Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=NorwichGrad;1642048893]"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

In the past, it is historically accurate that vaccines have saved lives. We cannot deny this. Nobody is denying it. Right? Right.

But..

Back then America was not the fascist corporatist that it is now. Also back then there was such thing as accountability.


Fast forward to today. Big pharma cannot be sued. Big pharma generates lots of income. And big pharma has injured many over the years. Yet they remained above the law.

The merging of banks and gubmint, education and gubmint, organized religion and gubmint, media and gubmint, hollywood and gubmint, big pharma and gubmint, you get the idea. The merging of all these powerful entities with gubmint created a central power that King George of England could only achieve in his wet dreams.

But nobody wants to talk about the dangerous centralized powers of the neo fascist corporatists...

Because fear got them by the ballz.


Vaccinations had good intentions in the past. But powers that be saw the potential for cha-ching and control. So they paved the way to hell.[/QUOTE]

The vaccines are good now, especially for vulnerable / higher risk people. There would be a lot more deaths without them. That said, big pharma does have a lot of influence in government, they are a powerful and rich lobbyist.

[QUOTE=NorwichGrad;1642030203]Just print and fill out. And make sure you buy a plastic holder to make it look more legit.

[url]https://s2underground.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/covid-vaccine-card-version-2.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]

Got it! Awesome thank you!!!


[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1642032173]Many women are ruled by fear and worry and you know this already. She just wants you around to get old with her, it is as simple as that![/QUOTE]

Yeah I know her intentions are always good, she is my rock, but at the same time she should know I am not going to do something for anyone else, it is in my DNA, it is how I am wired.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1642045743]Those cannot be facts...[/QUOTE] Will dig up some supporting link when I get chance.

Maybe some things presented to me as researched facts are also opinion. The closer we look the more politics and opinions replace supposed facts :(

It's a sad world when WHO is moving to put traditional Chinese medicine on an equal status to evidence based medicine. Here's a link to nature on that not alt media [url]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06782-7[/url] we really are left with a "who do you trust" situation that only inflates the conspiracy nonsense

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1642045743]Those cannot be facts, because it is unknown if post infection vaccination has any effect on contracting covid, because reinfection is essentially nonexistent. It’s much lower than breakthrough cases of covid in vaccinated people. The vaccine doesn’t appear to cause any immediate negative effect to them either considering the high number of people who had covid and were later vaccinated and read that it helped some who had long lasting symptoms get better (not sure if that’s true or not didn’t see a study). So far confirmed reinfection is really low, within the range of one confirming tests being a false positive. I think Sweden did a global study of reinfection and it was under 200 known cases globally as of several months ago.[/QUOTE]
Reinfection is certainly possible but is rare, in the UK there is no officially released data but there is active surveillance program [url]https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-reinfection-surveillance/information-on-covid-19-reinfection-surveillance-in-england[/url] to quantify this.

The *speculation* is that reinfection of people who had Covid but no vaccination will increase over time as immunity wears off, although so far immunity seems to remain robust. On that topic I read [url]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9[/url] which seems more positive that early assumptions

With long Covid I heard that 30% of people had improved after both doses of vaccination but I can't attribute that statistic to an underlying study

Despite still being presented as "fact" in NHS faq - which you clarify as opinion and assumption - thank you even your CDC states "...Studies have shown that vaccination provides a strong boost in protection in people who have recovered from COVID-19.." [url]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html[/url] but I find no studies on that

Apologies that my post will read like an anti Vax conspiracy theorists (which I am definitely not). It does seem there's no actual evidence. You're right what I though was fact is actually opinion and part of a campaign to encourage vaccination of those who already had Covid, which may well be unnecessary.

The main benefit of blanket vaccination is that it's easier to track who's been vaccinated than who may have had Covid. So bureaucratic reasons not clinical?

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1642102033]Reinfection is certainly possible but is rare, in the UK there is no officially released data but there is active surveillance program [url]https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-reinfection-surveillance/information-on-covid-19-reinfection-surveillance-in-england[/url] to quantify this.

