Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639495583]
Far too many people in the US are so miserable about political outcomes that they tie everything in life to it.[/QUOTE]

You are clueless, politics has fuked everyone who has worked hard in this country, and continues to do so.

Where have you been the last year, you saying you are really happy? But actually 2016-2019 were the happiest days I’ve had since the 90s.............

Things are already starting to look like 2006, which was horrible.

The statement about Biden was, he’s not going to fool me with empty chairs comments, and about the UK as long as US has dems in power this is a global mindset, there is no individual USA with Dem in power, right now, they are in total control.

[QUOTE=LWW;1639502383]You are clueless, politics has fuked everyone who has worked hard in this country, and continues to do so.

Where have you been the last year, you saying you are really happy? But actually 2016-2019 were the happiest days I’ve had since the 90s.............

Things are already starting to look like 2006, which was horrible.

The statement about Biden was, he’s not going to fool me with empty chairs comments, and about the UK as long as US has dems in power this is a global mindset, there is no individual USA with Dem in power, right now, they are in total control.[/QUOTE]

I actually share some of your sentiments about this country and I can often catch myself making comments about rewarding the lazy and punishing the hardworking. I just try my best to not let that make me an angry and unhappy person regardless of how certain things may frustrate me. I am aware we get one very short and fragile life in this world, and I do my best to look at the positives and enjoy the moment. It seems like someone like yourself makes everything political and carries a real anger with you nearly every moment of your life. And I don't mean that as an insult, just an observation, and one that may be pretty off base as it's hard to interpret real emotions or feelings over the internet, or how much of your posts are humor based or trolling.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639503503]I actually share some of your sentiments about this country and I can often catch myself making comments about rewarding the lazy and punishing the hardworking. I just try my best to not let that make me an angry and unhappy person regardless of how certain things may frustrate me. I am aware we get one very short and fragile life in this world, and I do my best to look at the positives and enjoy the moment. It seems like someone like yourself makes everything political and carries a real anger with you nearly every moment of your life. And I don't mean that as an insult, just an observation, and one that may be pretty off base as it's hard to interpret real emotions or feelings over the internet, or how much of your posts are humor based or trolling.[/QUOTE]


I didn't come on here and just rant like a guy angry at the world, I replied and called out your nonsense because you missed that people were allowed out in the streets for months protesting, yet a person trying to earn a living could not, and yeah THAT FUKING pissing me off.......................................

Also you can't even see what was going on in housing projects during covid, I'm sure they weren't sitting around bunkered-in, sipping tea.......

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1639489713]Paul, I can't quote your post saying the lockdowns did more harm than good or the "death rates". So were those death rates supposed to be the CFRs, or the IFRs? Either way, 5.4% is a pretty high mortality rate, as is .5%.

There are something like 80 million people in the US between 40 and 59, so if we apply your .5% mortality rate to them, it's 400,000 deaths. You left out the 60-69 year olds, so we'd need to apply a higher to them, right? Another 400,000 deaths? With the lockdowns the virus still infected a large% of the population in just one year, but you want to pull possible deaths for in other countries to show they weren't doing some good in the US? Without them, we'd have had more cases and that would have potentially resulted in an even higher mortality rate in each age group.

You really need to avoid taking so many things out of context. It's possible you just don't understand, but you should learn. Look at your biggest potential source for increased mortality from the lockdowns. TB cases. 1.4 million is plausible, but it's the worst case scenario from a model of what could happen if no additional intervention is done to speed up the return to normal treatments globally. In India, one of the countries with the greatest potential increased mortality in that model, the worst case scenario is an increase of ~70K deaths due to TB, over 5 years/ month of lock down. Their COVID mortality rate went over 4k per day, so an actual 120K per month rate, vs a worst case scenario of 70K per 5 years per month of lockdown. Do math Paul, you're comparing a potential mortality increase of 1,700 per month increase to an actual rate of over 4000 per day when they stopped the lockdowns. If that's not clear enough, just realize you're pulling random numbers from calculations done on TB, Malaria, and HIV in third world countries modeled over years, and ignoring that those are possible deaths in populations that would have extremely high mortality rate from SARS cov2. Your math doesn't actually show what you want it to show. It actually supports the lockdowns and vaccines, but unfortunately, you again didn't understand or bother learning to read the data.

