Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=TryingBB;1639448663]We didn’t wanna go scared of covid haha

Even now we try to do telehealth if needed

I got a friend whose a doc in the ER and he did say they saw only a couple really terrible covid cases and he didn’t hospitalize that many.

Regardless I know people / people who know people who suffered / died from covid.

It’s real

I still support the lockdowns but they should’ve done a better job thinking of all of the above plus more and had campaigns to minimize the long term effects.

I still think if the entire world turned into India like situation it would’ve been game over for many more[/QUOTE]

Well I can’t change your opinions, but I will rep you back tomorrow, I’m all out for today.
Thanks bro

Edit-a lot of people can’t get into MISC..luckily I can..if you are able to, have a look at this thread...it’s comical, sad,& thought provoking all in one..like MISC should be..

[url]https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=179982203&page=88[/url]

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639447033]Have you ever been to India? 90% of the people don’t have clean water..what’s going on there is a larp in regards to Covid. Also, the lockdowns killed far more people then we would have ever saved you do realize?[/QUOTE]

I have read that upwards of 350,000,000 in India have never had electricity, seems so backwoods but then the vast majority of that country is not even good enough to be classed as a 3rd world country. Starving people everywhere but damn cows walking around free because they won't eat them, screw that noise, kill the damn thing & throw some steaks on the old grill.

[QUOTE=Bando;1639441823]My wife was the director of social work in a Nursing Home through the brunt of the Pandemic. She came home crying almost every night and she's pretty tough, held the hands of dozens of dying people as they passed. Before covid they were rolling out maybe 1 bodybag every six weeks, during covid they were rolling out a dead person every day.

Yeah, maybe they were faking that for political reasons? LO fukking L.[/QUOTE]


Oh I wasn't referring to the Pandemic, I was attempting a little sarcasm, but perhaps it backfired, merely a throw away remark to Tom's post, the gentleman who first received the vaccine here in the UK was called William Shakespeare, I have every sympathy for his family, perhaps it wasn't the right time to be Whimsical.

I have so much appreciation for the kind of work your wife undertook during the past 14 months, my own Mother succumbed to the virus last January, neither myself or my sisters were allowed to be with her at the end, thankfully two members of the wonderful nursing staff were. It was heartbreaking for my family and we can never truly show our appreciation for the care shown by those who were at her side when she passed.

[QUOTE=gym62richard;1639456673]Oh I wasn't referring to the Pandemic, I was attempting a little sarcasm, but perhaps it backfired, merely a throw away remark to Tom's post, the gentleman who first received the vaccine here in the UK was called William Shakespeare, I have every sympathy for his family, perhaps it wasn't the right time to be Whimsical.

I have so much appreciation for the kind of work your wife undertook during the past 14 months, my own Mother succumbed to the virus last January, neither myself or my sisters were allowed to be with her at the end, thankfully two members of the wonderful nursing staff were. It was heartbreaking for my family and we can never truly show our appreciation for the care shown by those who were at her side when she passed.[/QUOTE]

Condolences.

[QUOTE=Corbi;1639454513]I have read that upwards of 350,000,000 in India have never had electricity, seems so backwoods but then the vast majority of that country is not even good enough to be classed as a 3rd world country. Starving people everywhere but damn cows walking around free because they won't eat them, screw that noise, kill the damn thing & throw some steaks on the old grill.[/QUOTE]

There are lots of starving people in India, although not near as many as decades ago, but there also are lots of rich people and a strong middle-class. I've had friends from India tell me they don't see any difference between India and the US. I don't get it, I've worked in India on a few occasions and it seems very different to me, but there are many millions there living the equivalent of an American middle to upper middle-class life and they don't notice the squalor any more than we notice our (much smaller) pockets of squalor.

India is a net exporter of food, there is plenty of food to go around. Eating the cows would have no impact. Those who lack food do so because of social class dynamics, not the food supply. India has a growing problem with obesity and obesity-related diseases. It's gotten worse, but even when I worked there for several months in 1983, I saw ads for weight-loss clinics. I worked there the summer of '07 and the mall by our apartment had ads for "Skinny Jeans, not for the masses", showing photos of stylish skinny people in their jeans walking past the pathetic fatties.

Meat consumption has grown in India, even among Hindus, but most still consider eating beef very offensive. Meat is mostly chicken and mutton. When I was there in '07, I met this Christian guy and he invited us to his house in the slums (his word) and was so proud to serve me and my daughter beef. It was nasty! It was likely buffalo, but I appreciate him making the special meal. My daughter is a vegetarian (she didn't eat the beef) and she loved that all the restaurants and fast food places had separate veg and non-veg sides.

India (and everywhere else obviously) was hit hard by Covid shutdowns. The police used it to just beat people in the cities. There was no work in the cities and millions of workers from the villages had to walk hundreds of miles with no food to get back to their villages.

India has come a long way. "Third World" is an outdated concept and most of India would no longer be considered "third world" anyway. Hans Rosling (see below) points out that our view of the rest of the world corresponds to what it was like when our teachers were young.

