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[QUOTE=LWW;1639848833]I grew up in America, did you? You live in CA, CA along with areas around me are turning into those places people flee from, there were never hacked up bodies around my county growing up, but they are now, these are from gangs.
I don't hate America, but I hate the ones looking to change and make it worse.[/QUOTE]
So what are you doing as an individual to make a difference? Other than complaining on here a couple of times a day how are you expressing your rights? Perhaps run for office in local elections on libertarian ideals ? Advocate for libertarian principles in front of your county commissioners, city council? Did you even vote?
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639849133]So what are you doing as an individual to make a difference? Other than complaining on here a couple of times a day how are you expressing your rights? Perhaps run for office in local elections on libertarian ideals ? Advocate for libertarian principles in front of your county commissioners, city council? Did you even vote?[/QUOTE]
I don't even get why you wanna be a libertarian. As far as I can tell, you're like the most informed person so you well know how this system we have here works better than anywhere else. I mean everything works..your house burns down, the fire department comes, cops come when you call them, ambulance arrives if you call 911.. I could write til the cows come how how everything works but you want to go do it on your own? Why?
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639849133]So what are you doing as an individual to make a difference? Other than complaining on here a couple of times a day how are you expressing your rights? Perhaps run for office in local elections on libertarian ideals ? Advocate for libertarian principles in front of your county commissioners, city council? Did you even vote?[/QUOTE]
I already told Chaz, yelling and cursing on here helps, makes me feel better to call someone a commie pile of thit!!!
Don't worry I'm looking into most of the above, once I finish my masters degree, and of course I vote, I stood in line, in the rain to try and stop Biden.................
Since I do vote I can tell Bando to stop crying because he voted for all his complaints....................
Also, my post to Bando (the one Cass replied too) was a total Parady anyway, just fuking off, didn't think it would get that serious, this tells me Americans are truly in a hurting state........................
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639850003]I don't even get why you wanna be a libertarian. As far as I can tell, you're like the most informed person so you well know how this system we have here works better than anywhere else. I mean everything works..your house burns down, the fire department comes, cops come when you call them, ambulance arrives if you call 911.. I could write til the cows come how how everything works but you want to go do it on your own? Why?[/QUOTE]
So yeah I’m a libertarian in that I support the political ideal that values limited government but I’m not an anarchist. I don’t think anyone really knows exactly how much government is necessary. Zero is certainly not the answer because zero creates a power vacuum that will be filled sooner rather than later. But I think it is clear that governments tend to creep towards protecting themselves. Their very existence makes them defend their existence and grab for more authority to do that.
Limiting the federal government and making government as local as possible would be a good start.
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639850003] how this system we have here works better than anywhere else. I mean everything works..your house burns down, the fire department comes, cops come when you call them, ambulance arrives if you call 911.. I could write til the cows come how how everything works but you want to go do it on your own? Why?[/QUOTE]
Americas system still works because not everyone is commie/socialist yet, YET is the key word, your WHY sounds like taking it for granted..............
It mostly works because of how taxes get distributed, right now certain people in power want to change pay the police, these same people complain about police being militarized, however those SAME people will send the military to arrest YOU once they get rid of the police for owning a weapon they don't want even though YOU have a 2nd amendment and THEY have thier own security with THOSE weapons PLUS the military......look at D.C. post Jan 6th, says it all..............
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639852893]Americas system still works because not everyone is commie/socialist yet, YET is the key word, your WHY sounds like taking it for granted..............
It mostly works because of how taxes get distributed, right now certain people in power want to change pay the police, these same people complain about police being militarized, however those SAME people will send the military to arrest YOU once they get rid of the police for owning a weapon they don't want even though YOU have a 2nd amendment and THEY have thier own security with THOSE weapons PLUS the military......look at D.C. post Jan 6th, says it all..............[/QUOTE]
I will say again that I don’t think you know what socialism is if you think Democrats are socialist.
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BLM and antifa are socialists and the Dems are playing with fire running cover for them.
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639852893]Americas system still works because not everyone is commie/socialist yet, YET is the key word, your WHY sounds like taking it for granted..............
It mostly works because of how taxes get distributed, right now certain people in power want to change pay the police, these same people complain about police being militarized, however those SAME people will send the military to arrest YOU once they get rid of the police for owning a weapon they don't want even though YOU have a 2nd amendment and THEY have thier own security with THOSE weapons PLUS the military......look at D.C. post Jan 6th, says it all..............[/QUOTE]
There are no commies here dumdum. There are two main parties and they switch all the time..not one party stays in power indefinitely. Would you like only your party stay in power forever? Is that democracy to you?
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639854813]There are no commies here dumdum. There are two main parties and they switch all the time..not one party stays in power indefinitely. Would you like only your party stay in power forever? Is that democracy to you?[/QUOTE]
They're both asshoe. The swamp needs an enema.