I'm not arguing the lockdowns were well thought out or implemented. I'm only pointing out that even when you cherry pick the data points you think support your theories that the vaccines aren't helpful or that the lockdowns increased mortality, those data points don't actually support them. Sorry.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what post are you trying to quote? And what math?
Those numbers were released from the CDC directly you do realize so I’m not really sure whom you are trying to argue..? But I’m sure they will appreciate the well thought out post...

[url]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html[/url]

0-19 years: 3 deaths per 100,000 infections
20-49 years: 2 deaths per 10,000 infections
50-69 years: 5 deaths per 1,000 infections
70+ years: 5.4 deaths per 100 infections

Also if you are going to believe the number of Covid deaths are correct of what they are selling you, you should also realize that the CDC directed all medical professionals to list ALL DEATH CASES as covid whether tested positive or not. So..I’m not really buying those “Covid death numbers”

“Following new CDC guidelines: "As of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed and probable cases and deaths. This change was made to reflect an interim COVID-19 position statement issued by the Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists on April 5, 2020. The position statement included a case definition and made COVID-19 a nationally notifiable disease.”

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/us-data/[/url]

I guess if you want to write to the CDC & let them know how inaccurate their “math” is, you are more than welcome too..short of that, IDK what to tell ya Batman..

[QUOTE=mgftp;1639495583]That alone puts you ahead of most miscers from what I can see. lol



On a very surface level I agree on shutdowns and necessity when it comes to where, how long, etc. It's really hard to say. My point to Paul was that he was saying the med ship brought to NY was barely used in one post, then saying we didn't need to do shutdowns in a following post. Being in NY and working in healthcare I am sure that ship would have been used to overflow if we carried on with life as normal.

And just now I am realizing Paul is the same poster who was saying people with Covid antibodies should have been in vaccine clinical trials. I find it hard to keep everyone around here straight unless they really stand out like yourself. If you are too harsh I am way worse since I can't keep posters straight and just seemingly lump the people with the same mindsets together, which is clearly wrong.



Far too many people in the US are so miserable about political outcomes that they tie everything in life to it.[/QUOTE]

Btw, I never once said people with Covid should have been in trials..maybe go back & re-read the posts..maybe you can figure it out this time.I have faith in you.

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639513273]Exactly what post are you trying to quote? And what math?
[/QUOTE]

The one with those numbers. Wouldn't accept it. Gave me a message saying I didn't have permission to post on this server. Was odd.

Anyway, those are IFRs, not CFRs, and that's how I entered them to give you example numbers. I'm surprised the US IFR is that high, but the point is those rates result in models supporting the lockdowns. That's taking into account all your sources of additional morbidity and mortality. It comes down to how screening tests work. Number of tests to save a life vs increased survival years after diagnosis.
Also, some of the numbers you posted were from models being used to help evaluate where we need to intervene. They aren't actual death rates, they're the worst case scenario of what might happen if we do nothing to prevent them. But again, even if we do nothing, they're the worst case. They're from the same type of models that support the lockdowns while using your numbers.
You didn't set up a straw man argument which is good, but you got mislead about what you were posting and what conclusions it supported.

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1639524323]The one with those numbers. Wouldn't accept it. Gave me a message saying I didn't have permission to post on this server. Was odd.

Anyway, those are IFRs, not CFRs, and that's how I entered them to give you example numbers. I'm surprised the US IFR is that high, but the point is those rates result in models supporting the lockdowns. That's taking into account all your sources of additional morbidity and mortality. It comes down to how screening tests work. Number of tests to save a life vs increased survival years after diagnosis.
Also, some of the numbers you posted were from models being used to help evaluate where we need to intervene. They aren't actual death rates, they're the worst case scenario of what might happen if we do nothing to prevent them. But again, even if we do nothing, they're the worst case. They're from the same type of models that support the lockdowns while using your numbers.
You didn't set up a straw man argument which is good, but you got mislead about what you were posting and what conclusions it supported.[/QUOTE]

I did not get misled by anything..you tried to prove my “math” wrong, when I was simply showing what the CDC directly posted. As far as the testing..well we know the faults of the PCR test. We know it is not a viral test but rather a bacteria test, we know what Mullis creator of the test stated regarding it, & we know the false classification of deaths the CDC is doing as the link I posted shows..if anything, I’m sorry, but I think you are being “mislead”

Dr. Fauci: Any PCR-positive with a CT over 35 is "just dead nucleotides, PERIOD." - TWiV # 641
ALSO Dr. Fauci: Let's keep testing everyone with the PCR-positive cutoff at 40 CT, guaranteeing massive false-positives

Lockdowns never once proved to save lives.

