Will you get vaccinated?

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1651182933]Yeah this part got to me...

"What happened next, she said, “was horrifying.” Six hours apart, she dropped each loved one off at the curb at the emergency room entrance. Because she was infected and in quarantine, she was barred from going in with them.

“That broke me,” she said.

It was the last time she saw them upright and conscious. “You don’t know if they are .......[/QUOTE]


Very sad indeed. I hate reading this stuff.

The vaccine is an effect tool in the covid fight, it's not the complete tool box but it is something of value. Unfortunately many naysayers are finding this out the hard way. Sad

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1651184013]Very sad indeed. I hate reading this stuff.

The vaccine is an effect tool in the covid fight, it's not the complete tool box but it is something of value. Unfortunately many naysayers are finding this out the hard way. Sad[/QUOTE]

Definitely no panacea. Uptake would be better if they were more honest. Lol at the FDA requesting 55 years to release the data used to make their decisions. The politicization and mandates hurt uptake, but not as much as the visible lack of efficacy and maniacal pushing of the vaccine without consideration for people’s personal health decisions.

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651168663]This is a sad story...2 in the house vaxxed, 2 who weren't died. Bad luck I guess.

[url]https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/11/upstate-ny-family-hit-by-covid-unvaccinated-father-son-die-days-apart-vaccinated-mom-son-recover.html[/url]



We can all have our opinions but for some this is their reality. This sucks and I feel for this woman and her family.[/QUOTE]


It's unfortunate that the 2 unvaxxed family members died from the virus but that was their choice to make and so be it. What is really sad in my opinion is that the 2 vaccinated family members weren't allowed to see them in the hospital. If the "vaccine" was actually a vaccine and worked like a typical vaccine by providing immunity maybe they would allow family in to see them off...

[QUOTE=Fishman15;1651189233]It's unfortunate that the 2 unvaxxed family members died from the virus but that was their choice to make and so be it. What is really sad in my opinion is that the 2 vaccinated family members weren't allowed to see them in the hospital. If the "vaccine" was actually a vaccine and worked like a typical vaccine by providing immunity maybe they would allow family in to see them off...[/QUOTE]Id like to see photos of these 2 people.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/hitLzNp.jpg?1[/img]

[QUOTE=Wayne Evans;1651046023]Howdy ACC....

I've had the (2) shots.....no issues and I wasn't concerned at all.

[B]No[/B]...I certainly would not endorse/support a mandate.
People are going to do what they want and the cards will fall where they may.

But....I'll throw this out.
My good friend of 45 years and business owner has a daughter (just shy of 30) who is very bright and in the medical field going to college in New York.
She's been there about 5 years or so as she continues on the medical field treadmill pursuing the ''research' path.
Her duties at this time are performing autopsies.
I just spoke with Bob a few days ago and she tells him, and I quote...."97% of Covid deaths were the unvaccinated."....hmmm.

So....if the above is accurate or even very close the thought that comes to my pea brain:
What is the exact percentage of normally (for lack of better words) healthy people that actually had truly adverse, debilitating reactions?
And....if that percentage is very small (say, 5%-7%) is it good logic deciding NOT get vaccinated using such a small sample?

Me...I don't know what to believe anymore nor do I pretend to know any more that anyone else here.
Nor do I don't keep up with all the angst or politics of it all....I'll let the rest of you take that baton. :)

I would never presume to tell anyone what they should, or shouldn't do,
I mind my own business, to each their own decisions and consequences.

But....I've been wrong in the past.
On that note....do carry on.[/QUOTE]Hey Wayne. I'm with you. I'm not sure what to believe because far too many people have been full of sh*t and everyone has a different authority to appeal to. Should I not listen to my woman who actually works on these vaccines? Why should I listen to your friends daughter and not my partner? Which is why you I are on the same side of the coin in aspects of minding our business keeping on with keeping on.

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651168663]This is a sad story...2 in the house vaxxed, 2 who weren't died. Bad luck I guess.

[url]https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/11/upstate-ny-family-hit-by-covid-unvaccinated-father-son-die-days-apart-vaccinated-mom-son-recover.html[/url]

We can all have our opinions but for some this is their reality. This sucks and I feel for this woman and her family.[/QUOTE]I'll be honest, I had a bit of a visceral reaction to the article. That piece 100% came across as a piece of propaganda and a wag of the finger. Here is a not so sad story of a woman who died from blood clots from the J&J vaccine.

[url]https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/washington/articles/2021-10-05/washington-woman-dies-from-rare-j-j-vaccine-complication[/url]

And even with all these complications.... the scary part is... they're done. These are the vaccines we get. They are no longer trying to improve them... but no worries just take it.