Indians are everywhere. My neighborhood in the US is significantly Indian. Traveling around the world you find them everywhere (also find Chinese). This website was likely built and maintained by Indians in the US or India. A pretty big fraction of the world's population is Indian or Chinese so you find them everywhere.

Video from Hans Rosling (btw, if you track income and life-expectancy, you see the same progress as what he shows in this video):

[youtube]lYpX4l2UeZg[/youtube]

[QUOTE=gym62richard;1639456673]my own Mother succumbed to the virus last January, neither myself or my sisters were allowed to be with her at the end, thankfully two members of the wonderful nursing staff were. It was heartbreaking for my family and we can never truly show our appreciation for the care shown by those who were at her side when she passed.[/QUOTE]

I'm so sorry.

It's a tough call. My father got Covid in December. When he got really sick, we (his kids) had to make a choice whether to have them fight it aggressively in the hospital even though they were not hopeful, which would mean we'd wouldn't be able to see him. Or to move him to a hospice where we could be with him. We chose the hospice and were able to talk and sing and pray with him and hold his hand at the end. My mother died suddenly the previous year and none of us were with her and we wanted to be with our dad. Again, it was a tough call.

[QUOTE=Corbi;1639454513]I have read that upwards of 350,000,000 in India have never had electricity, seems so backwoods but then the vast majority of that country is not even good enough to be classed as a 3rd world country. Starving people everywhere but damn cows walking around free because they won't eat them, screw that noise, kill the damn thing & throw some steaks on the old grill.[/QUOTE]
This.
When the meat shortage comes, bringing fork & knife to India.

[QUOTE=Bando;1639441823]My wife was the director of social work in a Nursing Home through the brunt of the Pandemic. She came home crying almost every night and she's pretty tough, held the hands of dozens of dying people as they passed. Before covid they were rolling out maybe 1 bodybag every six weeks, during covid they were rolling out a dead person every day.

Yeah, maybe they were faking that for political reasons? LO fukking L.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think you read a fuking word in his post.........

Nursing homes are high risk to anything, the hysteria came from shutting stuff down that didn’t need it........

You should look around at the damage this lockdown has done, the people in most cities are now insane and most cities are to point of Chaos.

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639447853]Sure..Because of lockdowns
• People Suffering from Other Diseases

◦ 1.4 million additional tuberculosis deaths due to lockdown disruptions
◦ 500,000 additional deaths related to HIV
◦ Malaria deaths could double to 770,000 total per year
◦ 65 percent decrease in all cancer screenings
◦ Breast cancer screenings dropped 89 percent
◦ Colorectal screenings dropped 85 percent
◦ Projected increase in cancer deaths, including up to 16.6 percent increase in colorectal cancer deaths, 9.5 percent increase in breast cancer deaths, and 5.4 percent increase in lung cancer deaths over the next 5 years
◦ 75 percent decrease in suspected cancer referrals in the UK
◦ At least 1/3 of excess deaths in the U.S. are already not related to COVID-19
◦ Widespread disruption of access to health care in the UK, disproportionately for poor individuals
◦ Increase in cardiac arrests but decrease in EMS calls for them
◦ 38% decrease in heart disease-related treatments
◦ 33% drop in heart attack patients, 58% drop in stroke patients
◦ Significant increase in stress-related cardiomyopathy during lockdowns
◦ 15,000 additional non-COVID Alzheimer’s deaths (as of June – likely much higher now)


• Starvation and Food Insecurity
◦ 168k child hunger deaths predicted in Africa
◦ As many as 12,000 additional hunger deaths expected per day globally due to lockdown disruptions, up to 6,000 children
◦ World Food Programme sees an 82% increase in food insecurity
◦ 132 million additional people in sub-Saharan Africa are projected to be undernourished due to lockdown disruptions
◦ More than 50 million people living in America, including 17 million children, are likely to experience food insecurity by the end of the year
◦ UNICEF is having to feed UK children for the first time
◦ 2 million Filipino families are starving because of lockdowns, at levels “never seen before”
◦ UN warns that the famine and lockdown fallout in 2021 will be catastrophic


• Effects on Children
◦ Study estimates up to 2.3 million additional child deaths in the next year from lockdowns
◦ Lockdowns are fueling child labor, including in commercial sex exploitation, mining, and tobacco production
◦ Up to 104% increase in new HIV infections among children
◦ Millions of girls have been deprived of access to food, basic healthcare, and protection and thousands exposed to abuse and exploitation
◦ FGM increases in Africa, setting back previous widespread efforts to end FGM
◦ An estimated 13 million more child marriages
◦ Teen pregnancy up in many countries
◦ Low-income students are suffering in online classes, widening inequality
◦ School closures leading to a disproportionate increased health, social and economic divides between low and high-income families
◦ School closures in the US decreased reported child abuse by 27 percent
◦ Billions of days of lost education worldwide
◦ Decreased access to healthcare
◦ Anxiety and stress from stay-at-home orders
◦ Sharp rise in eating disorders among children
◦ Child abuse reports increased 34% in Ireland between March and December