Well, you've impressed me again by actually demonstrating you know less about how PCR tests work than most middle school kids and still trying to argue about this.

You're making me sad. Please go read more. Even a wiki page should help you understand it isn't a viral test or a bacteria test.

I’d rather wait. If you want to or have, cool.

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1639526273]Well, you've impressed me again by actually demonstrating you know less about how PCR tests work than most middle school kids and still trying to argue about this.

You're making me sad. Please go read more. Even a wiki page should help you understand it isn't a viral test or a bacteria test.[/QUOTE]

Oh? Can we just find out from the creator himself?

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W8FYWzkR1ek[/url]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ZmZft4fXhQQ[/url]

Or do you know more than the actual guy that created the test on this one too?

The video you linked is really old and he is explaining why he believes HIV virus isn't the cause of AIDS. He believes that HIV is common and in the background of general human population and therefore testing for it with PCR is misleading. How is that interview relevant to whether PCR can be used to test for SARS-CoV2?
Or are you applying the same argument because you believe that SARS-CoV2 is common and not the cause of COVID?

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1639527733]The video you linked is really old and he is explaining why he believes HIV virus isn't the cause of AIDS. He believes that HIV is common and in the background of general human population and therefore testing for it with PCR is misleading. How is that interview relevant to whether PCR can be used to test for SARS-CoV2?
Or are you applying the same argument because you believe that SARS-CoV2 is common and not the cause of COVID?[/QUOTE]

I posted 2 videos..you should watch the full uncut versions. I can link if you like.
He is explaining that you can put any kind of genetic material into the test & conjure up anything you would like it to say with enough replication events. This is what was done with Covid. Again..

Dr. Fauci: Any PCR-positive with a CT over 35 is "just dead nucleotides, PERIOD." - TWiV # 641

[url]https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-641/[/url]

ALSO Dr. Fauci: Let's keep testing everyone with the PCR-positive cutoff at 40 CT, guaranteeing massive false-positives

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639526663]Oh? Can we just find out from the creator himself?

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W8FYWzkR1ek[/url]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ZmZft4fXhQQ[/url]

Or do you know more than the actual guy that created the test on this one too?[/QUOTE]

Tell us in your own words, why specifically you think PCR would work on a prokaryote but not a virus? I want you to think. Not copy and paste things. Put it in your own words.

And Mullis is not saying PCR doesn’t work for testing for infectious organisms. He’s saying the test result can be misinterpreted in a medically relevant way. This is why PCR tests are vetted with positive and negative controls. This is why for rtPCR, ct values are relative the specific test. Different primers for different genes will amplify at different rates. (I’ll also remind you that he, while brilliant, was trying to explain away positive HIV PCR tests because he was adamant HIV did not cause AIDS).

There are hundreds of articles that have examined the specificity and sensitivity of PCR tests with regard to SARSCOV2. The ironic part of your misunderstanding is that false negatives are more common than false positives, and PCR decreases in sensitivity the longer an individual is infected.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1639528813]Tell us in your own words, why specifically you think PCR would work on a prokaryote but not a virus? I want you to think. Not copy and paste things. Put it in your own words.

And Mullis is not saying PCR doesn’t work for testing for infectious organisms. He’s saying the test result can be misinterpreted in a medically relevant way. This is why PCR tests are vetted with positive and negative controls. This is why for rtPCR, ct values are relative the specific test. Different primers for different genes will amplify at different rates. (I’ll also remind you that he, while brilliant, was trying to explain away positive HIV PCR tests because he was adamant HIV did not cause AIDS).

There are hundreds of articles that have examined the specificity and sensitivity of PCR tests with regard to SARSCOV2. The ironic part of your misunderstanding is that false negatives are more common than false positives, and PCR decreases in sensitivity the longer an individual is infected.[/QUOTE]

This is why I try not to respond to you. You literally have no idea what is going on in the real world.

