Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=litljay;1644198653]Have you seen the actual data suggesting delta can replicate in similar numbers in the vaccinated? I've seen/heard it said, but haven't seen any actual data.[/QUOTE]

It’s not detailed (meant for the general public) but the figure on bottom pg. 3 is helpful. Dane county data [url]https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/2021-07-29_data_snapshot.pdf[/url] The CDC apparently has similar preliminary results, but I’ve yet to see the data.

That said, the virus is almost certainly not replicating as extensively in the vaccinated group. What the CDC has claimed is that there are equal viral loads in specimens taken from the upper respiratory tract. That is not the same as equal viral loads throughout the body, such as in LRT where severe disease complications usually arise. Also they need to check for putatively replicating virus, not just rna.

[QUOTE=eomrat;1644200683]It's a shame there isn't a way to somehow perform an automated query of all the computers hooked up to the internet to see if that data exists.[/QUOTE]

Go ahead, I'll let you search for it since it's NOT been peer reviewed and published yet as far as I'm aware. That's why I'm asking. Thanks for your sarcasm though.

[QUOTE=litljay;1644198653]Have you seen the actual data suggesting delta can replicate in similar numbers in the vaccinated? I've seen/heard it said, but haven't seen any actual data.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I actually did read couple of studies. The caveat is that those were going by PCR cycles from nasal samples, so you bring up a good point. I'm breaking a cardinal rule by assuming the similar nasal load in vaccinated breakthrough cases and unvaccinated individuals correlates with systemic load. Given the decreased symptoms, there's a good chance it isn't the same, in which case vaccinated delta carriers are only equally likely to spread the virus, but would not be as likely to be the nidus of a new concerning strain. Either way, since we're less likely to show symptoms and can have the same nasal load of virus, masking to protect others still makes sense.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1644201113]It’s not detailed (meant for the general public) but the figure on bottom pg. 3 is helpful. Dane county data [url]https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/2021-07-29_data_snapshot.pdf[/url] The CDC apparently has similar preliminary results, but I’ve yet to see the data.

That said, the virus is almost certainly not replicating as extensively in the vaccinated group. What the CDC has claimed is that there are equal viral loads in specimens taken from the upper respiratory tract. That is not the same as equal viral loads throughout the body, such as in LRT where severe disease complications usually arise. Also they need to check for putatively replicating virus, not just rna.[/QUOTE]

Excellent answer. Wouldn't have bothered if I'd seen this.




[QUOTE=LWW;1644195963]You are weak and a wimp cause you just blindly follow.

I think critically, I’m smart your dumb, kiss my azx[/QUOTE]

It's so tempting to respond with "I'm rubber, you're glue...

[QUOTE=litljay;1644201163]Go ahead, I'll let you search for it since it's NOT been peer reviewed and published yet as far as I'm aware. That's why I'm asking. Thanks for your sarcasm though.[/QUOTE]

If peer review is important to you, you may not have a clear understanding of what that process actually involves.

[QUOTE=eomrat;1644202393]If peer review is important to you, you may not have a clear understanding of what that process actually involves.[/QUOTE]

Did you not see the other 2 excellent responses above? That data doesn't come up easily in a google search. Though, I guess you would rather spend time just being an ass.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1644198083]Probably safer for the unvaccinated to eat outside on the patio if possible.[/QUOTE]

SAfety first, kiddie proof everything for Pockets, the boogie man is here.

[QUOTE=LWW;1644196643]I don’t agree with sections in a restaurant but it’s better than turning the unvaccinated away.

Anyone who does should just be shot, there’s no hope in that type of humanity.[/QUOTE]

If my servers ask me for vaccine papers I will simply inform them they are no longer needed.

If my servents can’t give me their vaccine papers they are fired.

Now go get your booster, tater, you’re due on height and strength alone.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1644198453]Pres. Biden thanks companies like Walmart, Google and Tysons for requiring vaccinations for their employees and calls out states that have banned mask mandates: "What are we doing? COVID-19 is a national challenge. And we have to come together...as a country to solve it."[/QUOTE]

To be fair, somebody else wrote that while he probably looked in the mirror and said his name over and over to remember it.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1644201113]It’s not detailed (meant for the general public) but the figure on bottom pg. 3 is helpful. Dane county data [url]https://publichealthmdc.com/documents/2021-07-29_data_snapshot.pdf[/url] The CDC apparently has similar preliminary results, but I’ve yet to see the data.