• Domestic/Sexual Abuse
◦ Domestic violence reports have skyrocketed (another source here)
◦ Up to 70% decrease in reports of child abuse to CPS early in lockdown
◦ Male victim domestic abuse calls increased by 60% in the UK
◦ Domestic abuse becomes more severe during lockdowns


• Economy and Poverty
◦ 150 million people forced into extreme poverty
◦ 8 million Americans pushed into poverty – largest increase in US history
◦ Half of lower-income Americans report household job or wage loss due to lockdowns
◦ A year of lockdowns has destroyed a decade of progress in helping the world’s poor – particularly in children
◦ Shutdowns cause disproportionate number of evictions for Black and Latino tenants
◦ School closures are causing many detrimental second-order economic effects
◦ Lockdowns drive homelessness in NYC to record levels
◦ Over 110,000 US restaurants permanently closed
◦ Unemployment tripled among young Americans, 52% now live with their parents
◦ 2 million UK families have been pushed into poverty
◦ NYC bankruptcies are up 40% compared to a year ago (as of September)
◦ Half of European small and medium businesses say they will face bankruptcy in the next year
◦ New Zealand lockdowns pushed 70k children into poverty
◦ 90% of New Zealanders who lost their jobs were women
◦ Thousands of Aucklanders turn to food banks – there are now 29 registered food banks in Auckland; prior to COVID there were less than 5
◦ Up to 500,000 fewer births in the U.S. will create severe economic hardship for childcare and child-related services and products


• Mental health
◦ 1 in 5 U.S. adults developed mental disorder
◦ 1 in 4 young adults have seriously considered suicide
◦ Severe consequences from isolation of the elderly – increased mortality, worsening cognitive abilities, accelerating dementia, mental health consequences, failure to thrive, etc.
◦ Isolation of children significantly increases their risk of poor adult health – both mentally and physically
◦ Half of young adults showing signs of depression
◦ Half of students say their mental health has declined
◦ Suicidal ideation increased in areas under stay-at-home orders while it remained stable in areas that did not have stay-at-home orders
◦ Cases of depression and prevalence of depression symptoms have tripled in the U.S.
◦ As many as 10 million people, including 1.5 million children, are thought to need new or additional mental health support as a direct result of lockdowns in the UK
◦ 70% increase in referrals of patients with serious suicidal thoughts in Israel


• Suicides
◦ Suicide-related calls to crisis hotline in Canada increased 66 percent
◦ Suicides up in Bay Area
◦ Projected increase in suicides in Canada
◦ Suicides up sharply in Toronto
◦ Canadians in quarantine twice as likely to have suicidal thoughts
◦ Military suicides up 20%
◦ Suicides increasing among children in Dallas metro area
◦ Male suicides at highest level in two decades in England
◦ Suicides rising in Japan for the first time in over a decade


• Substance Abuse
◦ Overdoses and overdose deaths are at their highest point ever for a 12-month period in the U.S.
◦ Canada seeing record number of opioid deaths (Alberta, British Columbia, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan)
◦ More people are needing drugs to cope with anxiety and depression
◦ ******** overdoses increased 60% in Georgia since lockdown
◦ Every week of lockdowns increases binge drinking by 19%




Consider yourself “awared”[/QUOTE]Thanks for this. Excellent post. Once we starting to get scientific intel on this Chinese lab virus, we should have shifted our focus to protecting the most susceptible and reopening society to the least vulnerable. Instead, we allowed politics and media to drive fear based hysteria

[QUOTE=LWW;1639469223]I don’t think you read a fuking word in his post.........

Nursing homes are high risk to anything, the hysteria came from shutting stuff down that didn’t need it........

You should look around at the damage this lockdown has done, the people in most cities are now insane and most cities are to point of Chaos.[/QUOTE]Thank you. His reply had nothing to do with the points I made.

[QUOTE=KeepItMoving;1639470163]Thanks for this. Excellent post. Once we starting to get scientific intel on this Chinese lab virus, we should have shifted our focus to protecting the most susceptible and reopening society to the least vulnerable. Instead, we allowed politics and media to drive fear based hysteria[/QUOTE]

This.
We locked down because we have a widely obese and unhealthy population due to diet and lack of exercise and we can only reopen if we stick them with an experimental gene therapy that the FDA hasn’t even approved and which has a side effect profile worse than any vaccine that’s ever been administered.
Makes sense.

I still stand my position that we would have seen an increase in deaths regardless of Covid. I’ve said it before, death numbers SHOULD be going up at this time, with a 78 year average life expectancy and considering the world wide crash and then the huge boom in the 40's. The demographics alone would have given us higher deaths this last year with an expectation of it rising over the next three or four years based solely on the fact that those born at the height of the post-war boom (1946-1952) are now reaching the statistical probability of death.

We would see a natural jump right now if only due to this fact of demographics. If this is fraud they timed it perfectly to obfuscate this demographic reality. An excess mortality rate assumes there is excess mortality and doesn't prove it, and again, the data is put together by the same people with vested interests in proving a Covid 19 epidemic...