The *speculation* is that reinfection of people who had Covid but no vaccination will increase over time as immunity wears off, although so far immunity seems to remain robust. On that topic I read [url]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9[/url] which seems more positive that early assumptions

With long Covid I heard that 30% of people had improved after both doses of vaccination but I can't attribute that statistic to an underlying study

Despite still being presented as "fact" in NHS faq - which you clarify as opinion and assumption - thank you even your CDC states "...Studies have shown that vaccination provides a strong boost in protection in people who have recovered from COVID-19.." [url]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html[/url] but I find no studies on that

Apologies that my post will read like an anti Vax conspiracy theorists (which I am definitely not). It does seem there's no actual evidence. You're right what I though was fact is actually opinion and part of a campaign to encourage vaccination of those who already had Covid, which may well be unnecessary.

The main benefit of blanket vaccination is that it's easier to track who's been vaccinated than who may have had Covid. So bureaucratic reasons not clinical?[/QUOTE]

Yes, bureaucratic and financial. There could be “proof” that a vaccination of people who had infection will cause an immune response (this is likely) however it doesn’t mean anything because reinfection is essentially nonexistent in real terms. I am guessing that immunity will also be essentially permanent. We don’t get reinfected with the other 7-8 coronaviruses either. The “science” on this is all in the $hitter at this point, it is tightly controlled, information is suppressed and things that are expressed by the CDC and similar entities don’t fit into the physics of how microbiology/pathology/immunology work. There is the potential for an actual variant that causes enough genetic change that we are back to square one, but it is highly unlikely. Coronaviruses don’t swap genetic material as freely as influenza viruses do (genetic recombination) which is why we have annual flu outbreaks but do not have annual coronavirus outbreaks of the other common strains that affect humans.

I am pro vaccine for everyone who wants it. I think it’s a good idea for everyone that hasn’t had covid, because it can kill even low risk people who likely have a genetic trait that makes them more vulnerable. I am very much apposed to forced vaccination especially in people who had covid. They appear to be the group who have a higher percentage of adverse reactions to the vaccines too, likely because they are already immune and natural exposure to the virus would not be the same as inoculation with a vaccine designed to initiate an immune response. Covid is going to be a minor disease, likely forever. Those who get it will likely be fine, those who get vaccinated will likely be fine, some will die from it in both groups. Groups who haven’t had it or been vaccinated will still allow the virus to continue on, albeit at a low level. That is the reason for the push for vaccines and I understand that, but it should be presented differently than the way it has been. The only thing being accomplished now is creating division, and the loss of credibility for people who understand how diseases work when horse$hit narratives and fake science are pushed.

Remember folks: FOLLOW THE SCIENCE - but only the science we are touting at any given time.

Masks don't work.
Masks DO work.
If you get the vaccine, you still need to wear a mask and social distance.
If you get the vaccine, you do not still need to wear a mask and social distance.
The idea that the virus started in a lab in China is a conspiracy theory.
There is REAL PROOF that the virus started in a lab in China.
Joe Biden got 81 million real, legal votes.

[QUOTE=CommitmentRulz;1642105703]Remember folks: FOLLOW THE SCIENCE - but only the science we are touting at any given time.

Masks don't work.
Masks DO work.
If you get the vaccine, you still need to wear a mask and social distance.
If you get the vaccine, you do not still need to wear a mask and social distance.
The idea that the virus started in a lab in China is a conspiracy theory.
There is REAL PROOF that the virus started in a lab in China.
Joe Biden got 81 million real, legal votes.[/QUOTE]

Recovered from covid, fully vaxxed, and still wearing masks outdoors. Science...

[youtube]sde3p19Zd7U[/youtube]

Guys, I lost another pound this week, went from 234 to 222 in like 6 weeks........

I’m gonna buy a pack bagels now!