“WHO Finally Admits COVID-19 PCR Test Has a ‘Problem”

[url]https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/who-admits-covid-pcr-test-has-a-problem/[/url]

“The thing is, the more cycles that a test goes through, the more likely that a false positive will come up — anything over 30 cycles actually magnifies the samples so much that even insignificant sequences of viral DNA end up being magnified to the point that the test reads positive even if your viral load is extremely low or the virus is inactive and poses no threat to you or anyone else.”



















Dr. Fauci: Any PCR-positive with a CT over 35 is "just dead nucleotides, PERIOD." - TWiV # 641
ALSO Dr. Fauci: Let's keep testing everyone with the PCR-positive cutoff at 40 CT, guaranteeing massive false-positives

But according to Reliance..it’s just the opposite

Herp Derp

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639529383]This is why I try not to respond to you. You literally have no idea what is going on in the real world.

“WHO Finally Admits COVID-19 PCR Test Has a ‘Problem”

[url]https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/who-admits-covid-pcr-test-has-a-problem/[/url]

“The thing is, the more cycles that a test goes through, the more likely that a false positive will come up — anything over 30 cycles actually magnifies the samples so much that even insignificant sequences of viral DNA end up being magnified to the point that the test reads positive even if your viral load is extremely low or the virus is inactive and poses no threat to you or anyone else.”



















Dr. Fauci: Any PCR-positive with a CT over 35 is "just dead nucleotides, PERIOD." - TWiV # 641
ALSO Dr. Fauci: Let's keep testing everyone with the PCR-positive cutoff at 40 CT, guaranteeing massive false-positives[/QUOTE]

So again, you can’t explain anything in your own words. Ever. You copy and paste copy and paste. See a headline or title that looks like it fits the narrative... Copy and paste.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1639529493]So again, you can’t explain anything in your own words. Ever. You copy and paste copy and paste. See a headline or title that looks like it fits my narrative... Copy and paste.[/QUOTE]

So again, you are proved wrong..by my copy & paste..
Thanks for playing

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639529543]So again, you are proved wrong..by my copy & paste..
Thanks for playing[/QUOTE]

I can only correct your misunderstandings so many times.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1639529573]I can only correct your misunderstandings so many times.[/QUOTE]

Cool. Good like with that jab

Edit-I guess you better write Faucci as well. Clearly he misunderstands the PCR test completely

Paul, at the end of the day you do your research and chose where to get your facts and perspective.
It's clear that your mindset/knowledge and JustTheDad's mindset/knowledge are from very different places. It's the old saying "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet" (originally from Kipling, that's the author of The Jungle Book, not the UK cake manufacturer :) )

I think you'll just have to agree to differ on this topic

Where is Pockets?

In the gym doing elevated hip hinges, stiff legged squats, shake weights, or somesuch
Maybe on a mission cross country to wrestle bears and he's away from cell phone signal
Will we ever know?

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1639535123]Paul, at the end of the day you do your research and chose where to get your facts and perspective.
It's clear that your mindset/knowledge and JustTheDad's mindset/knowledge are from very different places. It's the old saying "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet" (originally from Kipling, that's the author of The Jungle Book, not the UK cake manufacturer :) )

I think you'll just have to agree to differ on this topic[/QUOTE]

I understand, & agree, I realize no one is really going to change their opinion around here. I think however what we can see with our own eyes should give us a good indication of what is going on. The constant backpedaling of the CDC, Faucci, & our elected officials. Again, I’ve never heard of an asymptomatic Pandemic. When someone is sick, they are not asymptomatic..meaning without symptoms. A Pandemic has people dying in the streets..or at the very least, showing symptoms. August of last year @ the height of lockdowns we drove to Idaho, & then made our way up to Sturgis..never once did I see anyone showing a hint of being sick. Every small town we went to, I would ask, “so with so many tourists coming in & out, has there been an increase in Covid cases?”every one of them from Neveda to South Dakota couldn’t help but laugh or smile, & say that they haven’t seen Covid at all. Sturgis was packed, not a mask seen in sight. I asked the hotel front desk employees if they had people getting sick from Covid..they smiled & said, “there is no Covid in SD.” I didn’t see so much as a cough more than a couple times in a row, a runny nose, a sneeze attack..nothing. One night at a bar in Deadwood, I was talking with a group of bikers (should have brought my bike..but it’s a long ride from Cali) that said a couple riders had died earlier in the week in a crash & the hospital was trying to label them as a Covid death..the families were outraged.
In a Pandemic we don’t have elected officials breaking their own rules, having dinner parties at restaurants that are supposed to be closed. In a Pandemic we don’t have elected officials getting their hair done while the salon is supposed to be closed under their orders, & we don’t have them traveling on plane state to state as they tell their constituents to avoid travel for the holidays, but it’s different when they do it. In a Pandemic we don’t have nurses & doctors in hospitals across the US posting TikTok dance videos while supposedly they are “overflowing” with Covid patients. In a Pandemic we wouldn’t need to be persuaded with a bunch of free chit just to get back to “normal”.

