Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?
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Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651279353]Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?[/QUOTE]
Not in the kid business anymore, but I am curious if you guys had any side effects to the booster?
The moderna and other shot that are MRNA bother me, I have read too much negative $hit about them where i'm not willing to be a fukkin guinea pig. Wife and I got the J&J shot in march/april and been looking for the J&J booster....the government for some reason is really pushing this MRNA deal hard and heavy. Anyways we are getting the J&J booster tomorrow. I'm not typically a conspiracy nutjob but there is something going on when a government pushes one over the other and then wants the records sealed for 55 years.
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651279353]Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?[/QUOTE]
Absolutely not getting my kids (10 & 8) vaccinated for covid. I’m the only one vaccinated in my family and that was for work. If the public schools mandate it, I’ll send them to private or pay for a private teacher.
[QUOTE=Corbi;1651279863]The moderna and other shot that are MRNA bother me, I have read too much negative $hit about them where i'm not willing to be a fukkin guinea pig. Wife and I got the J&J shot in march/april and been looking for the J&J booster....the government for some reason is really pushing this MRNA deal hard and heavy. Anyways we are getting the J&J booster tomorrow. I'm not typically a conspiracy nutjob but there is something going on when a government pushes one over the other and then wants the records sealed for 55 years.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t know they’re pushing one over the other - and which records are being sealed for 55!years? Srs pls aware me.
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1651279533]Not in the kid business anymore, but I am curious if you guys had any side effects to the booster?[/QUOTE]
I felt like shti for a day or so and my arm was really sore. So much so it was waking me up at night. Lasted about 3 days. Wife had nothing.
@Tim. Figured that was where you were at. Mandates don't look like they will happen here but ya never know. Im trying to convince my wife not to get them vaxxed as the science is clear they arent in any danger.
[QUOTE=TryingBB;1651281903]I didn’t know they’re pushing one over the other - and which records are being sealed for 55!years? Srs pls aware me.[/QUOTE]
this: [url]https://ntdca.com/fda-asks-court-for-55-years-to-fully-release-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-data/[/url]
"The FDA’s request was made in a filing as part of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit by a medical transparency group. The government told the court it has 329,000 pages of documents responsive to the FOIA request and proposed releasing 500 pages per month to allow for redactions of exempt material. At that rate, the FDA would fully release the records in question in just under 55 years"
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651284473]I felt like shti for a day or so and my arm was really sore. So much so it was waking me up at night. Lasted about 3 days. Wife had nothing.
@Tim. Figured that was where you were at. Mandates don't look like they will happen here but ya never know. Im trying to convince my wife not to get them vaxxed as the science is clear they arent in any danger.[/QUOTE]
The risk to benefit ratio does not support vaccinating kids. Hell it doesn’t support vaccinating many adults either. If you don’t think they’ll try to mandate it for kids you should take a look at where we’ve gone in less than a year. The former head of the FDA who is now the head of Pfizer is saying that he believes soon adults won’t be considered fully vaccinated until they get their booster(s). Look at the weaponization of OSHA to attempt a back door mandate for adults. This administration is a joke when it comes to the oath taken.
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651279353]Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?[/QUOTE]My 19 and 14 y/o daughters are both fully vaccinated and neither had any major issues. My oldest contracted covid before vaccines were available and it scared the hell out of us. She was feverish for a week, couldn't smell or taste anything and had a pretty awful cough. She still doesn't have her smell and taste back 100%.
For me, I'll deal with any uncomfortable side-effects in order to avoid anyone in my home becoming hospitalized or worse due to covid. I have a high school friend, unvaccinated, in the ICU right now and she's not responding to treatment. She appears to be a healthy person (42 y/o) and is now willing to get vaccinated when she gets the opportunity. I just pray she gets the opportunity.
[QUOTE=Jbizzlechizzle;1651298193]My 19 and 14 y/o daughters are both fully vaccinated and neither had any major issues. My oldest contracted covid before vaccines were available and it scared the hell out of us. She was feverish for a week, couldn't smell or taste anything and had a pretty awful cough. She still doesn't have her smell and taste back 100%.
For me, I'll deal with any uncomfortable side-effects in order to avoid anyone in my home becoming hospitalized or worse due to covid. I have a high school friend, unvaccinated, in the ICU right now and she's not responding to treatment. She appears to be a healthy person (42 y/o) and is now willing to get vaccinated when she gets the opportunity. I just pray she gets the opportunity.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, J. I've had some people in my universe really get kicked in the teeth with this virus but no kids that I'm aware of. Real sorry about your friend and I hope she pulls through.
