Philly officials say even fully vaccinated people should again wear masks inside public spaces
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Philly officials say even fully vaccinated people should again wear masks inside public spaces
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1643394873]Philly officials say even fully vaccinated people should again wear masks inside public spaces[/QUOTE]
They probably think that fully vaccinated people will be more likely to listen and mask up, and that increasing the # of people wearing masks will either permit or pressure unvaccinated people to wear one too.
Would you bet on that working???
[QUOTE=LWW;1643393223]PLEASe add eomrat to vax list, since he verified in a recent post to mgftp.
I assume mgftp is vaxxed too?[/QUOTE]
I held out longer than I'd like to admit which may surprise some, but yes
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1643394873]Philly officials say even fully vaccinated people should again wear masks inside public spaces[/QUOTE]
Life is going backwards. I hate all the news like this, so depressing. I really thought we were coming out of this.
I'd love JustTheDad's thought on where we;d be at if we just force vaccinated everyone who didn't have a medical reason not to be.
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1643395833]They probably think that fully vaccinated people will be more likely to listen and mask up, and that increasing the # of people wearing masks will either permit or pressure unvaccinated people to wear one too.
Would you bet on that working???[/QUOTE]
Not sure if that would work or not, one thing for sure if it turns into policy, it's a hell of a lot easier to police if everyone has to mask up without exception.
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1643385023]This is true.
Have you ever considered that counties that voted for Trump are at 35% vaccination rates while those that voted for Biden are already at 47% and rising. 56% of the GOP is over the age of 50. The IFR at 50 is about 1%, increasing to over 2% by age 60, well over 3% at 70...
I agree you have the right to choose, but conservatives refusing a vaccine as an exercise of their liberty is going to bite the GOP in the a$$. You're looking at .5% of that party dying over the next few years, and while it may not be the young healthy ones who die, they likely will be the ones bringing it home to dad and grandma... .
I don't want to have a democratic house, senate, and president for the next 20 years, so while I agree with you philosophically, I'll admit I'm still annoyed that your choice seems to be an exercise of political freedom rather than of mental capacity, and it's going to make my taxes go up.[/QUOTE]
What makes you think I'm Republican? Because I voted for Trump twice? I consider myself anarcho / libertarian. But even the libertarian party should not be taken seriously. It has been infiltrated by leftists.
Democratic Party = communist
GOP = spineless RINOs, lite commies
LP = annoying turd
All parties are bad for America. Statism is brain disease.
The GOP needs the conservative base more than the conservatives need the GOP.
How is my choice to remain unjabbed a sign of my mental capacity? If you are jabbed then you have nothing to worry about, right? right. So why are you worried about the unjab?
Taxes will go up regardless. Until the system implodes.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1643395983]I held out longer than I'd like to admit which may surprise some, but yes
Life is going backwards. I hate all the news like this, so depressing. I really thought we were coming out of this.
I'd love JustTheDad's thought on where we;d be at if we just force vaccinated everyone who didn't have a medical reason not to be.[/QUOTE]
All stats show these cases are from unvaxxed, non should be a shocker, this is gubmit creating havoc.
Btw is your name related to some file server?
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1643396153]Not sure if that would work or not, one thing for sure if it turns into policy, it's a hell of a lot easier to police if everyone has to mask up without exception.[/QUOTE]
Not, many people are refusing too this go especially if they are vaxed, you can only push real smart Americans so far.....
Misses told me if they do this here we ain’t masking up.
[QUOTE=LWW;1643396593]All stats show these cases are from unvaxxed, non should be a shocker, this is gubmit creating havoc.
Btw is your name related to some file server?[/QUOTE]
97% of hospitalizations are the unvaxxed is the last report I read. Unvaxxed are the biggest reason we are going back to masks and things will start shutting down again IMO. So while people say "it's my choice", sure it is, but your choice is effecting the lives of others the way I see it.
This is the name the website assigned me at random
All over Sports talk today is the nfl decision on covid and pay, check it out.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1643395983]
I'd love JustTheDad's thought on where we;d be at if we just force vaccinated everyone who didn't have a medical reason not to be.[/QUOTE]
North Korea maybe?
(Sorry :( )
Editing to add that yes, we'd have almost no COVID cases, lots more cold/flu and diarrhea cases, and we'd remove any travel and work restrictions. But you know, part of what makes us great is that we won't.
[QUOTE=NorwichGrad;1643396243]What makes you think I'm Republican? Because I voted for Trump twice? [/QUOTE]
Didn't say you were a republican. Just said your choice hurts the GOP more than the Democrats and will lead to a less balanced system.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1643396923]97% of hospitalizations are the unvaxxed is the last report I read. Unvaxxed are the biggest reason we are going back to masks and things will start shutting down again IMO. So while people say "it's my choice", sure it is, but your choice is effecting the lives of others the way I see it.
