up to get it.
Not so scary,lol.[/QUOTE]
Yeah certainly not killing throngs of people and helping some. Our numbers are skyrocketing, so it’s not working too well right now…Evidently Cook county (Chicagoland) is starting a vaccine mandate for gyms, restaurants, entertainment etc etc. The good thing is killing more private sector businesses by causing patrons to go somewhere else, like 20 minutes away to a red county without a mandate, will help a little with inflation.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653065743]It was a strange coincidence on the approval, but there’s always lots of coincidences…
.[/QUOTE]Yeah strange, huh....
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653057043]Trump started the entire “operation warp speed” didn’t he? [/QUOTE]
you just found that out?
Regardless of your thoughts on COVID, politics, or vaccines, thank you for the entertaining and enlightening conversations here, and I hope all of you have a happy, healthy, and wonderful Christmas weekend.
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1653109993]Regardless of your thoughts on COVID, politics, or vaccines, thank you for the entertaining and enlightening conversations here, and I hope all of you have a happy, healthy, and wonderful Christmas weekend.[/QUOTE]
You as well enjoy the weekend and just for laughs, doh!
Covid deaths in the US spike 50% to 3,354 in a day as Omicron cases jump 45% and push COVID infections to near record of 261,339
[url]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10342761/Omicron-cases-jump-45-day-push-COVID-infections-near-record-261-339-cases.html[/url]
We have 6,800 cases today and hospitals are packed, no bueno!
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1653109993]Regardless of your thoughts on COVID, politics, or vaccines, thank you for the entertaining and enlightening conversations here, and I hope all of you have a happy, healthy, and wonderful Christmas weekend.[/QUOTE]
Thank you good sir. We should all be thanking you and all the insight you bring to this thread.
[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1653113883]You as well enjoy the weekend and just for laughs, doh!
Covid deaths in the US spike 50% to 3,354 in a day as Omicron cases jump 45% and push COVID infections to near record of 261,339
[url]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10342761/Omicron-cases-jump-45-day-push-COVID-infections-near-record-261-339-cases.html[/url]
We have 6,800 cases today and hospitals are packed, no bueno![/QUOTE]
Could get really wild after all the Christmas gatherings.
[QUOTE=Tommy W.;1653061883]well as soon as Brandon got in then the Vaxes were deemed safe and effective. Amazing how those shots went from Poison to amazing overnight[/QUOTE]
So you're vaxxed, right?
[quote]"Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of Omicron," said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor of health policy and management at the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health, on CNN Newsroom Tuesday.[/quote]
[url]https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/health/cloth-mask-omicron-variant-wellness/index.html[/url]
Cool, cool, can someone let those "in charge" know?
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1653109993]Regardless of your thoughts on COVID, politics, or vaccines, thank you for the entertaining and enlightening conversations here, and I hope all of you have a happy, healthy, and wonderful Christmas weekend.[/QUOTE]
Merry Christmas may your stockings be stuffed with Pfizer stocks :p
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1653117633][url]https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/health/cloth-mask-omicron-variant-wellness/index.html[/url]
Cool, cool, can someone let those "in charge" know?[/QUOTE]
Uh oh, what happens when CNN, known for their fake news, broadcasts something that Fox fake news already broadcasted and was debonked already by CNN? We have come full circle. This is a real Christmas conundrum. I think everyone should wear Rudolph noses with a UV light blasting down on their nostrils and mouth. Aside from killing germs, everyone would have a really cool tanned fu-man-chu type thing going on.
JustTheDad's analysis on all this 10 week stuff? I could see needing more frequent boosters to maintain peak effectiveness but I don't get the negative efficacy the anti-vax crowd is running with. Surely this must be a play with the data thing?
BRB, undoing my vax.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1653147413]JustTheDad's analysis on all this 10 week stuff? I could see needing more frequent boosters to maintain peak effectiveness but I don't get the negative efficacy the anti-vax crowd is running with. Surely this must be a play with the data thing?
BRB, undoing my vax.[/QUOTE]
First, labeling anyone not drinking the koolaid on this nonsense as “antivax” is ignorant. Just because you believe getting an injection every 10 weeks is “safe and effective” doesn’t make it a fact. You have no frame of reference on the long term safety of these injections. I guess we will get to see the data in 50 years though.
