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[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1650902353]Horrible experiences like what?
Plz do share.[/QUOTE]Hey Ben, sure thing.
In 1998, I was stationed in Ft. Drum NY as a line medic in a light infantry battalion during the anthrax scare. This was back when it was believed Saddam Hussein was using anthrax as a bioweapon and it was being sent through the mail. The U.S. Army retained the company BioPort to produce a vaccine; BioThrax and began administering the product to soldiers slated for deployment to Iraq almost 17 years before it obtained it's blessing from the FDA (which occurred only after formula changes and further testing in 2015). They had large amount of batches that contained squalene. It was an experimental adjuvant not approved for use and was eventually deemed the culprit.
As a battalion line medic, we began force administration of the vaccine to all personnel. I witnessed nearly every single soldier experience symptoms, from the mild to the severe. Acute symptoms I witnessed included, varying levels of swelling at the site to include allergic type reactions, mobility issues, dizziness, swelling of the throat and face and extensive fatigue. Many of the administered medics voiced concern and one of my fellow medics was removed from duty for failure to comply.
I later found out that the original anthrax vaccine was responsible for cases of multiple sclerosis, Lupus, blindness, neurological conditions and is now being linked to being the cause of Gulf War Syndrome. It was found nearly 85% of soldiers reported some level of side effects. I still harbor guilt over my involvement.
If people want to get the vaccine; I think they should (albeit with caution) and if they have reservations (for whatever reason), than I think that is fine too. However, I whole heartedly believe that anyone that supports a mandate needs to seriously consider realigning their moral compass.
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[QUOTE=acrawlingchaos;1650930373]Hey Ben, sure thing.
In 1998, I was stationed in Ft. Drum NY as a line medic in a light infantry battalion during the anthrax scare. This was back when it was believed Saddam Hussein was using anthrax as a bioweapon and it was being sent through the mail. The U.S. Army retained the company BioPort to produce a vaccine; BioThrax and began administering the product to soldiers slated for deployment to Iraq almost 17 years before it obtained it's blessing from the FDA (which occurred only after formula changes and further testing in 2015). They had large amount of batches that contained squalene. It was an experimental adjuvant not approved for use and was eventually deemed the culprit.
As a battalion line medic, we began force administration of the vaccine to all personnel. I witnessed nearly every single soldier experience symptoms, from the mild to the severe. Acute symptoms I witnessed included, varying levels of swelling at the site to include allergic type reactions, mobility issues, dizziness, swelling of the throat and face and extensive fatigue. Many of the administered medics voiced concern and one of my fellow medics was removed from duty for failure to comply.
I later found out that the original anthrax vaccine was responsible for cases of multiple sclerosis, Lupus, blindness, neurological conditions and is now being linked to being the cause of Gulf War Syndrome. It was found nearly 85% of soldiers reported some level of side effects. I still harbor guilt over my involvement.
If people want to get the vaccine; I think they should (albeit with caution) and if they have reservations (for whatever reason), than I think that is fine too. However, I whole heartedly believe that anyone that supports a mandate needs to seriously consider realigning their moral compass.[/QUOTE]
So sad, thanks for sharing though.
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Got my booster yesterday and went to the gym and benched 315x2. My shoulder felt like hell and a minor headache the next day but that's it.
My first two shots were Moderna, got the Pfizer booster.
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[QUOTE=acrawlingchaos;1650930373]Hey Ben, sure thing.
In 1998, I was stationed in Ft. Drum NY as a line medic in a light infantry battalion during the anthrax scare. This was back when it was believed Saddam Hussein was using anthrax as a bioweapon and it was being sent through the mail. The U.S. Army retained the company BioPort to produce a vaccine; BioThrax and began administering the product to soldiers slated for deployment to Iraq almost 17 years before it obtained it's blessing from the FDA (which occurred only after formula changes and further testing in 2015). They had large amount of batches that contained squalene. It was an experimental adjuvant not approved for use and was eventually deemed the culprit.
As a battalion line medic, we began force administration of the vaccine to all personnel. I witnessed nearly every single soldier experience symptoms, from the mild to the severe. Acute symptoms I witnessed included, varying levels of swelling at the site to include allergic type reactions, mobility issues, dizziness, swelling of the throat and face and extensive fatigue. Many of the administered medics voiced concern and one of my fellow medics was removed from duty for failure to comply.
I later found out that the original anthrax vaccine was responsible for cases of multiple sclerosis, Lupus, blindness, neurological conditions and is now being linked to being the cause of Gulf War Syndrome. It was found nearly 85% of soldiers reported some level of side effects. I still harbor guilt over my involvement.