This is the name the website assigned me at random[/QUOTE]
Gubmint is creating the division, people who are unvaxxed but have had Covid are also not as high risk as they have anti bodies or they aren’t going to get as bad a case.
You shouldn’t blame others, gubmit is going take away your rights one way or another best thing to do is prepare. GOd does not send souls to hell for protecting freedom in times of war.
[QUOTE=LWW;1643400053]Gubmint is creating the division, people who are unvaxxed but have had Covid are also not as high risk as they have anti bodies or they aren’t going to get as bad a case.
You shouldn’t blame others, gubmit is going take away your rights one way or another best thing to do is prepare. [B]GOd does not send souls to hell for protecting freedom in times of war.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wait, what?
[QUOTE=mgftp;1643396923]97% of hospitalizations are the unvaxxed is the last report I read. Unvaxxed are the biggest reason we are going back to masks and things will start shutting down again IMO. So while people say "it's my choice", sure it is, but your choice is effecting the lives of others the way I see it.
This is the name the website assigned me at random[/QUOTE]
Even vaccinated people are getting the Delta variant. What's the report you read?
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1643399783]North Korea maybe?
(Sorry :( )
Editing to add that yes, we'd have almost no COVID cases, lots more cold/flu and diarrhea cases, and we'd remove any travel and work restrictions. [b]But you know, part of what makes us great is that we won't. [/b]
Didn't say you were a republican. Just said your choice hurts the GOP more than the Democrats and will lead to a less balanced system.[/QUOTE]
I think there will be some push for mandatory in January at the latest for Pfizer or whenever the vaccines are granted full approval. It seems the direction with universities, maybe there will just be enough federal push on the public and private sectors to essentially mandate it w/out an official fed mandate.
Do you work with a specific manufacturer or did your organization conduct research on multiple brands?
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1643402723]I think there will be some push for mandatory in January at the latest for Pfizer or whenever the vaccines are granted full approval. It seems the direction with universities, maybe there will just be enough federal push on the public and private sectors to essentially mandate it w/out an official fed mandate.
Do you work with a specific manufacturer or did your organization conduct research on multiple brands?[/QUOTE]
Requiring vaccines for school attendance obviously isn't new, but it's tricky when it's the teachers and not the students who are at risk. Not sure about the government's ability to require it for anyone besides civil servants they employ. That's a legal question to me, or even more, a political science/ethics one.
On my job, we work with several companies. I think it's important to be clear that I work on clinical trials for a specific product and indication. Some of the data we bring up here about COVID comes from research studies and data reviews, and not necessarily a pharma trial. The statistical analysis may be very similar, but I don't want you to think I'm working on those academic or public health studies we've discussed. In many ways, my studies' results are much easier to interpret because they're much better controlled. The stuff Tony Fauci and the rest are looking at to guide public policy is messier and harder to interpret. Despite the media, I haven't seen them try to spin what the data indicates we should do in any major way. What I do see is recommendations that are only indirectly justified by the data and details they provide. Like requesting booster shots for people who have had an infection. That's not about efficacy, it's about false positives and cross immunity studies, but with all the politics and resistance to vaccines, they really don't seem to fully disclose their rationale. I'm pretty sure you know exactly what I'm trying to say. Sorry I'm having trouble describing it.
[QUOTE=LWW;1643396883]
Misses told me if they do this here we ain’t masking up.[/QUOTE]
Good job on finding out if the missus will make you mask up or not, looks like you learned something from shooting your lips off about the no Vaccine thing.
Good thing too, you're about 1 meal of crow away from getting tail feathers and ending your sentences with Caw Caw
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1643405813]Requiring vaccines for school attendance obviously isn't new, but it's tricky when it's the teachers and not the students who are at risk. Not sure about the government's ability to require it for anyone besides civil servants they employ. That's a legal question to me, or even more, a political science/ethics one.
