Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=ectoBgone;1646318053]This actually jogged my memory on something I wanted to ask you. I feel lazy for not researching it much myself, but isn't the booster simply a re-spin of the vaccine encoded for the antigen associated with delta? Is it a "booster" because the dosing is smaller or does something make it fundamentally different than the original vaccine? Aside from the sunk cost of the existing vaccine already manufactured, why not just reset the current vaccines administered to encode the most recent variant? I thought that was part of the benefit of mRNA technology. It should allow for quick pivots for variants. Thanks for your time.[/QUOTE]


I'm told some trials have started with updated spike proteins, but I haven't searched clinical trials .gov to know if they are enrolling or in startup. Those should go fairly quickly, and it seems to me that a third shot with an updated antigen would be more useful than another shot of the wild type vaccine. That said, I don't know if a 3rd shot of a new strain would properly be called a booster shot.

The current booster shots are the same vaccine as we've been receiving already. No change in antigen or dose. Useful for people who don't have a normal immune system response, and they may temporarily increase cross strain resistance since you'll have more antibodies and Tk/Th cells for a while, but I don't think there's enough data to say how much benefit each cohort or population of people will get.

The CDC was recommending people get a third shot of the same vaccine. I don't know if they still are, but I told my parents that it makes more sense to me to get a shot of Moderna. They've had Pfizer's vaccine, so I figure they might as well modernize it. Without real data, it's purely speculation that you may get slightly broader protection if you mix brands.

[QUOTE=_zman;1646538723]Quitting my job today due to vax mandate. I found a new job. Feels good man. Also increased my salary by 80% and a title upgrade.[/QUOTE]

Congrats! Glad it all worked out in your favor!

[QUOTE=_zman;1646538723]Quitting my job today due to vax mandate. I found a new job. Feels good man. Also increased my salary by 80% and a title upgrade.[/QUOTE] Pleased to hear it, a new job that feels better with an increase in salary has to be good! (not sure the significance of a title upgrade, fancy titles don't pay for groceries) But congratulations, good for you

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1646539323]I'm told some trials have started with updated spike proteins, but I haven't searched clinical trials .gov to know if they are enrolling or in startup. Those should go fairly quickly, and it seems to me that a third shot with an updated antigen would be more useful than another shot of the wild type vaccine. That said, I don't know if a 3rd shot of a new strain would properly be called a booster shot.... ... [/QUOTE]
What do you make of the idea circulating that the blinkered approach on spike protein [only] is possibly counterproductive?
I'm seeing very similar opinions in many places but a very simplified explanation for consumption by us ordinary folks (rather than for people such as yourself) for example here: [url]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58270098[/url]

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1646426123][img]https://i.imgur.com/EfjlzSL.jpg?1[/img][/QUOTE]

you would have loved Hitler.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1646539613]Congrats! Glad it all worked out in your favor![/QUOTE]

Thanks appreciate it!

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1646539653]Pleased to hear it, a new job that feels better with an increase in salary has to be good! (not sure the significance of a title upgrade, fancy titles don't pay for groceries) But congratulations, good for you

[/QUOTE]

It'll be life changing for me. Thanks!

[QUOTE=fishnbrah;1646539793]you would have loved Hitler.[/QUOTE]


Awww! Sounds like someone got their little feelings hurt because of a meme. Suck it up princess, I didn't make the meme, I just posted it. I do however agree with most of it and No I would not have liked Hitler. You may not agree with the meme and that's perfectly ok, however comparing wearing a mask during a pandemic to the actions of Hitler is a stretch TBH

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1646539653]What do you make of the idea circulating that the blinkered approach on spike protein [only] is possibly counterproductive?
I'm seeing very similar opinions in many places but a very simplified explanation for consumption by us ordinary folks (rather than for people such as yourself) for example here: [url]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58270098[/url][/QUOTE]

If most neutralizing antibodies to a virus are to antigens that are involved with cell binding and entry, then the spike protein is the most obvious target. From what I've seen, there are at least two epitopes or areas on the spike protein that antibodies can bind to well, and there are other epitopes in areas of the spike protein that are less likely to mutate. So while we're only giving or inducing production of one antigenic protein, it doesn't mean you only have antibodies to one epitope after being vaccinated. It's more complicated than that.

We can measure antibodies to the nucleocapsid after an actual SARS CoV2 infection. That's one way to check to see if someone has been exposed or infected after being vaccinated. We don't know if those antibodies are protective in any way. I even saw one paper that indicated higher ab levels to the nucleocapsid was inversely correlating with time to recovery or having a good outcome. I don't think they were measuring the ratio of spike:nc antibody levels and it could just be related to how the persons immune system responded. If you get sicker, you may have more virus and therefore more antibody to the nucleocapsid. I'd have to re-read it.

