[QUOTE=sy2502;1645273483]And yet the same doctor would treat murderers and child molesters. Makes you think.[/QUOTE]
Yeah even in prisons people get healthcare.
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[QUOTE=sy2502;1645273483]And yet the same doctor would treat murderers and child molesters. Makes you think.[/QUOTE]
Yeah even in prisons people get healthcare.
[QUOTE=Cass40;1645276283]Yeah even in prisons people get healthcare.[/QUOTE]
Free because of taxpayer funding too.
[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1645274663]Patient reportedly removed from transplant wait list for refusing vaccine.
[url]https://mynorthwest.com/3094868/rantz-uw-medicine-transplant-covid-vaccine/[/url][/QUOTE]
They have very strict rules for who does and who does not receive organs.
It seems that they are hard to come by....... and if you do things that they deem as unsuitable( organ rejection/failure) then they take you off the list.
My father had a condition and the docs said he was not eligible for a heart transplant, so it happens.
Total sh*t show with vaxers, anti vaxers, contradictory information and open borders.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1645277133]Free because of taxpayer funding too.[/QUOTE]
Yup, Dental too and we are paying for it. Meanwhile some honest law biding folks can't afford treatment
[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645279933]They have very strict rules for who does and who does not receive organs.
It seems that they are hard to come by....... and if you do things that they deem as unsuitable( organ rejection/failure) then they take you off the list.
My father had a condition and the docs said he was not eligible for a heart transplant, so it happens.[/QUOTE]
Meanwhile, we're transplanting livers with active viral hepatitis (I just saw one approved last night). The criteria there is that it can't be cirrhotic.
[QUOTE=TolerantLactose;1645274663]Patient reportedly removed from transplant wait list for refusing vaccine.
[url]https://mynorthwest.com/3094868/rantz-uw-medicine-transplant-covid-vaccine/[/url][/QUOTE]
It's ironic that the same drugs given to organ transplant recipients to prevent rejection, could also significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccines in those people.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1645260913]You should get a really cool trapper keeper to organize all of your papers. Want to make sure you can find all the boosters in the correct order.[/QUOTE]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/csE5ond.jpg?1[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GmBhUKB.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=tax2379;1645332883]Honestly, the government needs to start forcing vaccinations. They can do it by taxing all income at 100% for the unvaccinated.[/QUOTE]
100% seems a bit steep
[QUOTE=tax2379;1645332883]Honestly, the government needs to start forcing vaccinations. They can do it by taxing all income at 100% for the unvaccinated.[/QUOTE]
We could be like the Germans forcing people to take Zyklon B back in the day.
can't wait to get a booster. It is available now and I know many people got it already, as nobody is checking if you are immunocompromised or not. But I feel guilty doing that, so will wait for my turn :)
I've learned 15-20% of the healthcare workforce here is unvaxxed. Not sure how many will walk with the mandatory vax. Not sure how many will use religious exemption. More people overall than I thought. We're already short staffed. Should be interesting next couple of months.
[QUOTE=_zman;1645339993]I've learned 15-20% of the healthcare workforce here is unvaxxed. Not sure how many will walk with the mandatory vax. Not sure how many will use religious exemption. More people overall than I thought. We're already short staffed. Should be interesting next couple of months.[/QUOTE]
Would you walk out if forced to vax?
I read yesterday that one area isn't accepting the religious exemption, I forget what the, state, organization or what business it was.
[QUOTE=lotusdeva;1645339843]can't wait to get a booster. It is available now and I know many people got it already, as nobody is checking if you are immunocompromised or not. But I feel guilty doing that, so will wait for my turn :)[/QUOTE]
That is really fast!
I have heard nada about DC and Maryland starting the process. Are you still in VA?
As long as they are giving incentives to get more folks vaccinated, they should give out guns and bibles, it seems that most of the unvaccinated love their guns and or bibles :D
[QUOTE=_zman;1645339993]I've learned 15-20% of the healthcare workforce here is unvaxxed. Not sure how many will walk with the mandatory vax. Not sure how many will use religious exemption. More people overall than I thought. We're already short staffed. Should be interesting next couple of months.[/QUOTE]
The Huston hospital that fired 150 medical people is understaffed and begging for workers now. I just read a report where MDs here in IL are being threatened by the licensing board (IDFPR) to "toe the line" or lose their licenses after not supporting the narrative lol. Hurry up and get vaccinated with a vaccine that is increasingly showing its lack of efficacy. Hurry up and get your boosters of the same even though it might have less to do with time than it does changes in the Delta variant.