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639448233]Oh, was your hospital too busy making TikTok dance videos as well?
Cause they weren’t full of Covid patients, we know that for sure.
Hell even the ship Trump brought into NY, only 77 beds were used & it was turned away after a few weeks[/QUOTE]

The NY hospital system was on the brink of collapse if hospitalizations kept increasing as they were and the ship was there as backup. The shutdown which it appears you are saying shouldn't have happened is what saved NY from from needing the ship and becoming Italy or India at it's worst.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1623478861]Just for sh!ts and giggles lets say a vaccine for covid is available early next month. Will you be rolling up your sleeve or turning the other cheek?







I won't be first in line to say jab me with a rushed vaccine, besides if all you fukers get it I shouldn't have too. Until then I will rely on social distance, my mask apparel and newly acquired hand washing skills to keep me safe.

How about you?[/QUOTE]

Yes, but after one or two months after it gets available...

[QUOTE=Gabbar99;1639464203]I'm so sorry.

It's a tough call. My father got Covid in December. When he got really sick, we (his kids) had to make a choice whether to have them fight it aggressively in the hospital even though they were not hopeful, which would mean we'd wouldn't be able to see him. Or to move him to a hospice where we could be with him. We chose the hospice and were able to talk and sing and pray with him and hold his hand at the end. My mother died suddenly the previous year and none of us were with her and we wanted to be with our dad. Again, it was a tough call.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, my mother was elderly, but was extremely well until she contracted the virus. I'm also sorry for your loss, unless you've suffered the loss of a loved one you don't really appreciate how other bereaved families are feeling. For me at least up until my mother lost her fight with covid the toll on families that had suffered a loss was merely a set of statistics, Sadly I was to be enlightened.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639474243]The NY hospital system was on the brink of collapse if hospitalizations kept increasing as they were and the ship was there as backup. The shutdown which it appears you are saying shouldn't have happened is what saved NY from from needing the ship and becoming Italy or India at it's worst.[/QUOTE]

That is total BS. Because of the mass hysteria people were running to the hospital for no reason, which was overwhelming hospitals.

You are also forgetting my was never really locked down, you must of forgot all the damn protesting which would spread the virus as opposed to shopping for clothes.

For you to suggest the lockdown worked makes you a fool!!!!!! Had to say it, I’m so tired of the stupidity, thoughts like yours are killing society and strengthening chaos in the streets.

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639470443]This.
We locked down because we have a widely obese and unhealthy population due to diet and lack of exercise and we can only reopen if we stick them with an experimental gene therapy that the FDA hasn’t even approved and which has a side effect profile worse than any vaccine that’s ever been administered.
Makes sense.

I still stand my position that we would have seen an increase in deaths regardless of Covid. I’ve said it before, death numbers SHOULD be going up at this time, with a 78 year average life expectancy and considering the world wide crash and then the huge boom in the 40's. The demographics alone would have given us higher deaths this last year with an expectation of it rising over the next three or four years based solely on the fact that those born at the height of the post-war boom (1946-1952) are now reaching the statistical probability of death.

We would see a natural jump right now if only due to this fact of demographics. If this is fraud they timed it perfectly to obfuscate this demographic reality. An excess mortality rate assumes there is excess mortality and doesn't prove it, and again, the data is put together by the same people with vested interests in proving a Covid 19 epidemic...[/QUOTE]

If only we could get a " fit healthy population" overnight with a pandemic with little to no warning.

Are we 1991?
Any day now Americans will get fit...........


[youtube]mBz_j9EhvOo[/youtube]

[QUOTE=LWW;1639476493]That is total BS. Because of the mass hysteria people were running to the hospital for no reason, which was overwhelming hospitals.

You are also forgetting my was never really locked down, you must of forgot all the damn protesting which would spread the virus as opposed to shopping for clothes.

For you to suggest the lockdown worked makes you a fool!!!!!! Had to say it, I’m so tired of the stupidity, thoughts like yours are killing society and strengthening chaos in the streets.[/QUOTE]

No.

Approach a doctor or nurse that was working tons of overtime during the height of Covid in any city which had real Covid troubles and say that to them and report back.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639477223]No.

Approach a doctor or nurse that was working tons of overtime during the height of Covid in any city which had real Covid troubles and say that to them and report back.[/QUOTE]

you think you are smart but there was no fuking lock down really because of protesting.

In a lockdown the streets are empty, fuk u and your India BS the protesting was a super spreader not clothes shopping.

Stop defending the BS.......

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639477223]No.

Approach a doctor or nurse that was working tons of overtime during the height of Covid in any city which had real Covid troubles and say that to them and report back.[/QUOTE]

It was like these dudes were not on Earth a year ago and did not witness the same things that we did, what the actual fk!?

[QUOTE=LWW;1639477753]you think you are smart but there was no fuking lock down really because of protesting.

In a lockdown the streets are empty, fuk u and your India BS the protesting was a super spreader not clothes shopping.

Stop defending the BS.......[/QUOTE]

Shutdown?

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639477763]It was like these dudes were not on Earth a year ago and did not witness the same things that we did, what the actual fk!?[/QUOTE]

Some people want to think the earth is flat too. Interesting world.