I'm of the same mind when it comes to my own vax - I'll assume the risk if that means I don't infect someone else. I'm in real close quarters with many people weekly with BJJ and we have some who aren't vaxxed rolling with us. I've been personally exposed by individuals who tested positive and for some reason I have yet to come down w/it.
My kids being younger and in no danger from what the numbers tell us have me leaning towards no vaxx for them unless the data changes. They do get their flu shot yearly though so I realize I'm being a hypocrite here but my gut tells me to wait.
[QUOTE=Jbizzlechizzle;1651298193]My 19 and 14 y/o daughters are both fully vaccinated and neither had any major issues. My oldest contracted covid before vaccines were available and it scared the hell out of us. She was feverish for a week, couldn't smell or taste anything and had a pretty awful cough. She still doesn't have her smell and taste back 100%.
For me, I'll deal with any uncomfortable side-effects in order to avoid anyone in my home becoming hospitalized or worse due to covid. I have a high school friend, unvaccinated, in the ICU right now and she's not responding to treatment. She appears to be a healthy person (42 y/o) and is now willing to get vaccinated when she gets the opportunity. I just pray she gets the opportunity.[/QUOTE]
Fully vaccinated LOL
Gets me every time.
When it started Vaccinations weren't even a thing and now look at us, 12 months later and people getting boosters. Found a very fitting meme
[img]https://i.imgur.com/JlmmGD4.jpg?1[/img]
[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/push-vaccinate-children-accelerates-pediatric-covid-19-cases/story%3fid=81334123[/url]
Clown world in full effect.
The vaxxed represent the weakest of us and now they're vaccinating their kids and spreading the virus.
[QUOTE=Corbi;1651279863]The moderna and other shot that are MRNA bother me, I have read too much negative $hit about them where i'm not willing to be a fukkin guinea pig. Wife and I got the J&J shot in march/april and been looking for the J&J booster....the government for some reason is really pushing this MRNA deal hard and heavy. Anyways we are getting the J&J booster tomorrow. I'm not typically a conspiracy nutjob but there is something going on when a government pushes one over the other and then wants the records sealed for 55 years.[/QUOTE]
I find this interesting because the sentiment is so widespread. Given the choice, I'll take the mRNA vaccine over the J&J version any day. There's less to it. Pretty much everything that could cause problems for you in the mRNA version is also in the J&J version, but not the other way around. They're all coding for the same spike protein. The mRNA vaccines sneak some mRNA through your cell wall by wrapping it in fat. The J&J virus embeds the same genetic sequence in a virus which infects your cells and causes the nucleus of your cells to produce the mRNA. With the J&J vaccine, you get the adeno virus too, but it's pretty safe. May cause some coagulopathy and viral symptoms.
If you're going to have a bad side effect from the mRNA vaccines, you'd likely have the same pathology from the J&J virus and the alpha strain of the virus. The spike protein in the alpha strain is actually a little more problematic for most people, although the major epitopes are theoretically the same. Same protein sequence, but when you change the other parts, it could affect the epitope conformation too.
I believe the vaccine version of the spike protein can't undergo the conformational change that is necessary for the viral spike protein to bind to some targets. So basically, you get a little of an attenuated spike protein with a tiny bit a lipids, a little of an attenuated spike protein plus a mild viral infection, or you get a lot of an unattenuated spike protein plus the nucleocapsid and other proteins in COVID 19.
I'm not planning to get a booster since I think there will be delta specific vaccines early next year, but if I were unvaccinated and had a negative Ab titer, I'd want Moderna, then Pfizer, then J&J followed by an mRNA booster, and my last choice would be the actual virus. I got Pfizer x2, and I'm pretty comfortable at this point.
Oh, and the reason I'd want an mRNA booster after one J&J shot is because you get some immunity to the carrier virus as well as to the spike protein if you get the J&J shot, so your body will attack the vaccine carrier if you get a second shot of J&J. Sputnik is a cool vaccine in that the second shot uses a different carrier vaccine to avoid that. Very clever!
Everyone in my family is now vaccinated, minus my second cousin who refused it and then died from COVID. I have no concerns and suspect any cardiac markers that bumped post vaccination have already returned to normal since I'm 6 months out. Will find out after my physical in a week if anything shows high :)
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651356563]I find this interesting because the sentiment is so widespread. Given the choice, I'll take the mRNA vaccine over the J&J version any day. There's less to it. Pretty much everything that could cause problems for you in the mRNA version is also in the J&J version, but not the other way around. They're all coding for the same spike protein. The mRNA vaccines sneak some mRNA through your cell wall by wrapping it in fat. The J&J virus embeds the same genetic sequence in a virus which infects your cells and causes the nucleus of your cells to produce the mRNA. With the J&J vaccine, you get the adeno virus too, but it's pretty safe. May cause some coagulopathy and viral symptoms.