The thing is, from an objective standpoint, the "science" showed that the vaccines were 90+% effective initially, and then that changed, to MUCH lower efficacy. The data also showed that the vaccines were safe initially, but for what time period? Could that also change? I just heard on the radio on my way to work that Moderna is now being evaluated for a much higher incidence rate of myocarditis. The experiment continues, medically, socially and so fourth. I still advocate that people in higher risk groups *should* get vaccinated, as the risk/reward seems to favor that. However, people who choose to not partake in the experiment should be free to do so, instead taking their chances with the disease. I can't fathom how increasingly, news is reporting on "breakthrough infections" (AKA vaccine failures) yet people continue with the "erbody mUsT gEt vacCinAtd its sCieNCE)
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1645341213]Would you walk out if forced to vax?
I read yesterday that one area isn't accepting the religious exemption, I forget what the, state, organization or what business it was.[/QUOTE]
I'm still debating if I'll walk. I will try for religious exemption first. Others have stated they will walk. They'll have a committee reviewing the religious exemptions. We asked them questions about who that would be and how they'll evaluate the application, but no good answers were given yet.
I was open to vaxing if it were Novavax.
But, as long as it's mandatory to participate in society I am not open to vax due to similarities of what's stated in Revelations and being a slippery slope of government having more control over basic functions to participate in society. I think of it as philosophical/religious reasons. They've clearly stated it can't be a philosophical reason and I stated that both are intertwined and they eventually agreed that this is a correct statement.
Certain states do allow for philosophical reasons. This is not one.
They're having discussions to try to appease the enormous amount of blowback, but they clearly did no good for those of us that are on the fence for ethical/religious reasons. Some individuals had some really good questions, but none were really answered or could be answered.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1645342733]The Huston hospital that fired 150 medical people is understaffed and begging for workers now. I just read a report where MDs here in IL are being threatened by the licensing board (IDFPR) to "toe the line" or lose their licenses after not supporting the narrative lol. Hurry up and get vaccinated with a vaccine that is increasingly showing its lack of efficacy. Hurry up and get your boosters of the same even though it might have less to do with time than it does changes in the Delta variant.
The thing is, from an objective standpoint, the "science" showed that the vaccines were 90+% effective initially, and then that changed, to MUCH lower efficacy. The data also showed that the vaccines were safe initially, but for what time period? Could that also change? I just heard on the radio on my way to work that Moderna is now being evaluated for a much higher incidence rate of myocarditis. The experiment continues, medically, socially and so fourth. I still advocate that people in higher risk groups *should* get vaccinated, as the risk/reward seems to favor that. However, people who choose to not partake in the experiment should be free to do so, instead taking their chances with the disease. I can't fathom how increasingly, news is reporting on "breakthrough infections" (AKA vaccine failures) yet people continue with the "erbody mUsT gEt vacCinAtd its sCieNCE)[/QUOTE]
They're going to have the same problem here. They worked with other hospitals in the area to force the jab, so you can't easily find other employment opportunities. Which begs the question regarding the overall goal of: how will you continue to provide care for the community if you're already understaffed and will likely lose more staff?
Yes, the efficacy being reduced is another reason of why even bother getting the vaccine if they A. Only last 8 months at the most B. Are not effective against certain/new strains C. 3rd jab may cause more side-effects. D. Pharma companies are unethically raising the prices which shows this is just a new product line for them
As soon as the announcement was made I had two recruiters calling me for potential employment. I'll likely be fine no matter what happens and with the job market the way it is, I'm looking at anywhere from 20-50% raise anyway. So why bother working for a company that is pushing an unethical agenda. Even if the next job forces the jab, at least I can get the Novavax written in as my stipulation with a nice raise.
[QUOTE=_zman;1645342873]I'm still debating if I'll walk. I will try for religious exemption first. Others have stated they will walk. They'll have a committee reviewing the religious exemptions. We asked them questions about who that would be and how they'll evaluate the application, but no good answers were given yet.
I was open to vaxing if it were Novavax.
But, as long as it's mandatory to participate in society I am not open to vax due to similarities of what's stated in Revelations and being a slippery slope of government having more control over basic functions to participate in society. I think of it as philosophical/religious reasons. They've clearly stated it can't be a philosophical reason and I stated that both are intertwined and they eventually agreed that this is a correct statement.
Certain states do allow for philosophical reasons. This is not one.
They're having discussions to try to appease the enormous amount of blowback, but they clearly did no good for those of us that are on the fence for ethical/religious reasons. Some individuals had some really good questions, but none were really answered or could be answered.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the response, I hope it doesn't come down to being mandatory for you, I know your stance on the issue. No one should be forced imo.