On my job, we work with several companies. I think it's important to be clear that I work on clinical trials for a specific product and indication. Some of the data we bring up here about COVID comes from research studies and data reviews, and not necessarily a pharma trial. The statistical analysis may be very similar, but I don't want you to think I'm working on those academic or public health studies we've discussed. In many ways, my studies' results are much easier to interpret because they're much better controlled. The stuff Tony Fauci and the rest are looking at to guide public policy is messier and harder to interpret. Despite the media, I haven't seen them try to spin what the data indicates we should do in any major way. What I do see is recommendations that are only indirectly justified by the data and details they provide. Like requesting booster shots for people who have had an infection. That's not about efficacy, it's about false positives and cross immunity studies, but with all the politics and resistance to vaccines, they really don't seem to fully disclose their rationale. I'm pretty sure you know exactly what I'm trying to say. Sorry I'm having trouble describing it.[/QUOTE]
Yes I understand. I think a lot of it is a combination of politics and partially incompetence in terms of the public health sector. It’s not always the best and the brightest when dealing with public sector employees across all sectors even medical with exceptions (many great VA docs etc). Many who are highly skilled in their “craft” would make far more money in the private sector. I just see the public officials tripping over themselves in stupid comments way too frequently. The most recent example is the CDC not only recommending against boosters, but even suggesting they could be dangerous for vaccinated individuals, which doesn’t help getting hesitant unvaccinated to be vaxxed. I have a hard time believing that elderly and immunocompromised people won’t need a booster, but need to wait for the data of breakthrough infections in these groups to make a scientific determination. They shouldn’t recommend for or against anything unless there is solid scientific evidence to support the decision. I scanned an article today allegedly by an an “expert” MD suggesting the variants happen when one person catches it from another. Completely false. That’s how variants spread, but they happen in a host as just a mutation / genetic anomaly and if those mutations happen to make those viral progeny outcompete others it becomes perhaps more infectious for example because of physical traits and could become a dominant variant. Just too much junk, I think they should stay with a simple message, let the data drive people’s decision making process and there would be a lot less pushback.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1643365693]
That sucks, hope it turns around for you. Damn moderna turning chickens into dogs. How did it smell good, then smell like wet dog though? It’s been months w/out an appetite that you think you lost due to being vaccinated. Have you seen like a doctor IRL yet? Might want to get that checked out.[/QUOTE]
I was telling a coworker about it and she said it happened to a friend, the friend went to a doc who gave her something to adjust her hormones and the sense of smell and appetite returned.
I might tell my Urologist about it as he's the one that does my blood tests and checks my levels since I'm on TRT.
[QUOTE=Bando;1643412163]I was telling a coworker about it and she said it happened to a friend, the friend went to a doc who gave her something to adjust her hormones and the sense of smell and appetite returned.
I might tell my Urologist about it as he's the one that does my blood tests and checks my levels since I'm on TRT.[/QUOTE]
Olfactory paralysis thing is weird I’m only familiar with that through chemical hazards like hydrogen sulfide. If it’s hormonal I wonder if it has to do with effecting gherlin and leptin. Could be a major discovery for weight-loss. I’d be all for an effective appetite suppressant when dieting.
So…just heard from my friend…his father in law met his 5 siblings a few days ago.
He said he thinks all were vaccinated - but for sure most were.
All of em down with covid…trying to get more info…fkn helll!
[QUOTE=TryingBB;1643415523]So…just heard from my friend…his father in law met his 5 siblings a few days ago.
He said he thinks all were vaccinated - but for sure most were.
All of em down with covid…trying to get more info…fkn helll![/QUOTE]
The vax doesn’t necessarily prevent one from getting the virus, but it does decrease the risks of being hospitalized and dying.
[QUOTE=Mark1T;1643418353]The vax doesn’t necessarily prevent one from getting the virus, but it does decrease the risks of being hospitalized and dying.[/QUOTE]
Supposedly it does reduce the chances of transmission also. No? That was my understanding.
But if 5 out of 5 got it, that’s the worst case scenario. Seems like they did spend a lot of time together (several hours maybe).
We’ve been texting. I’ll call him tomorrow and find out more.
Gonna cancel my vacay to Yellowstone :(
and also gonna stop dining out at Restauraunt if it is very busy. Take home, reheat (air fryer/toaster hnnng) and eat
I heard that even the vaxxed can transmit, but Plat can answer that better than I can.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1643414323] I wonder if it has to do with effecting gherlin and leptin. Could be a major discovery for weight-loss. I’d be all for an effective appetite suppressant when dieting.[/QUOTE]
She said she lost 30 lbs before getting worried about it, I have no idea what her baseline was.
For me it's been protein shakes, scrambled eggs, iced tea and beer.
Not to be crude but that's not a satisfying outcome on the other end.