I’ll eat one like every two days!!!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/KLefrie.png[/img]

[QUOTE=LWW;1642107193]Guys, I lost another pound this week, went from 234 to 222 in like 6 weeks........

I’m gonna buy a pack bagels now!

I’ll eat one like every two days!!![/QUOTE]
Congrats.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1642107233] snip ][/QUOTE]

I was telling my wife and kids about you when we were hiking through the mountains the other day. How even at 62 (guess 63 now, happy birthday)you just get dropped off in the middle of nowhere and hike back solo. I loved the hikes we did in the mountains, but I can’t even fathom carrying enough stuff for a week and trekking solo. I’d need a mule like that guy on grizzly adams.

The stuff I brought barely fit in the cabin and most of it didn’t get used. I’d be like one of those AT through hikers that ditches thousand $ in gear because they bring too much unnecessary $hit and need to lighten their packs 7 miles in :p

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1642104823]Yes, bureaucratic and financial. There could be “proof” that a vaccination of people who had infection will cause an immune response (this is likely) however it doesn’t mean anything because reinfection is essentially nonexistent in real terms. I am guessing that immunity will also be essentially permanent. We don’t get reinfected with the other 7-8 coronaviruses either. The “science” on this is all in the $hitter at this point, it is tightly controlled, information is suppressed and things that are expressed by the CDC and similar entities don’t fit into the physics of how microbiology/pathology/immunology work. There is the potential for an actual variant that causes enough genetic change that we are back to square one, but it is highly unlikely. Coronaviruses don’t swap genetic material as freely as influenza viruses do (genetic recombination) which is why we have annual flu outbreaks but do not have annual coronavirus outbreaks of the other common strains that affect humans.

I am pro vaccine for everyone who wants it. I think it’s a good idea for everyone that hasn’t had covid, because it can kill even low risk people who likely have a genetic trait that makes them more vulnerable. I am very much apposed to forced vaccination especially in people who had covid. They appear to be the group who have a higher percentage of adverse reactions to the vaccines too, likely because they are already immune and natural exposure to the virus would not be the same as inoculation with a vaccine designed to initiate an immune response. Covid is going to be a minor disease, likely forever. Those who get it will likely be fine, those who get vaccinated will likely be fine, some will die from it in both groups. Groups who haven’t had it or been vaccinated will still allow the virus to continue on, albeit at a low level. That is the reason for the push for vaccines and I understand that, but it should be presented differently than the way it has been. The only thing being accomplished now is creating division, and the loss of credibility for people who understand how diseases work when horse$hit narratives and fake science are pushed.[/QUOTE]


The other 4 coronavirus clades circulating in humans commonly infect the same host many times over because each clade has extensive genetic diversity. They would be extinct if not. You may have immunity for very long periods of time against a single genetic variant, but not against all variants within the clade. The same thing will likely happen with SARSCOV2.

We need seasonal influenza vaccines because of antigenic drift — point mutations. Antigenic shift is rare and is not the reason we need annual flu vaccines. Shift leads to events like 2009 pandemic.

We see seasonal outbreaks of Coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1 in the same way we see seasonality of influenza. Yes they are more genetically stable, but that doesn’t mean you have life long immunity to the clade after one infection lol. SARSCOV2 annual vaccines… prob not. Every few years, probably.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1642113083]The other 4 coronavirus clades circulating in humans commonly infect the same host many times over because each clade has extensive genetic diversity. They would be extinct if not. You may have immunity for very long periods of time against a single genetic variant, but not against all variants within the clade. The same thing will likely happen with SARSCOV2.

We need seasonal influenza vaccines because of antigenic drift — point mutations. Antigenic shift is rare and is not the reason we need annual flu vaccines. Shift leads to events like 2009 pandemic.