Next is effective, the currently available vaccines are clearly not effective. Look at the numbers. I deal with this stuff regularly, vaxxed (even with recent booster) and unvaxxed are getting sick around the same rate for the 2000 or so staff I see. As far as reducing symptoms or death, likely so, but this is a disease that is primarily severe for specific demographics. Younger and “healthy” (without significant known comorbidities) populations were not having significant bad outcomes since the beginning. The population demographics that are dying now are still the same that were dying from the beginning, vaccinated or not. Vaccines probably help some but are no panacea. If they worked well as people are led to believe, you would expect to see significantly less illness and death since they were instituted, that is not the case.
Merry Christmas, stay safe.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653153153]First, labeling anyone not drinking the koolaid on this nonsense as “antivax” is ignorant. Just because you believe getting an injection every 10 weeks is “safe and effective” doesn’t make it a fact. You have no frame of reference on the long term safety of these injections. I guess we will get to see the data in 50 years though.
Next is effective, the currently available vaccines are clearly not effective. Look at the numbers. I deal with this stuff regularly, vaxxed (even with recent booster) and unvaxxed are getting sick around the same rate for the 2000 or so staff I see. As far as reducing symptoms or death, likely so, but this is a disease that is primarily severe for specific demographics. Younger and “healthy” (without significant known comorbidities) populations were not having significant bad outcomes since the beginning. The population demographics that are dying now are still the same that were dying from the beginning, vaccinated or not. Vaccines probably help some but are no panacea. If they worked well as people are led to believe, you would expect to see significantly less illness and death since they were instituted, that is not the case.
Merry Christmas, stay safe.[/QUOTE]
Why do you always get so upset? Not effective? LoL. Last I knew unvaxxed we're being hospitalized at a rate of 11 to 1 to vaxxed bro. Not the silver bullet society hoped for but seems pretty effective to me up to this point.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1653153593]Why do you always get so upset? Not effective? LoL. Last I knew unvaxxed we're being hospitalized at a rate of 11 to 1 to vaxxed bro. Not the silver bullet society hoped for but seems pretty effective to me up to this point.[/QUOTE]
I’m not upset. I think it’s funny and sad. Believe whatever you want buddy, my kids just finished opening presents that Santa Clause brought them. I don’t personally believe that Santa is real, but they are happy to believe and I’m happy for them. According to the news he was spotted by NORAD and Chicago police, so maybe he is real cause it was on the news…
[url]https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-insist-that-true-vaccines-havent-been-tried-yet[/url]
[url]https://babylonbee.com/news/alarming-new-study-finds-that-everyone-who-gets-covid-will-die-at-some-point[/url]
[QUOTE=mgftp;1653153593]Why do you always get so upset? Not effective? LoL. Last I knew unvaxxed we're being hospitalized at a rate of 11 to 1 to vaxxed bro. Not the silver bullet society hoped for but seems pretty effective to me up to this point.[/QUOTE]
he didnt sound upset at all though. i think youre the one thats upset about your worthless jabs
Merry xmas brahs and brahettes.
May you have a holiday not filled with illness and death.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653153153]Look at the numbers. I deal with this stuff regularly, vaxxed (even with recent booster) and unvaxxed are getting sick around the same rate for the 2000 or so staff I see. As far as reducing symptoms or death, likely so, but this is a disease that is primarily severe for specific demographics. Younger and “healthy” (without significant known comorbidities) populations were not having significant bad outcomes since the beginning. [/QUOTE]
Nope. Yep. Maybe, but we won't know for a while. ;)
Nope. Not getting "sick" at the same rate. Can't comment on your small sample though, but happy to look at the numbers if you want to post them. However, for something non-anecdotal, compare the hospitalization and death rates per age group now vs last January when we had slightly less cases.
Yep, less symptoms. Pretty much what you want.
Maybe. Young and healthy should have less bad outcomes, but up to 3% of young men get a myocarditis post infection and we know there are vascular effects. Will the vaccine prove to have been protective against to long term sequelae of exposure to the nucleocapsid and other antigenic proteins? Guess we'll see. Will there be more long term problems for people who had COVID infections sans any vaccinations than for those who got 1,2, or 3 shots? Can't say yet, but probably. Less of the 27 or 28 antigenic proteins vs some or more of the 1 attenuated spike protein... .
Do we ALL hope that none of these options, shots, boosters, or infections wind up leading to issues down the line? Well, I sure do, and I hope you all do too.
My daughter's boyfriend is home with COVID after his booster shot 1 month ago. Exposed Tuesday. Got a bad cold yesterday.
