Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=lotusdeva;1645856543]My reply was to his post actually, not sure why your reply was included. My bet.[/QUOTE]

I just had a system glitch that was weird and I hope I didn't accidentally neg one of your posts. Will feel terrible if I did because I was trying to agree with it.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1645855813]I simply stated that what CommitmentRulz wrote in quote that I provided was some "Cold Hard Facts" and they were... Even Stevie Wonder can see that.
[/QUOTE]

Regardless of whether she replied to CR or you, she made a good point. We really don't know who has superior immunity when we simply talk about the people who had 2 shots vs one infection. It's important to remember that some of those people in the infection group had the wild type virus over a year ago, and some have recently had an infection with delta. There's clearly going to be a difference between their immunity to the currently circulating strains.

EDIT:
LotusDiva just confirmed I somehow gave negative feedback on one of her posts. I am really sorry. I can't reverse it, but am feeling bad now. Would appreciate help fixing it. That post on a previous page didn't deserve negative feedback!

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1645857533]I just had a system glitch that was weird and I hope I didn't accidentally neg one of your posts. Will feel terrible if I did because I was trying to agree with it.



Regardless of whether she replied to CR or you, she made a good point. We really don't know who has superior immunity when we simply talk about the people who had 2 shots vs one infection. It's important to remember that some of those people in the infection group had the wild type virus over a year ago, and some have recently had an infection with delta. There's clearly going to be a difference between their immunity to the currently circulating strains.

EDIT:
LotusDiva just confirmed I somehow gave negative feedback on one of her posts. I am really sorry. I can't reverse it, but am feeling bad now. Would appreciate help fixing it. That post on a previous page didn't deserve negative feedback![/QUOTE]

I added some reputation to her to offset the mistake.

Biden says US weighing COVID-19 vaccine boosters five months after second dose

[QUOTE=mgftp;1645858453]I added some reputation to her to offset the mistake.[/QUOTE]
Appreciate that.

mtpockets,
Wouldn't it be nice if biden and all the other politicians would STFU on what recommendations are being "considered", and if the news outlets could stop asking about it. Also, who is the "US"?
I'll bet the "US" is also weighing recommending them at 6 months, 8 months, odd Thursdays in in our birthday months, and whenever Pfizer, J&J, or Moderna's stocks dip.

I think they're just trying to annoy us or distract us from something more important!

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1645857533]

Regardless of whether she replied to CR or you, she made a good point. We really don't know who has superior immunity when we simply talk about the people who had 2 shots vs one infection. It's important to remember that some of those people in the infection group had the wild type virus over a year ago, and some have recently had an infection with delta. There's clearly going to be a difference between their immunity to the currently circulating strains.

EDIT:
LotusDiva just confirmed I somehow gave negative feedback on one of her posts. I am really sorry. I can't reverse it, but am feeling bad now. Would appreciate help fixing it. That post on a previous page didn't deserve negative feedback![/QUOTE]

I would think for many of us who are out in the world, around a lot of different people regularly, we have been exposed to the pathogen repeatedly. This is like little “boosters” on the regular for natural immunity. Pathogen comes in, begins infecting some cells but not enough to result in symptoms, immune system responds and attacks the infected cells and free virus particles? Immune doesn’t necessarily mean free from exposure and and infection at the cellular level, but likely a sufficient response that replication isn’t occurring at a level to allow viral shedding and becoming contagious. At least from what I can recall from immunology about 20 years ago (guessing there has been some new info since then). But “immune” does not mean you can’t be reinfected at a cellular level, it’s just “handled” before there is enough systemic damage from the virus to result in symptoms. I also wonder how accurate “asymptomatic” spreading is versus pre-symtomatic. It would seem that if you have enough viral replication going on to transmit disease, you would also be on the way to enough disruption in terms of cellular lysis local and systemic immune response (inflammation etc) to be having symptoms soon after.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/YfXBFOv.jpg[/img]

OKYO, Aug 28 (Reuters) - Two people died after receiving Moderna Inc (MRNA.O) COVID-19 vaccine shots that were among lots later suspended following the discovery of contaminants, Japan's health ministry said on Saturday.

You know since this thing started i wondered 2 things.
1. What natural strategies could be done to lessen the effects of a Covid positive experience?
2. Those with "super immunity" have what characteristics in common that we can learn something from?
Still waiting on and trying to research the answers.