If people want to get the vaccine; I think they should (albeit with caution) and if they have reservations (for whatever reason), than I think that is fine too. However, I whole heartedly believe that anyone that supports a mandate needs to seriously consider realigning their moral compass.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the information, it is very helpful instead of just fear and skepticism like a majority of the posts on the site.
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[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1651037083]Thanks for the information, it is very helpful instead of just fear and skepticism like a majority of the posts on the site.[/QUOTE]No problem. I don't think fear and skepticism is a bad thing. There are a lot of people that seem to want to make this a political divide, but it goes beyond that. There are large numbers of Unionized democrats on the left that have historically been critical of their employers forcing them to do anything (including even work), and large numbers of ethic and religious minorities that have been persecuted by governments and are righteously suspicious, fearful and highly skeptical. Veterans, (regardless of affiliation) have every reason to be distrustful of the government. etc, etc.
It's not just cartoonish redneck Trumptards whose fear and skepticism of the government are (for whatever reason) never warranted.
At the end of the day, I don't trust the government about a lot of little things and quite a few big things. That's what this comes down to. You're trust for our government (for whatever reason) is just greater than mine.
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[QUOTE=acrawlingchaos;1650930373] If people want to get the vaccine; I think they should (albeit with caution) and if they have reservations (for whatever reason), than I think that is fine too. However, I whole heartedly believe that anyone that supports a mandate needs to seriously consider realigning their moral compass.[/QUOTE]
Howdy ACC....
I've had the (2) shots.....no issues and I wasn't concerned at all.
[B]No[/B]...I certainly would not endorse/support a mandate.
People are going to do what they want and the cards will fall where they may.
But....I'll throw this out.
My good friend of 45 years and business owner has a daughter (just shy of 30) who is very bright and in the medical field going to college in New York.
She's been there about 5 years or so as she continues on the medical field treadmill pursuing the ''research' path.
Her duties at this time are performing autopsies.
I just spoke with Bob a few days ago and she tells him, and I quote...."97% of Covid deaths were the unvaccinated."....hmmm.
So....if the above is accurate or even very close the thought that comes to my pea brain:
What is the exact percentage of normally (for lack of better words) healthy people that actually had truly adverse, debilitating reactions?
And....if that percentage is very small (say, 5%-7%) is it good logic deciding NOT get vaccinated using such a small sample?
Me...I don't know what to believe anymore nor do I pretend to know any more that anyone else here.
Nor do I don't keep up with all the angst or politics of it all....I'll let the rest of you take that baton. :)
I would never presume to tell anyone what they should, or shouldn't do,
I mind my own business, to each their own decisions and consequences.
But....I've been wrong in the past.
On that note....do carry on.
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[QUOTE=Wayne Evans;1651046023]Howdy ACC....
I've had the (2) shots.....no issues and I wasn't concerned at all.
[B]No[/B]...I certainly would not endorse/support a mandate.
People are going to do what they want and the cards will fall where they may.
But....I'll throw this out.
My good friend of 45 years and business owner has a daughter (just shy of 30) who is very bright and in the medical field going to college in New York.
She's been there about 5 years or so as she continues on the medical field treadmill pursuing the ''research' path.
Her duties at this time are performing autopsies.
I just spoke with Bob a few days ago and she tells him, and I quote...."97% of Covid deaths were the unvaccinated."....hmmm.
So....if the above is accurate or even very close the thought that comes to my pea brain:
What is the exact percentage of normally (for lack of better words) healthy people that actually had truly adverse, debilitating reactions?
And....if that percentage is very small (say, 5%-7%) is it good logic deciding NOT get vaccinated using such a small sample?
Me...I don't know what to believe anymore nor do I pretend to know any more that anyone else here.
Nor do I don't keep up with all the angst or politics of it all....I'll let the rest of you take that baton. :)
I would never presume to tell anyone what they should, or shouldn't do,
I mind my own business, to each their own decisions and consequences.
But....I've been wrong in the past.
On that note....do carry on.[/QUOTE]
I have completely lost faith in the US Public Health System. They have proven to be nothing more than a partisan mouthpiece rather than relying on actual science. Further, I also do not trust much of the "research" being done currently. Without calling your friend's daughter a liar regarding the number of deaths in vaccinated vs unvaccinated, I'd recommend people expand their research to other countries using the same vaccines. That research also suggests a benefit in vaccination in the prevention of death and hospitalization, but it is by no means anywhere near 97% are unvaccinated. Perhaps your friends medical researcher daughter works in a highly unvaccinated area or has seen few covid related deaths, but vaccinated deaths are FAR higher than 3%. However, these vaccinated deaths are occurring in people that are highly susceptible to death by many causes due to age and/or significant underlying medical conditions.