Feeling mostly fine today. Actually went for a run even though he sounds pretty sniffly on Facetime.
Would he have felt worse sans vaccine or booster? Probably.
You guys are welcome to tap into the multiverse and check all the outcomes if you know how, but I'm going to have Christmas dinner instead. I got my multiverse fill during Spiderman earlier today.
Merry Christmas everyone :)
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1653174943]Nope. Yep. Maybe, but we won't know for a while. ;)
Nope. Not getting "sick" at the same rate. Can't comment on your small sample though, but happy to look at the numbers if you want to post them. However, for something non-anecdotal, compare the hospitalization and death rates per age group now vs last January when we had slightly less cases.
Yep, less symptoms. Pretty much what you want.
Maybe. Young and healthy should have less bad outcomes, but up to 3% of young men get a myocarditis post infection and we know there are vascular effects. Will the vaccine prove to have been protective against to long term sequelae of exposure to the nucleocapsid and other antigenic proteins? Guess we'll see. Will there be more long term problems for people who had COVID infections sans any vaccinations than for those who got 1,2, or 3 shots? Can't say yet, but probably. Less of the 27 or 28 antigenic proteins vs some or more of the 1 attenuated spike protein... .
Do we ALL hope that none of these options, shots, boosters, or infections wind up leading to issues down the line? Well, I sure do, and I hope you all do too.
My daughter's boyfriend is home with COVID after his booster shot 1 month ago. Exposed Tuesday. Got a bad cold yesterday.
Feeling mostly fine today. Actually went for a run even though he sounds pretty sniffly on Facetime.
Would he have felt worse sans vaccine or booster? Probably.
You guys are welcome to tap into the multiverse and check all the outcomes if you know how, but I'm going to have Christmas dinner instead. I got my multiverse fill during Spiderman earlier today.
Merry Christmas everyone :)[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the level of candor you bring. I also understand the negative career impacts you would feel for having a different position. You are factual without being preachey, and while you’ve expressed facts that provide food for thought, you maintain a position that will allow you to continue your paycheck. Much respect. I agree that the vax is helping if you want to call it that, but it’s not working. I just had family in town part of their visit was for a death. The deceased family member had been is hospice for about 9 days. Tested for covid EVERY DAY, that seems strange. That’s just a personal experience from today, probably just trying to keep the dying person safe though, don’t want someone dying to test positive for covid or anything, even if it was one of those rare false positives..
Also; that kid should make sure they are not running in a public place where other mammals go. In a city he’s going to infect people in the country deer, squirrels and rabbits.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653180083] I agree that the vax is helping if you want to call it that, but it’s not working. I just had family in town part of their visit was for a death. The deceased family member had been is hospice for about 9 days. Tested for covid EVERY DAY, that seems strange. That’s just a personal experience from today, probably just trying to keep the dying person safe though, don’t want someone dying to test positive for covid or anything, even if it was one of those rare false positives..
Also; that kid should make sure they are not running in a public place where other mammals go. In a city he’s going to infect people in the country deer, squirrels and rabbits.[/QUOTE]
Once upon a time I would always say, "You're right" when I was wrong.
As I grew a touch wiser I made a habit of saying "I was wrong" in addition to the first part.
Now I'm good with I'm wrong and I don't know and all their variations.
You're a very smart guy, and I respect your opinion, but I disagree about what "working" means. The vaccines are doing exactly what they were expected to do. Also, you should stop changing the definition of "working" or you're going to confuse me ;)
And honestly, after all the pages of this thread, I know we both think they're "working". They just don't do more than they were designed to do. They're just vaccines after all.
On the other hand, I agree completely, that they aren't going to solve our COVID problems, whatever those actually are, which is what a lot of politicians hope and what some media outlets imply.
I'll tell the runner not to cough on a squirrel :)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GCL8vFq.png?1[/img]
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1653153633]I’m not upset. I think it’s funny and sad. Believe whatever you want buddy, my kids just finished opening presents that Santa Clause brought them. I don’t personally believe that Santa is real, but they are happy to believe and I’m happy for them. According to the news he was spotted by NORAD and Chicago police, so maybe he is real cause it was on the news…
[url]https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-insist-that-true-vaccines-havent-been-tried-yet[/url]
[url]https://babylonbee.com/news/alarming-new-study-finds-that-everyone-who-gets-covid-will-die-at-some-point[/url][/QUOTE]
Huh, not the first time I have thought so reading one of your posts, in reply to me or many others here. Perhaps tone and intent is just too hard to decipher reading words on the internet and I am getting the wrong impression.