[QUOTE=Reliance012;1639529573]I can only correct your misunderstandings so many times.[/QUOTE]

[img]https://i.imgflip.com/lu6s4.jpg[/img]

Your response made me think of this, but it's honestly inconceivable to me that Paul doesn't understand. It's like denying you didn't win the lottery after the numbers are drawn because someone on YouTube said a 1 in 300 million chance is a sure thing "eventually".


On a more interesting topic, did Mullis have HIV? I understand how much resentment he had against Cetus since they gave him something like a 10k bonus and sold the idea for 300million or so, and I understand why he hated Fauci for being right on the HIV argument (even though Fauci wasn't the reason he lost his credibility). Thing is, in that video Paul linked to, Mullis said only about a million of "us" have HIV. He didn't say only a million people have HIV. The wording is interesting and he died of pneumonia fairly young. Given all the drugs he did, the affairs, and his denial of it being the cause of AIDS, it wouldn't surprise me if he was HIV+, but I never actually saw anything saying he had contracted it.

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1639543813]In the gym doing elevated hip hinges, stiff legged squats, shake weights, or somesuch
Maybe on a mission cross country to wrestle bears and he's away from cell phone signal
Will we ever know?[/QUOTE]

My favorite post of the thread and I can't offer any reps on it.

[QUOTE=LWW;1639511643]I didn't come on here and just rant like a guy angry at the world, I replied and called out your nonsense because you missed that people were allowed out in the streets for months protesting, yet a person trying to earn a living could not, and yeah THAT FUKING pissing me off.......................................

Also you can't even see what was going on in housing projects during covid, I'm sure they weren't sitting around bunkered-in, sipping tea.......[/QUOTE]

What exactly was my nonsense? I believe my original point you replied to is that shutdowns are what prevented the navy med shipped from being needed.

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639522173]Btw, I never once said people with Covid should have been in trials..maybe go back & re-read the posts..maybe you can figure it out this time.I have faith in you.[/QUOTE]

You acted as if it was some conspiracy theory that they weren't.

Doni really need to go back and quote what you said? That is how far "conversation" with you has devolved?

"The Sturgis rally certainly could have led to a surge in Covid-19 coronaviruses cases. But how much of a surge is still unclear."

A quick Google search shows that AFTER Sturgis........ the cases jumped, not before.
This search took 1 sec. :)

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1639543813]In the gym doing elevated hip hinges, stiff legged squats, shake weights, or somesuch
Maybe on a mission cross country to wrestle bears and he's away from cell phone signal
Will we ever know?[/QUOTE]

Stiff legged squats, LOL, now that is gold!!!

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639545063]"

A quick Google search shows that AFTER Sturgis........ the cases jumped, not before.
This search took 1 sec. :)[/QUOTE]

Google also manipulates results, the horror of IT is it’s still human written algorithms that can be swayed to one side.

I find interesting that no busy Drs even have time to write information on the Internet, because they are busy actually treating. Better be careful getting all your info from Internet.

At the end of the day, what does any of this matter? Get your vaccine or don't. The government isn't mandating them; they can't as it's Unconstitutional. Hell, the MMR isn't even mandated; kids can still go to school in most states without that vaccination even with measles outbreaks. Some industries and businesses will require employees to get the vaccine and it's their choice to stay employed with them or not.

[QUOTE=LWW;1639545653]Google also manipulates results, the horror of IT is it’s still human written algorithms that can be swayed to one side.

I find interesting that no busy Drs even have time to write information on the Internet, because they are busy actually treating. Better be careful getting all your info from Internet.[/QUOTE]

Google finds the articles,but we open them and decide which sources are more reliable and which are not. I looked at 4 and decided which of the 4 to quote. Notice the unbiased approach to the conclusion.
Some of the articles concluded that is was a superspreader event because of the number of people and the cdc tracing.