[QUOTE=Tommy W.;1651189663]Id like to see photos of these 2 people.[/QUOTE]Notice how they let you know about all the pre-existing conditions of the nameless thot that died from the J&J vaccine. What are the chances we can find the actual names of people dropping from heart attacks from Pfizer in the news cycle? Ya... don't wanna make THOSE stories too sad.

My guess is the 2 that passed from covid were blood type maple syrup. I hate the media so much. Legit frustrated.

I can't even imagine how ****ed up a kids thinking is gonna be (regarding government) growing up in a society that dictates the general public wear a mask or takes a vaccine to keep their job....

it's almost scary to think about where we're heading as a nation...

[QUOTE=Fishman15;1651189233]It's unfortunate that the 2 unvaxxed family members died from the virus but that was their choice to make and so be it. What is really sad in my opinion is that the 2 vaccinated family members weren't allowed to see them in the hospital. If the "vaccine" was actually a vaccine and worked like a typical vaccine by providing immunity maybe they would allow family in to see them off...[/QUOTE]

You're not wrong Fishy.

[QUOTE=acrawlingchaos;1651219673]
I'll be honest, I had a bit of a visceral reaction to the article. That piece 100% came across as a piece of propaganda and a wag of the finger. Here is a not so sad story of a woman who died from blood clots from the J&J vaccine.

[url]https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/washington/articles/2021-10-05/washington-woman-dies-from-rare-j-j-vaccine-complication[/url]

And even with all these complications.... the scary part is... they're done. These are the vaccines we get. They are no longer trying to improve them... but no worries just take it.
[/QUOTE]

I can see that, Jeff. Evidence to support anyone's views can be found or written in this case. It was surely slanted but I just was sad to read THIS story (which was passed on to me by someone as I generally avoid this topic).

However, 4 in the house caught C19, 2 vaxxed, 2 not and they died. Sure looks like a good case of the vaccine doing its job but what do I know - I'm not here playing Dr because I took HS chemistry :D

[QUOTE=Tommy W.;1651189663]Id like to see photos of these 2 people.[/QUOTE]



[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesunion.com/news/amp/COVID-does-the-unthinkable-Father-son-die-16632441.php[/url]

Dad looked like he was in ok shape and son looked like a soy boy, neck beard hybrid.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/mv26oVZ.jpg?1[/img]

Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651279353]Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?[/QUOTE]


Not in the kid business anymore, but I am curious if you guys had any side effects to the booster?

The moderna and other shot that are MRNA bother me, I have read too much negative $hit about them where i'm not willing to be a fukkin guinea pig. Wife and I got the J&J shot in march/april and been looking for the J&J booster....the government for some reason is really pushing this MRNA deal hard and heavy. Anyways we are getting the J&J booster tomorrow. I'm not typically a conspiracy nutjob but there is something going on when a government pushes one over the other and then wants the records sealed for 55 years.

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651279353]Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely not getting my kids (10 & 8) vaccinated for covid. I’m the only one vaccinated in my family and that was for work. If the public schools mandate it, I’ll send them to private or pay for a private teacher.

[QUOTE=Corbi;1651279863]The moderna and other shot that are MRNA bother me, I have read too much negative $hit about them where i'm not willing to be a fukkin guinea pig. Wife and I got the J&J shot in march/april and been looking for the J&J booster....the government for some reason is really pushing this MRNA deal hard and heavy. Anyways we are getting the J&J booster tomorrow. I'm not typically a conspiracy nutjob but there is something going on when a government pushes one over the other and then wants the records sealed for 55 years.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t know they’re pushing one over the other - and which records are being sealed for 55!years? Srs pls aware me.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1651279533]Not in the kid business anymore, but I am curious if you guys had any side effects to the booster?[/QUOTE]

I felt like shti for a day or so and my arm was really sore. So much so it was waking me up at night. Lasted about 3 days. Wife had nothing.

@Tim. Figured that was where you were at. Mandates don't look like they will happen here but ya never know. Im trying to convince my wife not to get them vaxxed as the science is clear they arent in any danger.

[QUOTE=TryingBB;1651281903]I didn’t know they’re pushing one over the other - and which records are being sealed for 55!years? Srs pls aware me.[/QUOTE]

this: [url]https://ntdca.com/fda-asks-court-for-55-years-to-fully-release-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-data/[/url]

"The FDA’s request was made in a filing as part of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit by a medical transparency group. The government told the court it has 329,000 pages of documents responsive to the FOIA request and proposed releasing 500 pages per month to allow for redactions of exempt material. At that rate, the FDA would fully release the records in question in just under 55 years"

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651284473]I felt like shti for a day or so and my arm was really sore. So much so it was waking me up at night. Lasted about 3 days. Wife had nothing.