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[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1651048063]I have completely lost faith in the US Public Health System. They have proven to be nothing more than a partisan mouthpiece rather than relying on actual science. Further, I also do not trust much of the "research" being done currently. .[/QUOTE]
Ha....I hope your not looking for an argument from me on the above. :)
I hear you....my degree of "faith" in this context matches yours....it's not moving the meter at all.
At the youthful age of 74 I'm sure you can imagine my jaded cynicism.
Back to it...
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[QUOTE=Wayne Evans;1651048473]Ha....I hope your not looking for an argument from me on the above. :)
I hear you....my degree of "faith" in this context matches yours....it's not moving the meter at all.
At the youthful age of 74 I'm sure you can imagine my jaded cynicism.
Back to it...[/QUOTE]
Not looking for an argument at all Wayne. You always seem like a very even keeled dude that enjoys doing your thing, much respect for that. I believe there is a reason for many people to get vaccinated despite its extremely evident shortcomings in efficacy (when the CDC has to change a long-standing scientific definition of what a vaccine is to accommodate what is essentially a pre-emptive treatment it should raise a lot of eyebrows). People in higher risk categories should absolutely consider it, and it is available to everyone, that is where it should end.
My opinion is pretty much aligned with the Fifth Circuit court decision regarding the partisan weaponization of yet another Federal Agency linked below.
[url]https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/21/21-60845-CV0.pdf[/url]
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[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1651051943][B]Not looking for an argument at all Wayne[/B]. You always seem like a very even keeled dude that enjoys doing your thing, much respect for that. My opinion is pretty much aligned with the Fifth Circuit court decision regarding the partisan weaponization of yet another Federal Agency linked below. [/QUOTE]
Ha....I knew that amigo.
My poor attempt at humor in a...shall we say....very [I]polarizing[/I] context.
I'll peruse that link....looks like a long muther so I may need a libation to tackle it.
Carry on....
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[QUOTE=Wayne Evans;1651052923]Ha....I knew that amigo.
My poor attempt at humor in a...shall we say....very [I]polarizing[/I] context.
I'll peruse that link....looks like a long muther so I may need a libation to tackle it.
Carry on....[/QUOTE]
It is a rather dry 22 page court opinion on the OSHA emergency temporary standard, but there are some interesting highlights on why we have checks and balances and why allowing the partisan weaponization of Federal agencies who should be acting in good faith is a bad thing.
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[QUOTE=acrawlingchaos;1651041413]No problem. I don't think fear and skepticism is a bad thing. There are a lot of people that seem to want to make this a political divide, but it goes beyond that. There are large numbers of Unionized democrats on the left that have historically been critical of their employers forcing them to do anything (including even work), and large numbers of ethic and religious minorities that have been persecuted by governments and are righteously suspicious, fearful and highly skeptical. Veterans, (regardless of affiliation) have every reason to be distrustful of the government. etc, etc.
It's not just cartoonish redneck Trumptards whose fear and skepticism of the government are (for whatever reason) never warranted.
At the end of the day, I don't trust the government about a lot of little things and quite a few big things. That's what this comes down to. You're trust for our government (for whatever reason) is just greater than mine.[/QUOTE]
I hear ya about the different skeptical groups( blind gov trust), hell, i was one of them in the beginning.
After reading endless national and international articles, research studies, talking to friends, MD's, people who had covid badly version 1.0 and a few who said it was a breeze, i decided for me and my sickly folks it was worth it.
I know i am healthy but the guilt from "wrecking" one of them would lead me down a bad path.
Thanks for the unemotional talk, because the rest of the site doesn't play by your sensible rules.
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This is a interesting watch, it’s a long video. It’s a lot to digest, has a lot of points and ask a lot of good questions and has a time line. Some will hate it and discredit it some may find it interesting and spark some more thought and questions into it.
[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91Ib5NjSZ-o[/url]
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[img]https://i.imgur.com/jaOBgFv.jpg[/img]
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[img]https://i.imgur.com/QIPPJYd.png[/img]
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MT, thanks for always making me laugh, my friend ;)
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This is a sad story...2 in the house vaxxed, 2 who weren't died. Bad luck I guess.
[url]https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/11/upstate-ny-family-hit-by-covid-unvaccinated-father-son-die-days-apart-vaccinated-mom-son-recover.html[/url]
[quote]“My husband and son were vaccine-hesitant. ... They didn’t have any physical health problems and they were not at particular risk.”[/quote]
We can all have our opinions but for some this is their reality. This sucks and I feel for this woman and her family.