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[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1639855543]They're both asshoe. The swamp needs an enema.[/QUOTE]
Nope they're not. North Korea is an asshoe. America is great.
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639855733]Nope they're not. North Korea is an asshoe. America is great.[/QUOTE]
Didn't say anything about the country.
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[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1639856003]Didn't say anything about the country.[/QUOTE]
But those are the parties we have that run things, no? What is better? Just one party? No political party at all? I actually don't know anything about politics. I only know that Finland had social democratic government which was great. Now I live here and it's pretty much the same thing. Much better than any other places have ever had in history or currently have in other places.
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639854133]I will say again that I don’t think you know what socialism is if you think Democrats are socialist.[/QUOTE]
I never ever said Democrats were socialists where did I even say that in the quote?
I said once everyone or most everyone in this country becomes socialists/commies, this does not mean Democrat....
I grew up in a time when things were much better, Bill Clinton a Democrat was president, trump was his buddy who also was democratic.
I know the difference between now than growing up, It was better than socialism, I think Cass was in Finland at the time?
Almost half of America seem socialist? I may be wrong, but it seems that way, and we are seeing the hits, 7seconds, look at your cost of living hiking.
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639858623]I never ever said Democrats were socialists where did I even say that in the quote?
I said once everyone or most everyone in this country becomes socialists/commies, this does not mean Democrat....
I grew up in a time when things were much better, Bill Clinton a Democrat was president, trump was his buddy who also was democratic.
I know the difference between now than growing up, It was better than socialism, I think Cass was in Finland at the time?
Almost half of America seem socialist? I may be wrong, but it seems that way, and we are seeing the hits, 7seconds, look at your cost of living hiking.[/QUOTE]
Ok, if you believe almost half of America seems socialist then again I don’t think you know what socialism is. Perhaps Cass explaining to you the difference between a socialist and a social democrat would be a start. And then we could go into democratic socialism and then your favorite, communism.
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639859063]Ok, if you believe almost half of America seems socialist then again I don’t think you know what socialism is. Perhaps Cass explaining to you the difference between a socialist and a social democrat would be a start. And then we could go into democratic socialism and then your favorite, communism.[/QUOTE]
Lol I don't know anything about politics but I do think that Finnish people think America has no social services but that's not even true. If we're poor, we get government help the same way Finns do. There's not that much difference. There's a balance. Not too much socialism but still enough to help people.
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639859303]Lol I don't know anything about politics but I do think that Finnish people think America has no social services but that's not even true. If we're poor, we get government help the same way Finns do. There's not that much difference. There's a balance. Not too much socialism but still enough to help people.[/QUOTE]
Ok. You are not helping. And I thought you claimed to be a communist anyway.
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639860093]Ok. You are not helping. And I thought you claimed to be a communist anyway.[/QUOTE]
I am and Trump was the communist president extraordinaire. He gave all of us the same unemployment and stimmy checks. :p
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639856603]But those are the parties we have that run things, no? What is better? Just one party? No political party at all? I actually don't know anything about politics. I only know that Finland had social democratic government which was great. Now I live here and it's pretty much the same thing. Much better than any other places have ever had in history or currently have in other places.[/QUOTE]
They are not the country.
Put a hard cap on election spending. Eliminate third party or "non-partisan" spending. It's telling that hundreds of millions are spent on positions that nominally pay a fraction of that. It's also telling that top members of both parties become insanely rich while in office.
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[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1639860433]They are not the country.
Put a hard cap on election spending. Eliminate third party or "non-partisan" spending. It's telling that hundreds of millions are spent on positions that nominally pay a fraction of that. It's also telling that top members of both parties become insanely rich while in office.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I dunno know what I'm talking aboot tbh but that has never prevented me from conversating hehe. I just wanted to pose an opposing view for a change. :)
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[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1639860433]They are not the country.
Put a hard cap on election spending. Eliminate third party or "non-partisan" spending. It's telling that hundreds of millions are spent on positions that nominally pay a fraction of that. It's also telling that top members of both parties become insanely rich while in office.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by eliminate third party spending?
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639860323]I am and Trump was the communist president extraordinaire. He gave all of us the same unemployment and stimmy checks. :p[/QUOTE]
I don’t think he is. As I understand it communism is anything that gives conservatives a frowny face.
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639860323]I am and Trump was the communist president extraordinaire. He gave all of us the same unemployment and stimmy checks. :p[/QUOTE]
So then you liked Trump!
But stimmy checks are socialist behavior, the governors complained about Trump and Trump put the problem in thier hands, that’s when we learned how Many governors were true communists as they chose not to allow benefits to certain business owners, Larry Hogan was one he’s a republican there 7seconds.