I am fully vaxed by choice, not sure how I would handle being forced, I am a vet so I had many mandatory vaccinations but this one is different being experimental and all. If forced I am probably stubborn enough to walk and regret it later lol
[QUOTE=_zman;1645343263]They're going to have the same problem here. They worked with other hospitals in the area to force the jab, so you can't easily find other employment opportunities. Which begs the question regarding the overall goal of: how will you continue to provide care for the community if you're already understaffed and will likely lose more staff?
Yes, the efficacy being reduced is another reason of why even bother getting the vaccine if they A. Only last 8 months at the most B. Are not effective against certain/new strains C. 3rd jab may cause more side-effects. D. Pharma companies are unethically raising the prices which shows this is just a new product line for them
As soon as the announcement was made I had two recruiters calling me for potential employment. I'll likely be fine no matter what happens and with the job market the way it is, I'm looking at anywhere from 20-50% raise anyway. So why bother working for a company that is pushing an unethical agenda. Even if the next job forces the jab, at least I can get the Novavax written in as my stipulation with a nice raise.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I have been reading about Novavax and that is the one I'll take if required by my work. Wish they'd hurry the fuk up with it though. Is it still looking like October availability? No mandates for me yet, and not sure if it will happen, but Novavax will be the ONLY "traditional" vaccine available in the US.
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1645341213]Would you walk out if forced to vax?
I read yesterday that one area isn't accepting the religious exemption, I forget what the, state, organization or what business it was.[/QUOTE]
Second largest HCO in my area just announced no exemptions. Unvaxxedcels heading to the unemployment line.
[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1645341503]That is really fast!
I have heard nada about DC and Maryland starting the process. Are you still in VA?[/QUOTE]
You can register for it in CVS - I am in VA and it’s available in MD, DC and VA
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1645344073]Thanks for the response, I hope it doesn't come down to being mandatory for you, I know your stance on the issue. No one should be forced imo.
I am fully vaxed by choice, not sure how I would handle being forced, I am a vet so I had many mandatory vaccinations but this one is different being experimental and all. If forced I am probably stubborn enough to walk and regret it later lol[/QUOTE]
I am veteran too. OEF as well. So I've had a lot of vaccines, more so than the avg person by far. But those are all tried and true. I volunteered to do whatever was necessary, including any vaccines. I'm not sure how I would feel being enlisted now with a forced vax that is, imo, still experimental. Not to mention horror stories in the fam of people dropping dead and weird side effects including tumors and migraines.
They state, "will be subject to corrective action, up to and including termination of employment." Termination date is set for Oct. So I have some time to think it over for the J&J. Even if I cave and get vaxxed, I will more than likely leave for ethical reasons at some point. I could go on and on about their ethical practices...like not promoting a healthy lifestyle or pointing out the fact that an unhealthy lifestyle poses risks, especially regarding covid-19.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1645344743]Yeah I have been reading about Novavax and that is the one I'll take if required by my work. Wish they'd hurry the fuk up with it though. Is it still looking like October availability? No mandates for me yet, and not sure if it will happen, but Novavax will be the ONLY "traditional" vaccine available in the US.[/QUOTE]
Novavax phase 3 trials have been completed for some time. They expected a Q2 EUA, CFO has been fired since. I think they're having some manufacturing issues, now just getting the EUA approved through the FDA? Q4 is the current estimate.
[QUOTE=lotusdeva;1645345023]You can register for it in CVS - I am in VA and it’s available in MD, DC and VA[/QUOTE]
Ok TY
[img]https://i.imgur.com/kWJqUGe.png[/img]
Gonna be mandatory at work after FDA approval goes through next week.
Cliffs on legal options??????
[url]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57774294[/url]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ysNaPG0.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=lotusdeva;1645339843]can't wait to get a booster. It is available now and I know many people got it already, as nobody is checking if you are immunocompromised or not. But I feel guilty doing that, so will wait for my turn :)[/QUOTE]
Don't we need to wait for 8 months after the second before getting the booster?
[QUOTE=BK909;1645412253]Gonna be mandatory at work after FDA approval goes through next week.
Cliffs on legal options??????[/QUOTE]
EEOC has clarified that employers may mandate a vaccine for all employees who come into the physical location.
[url]https://www.eeoc.gov/newsroom/eeoc-issues-updated-covid-19-technical-assistance[/url]
You can be fired, and still not be eligible for unemployment.
And If I were to place a bet, I'd put my money on the state/employer agreeing that your refusing to take a job which your qualified for in this situation.
