Will you get vaccinated?

Found out this morning they are allocating a large percentage of our Vaccines to areas harder hit.

Back of the line once again.

I have also heard that the AstraZeneca vaccines are getting spoiled because folks turn them down at the clinics ...however there has only been two cases of the clotting issue with it here in Canada, not sure how accurate that is.

More fun: There is a stay at home order in Ontario, however my Son is finished University and I have to travel 3.5 hours away (one way) with him to move out of his room in the house he rents with 3 other guys...by the end of this month. Landlord wants them out so he can fix up/clean up for the next tenants. Not sure if moving out breaks rules or not. You are only supposed to leave home to: work, get basic supplies, seek medical attention, assist someone who lives alone.

[QUOTE=Cantplankwell;1636570843]Found out this morning they are allocating a large percentage of our Vaccines to areas harder hit.

Back of the line once again.

I have also heard that the AstraZeneca vaccines are getting spoiled because folks turn them down at the clinics ...however there has only been two cases of the clotting issue with it here in Canada, not sure how accurate that is.

More fun: There is a stay at home order in Ontario, however my Son is finished University and I have to travel 3.5 hours away (one way) with him to move out of his room in the house he rents with 3 other guys...by the end of this month. Landlord wants them out so he can fix up/clean up for the next tenants. Not sure if moving out breaks rules or not. You are only supposed to leave home to: work, get basic supplies, seek medical attention, assist someone who lives alone.[/QUOTE]

Hope you get that all sorted Brother. That's a weird one

Johnson & Johnson suffers another supply setback as Emergent suspends vaccine manufacturing ... Contamination with ingredients from a coronavirus vaccine made by AstraZeneca ruined 15 million doses of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine last month





Why should we trust AZ or J & J ? Seems every other day there is something.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1636587493]Johnson & Johnson suffers another supply setback as Emergent suspends vaccine manufacturing ... Contamination with ingredients from a coronavirus vaccine made by AstraZeneca ruined 15 million doses of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine last month

Why should we trust AZ or J & J ? Seems every other day there is something.[/QUOTE]

Really poor form on these. It’s a shame too because these are the shots that would be better suited to mass vaccinations as well as rural areas since the storage conditions are not as difficult as Pfizer and Moderna.

J&J will have trust issues going forward for sure.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1636589943]Really poor form on these. It’s a shame too because these are the shots that would be better suited to mass vaccinations as well as rural areas since the storage conditions are not as difficult as Pfizer and Moderna.

J&J will have trust issues going forward for sure.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, I havent seen negative issues with Moderna or Pfizer















[img]https://i.imgur.com/X7XwVI6.jpg?1[/img]

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1636591153]Agreed, I havent seen negative issues with Moderna or Pfizer[/QUOTE]
Just some pretty nasty temporary sides for some. Another person I work with got their second Pfizer dose Friday and felt like death Saturday and Sunday then poof sides were gone and he felt fine. Said he was shivering, sweating and slept about 14hrs. He also had covid not too long ago. I wonder if the people who get worse sides were exposed wether they knew it or not. Then I heard on the radio that people with “long covid” were getting better after vaccination. Weird. Also UK is going to start a forced exposure trial with people who had covid to see if they get it again. Will be interesting to see the data there.

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1636591353]Just some pretty nasty temporary sides for some. Another person I work with got their second Pfizer dose Friday and felt like death Saturday and Sunday then poof sides were gone and he felt fine. Said he was shivering, sweating and slept about 14hrs. He also had covid not too long ago. I wonder if the people who get worse sides were exposed wether they knew it or not.[/QUOTE]

Yes you are right, I have seen similar stories as well..

About 80 of us had bad reactions in boot camp from Vaccinations. Same deal hot, cold, sweats. fever, nausea tossing cookies, some of us lucky bastards even got the Sh!ts. Too many of us for the hospital, they sent staff to us. I wouldn't want that again. No sir.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1636592063]Yes you are right, I have seen similar stories as well..