Back in the 90s when things were good I still worked a hard physical job, it’s wasnt a gravy life, when Obama came in my boss took advantage of a program where our hours got cut but we still got our 40 hour work week, it sucks, I mean it really sucks to live like that, so I used that time I was off and enrolled in college, figured I’d use that time wisely because eventually everyone got laid off when the program ended and things didn’t get better for the company.
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639863473]
But stimmy checks are socialist behavior,[/quote]
No, taxation and spending isn't socialism. It's taxation and welfare within a capitalist system. Socialism is when the people own and control the means of production. State Socialism is when the state owns and controls the means of production, on behalf of the people.
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639864353]No, taxation and spending isn't socialism. It's taxation and welfare within a capitalist system. Socialism is when the people own and control the means of production. State Socialism is when the state owns and controls the means of production, on behalf of the people.[/QUOTE]
The stimulas may be spending, but alot of it is a form of welfare.
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639860093]Ok. You are not helping. And I thought you claimed to be a communist anyway.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639864353]No, taxation and spending isn't socialism. It's taxation and welfare within a capitalist system. Socialism is when the people own and control the means of production. State Socialism is when the state owns and controls the means of production, on behalf of the people.[/QUOTE]
ROFLAO.
You held out for a really long time before explaining. I was tempted to stick this in so many times
[Img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/********/000/010/692/19789999.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639864353]No, taxation and spending isn't socialism. It's taxation and welfare within a capitalist system. Socialism is when the people own and control the means of production. State Socialism is when the state owns and controls the means of production, on behalf of the people.[/QUOTE]
No, taxation and redistribution is socialism, Obama wanted that and so does Biden (pay your fair share, if you earn over 400k), they want to redistribute wealth to control production on the behalf and welfare of the people, that is the ultimate goal.
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639868303]No, taxation and redistribution is socialism, Obama wanted that and so does Biden (pay your fair share, if you earn over 400k), they want to redistribute wealth to control production on the behalf and welfare of the people, that is the ultimate goal.[/QUOTE]
You miss the point of socialism. The point isn’t to take the capitalist’s wealth and spread it out, the point is to abolish private ownership of the means of production and convert it into public ownership. Socialism is not when you merely tax the rich to redistribute the wealth.
The United States is nominally capitalist, but it's also not purely capitalist, and it's not because of taxes and safety nets; it's because of all of the government interference, cronyism, and rent seeking enabled by the government. The nice way of saying it is we have a "mixed economy" and a "social safety net."
Now, I'm not necessarily defending any of these social safety measures. They still depend on non-voluntary contributions to make them happen. But, no they are not socialism.
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639869933]You miss the point of socialism. The point isn’t to take the capitalist’s wealth and spread it out, the point is to abolish private ownership of the means of production and convert it into public ownership. Socialism is not when you merely tax the rich to redistribute the wealth.
The United States is nominally capitalist, but it's also not purely capitalist, and it's not because of taxes and safety nets; it's because of all of the government interference, cronyism, and rent seeking enabled by the government. The nice way of saying it is we have a "mixed economy" and a "social safety net."
Now, I'm not necessarily defending any of these social safety measures. They still depend on non-voluntary contributions to make them happen. But, no they are not socialism.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you like safety measures??
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[QUOTE=Cass40;1639873893]Why don't you like safety measures??[/QUOTE]
I am not completely opposed to safety nets. The purist libertarian position is that charity would take care of these people. I think that's probably a lie we tell ourselves. Charity currently isn't able to take care of these individuals, so I am not sure there is a reason to expect that charity would be able to take care of them if we eliminated welfare.
What i am opposed to is fraud in welfare and i'm also opposed to welfare programs that don't do what they're aimed to do. It would be nice to see a push toward evidence based legislation where legislation and programs are evaluated emperically to determine if they've met their stated goals, and most importantly those that don't meet their stated goals should be modified or eliminated.
Really though, i don't strongly object to the notion of government welfare provided they are actually helping people.
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[QUOTE=7Seconds;1639869933]You miss the point of socialism. The point isn’t to take the capitalist’s wealth and spread it out, the point is to abolish private ownership of the means of production and convert it into public ownership. Socialism is not when you merely tax the rich to redistribute the wealth.
The United States is nominally capitalist, but it's also not purely capitalist, and it's not because of taxes and safety nets; it's because of all of the government interference, cronyism, and rent seeking enabled by the government. The nice way of saying it is we have a "mixed economy" and a "social safety net."
Now, I'm not necessarily defending any of these social safety measures. They still depend on non-voluntary contributions to make them happen. But, no they are not socialism.[/QUOTE]
Everything you just described is what Obama tries to do, abolish private business. I don’t believe Biden was for this until he became VP, Obama send him over the edge..............
You trying to tell me I don’t understand socialism is like suprawarmup continuing to tell me I’m still squatting my Dead’s.