@Tim. Figured that was where you were at. Mandates don't look like they will happen here but ya never know. Im trying to convince my wife not to get them vaxxed as the science is clear they arent in any danger.[/QUOTE]

The risk to benefit ratio does not support vaccinating kids. Hell it doesn’t support vaccinating many adults either. If you don’t think they’ll try to mandate it for kids you should take a look at where we’ve gone in less than a year. The former head of the FDA who is now the head of Pfizer is saying that he believes soon adults won’t be considered fully vaccinated until they get their booster(s). Look at the weaponization of OSHA to attempt a back door mandate for adults. This administration is a joke when it comes to the oath taken.

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651279353]Both my wife and I have been vaxxed, pretty sure we had the vid, and have been boosted, however, we are leaning heavily into not having our kids vaxxed (11 and 9). Any other [U]parents[/U] in this situation?[/QUOTE]My 19 and 14 y/o daughters are both fully vaccinated and neither had any major issues. My oldest contracted covid before vaccines were available and it scared the hell out of us. She was feverish for a week, couldn't smell or taste anything and had a pretty awful cough. She still doesn't have her smell and taste back 100%.

For me, I'll deal with any uncomfortable side-effects in order to avoid anyone in my home becoming hospitalized or worse due to covid. I have a high school friend, unvaccinated, in the ICU right now and she's not responding to treatment. She appears to be a healthy person (42 y/o) and is now willing to get vaccinated when she gets the opportunity. I just pray she gets the opportunity.

[QUOTE=Jbizzlechizzle;1651298193]My 19 and 14 y/o daughters are both fully vaccinated and neither had any major issues. My oldest contracted covid before vaccines were available and it scared the hell out of us. She was feverish for a week, couldn't smell or taste anything and had a pretty awful cough. She still doesn't have her smell and taste back 100%.

For me, I'll deal with any uncomfortable side-effects in order to avoid anyone in my home becoming hospitalized or worse due to covid. I have a high school friend, unvaccinated, in the ICU right now and she's not responding to treatment. She appears to be a healthy person (42 y/o) and is now willing to get vaccinated when she gets the opportunity. I just pray she gets the opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, J. I've had some people in my universe really get kicked in the teeth with this virus but no kids that I'm aware of. Real sorry about your friend and I hope she pulls through.

I'm of the same mind when it comes to my own vax - I'll assume the risk if that means I don't infect someone else. I'm in real close quarters with many people weekly with BJJ and we have some who aren't vaxxed rolling with us. I've been personally exposed by individuals who tested positive and for some reason I have yet to come down w/it.

My kids being younger and in no danger from what the numbers tell us have me leaning towards no vaxx for them unless the data changes. They do get their flu shot yearly though so I realize I'm being a hypocrite here but my gut tells me to wait.

[QUOTE=Jbizzlechizzle;1651298193]My 19 and 14 y/o daughters are both fully vaccinated and neither had any major issues. My oldest contracted covid before vaccines were available and it scared the hell out of us. She was feverish for a week, couldn't smell or taste anything and had a pretty awful cough. She still doesn't have her smell and taste back 100%.

For me, I'll deal with any uncomfortable side-effects in order to avoid anyone in my home becoming hospitalized or worse due to covid. I have a high school friend, unvaccinated, in the ICU right now and she's not responding to treatment. She appears to be a healthy person (42 y/o) and is now willing to get vaccinated when she gets the opportunity. I just pray she gets the opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Fully vaccinated LOL

Gets me every time.

When it started Vaccinations weren't even a thing and now look at us, 12 months later and people getting boosters. Found a very fitting meme



[img]https://i.imgur.com/JlmmGD4.jpg?1[/img]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/push-vaccinate-children-accelerates-pediatric-covid-19-cases/story%3fid=81334123[/url]

Clown world in full effect.

The vaxxed represent the weakest of us and now they're vaccinating their kids and spreading the virus.