About 80 of us had bad reactions in boot camp from Vaccinations. Same deal hot, cold, sweats. fever, nausea some of us lucky bastards even got the Sh!ts. Too many of us for the hospital, they sent staff to us. I wouldn't want that again. No sir.[/QUOTE]

I’m not surprised, that’s a whole bunch of stuff you get all at once.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ziHlqLx.png[/img]




[img]https://i.imgur.com/UfI1rrf.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1636594453][img]https://i.imgur.com/ziHlqLx.png[/img]




[img]https://i.imgur.com/UfI1rrf.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

Fkn thanks. I finally got the nerves together to get the vaccine (stil have to go get it) and you post this

[QUOTE=TryingBB;1636595493]Fkn thanks. I finally got the nerves together to get the vaccine (stil have to go get it) and you post this[/QUOTE]

Lol ya, well, you do get some side effects from basic stuff like the flu shot (or COVID vaccine).... the factory line of vaccinations would make anyone sick.
Thankfully I only had to do that once.

[QUOTE=TryingBB;1636595493]Fkn thanks. I finally got the nerves together to get the vaccine (stil have to go get it) and you post this[/QUOTE]
Dude, you go get that shot as planned in spite of these here big babies.

That's right, the truth is that its got nothing to do with the vaccine; all these self proclaimed "anti vaxxers" are scared of needles! That's it! They just big babies!

I do gotta say that it is a honking big needle they jab you with. Dude, you're not scared of needles are you? If so, wear a helmet so if you pass out, you wont snap your noodles. You'll probably be fine. :)

[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1636591353]Just some pretty nasty temporary sides for some. Another person I work with got their second Pfizer dose Friday and felt like death Saturday and Sunday then poof sides were gone and he felt fine. Said he was shivering, sweating and slept about 14hrs. He also had covid not too long ago. I wonder if the people who get worse sides were exposed wether they knew it or not.[/QUOTE]

I had the nasty sides.

My Gout was acting up bad Friday, probably been 4 years since I had a problem with it. Had some pills tucked away in case it ever came back. The pills have a "may cause dizziness" warning on them, but I have never been dizzy by any medication, until now. Felt like I was on a tilt-a-whirl if I sat down for a bit and then got up and started moving, I might just be getting old or maybe that medicine was old but WTF.

I felt crappy for about 4 hours and then I was fine...

but then again I embrace adversity and it's no real secret I'm a lot tougher than most of the sissy's that frequent this site !

[QUOTE=Oceanside;1636616553]I felt crappy for about 4 hours and then I was fine...

but then again I embrace adversity and it's no real secret I'm a lot tougher than most of the sissy's that frequent this site ![/QUOTE]

RIP





In one year time

[QUOTE=MinisterOfLust;1636617513]RIP
In one year time[/QUOTE]

you're such a girly man...

you probably host tupperware parties every sunday morning at 10am with mimosa's, and Donna Summer CD's playing in the background .

Yea..all those animal tests of the vaccine..those didn’t pan out too well..but I’m sure for humans it will be much different in a few months..

-Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

[url]https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421[/url]

-Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Feline Infectious Peritonitis Virus Infection in Feline Alveolar Macro****es and Human Monocyte Cell Line U937 by Serum of Cats Experimentally or Naturally Infected with Feline Coronavirus

[url]https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jvms/60/1/60_1_49/_article[/url]


-Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17194199/[/url]


-Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382/[/url]


-Prior immunization with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) nucleocapsid protein causes severe pneumonia in mice infected with SARS-CoV

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18941225/[/url]

-Evaluation of the mRNA-1273 Vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 in Nonhuman Primates

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7449230/[/url]

-Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets

[url]https://jvi.asm.org/content/78/22/12672[/url]

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636619933]Yea..all those animal tests of the vaccine..those didn’t pan out too well..but I’m sure for humans it will be much different in a few months..

-Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

[url]https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421[/url]

-Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Feline Infectious Peritonitis Virus Infection in Feline Alveolar Macro****es and Human Monocyte Cell Line U937 by Serum of Cats Experimentally or Naturally Infected with Feline Coronavirus

[url]https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jvms/60/1/60_1_49/_article[/url]


-Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17194199/[/url]


-Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382/[/url]


-Prior immunization with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) nucleocapsid protein causes severe pneumonia in mice infected with SARS-CoV

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18941225/[/url]

-Evaluation of the mRNA-1273 Vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 in Nonhuman Primates

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7449230/[/url]

-Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets

[url]https://jvi.asm.org/content/78/22/12672[/url][/QUOTE]

those poor ferrets.