[QUOTE=gym62richard;1639475173]Thank you, my mother was elderly, but was extremely well until she contracted the virus. I'm also sorry for your loss, unless you've suffered the loss of a loved one you don't really appreciate how other bereaved families are feeling. For me at least up until my mother lost her fight with covid the toll on families that had suffered a loss was merely a set of statistics, Sadly I was to be enlightened.[/QUOTE]

Well sorry, but my grand pop died during all this too, the guy was in excellent health, worked a physical job into his late 80s he caught another virus the previous year and slowly died from it, one day he was fine, the next he was in a hospital for half a year, then had a home nurse for the other half while he was whithering away............

Biden can kiss my azz with his empty chairs campaign.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639478033]Shutdown?



Some people want to think the earth is flat too. Interesting world.[/QUOTE]

Lockdown/shutdown, you and Ben can continue to go 69 azz munch each other.........

Ben was out protesting a year ago............

[QUOTE=LWW;1639478233]Well sorry, but my grand pop died during all this too, the guy was in excellent health, worked a physical job into his late 80s he caught another virus the previous year and slowly died from it, one day he was fine, the next he was in a hospital for half a year, then had a home nurse for the other half while he was whithering away............

Biden can kiss my azz with his empty chairs campaign.[/QUOTE]

Kool Story Bro!

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639474243]The NY hospital system was on the brink of collapse if hospitalizations kept increasing as they were and the ship was there as backup. The shutdown which it appears you are saying shouldn't have happened is what saved NY from from needing the ship and becoming Italy or India at it's worst.[/QUOTE]

Umm..no, those TikTok dance videos were coming out of NY hospitals as well..& those shut downs did not prove to save a single life..nor did the masks.
As far as Italy..again..not quite..

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wuFazgpc4&list=FLSufaYqUYzQ032aVfRijWFw&index=4[/url]

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639476733]If only we could get a " fit healthy population" overnight with a pandemic with little to no warning.

Are we 1991?
Any day now Americans will get fit...........


[youtube]mBz_j9EhvOo[/youtube][/QUOTE]

A pandemic? Just lol. There is no such thing as an asymptomatic Pandemic. When someone is sick, it is not a symptomatic, meaning without symptoms. A person with symptoms the temperature will normally increase or generally feel unwell. A Pandemic has sick people dying in the streets. This has never been seen with this “pandemic”..never once. Dead bodies carried out of homes as what happened during the Black Plague. The Black Plague was caused by no acces to clean water..now who else did I say has no/little access to clean water?

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639479423]Umm..no, those TikTok dance videos were coming out of NY hospitals as well..& those shut downs did not prove to save a single life..nor did the masks.
As far as Italy..again..not quite..

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wuFazgpc4&list=FLSufaYqUYzQ032aVfRijWFw&index=4[/url][/QUOTE]

[Img]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DazzlingPeriodicGnatcatcher-size_restricted.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639478553]Kool Story Bro![/QUOTE]

Going there?
I’ve heard plenty from you, how’s Aunt doing?

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639480113][Img]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DazzlingPeriodicGnatcatcher-size_restricted.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

I know, facts can be a bitch to deal with sometimes..huh?

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639480843]I know, facts can be a bitch to deal with sometimes..huh?[/QUOTE]

I must have missed the facts.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639481223]I must have missed the facts.[/QUOTE]

Death rate by age group:
0-19yrs is 0.00003
20-39yrs is 0.0002
40-59yrs is 0.005
70+ yrs is 0.054

Ouch

Quite the Pandemic. I remember all those months that I never stopped working only to see people dropping in the streets...

Oh wait..

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639479913]A pandemic? Just lol. There is no such thing as an asymptomatic Pandemic. When someone is sick, it is not a symptomatic, meaning without symptoms. A person with symptoms the temperature will normally increase or generally feel unwell. A Pandemic has sick people dying in the streets. This has never been seen with this “pandemic”..never once. Dead bodies carried out of homes as what happened during the Black Plague. The Black Plague was caused by no acces to clean water..now who else did I say has no/little access to clean water?[/QUOTE]

So why would we need to lose weight, suddenly....... in 2020?
If there is no such thing, and obesity isn't an issue, why not let fat people be fat.
We have been trying since 91( see above Arnold video) and it Ain't workin.....


Your quote
"We locked down because we have a widely obese and unhealthy population due to diet and lack of exercise"

[QUOTE=LWW;1639480753]Going there?
I’ve heard plenty from you, how’s Aunt doing?[/QUOTE]

Listen here Rachael Maddow,
i am not following your logic or premise

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639483073]So why would we need to lose weight, suddenly....... in 2020?
If there is no such thing, and obesity isn't an issue, why not let fat people be fat.
We have been trying since 91( see above Arnold video) and it Ain't workin.....[/QUOTE]

Oh, Obesity is a problem now?
I guess you skipped on the free Krispy Kreame donut with your jab ...huh?

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639483163]Listen here Rachael Maddow,
i am not following your logic or premise[/QUOTE]

Keep your boyfriend Maddow out of it!