That said, the virus is almost certainly not replicating as extensively in the vaccinated group. What the CDC has claimed is that there are equal viral loads in specimens taken from the upper respiratory tract. That is not the same as equal viral loads throughout the body, such as in LRT where severe disease complications usually arise. Also they need to check for putatively replicating virus, not just rna.[/QUOTE]

For a PhD you are dumber than fuk. You should really take more micro.

Systemic immunity does not take place in the upper respiratory tract. That’s where the virus spreads from. Viral infections are a battle waged at the cellular level in the interstitial spaces by macro****es and white blood cells, and if at the intracellular level, the cells have identified enough genomic sequence of that specific antigen to create a cell mediated response. It’s way beyond a surface protein that wasn’t even known to be important to the virus. Learn more about the small things, the bigger picture will make a lot more sense.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1644217413]
Now go get your booster, tater, you’re due on height and strength alone.[/QUOTE]

Getting stonrger every week without a booster.

Lets see you do a bottoms up squat at depth, starting from the bottom, that means no momentum with over 365?

And no belt or wraps, raw.

[QUOTE=LWW;1644196643]I don’t agree with sections in a restaurant but it’s better than turning the unvaccinated away.

Anyone who does should just be shot, there’s no hope in that type of humanity.[/QUOTE]

So, what you’re saying is; I could come as an unwelcome guest to your house, and if you decided you didn’t want me there, I’d be justified in shooting you? I don’t know man, I think you might be operating at a deficit, but sometimes your statements and beliefs are contradictory and antagonistic.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1644218983]Good for you. I’m married, to a female, we do other stuff.[/QUOTE]


I didn't think you would or could.

[QUOTE=LWW;1644219213]I didn't think you would or could.[/QUOTE]

To put it bluntly, No Homo. This isn’t truth or dare brah.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1644219853]To put it bluntly, No Homo. This isn’t truth or dare brah.[/QUOTE]


keep hiding, you use Covid to avoid training anyway, anything to not do it today.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1644217593]
Systemic immunity does not take place in the upper respiratory tract. That’s where the virus spreads from. Viral infections are a battle waged at the cellular level in the interstitial spaces by macro****es and white blood cells, and if at the intracellular level, the cells have identified enough genomic sequence of that specific antigen to create a cell mediated response. It’s way beyond a surface protein that wasn’t even known to be important to the virus[/QUOTE]

Logged in to post this, you totally Walter Whited my Jesse Pinkman. :D

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1644217593]For a PhD you are dumber than fuk. You should really take more micro.

Systemic immunity does not take place in the upper respiratory tract. That’s where the virus spreads from. Viral infections are a battle waged at the cellular level in the interstitial spaces by macro****es and white blood cells, and if at the intracellular level, the cells have identified enough genomic sequence of that specific antigen to create a cell mediated response. It’s way beyond a surface protein that wasn’t even known to be important to the virus. Learn more about the small things, the bigger picture will make a lot more sense.[/QUOTE]


This is expected of you. On more than one occasion I’ve seen you make elementary mistakes in your posts. I’ll correct them again. To add, your descriptions of basic immunology are shameful.

Pathogens have differential tissue tropism, and one of the factors that influences this tropism is how well the immune system, both innate and adaptive, control pathogen growth rates. Influenza for example is more likely to disseminate to and aggressively replicate in the lungs of immunocompromised hosts. Immunity induced through vaccination, both cell-mediated and humoral, can do the same thing. This is why for example, AstraZeneca’s vaccine did not significantly lower replicating virus in the URT but it did in the LRT of macaques during animal studies. By doing this it also reduced disease severity. Your comment about systemic immunity has no relevance. Immune players (including adaptive) are recruitable to tissues.

Some pro tips for next time: Don’t say macro****e and white blood cells. Macro****es are white blood cells. Also not all intracellular mechanisms for destroying pathogens are via cell-mediated responses. The rest of your post has no relevance. “It’s way beyond a surface protein that wasn’t even known to be important to the virus.” Trying way too hard my dude. The very obvious point of my post is that vaccine induced immunity can differentially affect pathogen replication in the lower vs upper respiratory tract. Do you deny this?

[QUOTE=LWW;1644183093]I knew you were stupid if you think I’m as stupid as that chick.