[QUOTE=Oceanside;1636620403]those poor ferrets.[/QUOTE]

You mean humans..

Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33113270/[/url]

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636619933]Yea..all those animal tests of the vaccine..those didn’t pan out too well..but I’m sure for humans it will be much different in a few months..

-Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

[url]https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421[/url]

-Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Feline Infectious Peritonitis Virus Infection in Feline Alveolar Macro****es and Human Monocyte Cell Line U937 by Serum of Cats Experimentally or Naturally Infected with Feline Coronavirus

[url]https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jvms/60/1/60_1_49/_article[/url]


-Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17194199/[/url]


-Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382/[/url]


-Prior immunization with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) nucleocapsid protein causes severe pneumonia in mice infected with SARS-CoV

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18941225/[/url]

-Evaluation of the mRNA-1273 Vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 in Nonhuman Primates

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7449230/[/url]

-Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets

[url]https://jvi.asm.org/content/78/22/12672[/url][/QUOTE]

Cliffs?

Do the vaccine or not? Why?

Thought this one was funny.

[img]https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/6be80ce285db058180d63b989fce8fd85f4612de0945046768214fa3c5edcbf7_1.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Cantplankwell;1636570843]Found out this morning they are allocating a large percentage of our Vaccines to areas harder hit.

Back of the line once again.

I have also heard that the AstraZeneca vaccines are getting spoiled because folks turn them down at the clinics ...however there has only been two cases of the clotting issue with it here in Canada, not sure how accurate that is.

More fun: There is a stay at home order in Ontario, however my Son is finished University and I have to travel 3.5 hours away (one way) with him to move out of his room in the house he rents with 3 other guys...by the end of this month. Landlord wants them out so he can fix up/clean up for the next tenants. Not sure if moving out breaks rules or not. You are only supposed to leave home to: work, get basic supplies, seek medical attention, assist someone who lives alone.[/QUOTE]

You are fine to leave your home and travel to move your son. I checked this out, because I am in the process of closing up my dad's house and settling his estate.

The AstraZeneca shot is given at pharmacies. The public health locations are giving Pfizer or Moderna.

I got my first dose vaccine last week. I am 56YO and in good health, but I got to get a vax because I live in a hot spot even though I work from home, can afford to get my groceries delivered, and seldom leave the house. If I had my way, I would have given my spot to a worker who takes a crowded bus to and from their warehouse job where they have no benefits, no sick days, no vacation days, and are still considered part-time after years of service. Those are the people who are getting sick and those are the people who ought to be vaccinated before people like me.

[QUOTE=Oceanside;1636618463]you're such a girly man...

you probably host tupperware parties every sunday morning at 10am with mimosa's, and Donna Summer CD's playing in the background .[/QUOTE]

Donna had some good songs, so don't be hatin.....:)

[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1636639423]Donna had some good songs, so don't be hatin.....:)[/QUOTE]

[youtube]Nm-ISatLDG0[/youtube]

This was years ahead of it's time, great tune

[QUOTE=TryingBB;1636624443]Cliffs?

Do the vaccine or not? Why?[/QUOTE]

Once vaccinated, the animals had an inability to fight off or suffered adverse effects once reinfected.

The vaccinated animals did not all die; however, many vaccinated animals became sicker than non-vaccinated when exposed to the SARS virus. Some studies included sacrificing the test animals and tissue study---most of the vaccinated animals in the studies developed inflammation in liver or lung or elsewhere.

[QUOTE=TryingBB;1636624443]Cliffs?

Do the vaccine or not? Why?[/QUOTE]

Reading the first link. It wasn't a vaccine that was finished, it was 9 years ago (2012), wasn't for COVID (i.e. wasn't for SARS-CoV-2), wasn't humans

But... if you are reading this post and just about to vaccinate ferrets with random old vaccines, I hope makes you stop and think about what you're doing.

