[QUOTE=supramax;1647708403]Do you have compromised immunity, too?[/QUOTE]
No.
Edit: checked the CDC site and age alone does not
qualify me for a booster shot yet. I'll wait.
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[QUOTE=supramax;1647708403]Do you have compromised immunity, too?[/QUOTE]
No.
Edit: checked the CDC site and age alone does not
qualify me for a booster shot yet. I'll wait.
[QUOTE=ljimd;1647708983]No.[/QUOTE]
I just found out that I do because I had a splenectomy when I was eight. Damn! :(
[QUOTE=MuscleXtreme;1647704683]It’s is completely dumb as I explained above.
Anyone who jumps on a drug that has been pushed through in less than a year is a complete moron.
I’m going to be laughing when the corona shots end up getting Chantixed, Rezulin’d, or DES’d.
Just imagine going from no chance of myocarditis to injecting yourself with a concoction with no long term studies performed and increasing your odds of getting myocarditis. Only a fool would think that’s a good deal, especially for someone in my age group, and with my health.[/QUOTE]
It's not completely dumb. In fact I'd argue it's kinda dumb not to get the vaccine in the case of those who haven't gotten natural antibodies. And even for that group some data would suggest vaccinating provides extra protection.
The statement [i]"Anyone who jumps on a drug that has been pushed through in less than a year is a complete moron."[/i] is a bit troubling since that is the overwhelming majority of medicine available. Most phase 3 clinical trials last days, weeks, or months for the longer ones I have seen. Not sure if JustDad could guess an average but it is standard procedure to approve drugs based upon data from short term clinical trials. So I hope you have had the same views on other medications and the people taking them, not just the Covid vaccine. Are you essentially against the use of all medication? What are your parameters where you individually consider a medicine safe to take? I assume you have taken some sort of medicine in your life, or no?
Your point about AE risk for someone with natural acquired antibodies is a good topic though. As far as I know there is no data that exists examining AEs from natural exposure antibodies and repeat infection. All of the large data sets I have seen are Covid infection as a whole.
[QUOTE=MuscleXtreme;1647704683]
a concoction with no long term studies performed and increasing your odds of getting myocarditis. [/QUOTE]
Guess you aren't familiar with how vaccine trials are run or the actual data. It's been covered here, and if you hadn't already had COVID, I might explain those things again. No reason to in this case. Just glad you're happy with your choices and doing well.
MGFTP,
Most of the phase 3 studies actually last several months to several years. Vaccine trials are different. We've never found a long term adverse reaction that wasn't detectable in the first few weeks or a couple of months at the most. I'd have to check on the longest. With vaccine trials, they're shortish, but usually take years because we have trouble enrolling. Can explain more later.
gotta run, wife says we're going out for dinner :)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/mriW0gP.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1647710533]Guess you aren't familiar with how vaccine trials are run or the actual data. It's been covered here, and if you hadn't already had COVID, I might explain those things again. No reason to in this case. Just glad you're happy with your choices and doing well.
MGFTP,
Most of the phase 3 studies actually last several months to several years. Vaccine trials are different. We've never found a long term adverse reaction that wasn't detectable in the first few weeks or a couple of months at the most. I'd have to check on the longest. With vaccine trials, they're shortish, but usually take years because we have trouble enrolling. Can explain more later.
gotta run, wife says we're going out for dinner :)[/QUOTE]
I'd love to hear more of your take. The one HCO I work with that does trials rarely have ones that last months, even the few PIs I have looked at are typically in the 4-12 week range. I'd assume your sample size is larger than mine given your work. What recent meds have had phase 3 trials that last years? I am assuming disease states I am not much familiar with.
Edit: So I just saw a drug ad well outside of the disease states I am familiar with and thought of your post so I clicked jn. Wynzora for psoriasis, 8 week clinical trials from my quick look at the PI.
well chit, I certainly trust all those tests now..
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4U2ZO5ekoE&t=9s[/url]
in other news....Norway reclassifies Covid-19. Could we be seeing a shift?
Covid-19 is treated in the mass media as a very dangerous disease in the face of which mass vaccination and severe restrictions for the whole society are applauded despite few deaths beyond the risk groups. But in Norway, it has now been decided to treat it like other respiratory diseases, such as influenza or the cold virus, because according to the Norwegian Institute of Public Health it is no longer more dangerous than these.
Just as we always said..it's just the flu
[QUOTE=mgftp;1647712443]I'd love to hear more of your take. The one HCO I work with that does trials rarely have ones that last months, even the few PIs I have looked at are typically in the 4-12 week range. I'd assume your sample size is larger than mine given your work. What recent meds have had phase 3 trials that last years? I am assuming disease states I am not much familiar with.[/QUOTE]
It depends on what you are treating, right? Most oncology trials will go for years, my current NASH trial is on year 6 and may go longer. Those are studies on a chronic illness or where you need long term data on both efficacy and safety. you'll also have variations in the screening, run in, and follow up periods. Trials on antibiotics may only take days to weeks for the dosing period but would then have at post dose follow up. They'll be much shorter than a trial on a chronic use antihypertensive medication or a psychotropic medication.
