Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1648117683]The refs have a union, I believe.[/QUOTE]

They do. And they agreed to the vaccine requirement.


[url]https://www.nba.com/news/nba-announces-required-vaccinations-for-referees[/url]

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648117853]They do. And they agreed to the vaccine requirement.


[url]https://www.nba.com/news/nba-announces-required-vaccinations-for-referees[/url][/QUOTE]

They don't have the clout the players do.

[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1648118233]They don't have the clout the players do.[/QUOTE]


I agree if the NBAPA can use vaccination as a leverage point to negotiate something away from the owners, they will. And ownership certainly doesn’t want that, especially when 95% of the league is already vaccinated.

It would have been interesting if the majority of the referees are in fact against the vaccine, and they played hard ball with the league. Starting the season with replacement refs would not have been a good look for the NBA.

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648118963]I agree if the NBAPA can use vaccination as a leverage point to negotiate something away from the owners, they will. And ownership certainly doesn’t want that, especially when 95% of the league is already vaccinated.

It would have been interesting if the majority of the referees are in fact against the vaccine, and they played hard ball with the league. Starting the season with replacement refs would not have been a good look for the NBA.[/QUOTE]

Can't imagine a union in favor of mandates even if it believes in the vaccine. Already, the nurse's and health care professionals unions in my area have issued statements against mandated vaccination ahead of any mandate being issued.

[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1648120213]Can't imagine a union in favor of mandates even if it believes in the vaccine. Already, the nurse's and health care professionals unions in my area have issued statements against mandated vaccination ahead of any mandate being issued.[/QUOTE]

IDK, I have seen local reports of several area unions being pro covid vaccine mandates, i believe the US teachers union backed them. Unions, especially strong ones generally never give up any changes in employment without agitation. Everything is a bargaining chip in their eyes.

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1648100203]Thought so, but it was also valid and it was such a crazy day at work that I guess I used the post as an excuse to not work for 15 minutes. I'm covering a few studies for people who are out until next week here and in the EU. Problem is they were both already covering for their two backups on these studies, because those two are away on vacation. Perfect storm lol.
I'm pretty good, but I don't know their studies well so stuff that would have taken them 10 minutes took me an hour. No COVID studies, but one of the two actually is out with COVID despite being fully vaccinated. That's how it goes I guess.[/QUOTE]
About half of our current covid absences are in vaccinated people. Not really sure what our corporate vaccination rate is probably 60-70% as a guess. We don't have many though, we were hit pretty hard in recorded cases last year. And we had some major caseloads before it was officially "here". Feb of 2020 there were a LOT of death notices of parents of active employees and retirees. Many of those deaths were attributed to pneumonia.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1648123633]About half of our current covid absences are in vaccinated people. Not really sure what our corporate vaccination rate is probably 60-70% as a guess. We don't have many though, we were hit pretty hard in recorded cases last year. And we had some major caseloads before it was officially "here". Feb of 2020 there were a LOT of death notices of parents of active employees and retirees. Many of those deaths were attributed to pneumonia.[/QUOTE]

So from observing Israel it looks like Delta has avoided our "old"(5-8 months) vaccine.
Is it your hypothesis that the same is happening at your work place?

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1648124493]So from observing Israel it looks like Delta has avoided our "old"(5-8 months) vaccine.
Is it your hypothesis that the same is happening at your work place?[/QUOTE]

The vaccine does not seem to be performing very well for preventing infection. We have not had any deaths, despite having some people that I would consider high risk infected before vaccines were out. I think if we had a new vaccine specific to the Delta variant it would increase the efficacy of disease prevention for awhile, but the another mutation would occur to evade that. Mutations are happening all the time in infected people, most are inconsequential. However, when you have a mutation that exploits a niche allowing it to propagate, that is going to be your new circulating strain. For this type of virus, if the vaccine is reducing disease significance, that's about as good as its going to get IMO, the virus will burn itself out eventually given how communicable it is. Looks like its been on the decline. This fall in my area when environmental conditions are more advantageous to the virus will be telling. I think we are on the tail end of this in most urban areas that had high infection rates and vaccine uptake. Rural areas lacking both will be a problem for a few more years.