EDIT:

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636641333]Once vaccinated, the animals had an inability to fight off or suffered adverse effects once reinfected.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying getting any of the vaccines is zero risk... But be aware in the AZ trials they exposed vaccinated people to the virus to test for exactly that. So far... there's no evidence of it being a significant risk.

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1636641493]Reading the first link. It wasn't a vaccine that was finished, it was 9 years ago (2012), wasn't for COVID (i.e. wasn't for SARS-CoV-2), wasn't humans

But... if you are reading this post and just about to vaccinate ferrets with random old vaccines, I hope makes you stop and think about what you're doing[/QUOTE]

Lmfao I'm ded :D

[QUOTE=Oceanside;1636618463]you're such a girly man...

you probably host tupperware parties every sunday morning at 10am with mimosa's, and Donna Summer CD's playing in the background .[/QUOTE]

I bake cookies and I sing Kumbaya.

How did you get your mental toughness?

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636619933]Yea..all those animal tests of the vaccine..those didn’t pan out too well..but I’m sure for humans it will be much different in a few months..

-Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

[url]https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421[/url]

-Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Feline Infectious Peritonitis Virus Infection in Feline Alveolar Macro****es and Human Monocyte Cell Line U937 by Serum of Cats Experimentally or Naturally Infected with Feline Coronavirus

[url]https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jvms/60/1/60_1_49/_article[/url]


-Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17194199/[/url]


-Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382/[/url]


-Prior immunization with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) nucleocapsid protein causes severe pneumonia in mice infected with SARS-CoV

[url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18941225/[/url]

-Evaluation of the mRNA-1273 Vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 in Nonhuman Primates

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7449230/[/url]

-Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets

[url]https://jvi.asm.org/content/78/22/12672[/url][/QUOTE]

How long did it take you to make this post?

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1636641493]Reading the first link. It wasn't a vaccine that was finished, it was 9 years ago (2012), wasn't for COVID (i.e. wasn't for SARS-CoV-2), wasn't humans

But... if you are reading this post and just about to vaccinate ferrets with random old vaccines, I hope makes you stop and think about what you're doing.

EDIT:


I'm not saying getting any of the vaccines is zero risk... But be aware in the AZ trials they exposed vaccinated people to the virus to test for exactly that. So far... there's no evidence of it being a significant risk.[/QUOTE]

The first SARS-CoV outbreak was back in the 2003. It was much more likely to kill than the current COV19. Much work was done trying to develop a vaccine; however, the outbreak rather fizzled-out.

Scientists knew that another recurrence was likely (and planned in advance?) and continued to work on a reliable vaccine. Maybe the mRNA vaccine is gonna be the answer, maybe it's gonna be the "final solution"?

The last studies were specifically Covid 19

Also..

-Antibody-dependent enhancement and SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and therapies

[url]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5[/url]

[QUOTE=eomrat;1636641683]How long did it take you to make this post?[/QUOTE]

Not long, it's all copy and paste,
the guy is just a fuking Parrot

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1636642193]Not long, it's all copy and paste,
the guy is just a fuking Parrot[/QUOTE]

Yea, it’s literally the studies title & the links to them. FFS it’s a 2 min google search

Yeah, understood. Oxford team vaccine was being developed for MERS (and SARS derivatives possible) and went to initial trials for MERS, so when CoV-2 landed they were 3/4 the way there. That's how they got it out first.

Interestingly Astra Zeneca aren't historically a vaccine company, they decided to do this with Oxford for cost, so they're not making money out of it (not directly). They thought that it would result in everyone thinking they were wonderful and ultra helpful best company ever and it'd all be skipping through sunshine and roses.

Things didn't exactly turn out like that. Bet they wished they'd chosen cash instead.

[QUOTE=mtpockets;1636642193]Not long, it's all copy and paste,
the guy is just a fuking Parrot[/QUOTE]

Is that the same guy who threatened to start posting proof that common colds don't spread from person to person?