With a vaccine, you have a certain amount of time during which you prove efficacy and then a safety follow-up. I looked up the durations before, and IIRC, to get full approval you need an average of 6 months safety follow-up, and you'll be tracking your efficacy during that time too. A lot of these details can also be tailored based on what you're trying to protect against. You might require several years follow up on efficacy if you're looking to vaccinate someone against shingles and think they're only going to need a shot once every 10 years.
Clearly the EMA and FDA didn't require that long-term efficacy data for the covid vaccines, because we were having a pandemic.
The reality is that what usually slows vaccine approvals is trial enrollment. Usually. NOT this time! We got thousands and thousands of people who wanted to enroll on day one. Probably all Democrats who listened to CNN and thought they had a 50% chance of dying. Personally, I think the conservatives and Republicans should be very thankful all those liberals were willing to take one for the team ;-)
Obviously another factor that scared a lot of people was that we did get to use these vaccines before we had enough follow-up for full approval. It's understandable that some people were worried about them, and I think they were reasonable in being concerned. I'm in a position that lets me know more about the vaccines than 99.99% of the population, maybe more than 99.999% since my company has conducted them. I knew exactly what was in them and I didn't expect them to be as benign as they have been. I wasn't anticipating any really bad outcomes, but I would have predicted a few more have adverse reactions, at least allergic ones. But we didn't get them. the safety profile, especially compared to the virus, has been pretty amazing. chalk it up as a win for science and medical progress.
Sadly, this is political now and there's very little we'll be able to do to change people's opinions. As you can tell from my recent posts, however, I'm not worried about that. 60 or 70% of the population is vaccinated, another 10% have had confirmed infections, probably half or more of the remaining population has had asymptomatic cases, so we're reaching a point where there aren't a lot of completely naive patients. We may need booster shots at some point or a shot with spike protein epitopes that match the Delta variant, but we're heading in the right direction.
I think it's time to start being really generous with this stuff and shipping vaccines to any place that has the ability to store it and administer it. Keep some Moderna stuff for booster shots though, because I want to try something different next time. I told you before man, I really want Wolverine's healing factor and those Pfizer nanites have completely let me down!
(dictated on my phone, fixed some typos, I apologize for the rest)
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1647720923]It depends on what you are treating, right? Most oncology trials will go for years, my current NASH trial is on year 6 and may go longer. Those are studies on a chronic illness or where you need long term data on both efficacy and safety. you'll also have variations in the screening, run in, and follow up periods. Trials on antibiotics may only take days to weeks for the dosing period but would then have at post dose follow up. They'll be much shorter than a trial on a chronic use antihypertensive medication or a psychotropic medication.
With a vaccine, you have a certain amount of time during which you prove efficacy and then a safety follow-up. I looked up the durations before, and IIRC, to get full approval you need an average of 6 months safety follow-up, and you'll be tracking your efficacy during that time too. A lot of these details can also be tailored based on what you're trying to protect against. You might require several years follow up on efficacy if you're looking to vaccinate someone against shingles and think they're only going to need a shot once every 10 years.
Clearly the EMA and FDA didn't require that long-term efficacy data for the covid vaccines, because we were having a pandemic.
The reality is that what usually slows vaccine approvals is trial enrollment. Usually. NOT this time! We got thousands and thousands of people who wanted to enroll on day one. Probably all Democrats who listened to CNN and thought they had a 50% chance of dying. Personally, I think the conservatives and Republicans should be very thankful all those liberals were willing to take one for the team ;-)
Obviously another factor that scared a lot of people was that we did get to use these vaccines before we had enough follow-up for full approval. It's understandable that some people were worried about them, and I think they were reasonable in being concerned. I'm in a position that lets me know more about the vaccines than 99.99% of the population, maybe more than 99.999% since my company has conducted them. I knew exactly what was in them and I didn't expect them to be as benign as they have been. I wasn't anticipating any really bad outcomes, but I would have predicted a few more have adverse reactions, at least allergic ones. But we didn't get them. the safety profile, especially compared to the virus, has been pretty amazing. chalk it up as a win for science and medical progress.
Sadly, this is political now and there's very little we'll be able to do to change people's opinions. As you can tell from my recent posts, however, I'm not worried about that. 60 or 70% of the population is vaccinated, another 10% have had confirmed infections, probably half or more of the remaining population has had asymptomatic cases, so we're reaching a point where there aren't a lot of completely naive patients. We may need booster shots at some point or a shot with spike protein epitopes that match the Delta variant, but we're heading in the right direction.