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639481483]Death rate by age group:
0-19yrs is 0.00003
20-39yrs is 0.0002
40-59yrs is 0.005
70+ yrs is 0.054

Ouch

Quite the Pandemic. I remember all those months that I never stopped working only to see people dropping in the streets...

Oh wait..[/QUOTE]

My first few results on Google are very different (and different from each other). You are clearly cherry picking data to support what you want to believe. Not exactly my definition of facts.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639486793]My first few results on Google are very different (and different from each other). You are clearly cherry picking data to support what you want to believe. Not exactly my definition of facts.[/QUOTE]

When I put on my tin foil hat, my logic would say, that's by design. Just lol at using Google to find resources. Been proven time and time again that they manipulate search results and censor them.

US, 33million cases, 1/2 million deaths so 1 person in 66 died??

OK, just for sh!ts and giggles, let's say every single person in US had the virus and most didn't realize, so 333Million and 1/2M died so 1/666 that is still a 0.15% death rate

No matter how I play with numbers I can't get to your figures Paul, where did they come from?

Edit: Quite possibly I messed up the Math (I do that more often than I'd like to admit) so if I've gone nuts there please jump on that

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639483263]Oh, Obesity is a problem now?
I guess you skipped on the free Krispy Kreame donut with your jab ...huh?[/QUOTE]


Never for me but i have been into sports and fitness since my dad got me into this at 13/14.
The cross training, with a bunch of other sports was natural because i was good at them.
I guess i was trying to understand how the "fat public" would suddenly get in shape fast in the middle of a crisis/pandemic/lockdown/insert..... any name Paul feels most comfortable with?
Yeah i said suddenly, with no warning it was coming; people barely know how to eat intelligently.
Whatever you want to label this period from Feb 2020 to now, no one is dropping weight quickly and suddenly getting fit.
That was the takeaway message.

i don't eat krispy creme, it isn't local and eating air bread isn't satisfying

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639486793]My first few results on Google are very different (and different from each other). You are clearly cherry picking data to support what you want to believe. Not exactly my definition of facts.[/QUOTE]

Psst same with flu date year over year; you were warned......

[QUOTE=_zman;1639487783]When I put on my tin foil hat, my logic would say, that's by design. Just lol at using Google to find resources. Been proven time and time again that they manipulate search results and censor them.[/QUOTE]

I think there are plenty of people in this world that don't cherry pick varied statistics just to try and prove a point. Bias is by design, but to deliberately censor reality to further your own narrative isn't.

If you don't use Google what do you use? Obviously Google yields results of very varied quality but how are you finding resources without an internet search engine in 2021?

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1639488423]US, 33million cases, 1/2 million deaths so 1 person in 66 died??

OK, just for sh!ts and giggles, let's say every single person in US had the virus and most didn't realize, so 333Million and 1/2M died so 1/666 that is still a 0.15% death rate

[b]No matter how I play with numbers I can't get to your figures Paul, where did they come from?[/b]

Edit: Quite possibly I messed up the Math (I do that more often than I'd like to admit) so if I've gone nuts there please jump on that[/QUOTE]

Some conspiracy theory website that will also tell you the earth is flat and has "facts" to prove it. Just my guess.

Paul, I can't quote your post saying the lockdowns did more harm than good or the "death rates". So were those death rates supposed to be the CFRs, or the IFRs? Either way, 5.4% is a pretty high mortality rate, as is .5%.

There are something like 80 million people in the US between 40 and 59, so if we apply your .5% mortality rate to them, it's 400,000 deaths. You left out the 60-69 year olds, so we'd need to apply a higher to them, right? Another 400,000 deaths? With the lockdowns the virus still infected a large% of the population in just one year, but you want to pull possible deaths for in other countries to show they weren't doing some good in the US? Without them, we'd have had more cases and that would have potentially resulted in an even higher mortality rate in each age group.

You really need to avoid taking so many things out of context. It's possible you just don't understand, but you should learn. Look at your biggest potential source for increased mortality from the lockdowns. TB cases. 1.4 million is plausible, but it's the worst case scenario from a model of what could happen if no additional intervention is done to speed up the return to normal treatments globally. In India, one of the countries with the greatest potential increased mortality in that model, the worst case scenario is an increase of ~70K deaths due to TB, over 5 years/ month of lock down. Their COVID mortality rate went over 4k per day, so an actual 120K per month rate, vs a worst case scenario of 70K per 5 years per month of lockdown. Do math Paul, you're comparing a potential mortality increase of 1,700 per month increase to an actual rate of over 4000 per day when they stopped the lockdowns. If that's not clear enough, just realize you're pulling random numbers from calculations done on TB, Malaria, and HIV in third world countries modeled over years, and ignoring that those are possible deaths in populations that would have extremely high mortality rate from SARS cov2. Your math doesn't actually show what you want it to show. It actually supports the lockdowns and vaccines, but unfortunately, you again didn't understand or bother learning to read the data.

I'm not arguing the lockdowns were well thought out or implemented. I'm only pointing out that even when you cherry pick the data points you think support your theories that the vaccines aren't helpful or that the lockdowns increased mortality, those data points don't actually support them. Sorry.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639489053]I think there are plenty of people in this world that don't cherry pick varied statistics just to try and prove a point. Bias is by design, but to deliberately censor reality to further your own narrative isn't.