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[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651168663]This is a sad story...2 in the house vaxxed, 2 who weren't died. Bad luck I guess.
[url]https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/11/upstate-ny-family-hit-by-covid-unvaccinated-father-son-die-days-apart-vaccinated-mom-son-recover.html[/url]
We can all have our opinions but for some this is their reality. This sucks and I feel for this woman and her family.[/QUOTE]Looks like the son had this happen.
[url]https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/another-possible-covid-complication-punctured-lung[/url]
I didn't even know that was a covid problem.
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[QUOTE=deadwoodgregg;1651170613]Looks like the son had this happen.
[url]https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/another-possible-covid-complication-punctured-lung[/url]
I didn't even know that was a covid problem.[/QUOTE]
That can happen with fatal lung infections. I’m guessing his lungs were probably pretty heavily damaged from the infection, lungs were probably like hamburger. All of the infected cells typically burst (cellular lysis) so having that happen on a massive scale is going to cause physical trauma. A lot of the autopsies on military people who died from the 1918 flu noted their lungs were physically damaged like they got gassed and some had broken ribs from coughing.
Bad things can happen and it’s unfortunate. Maybe the vaccine would have saved those two, maybe it wouldn’t have.
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[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651168663]This is a sad story...2 in the house vaxxed, 2 who weren't died. Bad luck I guess.
[url]https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/11/upstate-ny-family-hit-by-covid-unvaccinated-father-son-die-days-apart-vaccinated-mom-son-recover.html[/url]
We can all have our opinions but for some this is their reality. This sucks and I feel for this woman and her family.[/QUOTE]
Yeah this part got to me...
"What happened next, she said, “was horrifying.” Six hours apart, she dropped each loved one off at the curb at the emergency room entrance. Because she was infected and in quarantine, she was barred from going in with them.
“That broke me,” she said.
It was the last time she saw them upright and conscious. “You don’t know if they are .......
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[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1651182933]Yeah this part got to me...
"What happened next, she said, “was horrifying.” Six hours apart, she dropped each loved one off at the curb at the emergency room entrance. Because she was infected and in quarantine, she was barred from going in with them.
“That broke me,” she said.
It was the last time she saw them upright and conscious. “You don’t know if they are .......[/QUOTE]
Very sad indeed. I hate reading this stuff.
The vaccine is an effect tool in the covid fight, it's not the complete tool box but it is something of value. Unfortunately many naysayers are finding this out the hard way. Sad
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[QUOTE=mtpockets;1651184013]Very sad indeed. I hate reading this stuff.
The vaccine is an effect tool in the covid fight, it's not the complete tool box but it is something of value. Unfortunately many naysayers are finding this out the hard way. Sad[/QUOTE]
Definitely no panacea. Uptake would be better if they were more honest. Lol at the FDA requesting 55 years to release the data used to make their decisions. The politicization and mandates hurt uptake, but not as much as the visible lack of efficacy and maniacal pushing of the vaccine without consideration for people’s personal health decisions.
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[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651168663]This is a sad story...2 in the house vaxxed, 2 who weren't died. Bad luck I guess.
[url]https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/11/upstate-ny-family-hit-by-covid-unvaccinated-father-son-die-days-apart-vaccinated-mom-son-recover.html[/url]
We can all have our opinions but for some this is their reality. This sucks and I feel for this woman and her family.[/QUOTE]
It's unfortunate that the 2 unvaxxed family members died from the virus but that was their choice to make and so be it. What is really sad in my opinion is that the 2 vaccinated family members weren't allowed to see them in the hospital. If the "vaccine" was actually a vaccine and worked like a typical vaccine by providing immunity maybe they would allow family in to see them off...
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[QUOTE=Fishman15;1651189233]It's unfortunate that the 2 unvaxxed family members died from the virus but that was their choice to make and so be it. What is really sad in my opinion is that the 2 vaccinated family members weren't allowed to see them in the hospital. If the "vaccine" was actually a vaccine and worked like a typical vaccine by providing immunity maybe they would allow family in to see them off...[/QUOTE]Id like to see photos of these 2 people.
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[img]https://i.imgur.com/hitLzNp.jpg?1[/img]
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[QUOTE=Wayne Evans;1651046023]Howdy ACC....
I've had the (2) shots.....no issues and I wasn't concerned at all.
[B]No[/B]...I certainly would not endorse/support a mandate.