[QUOTE=mgftp;1645344983]Second largest HCO in my area just announced no exemptions. Unvaxxedcels heading to the unemployment line.[/QUOTE]
That’s what I like to hear.
[QUOTE=Reliance012;1645413953]That’s what I like to hear.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it seems like very good science to get rid of medical staff while cases are increasing if they don’t take an experimental vaccine that is demonstrating it is ineffective. I mean what could go wrong lol.
None of this will matter when they roll out the carbon passports. Like the head of the WHO said, there's no vaccine for carbon emissions.
[QUOTE=7Seconds;1645413723]EEOC has clarified that employers may mandate a vaccine for all employees who come into the physical location.
[url]https://www.eeoc.gov/newsroom/eeoc-issues-updated-covid-19-technical-assistance[/url]
You can be fired, and still not be eligible for unemployment.
And If I were to place a bet, I'd put my money on the state/employer agreeing that your refusing to take a job which your qualified for in this situation.[/QUOTE]
Preemployment requirement is understandable but this is completely expected from the government.
Mandatory abortions next?
[QUOTE=BK909;1645420483]Preemployment requirement is understandable but this is completely expected from the government.
Mandatory abortions next?[/QUOTE]
The government isn’t forcing you to get the vaccine. It is allowing private entities to decide on requiring it. State governments forcing businesses to not require them of their employees is authoritarian.
[QUOTE=mtpockets;1645257403]An Alabama doctor watched patients reject coronavirus vaccine; now he’s refusing to treat them[/QUOTE]
Imagine if police decided to not protect BLM protesters for the same reasoning.
The tears would be immense.
[YouTube]t4VnlXIiSeY[/YouTube]
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1645344743]Yeah I have been reading about Novavax and that is the one I'll take if required by my work. Wish they'd hurry the fuk up with it though. Is it still looking like October availability? No mandates for me yet, and not sure if it will happen, but Novavax will be the ONLY "traditional" vaccine available in the US.[/QUOTE]Novavax. I will study into this.
In another post you outlined the changing efficacy rates for the shots already given. As you know, this is one of the numerous changes that are being discovered every few months, if you do the research. What other informational changes are to come about the shots and what they do for/to you? I don't know. I have only thoughts and then some speculation. We won't have a legitimate handle on these changes for another decade or so
If they force an intracountry shot(s) order for air travel, I may then be forced to get the shots. That makes me sick. That will make me not recognize my Country. WWJD??? (What Would Jefferson DO?) If the morbidity rates for this virus, and it's variants, rises enough (God forbid), I will make the personal choice to get the shots. I will accept that situation. Bad situation. Personal choice.
In this Country, I shouldn't have being ordered by the government, if I want to fly in this Country, hanging over my head.
[QUOTE=KeepItMoving;1645440493]Novavax. I will study into this.
In another post you outlined the changing efficacy rates for the shots already given. As you know, this is one of the numerous changes that are being discovered every few months, if you do the research. What other informational changes are to come about the shots and what they do for/to you? I don't know. I have only thoughts and then some speculation. We won't have a legitimate handle on these changes for another decade or so
If they force an intracountry shot(s) order for air travel, I may then be forced to get the shots. That makes me sick. That will make me not recognize my Country. WWJD??? (What Would Jefferson DO?) If the morbidity rates for this virus, and it's variants, rises enough (God forbid), I will make the personal choice to get the shots. I will accept that situation. Bad situation. Personal choice.
In this Country, I shouldn't have being ordered by the government, if I want to fly in this Country, hanging over my head.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%. Should be a personal choice rather than a mandate. Personally think people who believe in mandates should be rounded up and deported to North Korea if they want to live in an authoritarian dictatorship. The fact that the CDC refuses to track breakthrough infections unless they die or need advanced care says a lot.
[url]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jesse-jackson-and-wife-hospitalized-with-covid-19/ar-AANAiq6?li=BBnb7Kz[/url]
Jesse Jackson and his wife hospitalized for covid. Both fully vaccinated.
Waiting to still see the claims come true that healthy people were falling dead walking down the street…
So much mis-information and ever changing and negating “confirmed information” I now have a truly different very skeptical mindset compared to pre-covid times
[img]https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/238829580_383045846513407_8151942966998925547_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_D0F9Q-YChYAX-2-Iqy&tn=0ST6R4WqlOPL9IYU&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=c1a2e0a202291e8c86fd88cee2c67377&oe=614652B6[/img]
[QUOTE=TryingBB;1645448263]Waiting to still see the claims come true that healthy people were falling dead walking down the street…
So much mis-information and ever changing and negating “confirmed information” I now have a truly different very skeptical mindset compared to pre-covid times[/QUOTE]
Well this guy wasn't walking down the street but he gone.