[QUOTE=Corbi;1651279863]The moderna and other shot that are MRNA bother me, I have read too much negative $hit about them where i'm not willing to be a fukkin guinea pig. Wife and I got the J&J shot in march/april and been looking for the J&J booster....the government for some reason is really pushing this MRNA deal hard and heavy. Anyways we are getting the J&J booster tomorrow. I'm not typically a conspiracy nutjob but there is something going on when a government pushes one over the other and then wants the records sealed for 55 years.[/QUOTE]

I find this interesting because the sentiment is so widespread. Given the choice, I'll take the mRNA vaccine over the J&J version any day. There's less to it. Pretty much everything that could cause problems for you in the mRNA version is also in the J&J version, but not the other way around. They're all coding for the same spike protein. The mRNA vaccines sneak some mRNA through your cell wall by wrapping it in fat. The J&J virus embeds the same genetic sequence in a virus which infects your cells and causes the nucleus of your cells to produce the mRNA. With the J&J vaccine, you get the adeno virus too, but it's pretty safe. May cause some coagulopathy and viral symptoms.

If you're going to have a bad side effect from the mRNA vaccines, you'd likely have the same pathology from the J&J virus and the alpha strain of the virus. The spike protein in the alpha strain is actually a little more problematic for most people, although the major epitopes are theoretically the same. Same protein sequence, but when you change the other parts, it could affect the epitope conformation too.

I believe the vaccine version of the spike protein can't undergo the conformational change that is necessary for the viral spike protein to bind to some targets. So basically, you get a little of an attenuated spike protein with a tiny bit a lipids, a little of an attenuated spike protein plus a mild viral infection, or you get a lot of an unattenuated spike protein plus the nucleocapsid and other proteins in COVID 19.

I'm not planning to get a booster since I think there will be delta specific vaccines early next year, but if I were unvaccinated and had a negative Ab titer, I'd want Moderna, then Pfizer, then J&J followed by an mRNA booster, and my last choice would be the actual virus. I got Pfizer x2, and I'm pretty comfortable at this point.

Oh, and the reason I'd want an mRNA booster after one J&J shot is because you get some immunity to the carrier virus as well as to the spike protein if you get the J&J shot, so your body will attack the vaccine carrier if you get a second shot of J&J. Sputnik is a cool vaccine in that the second shot uses a different carrier vaccine to avoid that. Very clever!

Everyone in my family is now vaccinated, minus my second cousin who refused it and then died from COVID. I have no concerns and suspect any cardiac markers that bumped post vaccination have already returned to normal since I'm 6 months out. Will find out after my physical in a week if anything shows high :)

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651356563]I find this interesting because the sentiment is so widespread. Given the choice, I'll take the mRNA vaccine over the J&J version any day. There's less to it. Pretty much everything that could cause problems for you in the mRNA version is also in the J&J version, but not the other way around. They're all coding for the same spike protein. The mRNA vaccines sneak some mRNA through your cell wall by wrapping it in fat. The J&J virus embeds the same genetic sequence in a virus which infects your cells and causes the nucleus of your cells to produce the mRNA. With the J&J vaccine, you get the adeno virus too, but it's pretty safe. May cause some coagulopathy and viral symptoms.

If you're going to have a bad side effect from the mRNA vaccines, you'd likely have the same pathology from the J&J virus and the alpha strain of the virus. The spike protein in the alpha strain is actually a little more problematic for most people, although the major epitopes are theoretically the same. Same protein sequence, but when you change the other parts, it could affect the epitope conformation too.

I believe the vaccine version of the spike protein can't undergo the conformational change that is necessary for the viral spike protein to bind to some targets. So basically, you get a little of an attenuated spike protein with a tiny bit a lipids, a little of an attenuated spike protein plus a mild viral infection, or you get a lot of an unattenuated spike protein plus the nucleocapsid and other proteins in COVID 19.

[B]I'm not planning to get a booster[/b] since I think there will be delta specific vaccines early next year, but if I were unvaccinated and had a negative Ab titer, I'd want Moderna, then Pfizer, then J&J followed by an mRNA booster, and my last choice would be the actual virus. I got Pfizer x2, and I'm pretty comfortable at this point.

Oh, and the reason I'd want an mRNA booster after one J&J shot is because you get some immunity to the carrier virus as well as to the spike protein if you get the J&J shot, so your body will attack the vaccine carrier if you get a second shot of J&J. Sputnik is a cool vaccine in that the second shot uses a different carrier vaccine to avoid that. Very clever!

Everyone in my family is now vaccinated, minus my second cousin who refused it and then died from COVID. I have no concerns and suspect any cardiac markers that bumped post vaccination have already returned to normal since I'm 6 months out. Will find out after my physical in a week if anything shows high :)[/QUOTE]

Interesting. You think potential harm outweighed potential benefit though?