[QUOTE=Mark1T;1643420323]I heard that even the vaxxed can transmit, but Plat can answer that better than I can.[/QUOTE]
It should lower the amount of viral shedding because the case should be less severe, with some level of protection. That would be better answered by justthedad, as he might have access to better data than is reported publicly. When there is a reduction in shedding it would still be numbers so big I can’t comprehend them. If a cell were the size of a pinhead, millions of viruses could occupy that space. When a virus invades a cell, it takes over and makes the cell replicate itself until the cellular lysis occurs and the cell pops like a balloon releasing all those viral progeny. They go on to infect other cells, some make it to the respiratory system where they could be exhaled, coughed, sneezed etc, the gastrointestinal tract where they are defecated. This happens over and over in the body, so the numbers are really really big. If all the people were vaccinated and all got symptoms that is certainly not a good sign though. There are people who the vaccine won’t work for or will be less effective but it shouldn’t be 5/5.
publicly reported for AZ was someone vaccinated and positive (2 doses and after x number of weeks) was 50% less (well it said between 40 and 60%, so let's say 50) likely to infect another person compared to an unvaccinated person. Posted this with underlying link in another chat (can't be bothered to link to study again here, unless asked, but was sourced not pulled number out my azz). Presumably other vax have their own (similar?) stats.
While behaviour or whatever means the R is already low, that 50% reduction can push the R <1 and see the numbers drop, if the behaviour puts the R high then that 50% may not push R<1. That's the argument given for maintaining some forms of R reducing controls despite vaccination, that a lower general R is needed for vaccination to reduce it below 1
It is completely political too because just suppose most population is vaccinated: do you want to shoot for covid-zero or do you want to allow it to slow spread (greatly reduced risk if people vaccinated) to achieve population immunity that way. There opinions will differ depending on whether policy is covid-zero or managed covid. Australia is pursuing a covid-zero strategy the UK is pursuing managed covid, for example.
I have no clue what the US is attempting
Let me ask another question - and I’ll follow this up for some research in the morning…
Is the present day flu the same as the Spanish flu?
There is a path and a story we’re all following (including vaxxers and non vaxxers lololol) -
some (the writers/planners) know what the ending of the story reads - the rest of us will find out as it plays along
Edit: have fun reading some of this…I think some of the last few posts make a lot of sense… [url]https://www.google.com/search?q=is+present+day+flu+same+as+spanish+flu[/url]
And specially this one link : [url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu[/url]
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1643431813]It should lower the amount of viral shedding because the case should be less severe, with some level of protection. That would be better answered by justthedad, as he might have access to better data than is reported publicly. When there is a reduction in shedding it would still be numbers so big I can’t comprehend them. If a cell were the size of a pinhead, millions of viruses could occupy that space. When a virus invades a cell, it takes over and makes the cell replicate itself until the cellular lysis occurs and the cell pops like a balloon releasing all those viral progeny. They go on to infect other cells, some make it to the respiratory system where they could be exhaled, coughed, sneezed etc, the gastrointestinal tract where they are defecated. This happens over and over in the body, so the numbers are really really big. If all the people were vaccinated and all got symptoms that is certainly not a good sign though. There are people who the vaccine won’t work for or will be less effective but it shouldn’t be 5/5.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the explanation. Makes logical sense.
The day after my upper arm is sore but no other sides. I worked out and loosened it a bit. The soreness I have read is the vax starting to work and build antibodies.
[QUOTE=Bando;1643412163]I was telling a coworker about it and she said it happened to a friend, the friend went to a doc who gave her something to adjust her hormones and the sense of smell and appetite returned.
I might tell my Urologist about it as he's the one that does my blood tests and checks my levels since I'm on TRT.[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing your parosmia means you are actually recovering, but I'd still check out the link below. I don't know if olfactory training helps once you've reached parosmia, but it can't hurt and it's easy. Good luck.
[url]https://abscent.org/learn-us/smell-training[/url]
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1643431813]It should lower the amount of viral shedding because the case should be less severe, with some level of protection. That would be better answered by justthedad, as he might have access to better data than is reported publicly. When there is a reduction in shedding it would still be numbers so big I can’t comprehend them. If a cell were the size of a pinhead, millions of viruses could occupy that space. When a virus invades a cell, it takes over and makes the cell replicate itself until the cellular lysis occurs and the cell pops like a balloon releasing all those viral progeny. They go on to infect other cells, some make it to the respiratory system where they could be exhaled, coughed, sneezed etc, the gastrointestinal tract where they are defecated. This happens over and over in the body, so the numbers are really really big. If all the people were vaccinated and all got symptoms that is certainly not a good sign though. There are people who the vaccine won’t work for or will be less effective but it shouldn’t be 5/5.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I can't add anything to what you wrote. You covered it well and I haven't seen any viral load data comparing vaccinated people with breakthrough infections to unvaccinated people. I suspect we could find it with a search, and logically a more prepared immune system should lead to lower viral loads. I may not have time to look into it today but will if I get the chance.