[url]https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/conservative-talk-show-host-phil-valentine-dies-covid-19/index.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1645447983]I agree 100%. Should be a personal choice rather than a mandate. Personally think people who believe in mandates should be rounded up and deported to North Korea if they want to live in an authoritarian dictatorship. The fact that the CDC refuses to track breakthrough infections unless they die or need advanced care says a lot.
[/QUOTE]
Toss in to the roundup the people who want to dictate to private businesses what they can do.
As for tracking ya it's been a real clusterfuk. This person makes a good case as to the cause of that :
[url]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/covid-19-surge-why-we-need-more-data-on-breakthrough-infections[/url]
[quote]But at this point, one of the biggest issues that we saw throughout the pandemic was the lack of data infrastructure and even systems that can collect this data and speak to each other so that we can have a kind of broad understanding of what's happening. If you look back at how states were tasked with collecting COVID-19 data, they all kind of had to fend for themselves. They all had different systems of reporting. They all had different dashboards with different formats. So we're dealing with once again between vaccine data and breakthrough data, very, very disparate systems of data collection and data reporting.[/quote]
So my ignorant mind thinks maybe we need an overall of our entire system of tracking, a national standard, and not leaving states to fend for themselves. Some states underreport, some overreport and for what? We ALL know for what and we ALL should hold them ALL accountable.
Damn Goat man has infected my mind :D
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1645473473]Toss in to the roundup the people who want to dictate to private businesses what they can do.
As for tracking ya it's been a real clusterfuk. This person makes a good case as to the cause of that :
[url]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/covid-19-surge-why-we-need-more-data-on-breakthrough-infections[/url]
So my ignorant mind thinks maybe we need an overall of our entire system of tracking, a national standard, and not leaving states to fend for themselves. Some states underreport, some overreport and for what? We ALL know for what and we ALL should hold them ALL accountable.
Damn Goat man has infected my mind :D[/QUOTE]
Yep and there are already MANY diseases with mandatory reporting, these reporting systems have been in-place for decades, but somehow the CDC can’t add a disease and a protocol for reporting. I don’t believe the vaccine was made for nefarious purposes, just that it’s not without risk, the decision should be up to people. If Business want to have mask mandates or direct their staff to be vaccinated without being forced by the government, I’m fine with that too.
[QUOTE=Jtbny;1645473043]Well this guy wasn't walking down the street but he gone.
[url]https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/conservative-talk-show-host-phil-valentine-dies-covid-19/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
He battled it for 1 month. That’s not what I’m talking about.
Im talking about claims that there were people in China or Italy or Spain or somewhere who were fine and healthy, no covid or flu symptoms and walking down the street and instantaneously died drop dead. From healthy Alive —-> dead within seconds.
I believe virus is real, also believe vaccine helps MOST and I’m vaxxed and still keep my mask on when I know I will be around people who will get within 6 feeet from me (except restaurants - still dining out several times a week)
[QUOTE=TryingBB;1645475213]He battled it for 1 month. That’s not what I’m talking about.
Im talking about claims that there were people in China or Italy or Spain or somewhere who were fine and healthy, no covid or flu symptoms and walking down the street and instantaneously died drop dead. From healthy Alive —-> dead within seconds.
I believe virus is real, also believe vaccine helps MOST and I’m vaxxed and still keep my mask on when I know I will be around people who will get within 6 feeet from me (except restaurants - still dining out several times a week)[/QUOTE]
No that was the Stephen King novel "The Stand".
[QUOTE=Reliance012;1645413953]That’s what I like to hear.[/QUOTE]
srs? man youre crazy
[QUOTE=Mark1T;1645364543][img]https://i.imgur.com/kWJqUGe.png[/img][/QUOTE]
was about to say thank god i dont live in a blue state, then i remembered i do
For anyone interested, this is a cool study. First of its kind that I’m aware of. Shows that vaccination induces acutely higher levels of antibodies than infection (we knew this) but that they wane more quickly than those generated by infection. Six months after infection, 10% had antibodies below seropositive threshold while six months after vaccination, it was 16%. Has not been peer reviewed.
[url]https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262111v1[/url]
Thanks!^^^
I guess we should rename this thread......Will you get Boosted? :)
So we looked last night for appointments for the 2 compromised folks in my family and all the major drugstores and supermarkets have walk ins or appointments available.