If you don't use Google what do you use? Obviously Google yields results of very varied quality but how are you finding resources without an internet search engine in 2021?
[/QUOTE]

If there's something I deeply looking into, in this case Corona. I read what doctors, scientists and epidemiologists publish directly or tell me directly. If I'm looking for statistics, I review books, peer-reviewed articles and the WSJ. If I can't find what I'm looking for I would turn to DuckDuckGo and Google if I'm desperate. Then I compare everything I've read. In this case, most information regarding Corona is a complete dumpster fire tho. What I'm saying is, I wouldn't Google something related to Corona and call it a day.

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1639489713]Paul, I can't quote your post saying the lockdowns did more harm than good or the "death rates". So were those death rates supposed to be the CFRs, or the IFRs? Either way, 5.4% is a pretty high mortality rate, as is .5%.

There are something like 80 million people in the US between 40 and 59, so if we apply your .5% mortality rate to them, it's 400,000 deaths. You left out the 60-69 year olds, so we'd need to apply a higher to them, right? Another 400,000 deaths? With the lockdowns the virus still infected a large% of the population in just one year, but you want to pull possible deaths for in other countries to show they weren't doing some good in the US? Without them, we'd have had more cases and that would have potentially resulted in an even higher mortality rate in each age group.

You really need to avoid taking so many things out of context. It's possible you just don't understand, but you should learn. Look at your biggest potential source for increased mortality from the lockdowns. TB cases. 1.4 million is plausible, but it's the worst case scenario from a model of what could happen if no additional intervention is done to decrease the return to normal treatments globally. In India, one of the countries with the greatest potential increased mortality in that model, the worst case scenario is an increase of ~70K deaths due to TB, over 5 years/ month of lock down. Their COVID mortality rate went over 4k per day, so an actual 120K per month rate, vs a worst case scenario of 70K per 5 years per month of lockdown. Do math Paul, you're comparing a potential mortality increase of 1,700 per month increase to an actual rate of over 4000 per day when they stopped the lockdowns. If that's not clear enough, just realize you're pulling random numbers from calculations done on TB, Malaria, and HIV in third world countries modeled over years, and ignoring that those are possible deaths in populations that would have extremely high mortality rate from SARS cov2. Your math doesn't actually show what you want it to show. It actually supports the lockdowns and vaccines, but unfortunately, you again didn't understand or bother learning to read the data.

I'm not arguing the lockdowns were well thought out or implemented. I'm only pointing out that even when you cherry pick the data points you think support your theories that the vaccines aren't helpful or that the lockdowns increased mortality, those data points don't actually support them. Sorry.[/QUOTE]

I was wondering when you'd come in on this. And like Batman appearing in the night, here you are with another intelligent response. I commend your patience and dare you to enter some of the regular misc threads involving Covid, vaccines, etc, ... lol.

[QUOTE=_zman;1639490173]If there's something I deeply looking into, in this case Corona. I read what doctors, scientists and epidemiologists publish directly or tell me directly. If I'm looking for statistics, I review books, peer-reviewed articles and the WSJ. If I can't find what I'm looking for I would turn to DuckDuckGo and Google if I'm desperate. Then I compare everything I've read. In this case, most information regarding Corona is a complete dumpster fire tho. What I'm saying is, I wouldn't Google something related to Corona and call it a day.[/QUOTE]

I mean you can get to all those things through Google. Nothing wrong with Google IMO, as long as you keep in mind the validity of each search result you may consider getting information from.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639490573]I was wondering when you'd come in on this. And like Batman appearing in the night, here you are with another intelligent response. I commend your patience and dare you to enter some of the regular misc threads involving Covid, vaccines, etc, ... lol.
[/QUOTE]

You can have a conversation with an epidemiologist on Google? Was not aware.
You can get WSJ articles on Google thru the paywall? Also, not aware.
You can get research papers that are in medical center's databases through Google? Was not aware.

Just let me know how to do that, would save me some time.

[QUOTE=_zman;1639491093]You can have a conversation with an epidemiologist on Google? Was not aware.
You can get WSJ articles on Google thru the paywall? Also, not aware.
You can get research papers that are in medical center's databases through Google? Was not aware.

Just let me know how to do that, would save me some time.[/QUOTE]

I am going to assume you knew my intentions and are just having a giggle. I did miss the "tell me directly" part of your post though. If a source is legitimate I don't need information first hand. You do? If the NEJM posts something do you not believe it because you didn't hear it from the doctors first hand? lmao

I've been vaccinated and here's what drove my decision to do so:

1. From a purely anecdotal standpoint (i.e. I'm not going to argue over the global severity of Covid), I saw family and friends become extremely ill. And, natural antibodies didn't last long; my brother caught it twice in six months (two positive tests) and was hospitalized once. He is a healthy 35 year old and I wasn't going to roll those dice.