If you're going to have a bad side effect from the mRNA vaccines, you'd likely have the same pathology from the J&J virus and the alpha strain of the virus. The spike protein in the alpha strain is actually a little more problematic for most people, although the major epitopes are theoretically the same. Same protein sequence, but when you change the other parts, it could affect the epitope conformation too.
I believe the vaccine version of the spike protein can't undergo the conformational change that is necessary for the viral spike protein to bind to some targets. So basically, you get a little of an attenuated spike protein with a tiny bit a lipids, a little of an attenuated spike protein plus a mild viral infection, or you get a lot of an unattenuated spike protein plus the nucleocapsid and other proteins in COVID 19.
[B]I'm not planning to get a booster[/b] since I think there will be delta specific vaccines early next year, but if I were unvaccinated and had a negative Ab titer, I'd want Moderna, then Pfizer, then J&J followed by an mRNA booster, and my last choice would be the actual virus. I got Pfizer x2, and I'm pretty comfortable at this point.
Oh, and the reason I'd want an mRNA booster after one J&J shot is because you get some immunity to the carrier virus as well as to the spike protein if you get the J&J shot, so your body will attack the vaccine carrier if you get a second shot of J&J. Sputnik is a cool vaccine in that the second shot uses a different carrier vaccine to avoid that. Very clever!
Everyone in my family is now vaccinated, minus my second cousin who refused it and then died from COVID. I have no concerns and suspect any cardiac markers that bumped post vaccination have already returned to normal since I'm 6 months out. Will find out after my physical in a week if anything shows high :)[/QUOTE]
Interesting. You think potential harm outweighed potential benefit though?
If you got boosted now, I'd assume you could get this delta booster in 6 months if such a thing becomes available.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1651357493]Interesting. You think potential harm outweighed potential benefit though?
If you got boosted now, I'd assume you could get this delta booster in 6 months if such a thing becomes available.[/QUOTE]
I think that at some point, your risk of side effects is likely to increase, and while I have no real evidence that 3 shots or 4 shots is the point where the risks outweigh the benefits, I also don't think the benefit is enough to let me make a strong case for booster shots to the alpha strain in people who are generally healthy and in their 50's. It gets even harder the younger the cohort.
If I got a booster shot, I think I'd have very little motivation to get a 4th shot, even if it was delta specific, because I'd consider myself well protected for several years. Also, it wouldn't do a lot to protect my parents from me 8 or 12 months in the future. Maybe it decreases the time I can carry and spread the virus 50% for a few months, and then 10% or 20% after that. Worth it to someone who works in an office or has elderly family members they see a lot, not worth it for me. A delta specific or "polyvalent" booster might have a really big effect on my ability to spread the virus, and it should provide even more protection, so I figure I'll wait for that. Hopefully it won't have a worse risk profile!
[QUOTE=BK909;1651338683][url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/push-vaccinate-children-accelerates-pediatric-covid-19-cases/story%3fid=81334123[/url]
Clown world in full effect.
The vaxxed represent the weakest of us and now they're vaccinating their kids and spreading the virus.[/QUOTE]
[url=https://imgbb.com/][img]https://i.ibb.co/X4XFtZj/source.gif[/img][/url]
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651358793]I think that at some point, your risk of side effects is likely to increase, and while I have no real evidence that 3 shots or 4 shots is the point where the risks outweigh the benefits, I also don't think the benefit is enough to let me make a strong case for booster shots to the alpha strain in people who are generally healthy and in their 50's. It gets even harder the younger the cohort.
If I got a booster shot, I think I'd have very little motivation to get a 4th shot, even if it was delta specific, because I'd consider myself well protected for several years. Also, it wouldn't do a lot to protect my parents from me 8 or 12 months in the future. Maybe it decreases the time I can carry and spread the virus 50% for a few months, and then 10% or 20% after that. Worth it to someone who works in an office or has elderly family members they see a lot, not worth it for me. A delta specific or "polyvalent" booster might have a really big effect on my ability to spread the virus, and it should provide even more protection, so I figure I'll wait for that. Hopefully it won't have a worse risk profile![/QUOTE]
I guess my real curiosity lies in how many antibodies do I have right now.
I have a. Sister-in-law that had been vaxxed and had Covid twice and just test with no antibodies 6 months out from her last Covid infection. I am just like wtfman?
[QUOTE=mgftp;1651359593]I guess my real curiosity lies in how many antibodies do I have right now.