If you got boosted now, I'd assume you could get this delta booster in 6 months if such a thing becomes available.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1651357493]Interesting. You think potential harm outweighed potential benefit though?

If you got boosted now, I'd assume you could get this delta booster in 6 months if such a thing becomes available.[/QUOTE]

I think that at some point, your risk of side effects is likely to increase, and while I have no real evidence that 3 shots or 4 shots is the point where the risks outweigh the benefits, I also don't think the benefit is enough to let me make a strong case for booster shots to the alpha strain in people who are generally healthy and in their 50's. It gets even harder the younger the cohort.

If I got a booster shot, I think I'd have very little motivation to get a 4th shot, even if it was delta specific, because I'd consider myself well protected for several years. Also, it wouldn't do a lot to protect my parents from me 8 or 12 months in the future. Maybe it decreases the time I can carry and spread the virus 50% for a few months, and then 10% or 20% after that. Worth it to someone who works in an office or has elderly family members they see a lot, not worth it for me. A delta specific or "polyvalent" booster might have a really big effect on my ability to spread the virus, and it should provide even more protection, so I figure I'll wait for that. Hopefully it won't have a worse risk profile!

[QUOTE=BK909;1651338683][url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/push-vaccinate-children-accelerates-pediatric-covid-19-cases/story%3fid=81334123[/url]

Clown world in full effect.

The vaxxed represent the weakest of us and now they're vaccinating their kids and spreading the virus.[/QUOTE]



[url=https://imgbb.com/][img]https://i.ibb.co/X4XFtZj/source.gif[/img][/url]

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651358793]I think that at some point, your risk of side effects is likely to increase, and while I have no real evidence that 3 shots or 4 shots is the point where the risks outweigh the benefits, I also don't think the benefit is enough to let me make a strong case for booster shots to the alpha strain in people who are generally healthy and in their 50's. It gets even harder the younger the cohort.

If I got a booster shot, I think I'd have very little motivation to get a 4th shot, even if it was delta specific, because I'd consider myself well protected for several years. Also, it wouldn't do a lot to protect my parents from me 8 or 12 months in the future. Maybe it decreases the time I can carry and spread the virus 50% for a few months, and then 10% or 20% after that. Worth it to someone who works in an office or has elderly family members they see a lot, not worth it for me. A delta specific or "polyvalent" booster might have a really big effect on my ability to spread the virus, and it should provide even more protection, so I figure I'll wait for that. Hopefully it won't have a worse risk profile![/QUOTE]

I guess my real curiosity lies in how many antibodies do I have right now.

I have a. Sister-in-law that had been vaxxed and had Covid twice and just test with no antibodies 6 months out from her last Covid infection. I am just like wtfman?

[QUOTE=mgftp;1651359593]I guess my real curiosity lies in how many antibodies do I have right now.

I have a. Sister-in-law that had been vaxxed and had Covid twice and just test with no antibodies 6 months out from her last Covid infection. I am just like wtfman?[/QUOTE]

I don't know what to make of that. Either her immune system didn't respond by producing a lot of Ab or somebody screwed up a test (or 2). Given you probably share quite of few genes, it would be interesting to see if you have measurable antibodies, but I'm not sure it would tell us much. How did your sister do when she got infected? Mild cases, or did it knock her on her @$$? That could factor into your decision on a booster shot.

Also, since her story is a bit of an outlier, what vaccine did she get, when, and when did she test + for COVID?

Edit. Missed "in-law". Abort/delete/ignore ;) won't affect your decisions at all. Still curious as to which vaccine and the timing of this. Curious about age/race/health status too, but that's too personal, so I'll stick to asking about timing.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1651359593]I guess my real curiosity lies in how many antibodies do I have right now.

I have a. Sister-in-law that had been vaxxed and had Covid twice and just test with no antibodies 6 months out from her last Covid infection. I am just like wtfman?[/QUOTE]

That's nuts...

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651360063]I don't know what to make of that. Either her immune system didn't respond by producing a lot of Ab or somebody screwed up a test (or 2). Given you probably share quite of few genes, it would be interesting to see if you have measurable antibodies, but I'm not sure it would tell us much. How did your sister do when she got infected? Mild cases, or did it knock her on her @$$? That could factor into your decision on a booster shot.

Also, since her story is a bit of an outlier, what vaccine did she get, when, and when did she test + for COVID?