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648121273]IDK, I have seen local reports of several area unions being pro covid vaccine mandates, i believe the US teachers union backed them. Unions, especially strong ones generally never give up any changes in employment without agitation. Everything is a bargaining chip in their eyes.[/QUOTE]

That's different. The teachers want control over the students who are most definitely not union members.

[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1648133313]That's different. The teachers want control over the students who are most definitely not union members.[/QUOTE]

I don’t remember if the discussion involved students or if it was in support of just requiring teachers but do you believe it is a priority of a teachers’ union to control the kids? Seems more logical that they might actually believe that teachers being vaccinated would make for a safer work environment for their members.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1648131303]The vaccine does not seem to be performing very well for preventing infection. We have not had any deaths, despite having some people that I would consider high risk infected before vaccines were out. I think if we had a new vaccine specific to the Delta variant it would increase the efficacy of disease prevention for awhile, but the another mutation would occur to evade that. Mutations are happening all the time in infected people, most are inconsequential. However, when you have a mutation that exploits a niche allowing it to propagate, that is going to be your new circulating strain. For this type of virus, if the vaccine is reducing disease significance, that's about as good as its going to get IMO, the virus will burn itself out eventually given how communicable it is. Looks like its been on the decline. This fall in my area when environmental conditions are more advantageous to the virus will be telling. I think we are on the tail end of this in most urban areas that had high infection rates and vaccine uptake. Rural areas lacking both will be a problem for a few more years.[/QUOTE]

uh oh, we are doing really well here (4% positivity 800-1,000 cases daily) but i think based on what you just described, we could be in for the 4th wave soon.

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648134863]I don’t remember if the discussion involved students or if it was in support of just requiring teachers but do you believe it is a priority of a teachers’ union to control the kids? Seems more logical that they might actually believe that teachers being vaccinated would make for a safer work environment for their members.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's the teachers unions that are pushing vaccination and mask mandates for students. Teachers interact with students more than they do with each other.

[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1648138463]Yes, it's the teachers unions that are pushing vaccination and mask mandates for students. Teachers interact with students more than they do with each other.[/QUOTE]

Schools already require proof of vaccine for measles, mumps, rubella, meningitis and tetanus, etc. Are you against those requirements as well or just Covid?

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648138883]Schools already require proof of vaccine for measles, mumps, rubella, meningitis and tetanus, etc. Are you against those requirements as well or just Covid?[/QUOTE]

Don't those vaccines actually work though?

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648138883]Schools already require proof of vaccine for measles, mumps, rubella, meningitis and tetanus, etc. Are you against those requirements as well or just Covid?[/QUOTE]

I'm in Canada. No vaccinations are required to attend school.

[QUOTE=_zman;1648140413]Don't those vaccines actually work though?[/QUOTE]

Since the covid vaccine has received FDA approval why wouldn’t a public school be allowed to require it as it does the others?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/TNYIkhN.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648141643]Since the covid vaccine has received FDA approval why wouldn’t a public school be allowed to require it as it does the others?[/QUOTE]

If we're talking about a group that deals with policy, that may be relevant. A union deals with collective bargaining for its members and only its members.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1648141923][img]https://i.imgur.com/TNYIkhN.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

IMO he nails so many things, but, if I had a point of criticism the verbiage surrounding this would all be over right now if everyone had just gotten vaxxed, is a bit too far for me. I am not sure it's fair to assume that. And to assume that is just as dumb as when anti-vax say the vaccines don't work. Both sides can be a bit too passionately one sided.

[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1648142383]If we're talking about a group that deals with policy, that may be relevant. A union deals with collective bargaining for its members and only its members.[/QUOTE]

Unions have two main functions: collective bargaining and political advocacy. They try to influence the political process to improve the working conditions of their members. They’re not overstepping their bounds. This is and always has been one of the main things unions do. Just like there are all sorts of groups lobbying for fewer restrictions and no mask mandates.