I have a. Sister-in-law that had been vaxxed and had Covid twice and just test with no antibodies 6 months out from her last Covid infection. I am just like wtfman?[/QUOTE]
I don't know what to make of that. Either her immune system didn't respond by producing a lot of Ab or somebody screwed up a test (or 2). Given you probably share quite of few genes, it would be interesting to see if you have measurable antibodies, but I'm not sure it would tell us much. How did your sister do when she got infected? Mild cases, or did it knock her on her @$$? That could factor into your decision on a booster shot.
Also, since her story is a bit of an outlier, what vaccine did she get, when, and when did she test + for COVID?
Edit. Missed "in-law". Abort/delete/ignore ;) won't affect your decisions at all. Still curious as to which vaccine and the timing of this. Curious about age/race/health status too, but that's too personal, so I'll stick to asking about timing.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1651359593]I guess my real curiosity lies in how many antibodies do I have right now.
I have a. Sister-in-law that had been vaxxed and had Covid twice and just test with no antibodies 6 months out from her last Covid infection. I am just like wtfman?[/QUOTE]
That's nuts...
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651360063]I don't know what to make of that. Either her immune system didn't respond by producing a lot of Ab or somebody screwed up a test (or 2). Given you probably share quite of few genes, it would be interesting to see if you have measurable antibodies, but I'm not sure it would tell us much. How did your sister do when she got infected? Mild cases, or did it knock her on her @$$? That could factor into your decision on a booster shot.
Also, since her story is a bit of an outlier, what vaccine did she get, when, and when did she test + for COVID?
Edit. Missed "in-law". Abort/delete/ignore ;) won't affect your decisions at all. Still curious as to which vaccine and the timing of this. Curious about age/race/health status too, but that's too personal, so I'll stick to asking about timing.[/QUOTE]
Sister-in-law, so we share no genes. LoL
She was pretty bad both times, worse the 2nd time, assume it was Delta. No hospitalization though, just really sick for 2+ weeks. I am healthier than her and would like to think I do better. But I guess when I think booster I just think to if I got Covid would I be all sick thinking damn I should;be got that booster.
I can't really offer you much advice on that.
OK to ask when you got vaccinated, with what, and how old you are?
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651361963]I can't really offer you much advice on that.
OK to ask when you got vaccinated, with what, and how old you are?[/QUOTE]
Double Pfizer, 2nd shot in May, 40 years old, no Volvo.
Guess the best thing in my mind is the get antibodies tested to help make a decision although I don't think risk in either direction produces a bad choice.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1651362353]Double Pfizer, 2nd shot in May, 40 years old, no Volvo.
Guess the best thing in my mind is the get antibodies tested to help make a decision although I don't think risk in either direction produces a bad choice.[/QUOTE]
You just barely make the timeline for a booster since you're 6 months out, you're only 40, so your immune response to the vaccine is likely higher than mine at 53, and you're healthy.
I'm sure a booster will decrease your chances of having a symptomatic infection. That's just logic. I'm not sure it offers you a significant decrease in your mortality risk. Based on this:
[url]https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211105/covid-vaccine-protection-drops-study[/url]
my quick read says if you had a 98% reduction two weeks after your second shot, you are still looking at better than 84% reduction at 3 months. That's for under 65, and less than half of the under 65 cohort was under 40. Looks like 55% were 50-65, and 45% were under 50.
I just explained this to someone as the vaccine giving you antibodies to a Cattleman style cowboy hat, and the delta variant wearing a Montana style. Your Cattleman antibodies will stick to the delta variant's Montana hat and slow it down, but you won't start cranking out lots of Ab and T cells to the delta variant as quickly as you would if it wore the original's Cattleman crease hat. It's still really good if you already have antibodies around, but once your Ab levels drop, your anamnestic response to the delta variant is slower and less effective, so yeah, you're less protected.
Still, it's better than nothing! If you are worried, I don't want to discourage you from getting a booster shot. Like I said, if I worked in an office or was around at risk people, I'd get it. But I'm home based and am comfortable waiting a couple more months to see what happens.
Edit:
This is kind of cool: [url]https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator[/url]
Realize it used the mortality data from a group of patients who tested positive Pre 2021. It doesn't count patients who were asymptomatic and not tested, and it doesn't account for treatment options that weren't available before 2021. But if you take your risks and multiply them by .5 or .6 since you are vaccinated, that's likely around your worst case numbers. (I'm assuming the economist used valid data, but I'm not endorsing their calculator.)
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651284473]I felt like shti for a day or so and my arm was really sore. So much so it was waking me up at night. Lasted about 3 days. Wife had nothing.