Edit. Missed "in-law". Abort/delete/ignore ;) won't affect your decisions at all. Still curious as to which vaccine and the timing of this. Curious about age/race/health status too, but that's too personal, so I'll stick to asking about timing.[/QUOTE]

Sister-in-law, so we share no genes. LoL

She was pretty bad both times, worse the 2nd time, assume it was Delta. No hospitalization though, just really sick for 2+ weeks. I am healthier than her and would like to think I do better. But I guess when I think booster I just think to if I got Covid would I be all sick thinking damn I should;be got that booster.

I can't really offer you much advice on that.
OK to ask when you got vaccinated, with what, and how old you are?

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651361963]I can't really offer you much advice on that.
OK to ask when you got vaccinated, with what, and how old you are?[/QUOTE]

Double Pfizer, 2nd shot in May, 40 years old, no Volvo.

Guess the best thing in my mind is the get antibodies tested to help make a decision although I don't think risk in either direction produces a bad choice.

[QUOTE=mgftp;1651362353]Double Pfizer, 2nd shot in May, 40 years old, no Volvo.

Guess the best thing in my mind is the get antibodies tested to help make a decision although I don't think risk in either direction produces a bad choice.[/QUOTE]

You just barely make the timeline for a booster since you're 6 months out, you're only 40, so your immune response to the vaccine is likely higher than mine at 53, and you're healthy.

I'm sure a booster will decrease your chances of having a symptomatic infection. That's just logic. I'm not sure it offers you a significant decrease in your mortality risk. Based on this:
[url]https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211105/covid-vaccine-protection-drops-study[/url]
my quick read says if you had a 98% reduction two weeks after your second shot, you are still looking at better than 84% reduction at 3 months. That's for under 65, and less than half of the under 65 cohort was under 40. Looks like 55% were 50-65, and 45% were under 50.

I just explained this to someone as the vaccine giving you antibodies to a Cattleman style cowboy hat, and the delta variant wearing a Montana style. Your Cattleman antibodies will stick to the delta variant's Montana hat and slow it down, but you won't start cranking out lots of Ab and T cells to the delta variant as quickly as you would if it wore the original's Cattleman crease hat. It's still really good if you already have antibodies around, but once your Ab levels drop, your anamnestic response to the delta variant is slower and less effective, so yeah, you're less protected.

Still, it's better than nothing! If you are worried, I don't want to discourage you from getting a booster shot. Like I said, if I worked in an office or was around at risk people, I'd get it. But I'm home based and am comfortable waiting a couple more months to see what happens.

Edit:
This is kind of cool: [url]https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator[/url]

Realize it used the mortality data from a group of patients who tested positive Pre 2021. It doesn't count patients who were asymptomatic and not tested, and it doesn't account for treatment options that weren't available before 2021. But if you take your risks and multiply them by .5 or .6 since you are vaccinated, that's likely around your worst case numbers. (I'm assuming the economist used valid data, but I'm not endorsing their calculator.)

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1651284473]I felt like shti for a day or so and my arm was really sore. So much so it was waking me up at night. Lasted about 3 days. Wife had nothing.

@Tim. Figured that was where you were at. Mandates don't look like they will happen here but ya never know. Im trying to convince my wife not to get them vaxxed as the science is clear they arent in any danger.[/QUOTE]

So let's be "clear". We don't actually know the long term risks of catching the virus as opposed to just getting the vaccine. A history of having had the EBV virus correlates with your risk of getting MS, the COVID virus clearly can lead to cardiac, vascular, or pulmonary issues in the short term, so saying there isn't a long term risk from it that exceeds that of the vaccine is premature by a decade or 3.

We have to assume they're going to get exposed to the virus one way or the other. If they've had the vaccine, they'll get less exposure to the viral antigens not included in the vaccines, so it comes down to relative risk. Do you expose them to one protein intentionally, and decrease their exposure to the viral proteins when they do get exposed, or do you just wait for them to get exposed to the virus and have more exposure to both that protein and all the others that come with it.

I do agree, we don't see a lot of risk for kids short term, and hopefully we won't see any long term, but no matter how you look at it, the mRNA vaccines are lower risk than the actual virus. Of course, it's still an alpha vaccine, and we're more concerned about delta, so you have to take a lot into consideration here.

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651368333]So let's be "clear". We don't actually know the long term risks of catching the virus as opposed to just getting the vaccine. A history of having had the EBV virus correlates with your risk of getting MS, the COVID virus clearly can lead to cardiac, vascular, or pulmonary issues in the short term, so saying there isn't a long term risk from it that exceeds that of the vaccine is premature by a decade or 3.

We have to assume they're going to get exposed to the virus one way or the other. If they've had the vaccine, they'll get less exposure to the viral antigens not included in the vaccines, so it comes down to relative risk. Do you expose them to one protein intentionally, and decrease their exposure to the viral proteins when they do get exposed, or do you just wait for them to get exposed to the virus and have more exposure to both that protein and all the others that come with it.