I asked my seafood guy how his Covid positive experience was, and he said for he and his wife nothing happened. But for his 12 year old son it was bad. I thik he is in mid mid 50's, normal weight, red hair and nothing special. I dont get it.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1645894553]OKYO, Aug 28 (Reuters) - Two people died after receiving Moderna Inc (MRNA.O) COVID-19 vaccine shots that were among lots later suspended following the discovery of contaminants, Japan's health ministry said on Saturday.[/QUOTE]

A thread on this was in the misc, metal particulates..... so all 3 million doses were trashed.

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645898493]You know since this thing started i wondered 2 things.
1. What natural strategies could be done to lessen the effects of a Covid positive experience?
2. Those with "super immunity" have what characteristics in common that we can learn something from?
Still waiting on and trying to research the answers.

I asked my seafood guy how his Covid positive experience was, and he said for he and his wife nothing happened. But for his 12 year old son it was bad. I thik he is in mid mid 50's, [b]'normal weight'[/b], red hair and nothing special. I dont get it.[/QUOTE]

I think that 'normal weight' in the USA these days, might be special.

My wife is an RN at a hospital in Louisville. They've internally noted that currently 81% of all of their covid patients are unvaccinated, and 86% of those in the ICU are unvaccinated. It confirms to me that I was right in getting vaccinated but that I'm still capable (albeit less likely) to contract it and possibly even become very sick.

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645898493]You know since this thing started i wondered 2 things.
1. What natural strategies could be done to lessen the effects of a Covid positive experience?
2. Those with "super immunity" have what characteristics in common that we can learn something from?
Still waiting on and trying to research the answers.

I asked my seafood guy how his Covid positive experience was, and he said for he and his wife nothing happened. But for his 12 year old son it was bad. I thik he is in mid mid 50's, normal weight, red hair and nothing special. I dont get it.[/QUOTE]

I'm no immunologist and don't claim to have any special expertise in communicable diseases, but I think levels of exposure/viral load may have more to do with a persons outcome than any other variable.

I think my exposure to Covid-19 was very minimal as I had zero respiratory symptoms and I did not shed virus. All I had was extreme fatigue, body aches, severe headache and loss of smell and taste. But I could be wrong of course.

Family coming here from NH this coming week. They are all x2 dosed, and have to show negative crossing the border.

Nervous for all of us.

Only a handful of cases around here, apparently all in the unvaccinated

[QUOTE=supramax;1645898713]I think that 'normal weight' in the USA these days, might be special.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, are we talking 1950s Wally and the Beaver normal weight, or 2021 I work out weight? Are we still using those charts from medical school (height and weight)or bmi, or weightlifter weight?

[QUOTE=bustasinclair;1645899283]I'm no immunologist and don't claim to have any special expertise in communicable diseases, but I think levels of exposure/viral load may have more to do with a persons outcome than any other variable.

I think my exposure to Covid-19 was very minimal as I had zero respiratory symptoms and I did not shed virus. All I had was extreme fatigue, body aches, severe headache and loss of smell and taste. But I could be wrong of course.[/QUOTE]

So then repeated exposure, like going into a job with poor air quality would over time have an impact on your lungs and respiratory system. Makes sense.

[QUOTE=Cantplankwell;1645900293]Family coming here from NH this coming week. They are all x2 dosed, and have to show negative crossing the border.

Nervous for all of us.

Only a handful of cases around here, apparently all in the unvaccinated[/QUOTE]

Oh boy, let's guess how this story plays out.
Any predictions?

[QUOTE=Cantplankwell;1645900293]Family coming here from NH this coming week. They are all x2 dosed, and have to show negative crossing the border.

Nervous for all of us.

Only a handful of cases around here, apparently all in the unvaccinated[/QUOTE]

We now have state border crossing inspections?

[QUOTE=_zman;1645901263]We now have state border crossing inspections?[/QUOTE]

Canada is not a US state. Its an entirely different, independent country.

[QUOTE=_zman;1645901263]We now have state border crossing inspections?[/QUOTE]

For a long time Canada was stricter than the US and just recently let the Toronto Blue Jay's return from playimg their games in a minor league stadium in Buffalo.

So now instead of just waving your CDC card it looks like Canada now requires a negative test result close to the date of travel for entry into the country.

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645900953]So then repeated exposure, like going into a job with poor air quality would over time have an impact on your lungs and respiratory system. Makes sense.[/QUOTE]

No it’s not like a chemical exposure that would have a dose/time type relationship, at least for repeated exposure that would lead to chronic lung damage p. If viable virus particles enter your body and are able to make it to cells that they can infect, they begin replication and increasing in numbers, those progeny go on to infect other nearby cells etc. The initial dose may have some influence for someone w/out immunity because lower level exposure might give your body longer initially to begin mounting a defense rather than having a large initial exposure which could have larger numbers of cells infected and larger viral loads generated sooner. I’m not sure how much it would matter though, once infected it’s billions of progeny in your body. Disease severity probably comes down to a variety things genetic and physiological (age, health etc).