@Tim. Figured that was where you were at. Mandates don't look like they will happen here but ya never know. Im trying to convince my wife not to get them vaxxed as the science is clear they arent in any danger.[/QUOTE]
So let's be "clear". We don't actually know the long term risks of catching the virus as opposed to just getting the vaccine. A history of having had the EBV virus correlates with your risk of getting MS, the COVID virus clearly can lead to cardiac, vascular, or pulmonary issues in the short term, so saying there isn't a long term risk from it that exceeds that of the vaccine is premature by a decade or 3.
We have to assume they're going to get exposed to the virus one way or the other. If they've had the vaccine, they'll get less exposure to the viral antigens not included in the vaccines, so it comes down to relative risk. Do you expose them to one protein intentionally, and decrease their exposure to the viral proteins when they do get exposed, or do you just wait for them to get exposed to the virus and have more exposure to both that protein and all the others that come with it.
I do agree, we don't see a lot of risk for kids short term, and hopefully we won't see any long term, but no matter how you look at it, the mRNA vaccines are lower risk than the actual virus. Of course, it's still an alpha vaccine, and we're more concerned about delta, so you have to take a lot into consideration here.
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651368333]So let's be "clear". We don't actually know the long term risks of catching the virus as opposed to just getting the vaccine. A history of having had the EBV virus correlates with your risk of getting MS, the COVID virus clearly can lead to cardiac, vascular, or pulmonary issues in the short term, so saying there isn't a long term risk from it that exceeds that of the vaccine is premature by a decade or 3.
We have to assume they're going to get exposed to the virus one way or the other. If they've had the vaccine, they'll get less exposure to the viral antigens not included in the vaccines, so it comes down to relative risk. Do you expose them to one protein intentionally, and decrease their exposure to the viral proteins when they do get exposed, or do you just wait for them to get exposed to the virus and have more exposure to both that protein and all the others that come with it.
I do agree, we don't see a lot of risk for kids short term, and hopefully we won't see any long term, but no matter how you look at it, the mRNA vaccines are lower risk than the actual virus. Of course, it's still an alpha vaccine, and we're more concerned about delta, so you have to take a lot into consideration here.[/QUOTE]
We don’t know the long term effects of the virus or the vaccine. To say otherwise is dishonest. I guess we will know more about the long term effects of virus and vaccines in 55 years when the FDA releases the FOIA request info about the initial trials though…
Ima gonna wait for better booster then also. But then wouldn't I need a regular shot if I wait too long? I had my Jansen baby powder shot March. It's probably useless already.
[QUOTE=Cass40;1651373823]Ima gonna wait for better booster then also. But then wouldn't I need a regular shot if I wait too long? I had my Jansen baby powder shot March. It's probably useless already.[/QUOTE]
It’s not useless. It allows you to participate in life.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1651376033]It’s not useless. It allows you to participate in life.[/QUOTE]
For how long?
When has it's benefits gone 100%??
[QUOTE=Cass40;1651373823]Ima gonna wait for better booster then also. But then wouldn't I need a regular shot if I wait too long? I had my Jansen baby powder shot March. It's probably useless already.[/QUOTE]
Didn't you get a booster shot recently Cass? I thought I saw you post something about it since your original vaccine was the J&J one.
If any of us who have had the alpha vaccines get another shot, no matter how many years in the future it is, it will be a booster. You could probably call it a booster shot if you had the alpha strain of the virus and then got a single dose of the current vaccine after that.
If the next version of the vaccine is purely a delta spike protein, it won't actually be a booster, but it will be close enough since there's some cross reactivity, and having received the alpha strain vaccine, one shot will probably be sufficient. If the next version is polyvalent, it will be a booster plus a vaccine to the delta strain, or delta and lambda.
PlateauPlower,
The FDA has data on the "long term side effects" as they're defined. Nobody has ever found a side effect that presented years down the line as we discussed a couple of months back. The long term risks from having the virus now isn't something we have data on, because they won't have shown up. Saying we know the risks are now would be dishonest, but to say that a small exposure to one antigen is likely to have more long term risk than a larger exposure to a nearly identical antigen, plus a large exposure to other viral antigens that we have seen correlate with auto-immunity mediated inflammation, like the nucleocapsid, would also be dishonest.
So yes, we don't know if the vaccine could affect our future risks of developing something bad, but we can say with a lot of confidence that the danger is a lot lower than the dangers of that happening from the actual virus. We can also say with some confidence that almost everybody will eventually get exposed to the virus, so in a sense, you get to choose your exposure levels. If we had a delta specific vaccine, it would be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, we don't, so the difference in the future risk levels could be closer between the vaccine and the virus. Closer, but the virus short and long term risks are still almost certainly higher.