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648144533]Unions have two main functions: collective bargaining and political advocacy. They try to influence the political process to improve the working conditions of their members. They’re not overstepping their bounds. This is and always has been one of the main things unions do. Just like there are all sorts of groups lobbying for fewer restrictions and no mask mandates.[/QUOTE]

It says a lot that their advocacy for their members involves the imposition on another group.

[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1648145633]It says a lot that their advocacy for their members involves the imposition on another group.[/QUOTE]

Parents have other choices for their kids education. In fact this seems to be pretty solid reason to advocate for school choice. Personally I have a bigger problem with the idea of public education than I do with schools requiring vaccines.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1648143093]IMO he nails so many things, but, if I had a point of criticism the verbiage surrounding this would all be over right now if everyone had just gotten vaxxed, is a bit too far for me. I am not sure it's fair to assume that. And to assume that is just as dumb as when anti-vax say the vaccines don't work. Both sides can be a bit too passionately one sided.[/QUOTE]

I can't add anything. That is exactly what I thought.

[url]https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/mercks-covid-19-pill-cuts-risk-death-hospitalization-by-50-study-2021-10-01/[/url]

[quote]Oct 1 (Reuters) - An experimental antiviral pill developed by Merck & Co (MRK.N) could halve the chances of dying or being hospitalized for those most at risk of contracting severe COVID-19, according to data that experts hailed as a potential breakthrough in how the virus is treated.

If it gets authorization, molnupiravir, which is designed to introduce errors into the genetic code of the virus, would be the first oral antiviral medication for COVID-19.

Merck and partner Ridgeback Biotherapeutics said they plan to seek U.S. emergency use authorization for the pill as soon as possible and to make regulatory applications worldwide.

...[/quote]

If molnupiravir is as promising as the studies sound, it may be a superior treatment to getting rid of COVID once you actually have it.

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1648141923][img]https://i.imgur.com/TNYIkhN.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

So instead of being mad at the government which is the reason why he has to miss going out and seeing faces, he blames the people who don't want to be vaccinated.

He's certainly a special one.

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648141643]Since the covid vaccine has received FDA approval why wouldn’t a public school be allowed to require it as it does the others?[/QUOTE]

Just because food is FDA approved to eat, doesn't mean it's healthy.

[QUOTE=7Seconds;1648141643]Since the covid vaccine has received FDA approval why wouldn’t a public school be allowed to require it as it does the others?[/QUOTE]

Except we are not receiving the "approved" vaccine. Everyone is being given the EUA vaccine. Why is that?

[QUOTE=_zman;1648167393]Just because food is FDA approved to eat, doesn't mean it's healthy.[/QUOTE]

Are you against vaccine requirements in schools all together or just Covid? This was already litigated when immunization records became a thing forever ago, so if schools can require MMR why can’t they require Covid? What should be the standard?


[QUOTE=Fishman15;1648168963]Except we are not receiving the "approved" vaccine. Everyone is being given the EUA vaccine. Why is that?[/QUOTE]

I don’t really know what you mean.

Stirring the pot

400,000 covid deaths in 11 months under Trump who had about 1 month use of the vaccines.

300,000 covid deaths in 8 months under Biden who had 8 months use of the vaccines.

I thought that boy was gonna fix this pandemic.

[QUOTE=_zman;1648167393]Just because food is FDA approved to eat, doesn't mean it's healthy.[/QUOTE]


Wait you mean pop, chips, and foods loaded with preservatives aren’t healthy for us, despite being FDA approved? Isn’t obesity the main comorbidity for those that have putatively died from Covid, while young, non-obese people easily beat Covid?

Wasn’t the drugs DES, Chantix, and Revulin, also FDA approved? That is until 15 - 40 years later it was found those drugs were causing cancer in the users or their offspring.

Isn’t true that many of those at the FDA are/were executives or board members for the food or drug companies that are supposed to regulate?

Yikes