I do agree, we don't see a lot of risk for kids short term, and hopefully we won't see any long term, but no matter how you look at it, the mRNA vaccines are lower risk than the actual virus. Of course, it's still an alpha vaccine, and we're more concerned about delta, so you have to take a lot into consideration here.[/QUOTE]

We don’t know the long term effects of the virus or the vaccine. To say otherwise is dishonest. I guess we will know more about the long term effects of virus and vaccines in 55 years when the FDA releases the FOIA request info about the initial trials though…

Ima gonna wait for better booster then also. But then wouldn't I need a regular shot if I wait too long? I had my Jansen baby powder shot March. It's probably useless already.

[QUOTE=Cass40;1651373823]Ima gonna wait for better booster then also. But then wouldn't I need a regular shot if I wait too long? I had my Jansen baby powder shot March. It's probably useless already.[/QUOTE]

It’s not useless. It allows you to participate in life.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1651376033]It’s not useless. It allows you to participate in life.[/QUOTE]

For how long?

When has it's benefits gone 100%??

[QUOTE=Cass40;1651373823]Ima gonna wait for better booster then also. But then wouldn't I need a regular shot if I wait too long? I had my Jansen baby powder shot March. It's probably useless already.[/QUOTE]

Didn't you get a booster shot recently Cass? I thought I saw you post something about it since your original vaccine was the J&J one.

If any of us who have had the alpha vaccines get another shot, no matter how many years in the future it is, it will be a booster. You could probably call it a booster shot if you had the alpha strain of the virus and then got a single dose of the current vaccine after that.

If the next version of the vaccine is purely a delta spike protein, it won't actually be a booster, but it will be close enough since there's some cross reactivity, and having received the alpha strain vaccine, one shot will probably be sufficient. If the next version is polyvalent, it will be a booster plus a vaccine to the delta strain, or delta and lambda.

PlateauPlower,
The FDA has data on the "long term side effects" as they're defined. Nobody has ever found a side effect that presented years down the line as we discussed a couple of months back. The long term risks from having the virus now isn't something we have data on, because they won't have shown up. Saying we know the risks are now would be dishonest, but to say that a small exposure to one antigen is likely to have more long term risk than a larger exposure to a nearly identical antigen, plus a large exposure to other viral antigens that we have seen correlate with auto-immunity mediated inflammation, like the nucleocapsid, would also be dishonest.
So yes, we don't know if the vaccine could affect our future risks of developing something bad, but we can say with a lot of confidence that the danger is a lot lower than the dangers of that happening from the actual virus. We can also say with some confidence that almost everybody will eventually get exposed to the virus, so in a sense, you get to choose your exposure levels. If we had a delta specific vaccine, it would be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, we don't, so the difference in the future risk levels could be closer between the vaccine and the virus. Closer, but the virus short and long term risks are still almost certainly higher.

No I didn't get a booster, pay attention. But I'll wait for that whatever you're talking aboot.

Doctors..have to always repeat the medical record every time :D

I don't think a booster is really needed at this point...

it's not like it's going to change anything as far as personal freedoms go...

Covid is over and has been over since may or june as far as I've been concerned...

someone just needs to tell the politicians and the leftist media :)


I actually have sympathy for the people who willingly wear masks...

How beaten down in life do ya have to be to still subscribe to the bull**** ?

[QUOTE=Cass40;1651381733]No I didn't get a booster, pay attention. But I'll wait for that whatever you're talking aboot.

Doctors..have to always repeat the medical record every time :D[/QUOTE]

I will try to pay better attention Miss Cass.
and
yeah, I guess we often do.

Also, don't forget that I'm only planning to wait a couple of months to see if anyone has a phase 3 vaccine study running on a more delta specific antigen. I know Curevac is working on a second vaccine and pulled their first version, but I don't know if the sequence if different, or if they simply changed the carrier or something else.