There is a minimum infective dose for some organisms but I don’t think it’s a hard “rule”. Ecoli bacteria o157/h7 (shiga toxin type that can cause organ failure) for example, 9 organisms was considered to be an “infective dose” IIRC.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1645902903]No it’s not a chemical exposure that would have a dose/time type relationship. If viable virus particles enter your body and are able to make it to cells that they can infect, they begin replication and increasing in numbers, those progeny go on to infect other nearby cells etc. The initial dose may have some influence for someone w/out immunity because lower level exposure might give your body longer initially to begin mounting a defense rather than having a large initial exposure which could have larger numbers of cells infected and larger viral loads generated sooner. I’m not sure how much it would matter though, once infected it’s billions of progeny in your body. Disease severity probably comes down to a variety things genetic and physiological (age, health etc).[/QUOTE]

Great explanation thanks.
So what would a large initial exposure look like.? Can you give an example or situation for clarity?

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645903203]Great explanation thanks.
So what would a large initial expose look like.? Can you give an example or situation for clarity?[/QUOTE]

A large exposure could be really mundane ie walking into an elevator car that someone infectious was just coughing in. Doesn’t mean getting sneezed on, just inhaling a lot of viable virus that are able to make it to cells they can infect. Our respiratory tract is actually very effective at keeping pathogens out of our lungs overall. Lots of cilia (hairlike protrusions) that trap things biological or otherwise (dust, smoke etc) and they kind of “do the wave” and move these foreign bodies back up the respiratory tract away from the lungs. Parastalsis I think it’s called, could be wrong been a long time lol.

[QUOTE=bustasinclair;1645899283]I'm no immunologist and don't claim to have any special expertise in communicable diseases, but I think levels of exposure/viral load may have more to do with a persons outcome than any other variable.

I think my exposure to Covid-19 was very minimal as I had zero respiratory symptoms and I did not shed virus. All I had was extreme fatigue, body aches, severe headache and loss of smell and taste. But I could be wrong of course.[/QUOTE]

Disease severity can be influenced by the initial dose of the pathogen in the inoculum. Animal models have demonstrated this for a wide array of pathogens. The route of transmission is also important.

For sarscov2, this is probably true as well. It’s hard to test this in humans for obvious reasons. This article goes over some of the evidence that we do have.

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7686757/[/url]

Another reasons why masks are important. They disproportionately filter larger inoculum volumes.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/7FlYPJ0.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=bustasinclair;1645899283]I'm no immunologist and don't claim to have any special expertise in communicable diseases, but I think levels of exposure/viral load may have more to do with a persons outcome than any other variable.

I think my exposure to Covid-19 was very minimal as I had zero respiratory symptoms and I did not shed virus. All I had was extreme fatigue, body aches, severe headache and loss of smell and taste. But I could be wrong of course.[/QUOTE]

“All you had”?

Dear sir you had almost all the symptoms of getting the rona. :-/

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645900663]Yeah, are we talking 1950s Wally and the Beaver normal weight, or 2021 I work out weight? Are we still using those charts from medical school (height and weight)or bmi, or weightlifter weight?[/QUOTE]
BMI. Certainly not 'majority' normal with 70% overweight. :)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/EqfF2ce.png[/img]

[QUOTE=supramax;1645917863]BMI. Certainly not 'majority' normal with 70% overweight. :)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/EqfF2ce.png[/img][/QUOTE]


BMI isn't accurate for all, especially someone with a lot of muscle mass. I was constantly flagged as being overweight according to the chart. The calipers told a totally different story

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1645918383]BMI isn't accurate for all, especially someone with a lot of muscle mass. I was constantly flagged as being overweight according to the chart. The calipers told a totally different story[/QUOTE]

For sure! Obese guy checking in at 30.5 (6'1" at 233#). Feels bad man

Ok just to be Devils advocate, lol, does Covid care if it is muscle or fat? :)

I too carry a ton of old muscle.

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645925663]Ok just to be Devils advocate, lol, does Covid care if it is muscle or fat? :)

I too carry a ton of old muscle.[/QUOTE]


Probably not but an obese person high on the BMI chart because of muscle is more likely to be healthier than a fattie who slams double cheeseburgers whose spare tire is responsible for the high BMI

So there is that