We see seasonal outbreaks of Coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1 in the same way we see seasonality of influenza. Yes they are more genetically stable, but that doesn’t mean you have life long immunity to the clade after one infection lol. SARSCOV2 annual vaccines… prob not. Every few years, probably.[/QUOTE]

You do not catch the same coronavirus strain over and over. Influenza viruses are able to share genes between various types that can infect multiple hosts, hence crossing of bird and swine types of influenza viruses then jump8ng to humans. The saying you don’t catch the same cold twice is actually very true. There are a lot of cold viruses that circulate. As time goes on, covid will be nothing more than that. Before that point, the level of death from it will make it inconsequential in terms of overall mortality (we are at that point now, but many are clinging on, and selling fear to advance profits and agendas). Of the 8,000 or so deaths everyday in the US, 300 attributed to covid is actually pretty low in comparison to risks of obesity, smoking etc.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1642131603]You do not catch the same coronavirus strain over and over. Influenza viruses are able to share genes between various types that can infect multiple hosts, hence crossing of bird and swine types of influenza viruses then jump8ng to humans. The saying you don’t catch the same cold twice is actually very true. There are a lot of cold viruses that circulate. As time goes on, covid will be nothing more than that. Before that point, the level of death from it will make it inconsequential in terms of overall mortality (we are at that point now, but many are clinging on, and selling fear to advance profits and agendas). Of the 8,000 or so deaths everyday in the US, 300 attributed to covid is actually pretty low in comparison to risks of obesity, smoking etc.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t say strain. I said clade. Many strains exist within any one monophyletic clade of endemic human coronavirus. I guess my point was SARSCOV2 is a clade, and because many strains of the virus will be generated over time, permanent immunity to “SARSCOV2” after one infection or vaccine is unlikely.

And what you described with influenza is called antigenic shift. I was pointing out that counter to what you said, that is not the reason we need vaccines annually for influenza. But you’re right, influenza can swap genes with entirely unrelated influenza viruses and this is pretty unusual with viruses. It’s due in part to the segmented genome.

I hope you’re right and that SARSCOV2 does become another common cold culprit. But I’m not as confident as you are.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1642132913]I didn’t say strain....[/QUOTE]
Informative knowledge based post, with sensible discussion letting readers learn something. That's unfortunately a rarity, not even NHS or CDC guidance seem willing to do that.

THANK YOU! Reliance and PP

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1642108253]I was telling my wife and kids about you when we were hiking through the mountains the other day. How even at 62 (guess 63 now, happy birthday)you just get dropped off in the middle of nowhere and hike back solo. I loved the hikes we did in the mountains, but I can’t even fathom carrying enough stuff for a week and trekking solo. I’d need a mule like that guy on grizzly adams.

The stuff I brought barely fit in the cabin and most of it didn’t get used. I’d be like one of those AT through hikers that ditches thousand $ in gear because they bring too much unnecessary $hit and need to lighten their packs 7 miles in :p[/QUOTE]





Sounds like you guys are having a great time on your vacation. That's just wonderful. Yeah, we all have a tendency to take more gear than we need, after all these years I still struggle with it lol. Enjoy the vacation, hope the weather cooperates for you guys..

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1642132913]I didn’t say strain. I said clade. Many strains exist within any one monophyletic clade of endemic human coronavirus. I guess my point was SARSCOV2 is a clade, and because many strains of the virus will be generated over time, permanent immunity to “SARSCOV2” after one infection or vaccine is unlikely.

And what you described with influenza is called antigenic shift. I was pointing out that counter to what you said, that is not the reason we need vaccines annually for influenza. But you’re right, influenza can swap genes with entirely unrelated influenza viruses and this is pretty unusual with viruses. It’s due in part to the segmented genome.