If you can safely get 80 or 90% of the protective antibodies by just giving the spike protein, it's hard to argue against that approach. With luck and a good immune system, then over the rest of your life you can develop antibodies to other protective epitopes on mutant strain spike proteins, or to other antigens on the virus. The goal would be to do that without getting sick, spreading the virus, or raising your own mutant strain. There aren't that many proteins in the entire virus, so it's hard to criticize picking the most effective one to target. I think the ideal next step in covid vaccines might be to develop a spike protein vaccine that induced more an immunity to less mutable epitopes. Epitopes that would be more conserved across different strains. You're already getting exposure to them, but they aren't the most accessible epitopes so I guess we develop less of a response to them. Of course, they might not be as protective at similar Ab levels, so who knows. Unfortunately, we can't even model and design proteins like that quickly, so we'll probably have to use what mother nature provides. Maybe in another decade or two. Until then, we'll be stuck with giving monoclonal antibodies to those conserved epitopes as a treatment, rather than helping you create your own. It's still very impressive that people have managed to do just that already.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1646541913]Awww! Sounds like someone got their little feelings hurt because of a meme. Suck it up princess, I didn't make the meme, I just posted it. I do however agree with most of it and No I would not have liked Hitler. You may not agree with the meme and that's perfectly ok, however comparing wearing a mask during a pandemic to the actions of Hitler is a stretch TBH[/QUOTE]

Wait, asking someone to wear a mask during a pandemic isn't the same as rounding up a whole population of a certain religion for slave camps and death?

[QUOTE=mgftp;1646542173]Wait, asking someone to wear a mask during a pandemic isn't the same as rounding up a whole population of a certain religion for slave camps and death?[/QUOTE]


Ha Ha, I know right?

Went from Delta to MU pretty fast, I guess they are saving the FU variant for the big whammy

[QUOTE=fishnbrah;1646539793]you would have loved Hitler.[/QUOTE]

What is your take on the old line...
"No shirt no shoes, no service"
Was that even legal?

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1646539323]I'm told some trials have started with updated spike proteins, but I haven't searched clinical trials .gov to know if they are enrolling or in startup. Those should go fairly quickly, and it seems to me that a third shot with an updated antigen would be more useful than another shot of the wild type vaccine. That said, I don't know if a 3rd shot of a new strain would properly be called a booster shot.

The current booster shots are the same vaccine as we've been receiving already. No change in antigen or dose. Useful for people who don't have a normal immune system response, and they may temporarily increase cross strain resistance since you'll have more antibodies and Tk/Th cells for a while, but I don't think there's enough data to say how much benefit each cohort or population of people will get.

The CDC was recommending people get a third shot of the same vaccine. I don't know if they still are, but I told my parents that it makes more sense to me to get a shot of Moderna. They've had Pfizer's vaccine, so I figure they might as well modernize it. Without real data, it's purely speculation that you may get slightly broader protection if you mix brands.[/QUOTE]

Interesting info and take, thank you.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Xsjnxfz.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Ox529MC.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=fishnbrah;1646539793]you would have loved Hitler.[/QUOTE]

Your knowledge of history is suspect.

[youtube]3O_7O9_nV10[/youtube]

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1646552653][youtube]3O_7O9_nV10[/youtube][/QUOTE]

Makes some great points. Stay healthy and don't drink all night.

It's sad that people really do want the unvaxxed to get more sick than they do, but it doesn't fit the narrative. People don't want to realize the lockdowns and mandates were only to protect a very small portion of the population, at the cost of our economy, mountains of debt for generations to come, shortage of chips, small businesses lost, reduced education and learning capacity, generational restaurants closed forever, and soon a housing crisis. All of that and we're still not in the clear, according to the narrative.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1646549393][img]https://i.imgur.com/Ox529MC.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

If ivermectin does that, I want some! :)

So I just read that nih is doing trials on ivermectin and it mentioned that 100 times the normal dose might be required in humans. Prior studies used monkeys and it isnt the same.

People need to keep in mind whenever you hear backlash against covid treatment that the only way to push through an Emergency Use Authorization for any drug including vaccines is "when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives". If there is adequate, approved, available covid treatment, Pfizer, Moderna, J&J can't get their vaccine authorized until it's gone through the usual channels. I know we all like to think drug approval is based on science and evidence but I think that delusion went out of the window a while ago.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1646547933][img]https://i.imgur.com/Xsjnxfz.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

I hope you told the person that posted this, that he or she has an IQ of 10.