First of all, the mask is a feel good thing, you can still get this Thit even with a fuking mask. If I’m around someone vulnerable like inside thier home I will mask for their benefit, I won’t hiwever change my fuking culture to satasfy CHYNA or be a fuking moron and wear a mask alone outside.

The virus don’t spread by walking to your fuking table if that was the case there’s no point in even sitting down and removing the mask.[/QUOTE]

She’s not atall stupid. You’re another level

That name calling - wow. You’re worse than the grumpiest spoilt entitled momma’s boys and bishes. I’d love to see your drunk. You probably go home with two black eyes every time. Am I right or am I right?

[QUOTE=LWW;1644184093]LIsten up, you clowns want to talk about not passing science and the scientists, you azzholes forget that Fauci called masks a feel good thing.

That’s the only truth that mofo has told but CHYNA didn’t want that plus the masks are being made in CHYNA, believe want you want to numbnuts but the truth is in that haystack, the true believers you fukers are!!!![/QUOTE]

Everything you touch and wear and sleep on has origins in China. Cuz it’s cheaper to make it there.

They did it and they let it happen. I wonder why

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1644225853]This is expected of you. On more than one occasion I’ve seen you make elementary mistakes in your posts. I’ll correct them again. To add, your descriptions of basic immunology are shameful.

Pathogens have differential tissue tropism, and one of the factors that influences this tropism is how well the immune system, both innate and adaptive, control pathogen growth rates. Influenza for example is more likely to disseminate to and aggressively replicate in the lungs of immunocompromised hosts. Immunity induced through vaccination, both cell-mediated and humoral, can do the same thing. This is why for example, AstraZeneca’s vaccine did not significantly lower replicating virus in the URT but it did in the LRT of macaques during animal studies. By doing this it also reduced disease severity. Your comment about systemic immunity has no relevance. Immune players (including adaptive) are recruitable to tissues.

Some pro tips for next time: Don’t say macro****e and white blood cells. Macro****es are white blood cells. Also not all intracellular mechanisms for destroying pathogens are via cell-mediated responses. The rest of your post has no relevance. “It’s way beyond a surface protein that wasn’t even known to be important to the virus.” Trying way too hard my dude. The very obvious point of my post is that vaccine induced immunity can differentially affect pathogen replication in the lower vs upper respiratory tract. Do you deny this?[/QUOTE]

Well it's a forum and I'm not spending 3 hours copying and pasting things from medical journals, so there will be occasional mistakes. Macro****es are a type of white blood cell, part of the immune system, but not antigen specific as is the case with cell mediated response and long-term immunity. Disease severity can be lowered, but that doesn't necessarily change communicability of the virus, remember two weeks to flatten the curve cause asymptomatic spreaders? I argue that disease severity is pretty low if you don't know you have the virus. Do you agree? The virus infects more than the lungs, and I don't really care how Astra Zeneca and test monkeys. I don't follow the vaccine scene other than seeing that they are not doing a very good job currently in preventing infections/transmission. They do appear to reduce symptoms and risk of a sever outcome and I've posted that numerous times, but I have not looked into the physiological mechanism, in humans or monkeys.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1644143513] it’d be financially stupid to move at this point.[/QUOTE]

This was my assumption.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/o3uduQL.jpg[/img]



Actress Jennifer Aniston recently said people who are not yet vaccinated against COVID-19 “just don’t listen to facts” and mostly base their opinions on “fear or propaganda” and revealed that she’s cut ties with the unvaccinated.

Taking it a step further, Aniston said that it’s a “moral and professional obligation” for the unvaccinated to identify themselves in public settings.

“There’s still a large group of people who are anti-vaxxers or just don’t listen to the facts. It’s a real shame,” the former “Friends” actress told InStyle. “I’ve just lost a few people in my weekly routine who have refused or did not disclose [whether or not they had been vaccinated], and it was unfortunate.”

“I feel it’s your moral and professional obligation to inform, since we’re not all podded up and being tested every single day,” the 52-year-old added. “It’s tricky because everyone is entitled to their own opinion — but a lot of opinions don’t feel based in anything except fear or propaganda.”

[img]https://i.imgur.com/m2TiCoV.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1644238603]“It’s tricky because everyone is entitled to their own opinion — but a lot of opinions don’t feel based in anything except fear or propaganda.”[/QUOTE]

Big pharma clearly got to her. And the irony here is palpable.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1644238603][img]https://i.imgur.com/o3uduQL.jpg[/img]



Actress Jennifer Aniston recently said people who are not yet vaccinated against COVID-19 “just don’t listen to facts” and mostly base their opinions on “fear or propaganda” and revealed that she’s cut ties with the unvaccinated.