I hope you’re right and that SARSCOV2 does become another common cold culprit. But I’m not as confident as you are.[/QUOTE]

I’ve had two lengthy responses disappear due to site crashing. Overall, I agree the virus will not be eradicated and will persist in small outbreaks primarily in rural areas where low post infection immunity and low vaccine uptake are common. That said, with the numbers already infected and vaccinated it is no longer a public health priority in terms of deaths. Communicable diseases, even mild respiratory diseases kill people, especially elderly and immunocompromised groups. This will be no different than many other diseases that take lives every year.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1642138583]Sounds like you guys are having a great time on your vacation. That's just wonderful. Yeah, we all have a tendency to take more gear than we need, after all these years I still struggle with it lol. Enjoy the vacation, hope the weather cooperates for you guys..[/QUOTE]
We’re back, we checked out on Thursday and drove straight through. It was a long drive back, 10 hrs or so, it poured all the way through Kentucky. It was great and we are planning to book a week next year to do more hiking. We didn’t have enough time, but it was the only dates we found without hopping from one air b&b to another. I wouldn’t move to the immediate area, but would highly consider the surrounding areas for a retirement location. Really loved the views and the weather is reportedly more temperate than many mountainous areas I’ve been to.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/sKpfMtf.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ynK6AqU.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/vXMERv3.jpg[/img]

i found the pbs video with Judy and Fauci describing the changing percentages.

[youtube]cJEz8Xfq9iU[/youtube]



Then Israel mentions this today regarding Delta......[url]www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9757735/Pfizer-vaccine-efficacy-drops-Israel-delta-variant-spreads.html[/url]

My second Pfizer dose is the 22nd this month. I hope I don’t die before then :(

[QUOTE=Mark1T;1642283593]My second Pfizer dose is the 22nd this month. I hope I don’t die before then :([/QUOTE]


LOL I think you'll make it. My second dose of Pfizer is Thursday if I don't miss it. I already missed 3 appointments because I found funner things to do.. lol

Everyone I talk to is having a hell of a time with the second shot, not looking forward to it



[img]https://i.imgur.com/l5VKZD2.png[/img]

Thanks, MT. I hope it goes well for you. Let us know ;)

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1642284433]LOL I think you'll make it. My second dose of Pfizer is Thursday if I don't miss it. I already missed 3 appointments because I found funner things to do.. lol

Everyone I talk to is having a hell of a time with the second shot, not looking forward to it



[img]https://i.imgur.com/l5VKZD2.png[/img][/QUOTE]

Stop being a pu$$y and go get that shot. You die if you die. Was gonna happen anyways...not srs

Most people get mild symptoms - you’ll be all right. Me and chick had “about to get badly sick” type symptoms but after couple Tylenols and 1.5 days the feeling went away and felt fine. Know couple kids (under 16) who had very mild but similar response and a coupe other kids who got a minor headache and that was it

Stop being a puss and go get it. Hey, you may even get a sticker. That’s fun. What do you say? :p

[QUOTE=TryingBB;1642288403]Stop being a pu$$y and go get that shot. You die if you die. Was gonna happen anyways...not srs

Most people get mild symptoms - you’ll be all right. Me and chick had “about to get badly sick” type symptoms but after couple Tylenols and 1.5 days the feeling went away and felt fine. Know couple kids (under 16) who had very mild but similar response and a coupe other kids who got a minor headache and that was it

Stop being a puss and go get it. Hey, you may even get a sticker. That’s fun. What do you say? :p[/QUOTE]


Ha Ha I love stickers..

Looks like it will be raining on Thursday so I will get it done this time... I missed it 3 times so far because I went fishing twice and flying another time..I have no problem getting the shot, it's missing a nice day and fun activities that is my problem lol..

Glad you guys survived...

Pockets messsged me, his tummy was turning all night, he’s having a mental battle right now, to go, or not to go........

[QUOTE=LWW;1642408043]Pockets messsged me, his tummy was turning all night, he’s having a mental battle right now, to go, or not to go........[/QUOTE]

hahaha

I got er done ya lil fuktard.. This boy is on Pfizer X2

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1642409453]hahaha

I got er done ya lil fuktard.. This boy is on Pfizer X2[/QUOTE]

A buddy(insider) told me that next Mayish we will get a booster pill from Moderna.
He has been right about everything so far.