I think it's time to start being really generous with this stuff and shipping vaccines to any place that has the ability to store it and administer it. Keep some Moderna stuff for booster shots though, because I want to try something different next time. I told you before man, I really want Wolverine's healing factor and those Pfizer nanites have completely let me down!
(dictated on my phone, fixed some typos, I apologize for the rest)[/QUOTE]
How was dinner?
[QUOTE=7Seconds;1647721153]How was dinner?[/QUOTE]
Weird, but good. chicken pepperoni tomato spinach ricotta and other stuff on a pizza.
also, Holy Cr@p my last post was long!
I should avoid dictating while watching K-dramas on netflix!
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1647720923]It depends on what you are treating, right? Most oncology trials will go for years, my current NASH trial is on year 6 and may go longer. Those are studies on a chronic illness or where you need long term data on both efficacy and safety. you'll also have variations in the screening, run in, and follow up periods. Trials on antibiotics may only take days to weeks for the dosing period but would then have at post dose follow up. They'll be much shorter than a trial on a chronic use antihypertensive medication or a psychotropic medication.
With a vaccine, you have a certain amount of time during which you prove efficacy and then a safety follow-up. I looked up the durations before, and IIRC, to get full approval you need an average of 6 months safety follow-up, and you'll be tracking your efficacy during that time too. A lot of these details can also be tailored based on what you're trying to protect against. You might require several years follow up on efficacy if you're looking to vaccinate someone against shingles and think they're only going to need a shot once every 10 years.
Clearly the EMA and FDA didn't require that long-term efficacy data for the covid vaccines, because we were having a pandemic.
The reality is that what usually slows vaccine approvals is trial enrollment. Usually. NOT this time! We got thousands and thousands of people who wanted to enroll on day one. Probably all Democrats who listened to CNN and thought they had a 50% chance of dying. Personally, I think the conservatives and Republicans should be very thankful all those liberals were willing to take one for the team ;-)
Obviously another factor that scared a lot of people was that we did get to use these vaccines before we had enough follow-up for full approval. It's understandable that some people were worried about them, and I think they were reasonable in being concerned. I'm in a position that lets me know more about the vaccines than 99.99% of the population, maybe more than 99.999% since my company has conducted them. I knew exactly what was in them and I didn't expect them to be as benign as they have been. I wasn't anticipating any really bad outcomes, but I would have predicted a few more have adverse reactions, at least allergic ones. But we didn't get them. the safety profile, especially compared to the virus, has been pretty amazing. chalk it up as a win for science and medical progress.
Sadly, this is political now and there's very little we'll be able to do to change people's opinions. As you can tell from my recent posts, however, I'm not worried about that. 60 or 70% of the population is vaccinated, another 10% have had confirmed infections, probably half or more of the remaining population has had asymptomatic cases, so we're reaching a point where there aren't a lot of completely naive patients. We may need booster shots at some point or a shot with spike protein epitopes that match the Delta variant, but we're heading in the right direction.
I think it's time to start being really generous with this stuff and shipping vaccines to any place that has the ability to store it and administer it. Keep some Moderna stuff for booster shots though, because I want to try something different next time. I told you before man, I really want Wolverine's healing factor and those Pfizer nanites have completely let me down!
(dictated on my phone, fixed some typos, I apologize for the rest)[/QUOTE]
Well of course, I guess I don't often think of chronic illness as it's not the world of healthcare I am around too much in terms of medication, professionally and personally. Am I wrong in thinking there are more meds for acute treatment than chronic though?
All good info on vaccines. I haven't seen many vaccine trials run but we actually were a site for Covid here. Although at that point I was strictly work from home and wasn't in the facility at all to chit chat with the people smarter than me about it. However, the 6 month thing is what I heard is the main data point difference where time was allowed to be shortened for EUA in comparison to FDA approval. Which from what you talk about probably of later term AEs with vaccines really not a big deal, and in my mind insignificant now that those extensions have been run to collect data and we have full FDA approval. I assume you just shake your head when you read or hear someone say something along the lines that the vaccines are unsafe because they were rushed?
[img]https://i.imgur.com/myQOu3F.jpg?1[/img]
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1647704563]I'm looking, but besides that then there chance of "contracting" a side effect, and of course the complete shift from an age group to the post covid group, I think I'm missing it too. Although getting it for his age group and zero percent chance.
Will look again later. I'm accepting this as a grammar challenge.[/QUOTE]
What are your thoughts on the CDC not heeding the FDA advice on boosters? That seems rather odd. I agree with boosters for high risk if they help, but isn’t that what the FDA was supposed to determine through research and the CDC recommended strategies aligned with the findings? The science is really getting strange now.