Taking it a step further, Aniston said that it’s a “moral and professional obligation” for the unvaccinated to identify themselves in public settings.

“There’s still a large group of people who are anti-vaxxers or just don’t listen to the facts. It’s a real shame,” the former “Friends” actress told InStyle. “I’ve just lost a few people in my weekly routine who have refused or did not disclose [whether or not they had been vaccinated], and it was unfortunate.”

“I feel it’s your moral and professional obligation to inform, since we’re not all podded up and being tested every single day,” the 52-year-old added. “It’s tricky because everyone is entitled to their own opinion — but a lot of opinions don’t feel based in anything except fear or propaganda.”[/QUOTE]

lol @ fear of government tyranny and the collectivist mindset being "immoral" and propaganda.

lol @ a celebrity living by the same rules as everyone else and being out of touch with reality. Compliance among the elite is different than compliance of the poor and blue collars.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1644234483]Well it's a forum and I'm not spending 3 hours copying and pasting things from medical journals, so there will be occasional mistakes. Macro****es are a type of white blood cell, part of the immune system, but not antigen specific as is the case with cell mediated response and long-term immunity. Disease severity can be lowered, but that doesn't necessarily change communicability of the virus, remember two weeks to flatten the curve cause asymptomatic spreaders? I argue that disease severity is pretty low if you don't know you have the virus. Do you agree? The virus infects more than the lungs, and I don't really care how Astra Zeneca and test monkeys. I don't follow the vaccine scene other than seeing that they are not doing a very good job currently in preventing infections/transmission. They do appear to reduce symptoms and risk of a sever outcome and I've posted that numerous times, but I have not looked into the physiological mechanism, in humans or monkeys.[/QUOTE]

You're ignoring an enormous portion of the immune system simply because most of the preliminary research on SARS CoV2 has focused on cellular and not humoral immunity. On top of the fact that we have NALT and BALT, it would be foolish to assume cytokines, secretory IgA, and a host of other immune responses utilized by your nasal mucosa don't have an effect on infection or transmission. It's important to know what we don't know, and not make statements that imply what we don't completely understand yet isn't relevant. Humoral immunity is probably very important against CoV2.

You say the vaccines don't seem to be preventing infection/transmission well, but that's a very vague statement. The R numbers are hugely affected by behavior. It's not all about the vaccines, which is why masks are still important. Especially when we don't have a vaccine against the strain with the highest R naught.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/FVZQHOI.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1644245843][img]https://i.imgur.com/FVZQHOI.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

Particularly dangerous for the elderly and women in their 20s.

I have no idea what y'all talking aboot viral loads etc. and can't even do sober math crew. which is like a disability but that's another topic.

So, 70% of population has had at least one dose and of those rest, probably half has natural immunity from virus or are kids? Why are those unvaxxed being bullied so much, I mean it is getting weird at this point.

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1644245593]You're ignoring an enormous portion of the immune system simply because most of the preliminary research on SARS CoV2 has focused on cellular and not humoral immunity. On top of the fact that we have NALT and BALT, it would be foolish to assume cytokines, secretory IgA, and a host of other immune responses utilized by your nasal mucosa don't have an effect on infection or transmission. It's important to know what we don't know, and not make statements that imply what we don't completely understand yet isn't relevant. Humoral immunity is probably very important against CoV2.

[b]You say the vaccines don't seem to be preventing infection/transmission well, but that's a very vague statement. The R numbers are hugely affected by behavior. It's not all about the vaccines, which is why masks are still important. Especially when we don't have a vaccine against the strain with the highest R naught. [/b][/QUOTE]

Yes there are a lot of things not fully understood in immunology.

As for the bolded, my point is that's a pretty $hity "vaccine" then. More like a preemptive treatment. Vaccines are supposed to create immunity, correct? So when they don't, is that called a "vaccine failure"? I'm glad the smallpox vaccine was more effective than this. I still 100% agree it has benefits and at risk people should get it for the reduction of chance of a bad outcome, but the push for everyone to get vaccinated with a vaccine that doesn't prevent infection, and doesn't prevent transmission seems kind of silly, don't you think? It's available for those who want it, it will likely reduce their course of illness, but it is not without risk in and of itself (as is the case with about everything).

Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.

[url]https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm[/url]