[QUOTE=Cass40;1636642563]Is that the same guy who threatened to start posting proof that common colds don't spread from person to person?[/QUOTE]

I don't know, but it most certainly could be

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1636642463]Yeah, understood. Oxford team vaccine was being developed for MERS (and SARS derivatives possible) and went to initial trials for MERS, so when CoV-2 landed they were 3/4 the way there. That's how they got it out first.

Interestingly Astra Zeneca aren't historically a vaccine company, they decided to do this with Oxford for cost, so they're not making money out of it (not directly). They thought that it would result in everyone thinking they were wonderful and ultra helpful best company ever and it'd all be skipping through sunshine and roses.

Things didn't exactly turn out like that. Bet they wished they'd chosen cash instead.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Here's an article from last May that discussed antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) and vaccine-associated enhanced respiratory disease (ERD)

[url]https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19-vaccine-researchers-mindful-of-immune-enhancement-67576[/url]

“Different routes to immune enhancement came to the foreground in the 1960s during clinical trials where young children were immunized with whole-inactivated virus vaccines against respiratory syncytial virus (RSV). When the children contracted RSV naturally a few months after the vaccinations, those who were immunized got a lot sicker than those who weren’t. In fact, in one trial, 80 percent of children in the youngest cohort had to be hospitalized, and two died.
"The syndrome those hospitalized kids developed is called vaccine-associated enhanced respiratory disease (ERD)"

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636642363]Yea, it’s literally the studies title & the links to them. FFS it’s a 2 min google search[/QUOTE]

So, you didn't read the articles you posted?

[QUOTE=Cass40;1636642563]Is that the same guy who threatened to start posting proof that common colds don't spread from person to person?[/QUOTE]

Are you on meds? Srs question

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636643033]Are you on meds? Srs question[/QUOTE]

No I am not.

[QUOTE=Cass40;1636643093]No I am not.[/QUOTE]

At no point did lockdowns, masks or mandates prove to slow the spread, in fact quite the opposite. That was my point..

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636643303]At no point did lockdowns, masks or mandates prove to slow the spread, in fact quite the opposite. That was my point..[/QUOTE]

Nope. I said I used to get common colds before covid when I was around people, and you said something against that. You or somebody..I can't remember since I talk to too many people.

Tell me how my conclusion that somebody who doesn't agree that common colds spread from other people is so crazy that you are asking if I'm medicated?

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636643303]That was my point..[/QUOTE]

You don't seem to realize that no one cares about your point.


[QUOTE=Cass40;1636643803]
Tell me how my conclusion that somebody who doesn't agree that common colds spread from other people is so crazy that you are asking if I'm medicated?[/QUOTE]

He can't refute your conclusion, he can only post links to stuff he didn't even read.

[QUOTE=eomrat;1636643843]You don't seem to realize that no one cares about your point.[/QUOTE]

Well I would like to know how if you're locked up in your house you can still get infected?

I thought you get infected from other people. That was my point that before covid I was always sick, in lockdown I haven't been sick.

[QUOTE=Cass40;1636643803]Nope. I said I used to get common colds before covid when I was around people, and you said something against that. You or somebody..I can't remember since I talk to too many people.

Tell me how my conclusion that somebody who doesn't agree that common colds spread from other people is so crazy that you are asking if I'm medicated?[/QUOTE]

Of course colds spread from person to person, last I checked that is how Covid spreads as well. If lockdowns did not work for Covid, why would they work for the common cold? Last I checked the cv viron is smaller that influenza

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636642973]...
[url]https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19-vaccine-researchers-mindful-of-immune-enhancement-67576[/url]
..[/QUOTE]
Interesting article. This is only relevant to viruses that can infect macro****es, which they say they didn't know when they wrote it, however it has been shown that SARS-CoV-2 *can* infect macro****es. However
1) This effect was tested for in AZ trials and not observed then or since in vaccinated populations of millions (so far anyway..)
2) It's the same theoretical issue if you get the virus or receive the vaccination and later encounter a different strain. So if this problem arrises in time with different strains being "helped', vaccination is likely no worse than "helped" by previous natural exposure

The risks to a population from being vaccination still seems significantly lower than the risks arising from not being vaccinated. IMHO.