Companies may not bother to modify the S protein for a lot of reasons, one of which is that the delta variant's S protein is still very close to the original S protein. I believe the changes in the S protein are primarily in the S1 subunit of the protein where the receptor binding domain is. According to what I've read that makes it better at binding to ACE receptors. I tend to think of it as S1 grabs your cell and S2 tunnels through to inject your cell with the genome. If the area on the Delta spike protein that changed isn't a strong antigenic site, meaning it isn't one of the epitopes that anti-covid antibodies bind to, then there may not be a better mRNA code to use. In that case, using the current vaccines might be as good as it gets for a long time. Scary stuff, right? But like I said, I'm comfortable waiting a couple of months to see. If I ever get a chance to speak with a conformational or structural biologist or biochemist doing research on this, I'll ask. Maybe the answer is out there but I can't find it. The bottom line is I don't know if modifying the current mRNA to match the delta variant's spike protein would help. It might just be that the delta variant is so much better at binding to our cells that we are getting exposed to higher loads from infected people and higher Ab levels is the best we can do for now. That's why I try not to discourage anyone who is concerned from getting a booster. I wish I had better answers for you guys but I don't right now. Sorry.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1651290003]The risk to benefit ratio does not support vaccinating kids. Hell it doesn’t support vaccinating many adults either. If you don’t think they’ll try to mandate it for kids you should take a look at where we’ve gone in less than a year. The former head of the FDA who is now the head of Pfizer is saying that he believes soon adults won’t be considered fully vaccinated until they get their booster(s). Look at the weaponization of OSHA to attempt a back door mandate for adults. This administration is a joke when it comes to the oath taken.[/QUOTE]

Hell Dr Mengele, I mean Fauci wants to start vaccinating newborns.

[QUOTE=Oceanside;1651382383]I don't think a booster is really needed at this point...

it's not like it's going to change anything as far as personal freedoms go...

Covid is over and has been over since may or june as far as I've been concerned...

someone just needs to tell the politicians and the leftist media :)


I actually have sympathy for the people who willingly wear masks...

How beaten down in life do ya have to be to still subscribe to the bull**** ?[/QUOTE]

It isn't like we want to wear them but when the signs change on the store windows, you must wear them.
We went from 50/100,000 to 60/100,000 over 7 days, so now they are back based on some calculation.

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1651388773]It isn't like we want to wear them but when the signs change on the store windows, you must wear them.
We went from 50/100,000 to 60/100,000 over 7 days, so now they are back based on some calculation.[/QUOTE]

I don't where you're at but San Diego has no mandate for anyone to wear a mask except employees and yet I see brainwashed people wearing mask inside of stores shopping....

it's pretty ****ed up when government gets into people heads enough to do something that's pretty much useless,,,

in fact it's alarming !

[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1651358793]I think that at some point, your risk of side effects is likely to increase, and while I have no real evidence that 3 shots or 4 shots is the point where the risks outweigh the benefits, I also don't think the benefit is enough to let me make a strong case for booster shots to the alpha strain in people who are generally healthy and in their 50's. It gets even harder the younger the cohort.

If I got a booster shot, I think I'd have very little motivation to get a 4th shot, even if it was delta specific, because I'd consider myself well protected for several years. Also, it wouldn't do a lot to protect my parents from me 8 or 12 months in the future. Maybe it decreases the time I can carry and spread the virus 50% for a few months, and then 10% or 20% after that. Worth it to someone who works in an office or has elderly family members they see a lot, not worth it for me. A delta specific or "polyvalent" booster might have a really big effect on my ability to spread the virus, and it should provide even more protection, so I figure I'll wait for that. Hopefully it won't have a worse risk profile![/QUOTE]

what was the point of the first shots if you dont get the booster though?

[QUOTE=Oceanside;1651389553]I don't where you're at but San Diego has no mandate for anyone to wear a mask except employees and yet I see brainwashed people wearing mask inside of stores shopping....

it's pretty ****ed up when government gets into people heads enough to do something that's pretty much useless,,,

in fact it's alarming ![/QUOTE]

You think that's bad? In Seattle I see people wearing them outdoors in an isolated part of a park nobody within a hundred yds. That's fcked up! Time to just shut the tv off at that point...

[QUOTE=Fishman15;1651394513]You think that's bad? In Seattle I see people wearing them outdoors in an isolated part of a park nobody within a hundred yds. That's fcked up! Time to just shut the tv off at that point...[/QUOTE]

I saw people a few weeks ago at Clingmans Dome which is in the Smokies at an altitude of 6,600' and 32º wearing freaking masks.

[QUOTE=Fishman15;1651394513]You think that's bad? In Seattle I see people wearing them outdoors in an isolated part of a park nobody within a hundred yds. That's fcked up! Time to just shut the tv off at that point...[/QUOTE]

You don’t have a clue where they were a few minutes ago. Stop judging. Maybe they don’t wanna take it off and put it on over and over again? Easier to make peace with it and keep it on sometimes.

But sure is a cringe when I see people riding in a car by themselves and have a mask on. Now that’s fkn retarted