[QUOTE=fishnbrah;1653153903]he didnt sound upset at all though. i think youre the one thats upset about your worthless jabs[/QUOTE]
I would love to know what have you that impression so I can adjust for the future.
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1653174943]Nope. Yep. Maybe, but we won't know for a while. ;)
Nope. Not getting "sick" at the same rate. Can't comment on your small sample though, but happy to look at the numbers if you want to post them. However, for something non-anecdotal, compare the hospitalization and death rates per age group now vs last January when we had slightly less cases.
Yep, less symptoms. Pretty much what you want.
Maybe. Young and healthy should have less bad outcomes, but up to 3% of young men get a myocarditis post infection and we know there are vascular effects. Will the vaccine prove to have been protective against to long term sequelae of exposure to the nucleocapsid and other antigenic proteins? Guess we'll see. Will there be more long term problems for people who had COVID infections sans any vaccinations than for those who got 1,2, or 3 shots? Can't say yet, but probably. Less of the 27 or 28 antigenic proteins vs some or more of the 1 attenuated spike protein... .
Do we ALL hope that none of these options, shots, boosters, or infections wind up leading to issues down the line? Well, I sure do, and I hope you all do too.
My daughter's boyfriend is home with COVID after his booster shot 1 month ago. Exposed Tuesday. Got a bad cold yesterday.
Feeling mostly fine today. [B]Actually went for a run even though he sounds pretty sniffly on Facetime. [/B]
Would he have felt worse sans vaccine or booster? Probably.
You guys are welcome to tap into the multiverse and check all the outcomes if you know how, but I'm going to have Christmas dinner instead. I got my multiverse fill during Spiderman earlier today.
Merry Christmas everyone :)[/QUOTE]
Apple instead of Google? I am disgusted.
Also, your take on this 10 week data whenever you get to it would be much appreciated. ������
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1653181763]You're a very smart guy, and I respect your opinion, but I disagree about what "working" means. The vaccines are doing exactly what they were expected to do. [/QUOTE]
I disagree. The vaccines were supposed to get everyone off my ass about being an immediate threat to them despite how many times they wanted to get jabbed themselves. Now if I'm not running a booster every 10 weeks, apparently I am a menace to society. :p
I realize you don't feel this way, and in reality the vaccines were never designed to do more than the regular flu shot does, but of course that is not at all how they were marketed, nor the expectations that were set from the beginning. They were poised as the holy grail to make people to feel safe and protected and to get society back to normal. They are failing miserably at that, and the developers like Pfizer and Moderna did not do enough at all to correct expectations. They easily could have, but were too busy being mesmerized by the sky rocketing stock ticker I'm guessing.
[QUOTE=ectoBgone;1653198483]I disagree. The vaccines were supposed to get everyone off my ass about being an immediate threat to them despite how many times they wanted to get jabbed themselves. Now if I'm not running a booster every 10 weeks, apparently I am a menace to society. :p
[/QUOTE]
One of my favorite recent posts.
I didn't realize the vaccines were marketed as curing stupidity, but if they were, they clearly aren't doing that and I was wrong. A 90% reduction would have been great, although not sure how our government would function without its primary source of energy.
MGFTP,
I gave air pods or tags or whatever they're called to my wife and kids, but I don't have any because they don't work with my Pixel phone. Such is life.
I keep hearing you guys mention 10 weeks, but I honestly haven't been paying attention to any media outlets. I'll search for whatever you're talking about when I get a chance, but I'm sure you don't need any more booster shots for a while. Much longer than 10 weeks!
Disclaimer: I do have Apple stock, but no Pfizer or Moderna stock.
Edit: That was easy to find. The 10 weeks. Ignore all of it. It's silly. Unless Omicron becomes much more dangerous than it currently is, trying to prevent symptoms for it long term with recurring shots of a vaccine to the wild type strain would be an unbelievably stupid idea.
The media is getting silly if that's how they're spinning that data. We were lucky we could find any statistical difference in symptoms. Let's see if there's any real benefit when we have data on hospitalizations and mortality. Hopefully that will take a while because less people will actually get very sick from Omicron and we won't have big numbers in any of the populations/cohorts we tract.