I've been up-close exposed to dozens of people who were active with covid and I am unvaccinated. It's not broke for me, so I'm not fixing it.

[QUOTE=sy2502;1646614713]People need to keep in mind whenever you hear backlash against covid treatment that the only way to push through an Emergency Use Authorization for any drug including vaccines is "when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives". If there is adequate, approved, available covid treatment, Pfizer, Moderna, J&J can't get their vaccine authorized until it's gone through the usual channels.[b] I know we all like to think drug approval is based on science and evidence but I think that delusion went out of the window a while ago.[/b][/QUOTE]

So what do you think the the recent Pfizer vaccine approval was based on? How much was the data from the clinical trials considered in the process in your opinion?

[QUOTE=sy2502;1646614713]People need to keep in mind whenever you hear backlash against covid treatment that the only way to push through an Emergency Use Authorization for any drug including vaccines is "when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives". If there is adequate, approved, available covid treatment, Pfizer, Moderna, J&J can't get their vaccine authorized until it's gone through the usual channels. I know we all like to think drug approval is based on science and evidence but I think that delusion went out of the window a while ago.[/QUOTE]

True from what I've read anyway. That's probably why Ivermectin probably getting such a backlash even though some studies are showing it to be very effective.

[QUOTE=2nd_chance;1646616343]I've been up-close exposed to dozens of people who were active with covid and I am unvaccinated. It's not broke for me, so I'm not fixing it.[/QUOTE]

I know several people that were around people that had it as well when they were not vaxxed. They even shared a a particular smoking device, yet never got it. And they aren't even the healthy type of people, just mid 40s.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1646617213]So what do you think the the recent Pfizer vaccine approval was based on? How much was the data from the clinical trials considered in the process in your opinion?[/QUOTE]

I don't have the faintest idea, but as I said, I am not just going to assume it was all about good solid data. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

All I can tell you is that I know several people who work in medical startups, some have tried to get their product FDA approved for TEN YEARS, with the FDA sending their documentation back for any possible trivial reason they could find, so do I find the Pfizer approval suspicious? You bet your azz I do. And let's face it the medical establishment (and by that I mean FDA, CDC, NIH, WHO, etc) has done nothing to win my trust in the last year and a half.

[QUOTE=sy2502;1646617633]I don't have the faintest idea, but as I said, I am not just going to assume it was all about good solid data. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

All I can tell you is that I know several people who work in medical startups, some have tried to get their product FDA approved for TEN YEARS, with the FDA sending their documentation back for any possible trivial reason they could find, so do I find the Pfizer approval suspicious? You bet your azz I do. And let's face it the medical establishment (and by that I mean FDA, CDC, NIH, WHO, etc) has done nothing to win my trust in the last year and a half.[/QUOTE]

"Hey guise, I have no idea about the data - I just know several people in medical startups trying to get their shiity supplements FDA approved and it won't happen, yet a little pandemic that killed 600K people in the US in one year gets the FDA to put a priority on a vaccine? I don't buy it because the CDC, the WHO, et al., could not get everything perfect with a new strain of coronavirus no man has seen before. I expect world-renowned scientists to be magicians."

[QUOTE=2nd_chance;1646616343]I've been up-close exposed to dozens of people who were active with covid and I am unvaccinated. It's not broke for me, so I'm not fixing it.[/QUOTE]

That's because of your Jesus Crew status. Covid don't mess around with dat dere Jesus crew, I hear.

[QUOTE=z4v4;1646620893]"Hey guise, I have no idea about the data - I just know several people in medical startups trying to get their shiity supplements FDA approved and it won't happen, yet a little pandemic that killed 600K people in the US in one year gets the FDA to put a priority on a vaccine? I don't buy it because the CDC, the WHO, et al., could not get everything perfect with a new strain of coronavirus no man has seen before. I expect world-renowned scientists to be magicians."[/QUOTE]

The difference between me and you is that when you don't know if you can trust them or not, you choose to blindly trust them and I don't. At my house we call people who trust too easily "suckers".

[QUOTE=2nd_chance;1646616343]I've been up-close exposed to dozens of people who were active with covid and I am unvaccinated. It's not broke for me, so I'm not fixing it.[/QUOTE]

How do you explain that, super healthy and fit with zero underlying conditions, or just dumb luck?

[QUOTE=2nd_chance;1646616343]I've been up-close exposed to dozens of people who were active with covid and I am unvaccinated. It's not broke for me, so I'm not fixing it.[/QUOTE]

Amen.

Many Christians are unjabbed.

If a church forces its members to take the jab, it's time to find a new church.