People are going to do what they want and the cards will fall where they may.
But....I'll throw this out.
My good friend of 45 years and business owner has a daughter (just shy of 30) who is very bright and in the medical field going to college in New York.
She's been there about 5 years or so as she continues on the medical field treadmill pursuing the ''research' path.
Her duties at this time are performing autopsies.
I just spoke with Bob a few days ago and she tells him, and I quote...."97% of Covid deaths were the unvaccinated."....hmmm.
So....if the above is accurate or even very close the thought that comes to my pea brain:
What is the exact percentage of normally (for lack of better words) healthy people that actually had truly adverse, debilitating reactions?
And....if that percentage is very small (say, 5%-7%) is it good logic deciding NOT get vaccinated using such a small sample?
Me...I don't know what to believe anymore nor do I pretend to know any more that anyone else here.
Nor do I don't keep up with all the angst or politics of it all....I'll let the rest of you take that baton. :)
I would never presume to tell anyone what they should, or shouldn't do,
I mind my own business, to each their own decisions and consequences.
But....I've been wrong in the past.
On that note....do carry on.[/QUOTE]Hey Wayne. I'm with you. I'm not sure what to believe because far too many people have been full of sh*t and everyone has a different authority to appeal to. Should I not listen to my woman who actually works on these vaccines? Why should I listen to your friends daughter and not my partner? Which is why you I are on the same side of the coin in aspects of minding our business keeping on with keeping on.
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651168663]This is a sad story...2 in the house vaxxed, 2 who weren't died. Bad luck I guess.
[url]https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/11/upstate-ny-family-hit-by-covid-unvaccinated-father-son-die-days-apart-vaccinated-mom-son-recover.html[/url]
We can all have our opinions but for some this is their reality. This sucks and I feel for this woman and her family.[/QUOTE]I'll be honest, I had a bit of a visceral reaction to the article. That piece 100% came across as a piece of propaganda and a wag of the finger. Here is a not so sad story of a woman who died from blood clots from the J&J vaccine.
[url]https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/washington/articles/2021-10-05/washington-woman-dies-from-rare-j-j-vaccine-complication[/url]
And even with all these complications.... the scary part is... they're done. These are the vaccines we get. They are no longer trying to improve them... but no worries just take it.
[QUOTE=Tommy W.;1651189663]Id like to see photos of these 2 people.[/QUOTE]Notice how they let you know about all the pre-existing conditions of the nameless thot that died from the J&J vaccine. What are the chances we can find the actual names of people dropping from heart attacks from Pfizer in the news cycle? Ya... don't wanna make THOSE stories too sad.
My guess is the 2 that passed from covid were blood type maple syrup. I hate the media so much. Legit frustrated.
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I can't even imagine how ****ed up a kids thinking is gonna be (regarding government) growing up in a society that dictates the general public wear a mask or takes a vaccine to keep their job....
it's almost scary to think about where we're heading as a nation...
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[QUOTE=Fishman15;1651189233]It's unfortunate that the 2 unvaxxed family members died from the virus but that was their choice to make and so be it. What is really sad in my opinion is that the 2 vaccinated family members weren't allowed to see them in the hospital. If the "vaccine" was actually a vaccine and worked like a typical vaccine by providing immunity maybe they would allow family in to see them off...[/QUOTE]
You're not wrong Fishy.
[QUOTE=acrawlingchaos;1651219673]
I'll be honest, I had a bit of a visceral reaction to the article. That piece 100% came across as a piece of propaganda and a wag of the finger. Here is a not so sad story of a woman who died from blood clots from the J&J vaccine.
[url]https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/washington/articles/2021-10-05/washington-woman-dies-from-rare-j-j-vaccine-complication[/url]
And even with all these complications.... the scary part is... they're done. These are the vaccines we get. They are no longer trying to improve them... but no worries just take it.
[/QUOTE]
I can see that, Jeff. Evidence to support anyone's views can be found or written in this case. It was surely slanted but I just was sad to read THIS story (which was passed on to me by someone as I generally avoid this topic).
However, 4 in the house caught C19, 2 vaxxed, 2 not and they died. Sure looks like a good case of the vaccine doing its job but what do I know - I'm not here playing Dr because I took HS chemistry :D
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[QUOTE=Tommy W.;1651189663]Id like to see photos of these 2 people.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesunion.com/news/amp/COVID-does-the-unthinkable-Father-son-die-16632441.php[/url]
Dad looked like he was in ok shape and son looked like a soy boy, neck beard hybrid.
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[img]https://i.imgur.com/mv26oVZ.jpg?1[/img]