2. I did my research on the vaccine and found out that it wasn't something that was slapped together in the space of months. It is based off of an existing vaccine for the SARS virus (Covid is a variant of SARs) and that SARs vaccine reportedly took over a decade to develop. The biochemistry behind the development of this Covid vaccine simply piggy-backed off of the SARs vaccine.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639490573]I was wondering when you'd come in on this. And like Batman appearing in the night, here you are with another intelligent response. I commend your patience and dare you to enter some of the regular misc threads involving Covid, vaccines, etc, ... lol.
[/QUOTE]

First time I've ever been compared to Batman. Likely the last too :) I probably missed a lot of good threads, although I have I posted on threads about that silly observational study by Dr. Raoult in France, the one that really started the hydroxychloroquine debate a while back. I was on the "red states getting rek'd" sillyness thread that deteriorated into name calling and personal insults. Oh, also the natural vs vaccine immunity thread.
There were good posts on all of them and there are several guys on this thread and those who have some serious knowledge bases on virology and epidemiology.

The lockdowns did a lot of harm to a lot of people, and I could argue for and against many aspects of how they were implemented, so I'm not trying to be Batman or make Paul the Joker here. Paul has some reasonable concerns and raises important points in many posts. I have some understanding of how difficult it is to try and evaluate whether the lockdowns did more good than harm. There are too many variables and the answers also depend on what you value. I'm probably too harsh when I respond to him if I think he's using data incorrectly to try and show there's a simple answer or obvious answer to that question of good vs harm.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639491833]I am going to assume you knew my intentions and are just having a giggle. I did miss the "tell me directly" part of your post though. If a source is legitimate I don't need information first hand. You do? If the NEJM posts something do you not believe it because you didn't hear it from the doctors first hand? lmao[/QUOTE]

[img]https://media1.giphy.com/media/EWGVEOwZIk8yA/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493bfrsf05ujo51p9dyw0c8oxh1ico85s18kttoigp4l&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/img]

[QUOTE=LWW;1639478233]Well sorry, but my grand pop died during all this too, the guy was in excellent health, worked a physical job into his late 80s he caught another virus the previous year and slowly died from it, one day he was fine, the next he was in a hospital for half a year, then had a home nurse for the other half while he was whithering away............

Biden can kiss my azz with his empty chairs campaign.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about your Grand Pop, but why the hell do you bring everything back to politics, I live in the UK and don't have any particular opinions about Joe Biden or US government policy.

[QUOTE=mdonnelly80;1639492733]I've been vaccinated and here's what drove my decision to do so:

1. From a purely anecdotal standpoint (i.e. I'm not going to argue over the global severity of Covid), I saw family and friends become extremely ill. And, natural antibodies didn't last long; my brother caught it twice in six months (two positive tests) and was hospitalized once. He is a healthy 35 year old and I wasn't going to roll those dice.

2. [b]I did my research on the vaccine and found out that it wasn't something that was slapped together[/b] in the space of months. It is based off of an existing vaccine for the SARS virus (Covid is a variant of SARs) and that SARs vaccine reportedly took over a decade to develop. The biochemistry behind the development of this Covid vaccine simply piggy-backed off of the SARs vaccine.[/QUOTE]

That alone puts you ahead of most miscers from what I can see. lol

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1639493243]First time I've ever been compared to Batman. Likely the last too :) I probably missed a lot of good threads, although I have I posted on threads about that silly observational study by Dr. Raoult in France, the one that really started the hydroxychloroquine debate a while back. I was on the "red states getting rek'd" sillyness thread that deteriorated into name calling and personal insults. Oh, also the natural vs vaccine immunity thread.
There were good posts on all of them and there are several guys on this thread and those who have some serious knowledge bases on virology and epidemiology.

The lockdowns did a lot of harm to a lot of people, and I could argue for and against many aspects of how they were implemented, so I'm not trying to be Batman or make Paul the Joker here. Paul has some reasonable concerns and raises important points in many posts. I have some understanding of how difficult it is to try and evaluate whether the lockdowns did more good than harm. There are too many variables and the answers also depend on what you value. I'm probably too harsh when I respond to him if I think he's using data incorrectly to try and show there's a simple answer or obvious answer to that question of good vs harm.[/QUOTE]

On a very surface level I agree on shutdowns and necessity when it comes to where, how long, etc. It's really hard to say. My point to Paul was that he was saying the med ship brought to NY was barely used in one post, then saying we didn't need to do shutdowns in a following post. Being in NY and working in healthcare I am sure that ship would have been used to overflow if we carried on with life as normal.

And just now I am realizing Paul is the same poster who was saying people with Covid antibodies should have been in vaccine clinical trials. I find it hard to keep everyone around here straight unless they really stand out like yourself. If you are too harsh I am way worse since I can't keep posters straight and just seemingly lump the people with the same mindsets together, which is clearly wrong.

[QUOTE=gym62richard;1639494463]Sorry about your Grand Pop, but why the hell do you bring everything back to politics, I live in the UK and don't have any particular opinions about Joe Biden or US government policy.[/QUOTE]

Far too many people in the US are so miserable about political outcomes that they tie everything in life to it.