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636644333]Of course colds spread from person to person, last I checked that is how Covid spreads as well. If lockdowns did not work for Covid, why would they work for the common cold? Last I checked the cv viron is smaller that influenza[/QUOTE]

How am I getting covid in lockdown if I don't see other people?

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636644333]Of course colds spread from person to person, last I checked that is how Covid spreads as well. If lockdowns did not work for Covid, why would they work for the common cold? Last I checked the cv viron is smaller that influenza[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cass40;1636644493]How am I getting covid in lockdown if I don't see other people?[/QUOTE]

Maybe you can stay locked up in your house but most still have to go outside at some point. Groceries, work, etc. Live in an appointment or condo, remember early outbreak in an apartment building at Wuhan where there were no plumbing traps and thus gas (aerosol) from people's scat was getting into other people's apartments and the outbreak occurred across floors units where the individuals had no reasonable possibility of personal or droplet contact.

Paul's last few posts have been about the potential of getting more sick after vaccination and experiencing a re-infection (or being a Breakthrough case).

There is now some data out there of Breakthrough cases. Granted, it's not a lot of data, but data nonetheless.

[url]https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html[/url]

[quote]COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC
As of April 13, 2021, more than 75 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 since December 14, 2020.
During the same time, CDC received 5,814 reports of vaccine breakthrough infections from 43 U.S. states and territories.
Vaccine breakthrough infections were reported among people of all ages eligible for vaccination.
2,622 (45%) of the reported infections were among people ≥60 years of age.
3,752 (65%) of the people experiencing a breakthrough infection were female.
1,695 (29%) of the vaccine breakthrough infections were reported as asymptomatic.
396 (7%) people with breakthrough infections were known to be hospitalized and 74 (1%) died.
Of the 396 hospitalized patients, 133 (34%) were reported as asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason not related to COVID-19.
Of the 74 fatal cases, 9 (12%) were reported as asymptomatic or the patient died due to a cause not related to COVID-19.
Hospitalizations and deaths that are not a direct result of COVID-19 are still considered vaccine breakthrough cases if the person was fully vaccinated and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19.[/quote]

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1636644393]Interesting article. This is only relevant to viruses that can infect macro****es, which they say they didn't know when they wrote it, however it has been shown that SARS-CoV-2 *can* infect macro****es. However
1) This effect was tested for in AZ trials and not observed then or since in vaccinated populations of millions (so far anyway..)
2) It's the same theoretical issue if you get the virus or receive the vaccination and later encounter a different strain. So if this problem arrises in time with different strains being "helped', vaccination is likely no worse than "helped" by previous natural exposure

The risks to a population from being vaccination still seems significantly lower than the risks arising from not being vaccinated. IMHO.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure how you can say that Tom, I’m not gonna deny you are far more knowledgeable than me, but last I checked ubiquitous viruses are fought and defeated primarily by the T-Cell lymphocytes within our immune systems, Not from natural or artificially implanted antibodies, which is an absolutely essential missing factor in the epidemiological mortality calculations.
Antigenic shift (mutation) is a common normal biological function. Even though Cronavirus are considered more stable in this regard than flu/virus, nevertheless inevitably will occur within large population infection spread. This is precisely why vaccines have little to no chance of effectiveness for Corona type viruses. History has proven this true over and over. Corna vaccines are notoriously problematic ( mostly due to rapid weakening) and have never been successful.

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1636644713]Maybe you can stay locked up in your house but most still have to go outside at some point. Groceries, work, etc. Live in an appointment or condo, remember early outbreak in an apartment building at Wuhan where there were no plumbing traps and thus gas (aerosol) from people's scat was getting into other people's apartments and the outbreak occurred across floors units where the individuals had no reasonable possibility of personal or droplet contact.[/QUOTE]

Oh I see. When you said lockdown you didn't really mean anyone was in lockdown. And yeah now that makes sense that if you live in some nasty apartment where other people's chit droplets are infecting you, then maybe it would be better to go outside. I didn't consider crowded apartments and people stuck there together. I can totally see the point of that not being good.