[QUOTE=supramax;1647707543]I've heard that the unvaxxed are the cause of the mutations.[/QUOTE]
Mutations happen all the time, in any infected person. They are random transcription errors. Variants that are able to evade the vaccine likely come from infected vaccinated people since that genetic trait would exploit a niche and improve the chances of survival of the virus. It’s evolution.
[QUOTE=ljimd;1647708983]No.
Edit: checked the CDC site and age alone does not
qualify me for a booster shot yet. I'll wait.[/QUOTE]
I think they will be available here for 65+ 6 months after 2nd dose (Pfizer).
[QUOTE=ljimd;1647706633]3rd. I guess that booster shots may not be available this soon after the OK.[/QUOTE]
It depends where you live.
About a month ago a member here told me that she knew folks that got in in the DC MD VA area, so i told a friend and she went and got it.
Moderna was used, but t he list of conditions was very specific.
[url]www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1647741753]I think they will be available here for 65+ 6 months after 2nd dose (Pfizer).[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I have another month
before I hit 6mos post Pfizer #2. Guess i'll wait and watch.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1647741423]What are your thoughts on the CDC not heeding the FDA advice on boosters? That seems rather odd. I agree with boosters for high risk [b]if they help[/b], but isn’t that what the FDA was supposed to determine through research and the CDC recommended strategies aligned with the findings? The science is really getting strange now.[/QUOTE]
I really seriously think they need to hold all public facts the way they are, publish one final set of results and recommendations based on CURRENT RESEARCH.
Then shut the fuk up for a few months or maybe a year or more. Study this chit hard. And come out with solid results.
This going back and forth, changing information and recommendation, political leg pulling is really fuking with people and their sanity and in the process they are loosing credibility.
Enough of this chit man. I’ve gotten so numb I really don’t even pay attention to covid news. Vaccine done, keep the mask up in public places. Eat out two to three times a week (mask off at table while eating).
Like seriously, SHUT THE FUKING FUK UP!!
[QUOTE=TryingBB;1647742973]I really seriously think they need to hold all public facts the way they are, publish one final set of results and recommendations based on CURRENT RESEARCH.
Then shut the fuk up for a few months or maybe a year or more. Study this chit hard. And come out with solid results.
This going back and forth, changing information and recommendation, political leg pulling is really fuking with people and their sanity and in the process they are loosing credibility.
Enough of this chit man. I’ve gotten so numb I really don’t even pay attention to covid news. Vaccine done, keep the mask up in public places. Eat out two to three times a week (mask off at table while eating).
Like seriously, SHUT THE FUKING FUK UP!![/QUOTE]
Well it’s government, and if there’s one thing government is proficient at, it is fuking up everything they touch.
[QUOTE=ljimd;1647742493]Yeah, that's what I thought too. I have another month
before I hit 6mos post Pfizer #2. Guess i'll wait and watch.[/QUOTE]
If you are really concerned you could get an antibody test to determine if you still have antibodies, and if not just go to a vaccine site and pretend you are unvaccinated and get a dose. It’s the same stuff.
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1647743533]If you are really concerned you could get an antibody test to determine if you still have antibodies, and if not just go to a vaccine site and pretend you are unvaccinated and get a dose. It’s the same stuff.[/QUOTE]
You can't do that in this neck of the woods. For the first dose, you can only make an appointment online and you have to show up for the appointment with your medicare card. Then, you get a signed, dated and stamped card proving you had the first shot and giving the date of your second shot (which you could change online via the new protocols). For that, you gotta bring the aforementioned. For the third shot, if you're eligible, you have to repeat the process. Under those conditions. it's difficult to forge a passport. Forgeries are fined big time.
[QUOTE=supramax;1647745443]You can't do that in this neck of the woods. For the first dose, you can only make an appointment online and you have to show up for the appointment with your medicare card. Then, you get a signed, dated and stamped card proving you had the first shot and giving the date of your second shot (which you could change online via the new protocols). For that, you gotta bring the aforementioned. For the third shot, if you're eligible, you have to repeat the process. Under those conditions. it's difficult to forge a passport. Forgeries are fined big time.[/QUOTE]
You in Canada? It’s not that controlled here. Walk-in appointments at about every Walgreens CVS etc. they don’t give a $hit, if you walk in and want the vaccine, they’ll give it to you.
I have friends in Europe explaining the situation there but this map is really quite good and detailed.
[url]https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3a056fc8839d47969ef59949e9984a71[/url]
Nah we made it along just fine the first 299,800 years of our existence. If I die I die.
[QUOTE=Pterodactyl314;1647760423]Nah we made it along just fine the first 299,800 years of our existence. If I die I die.[/QUOTE]
so in all those 299,800 years you have never had a single vaccine?
[QUOTE=Plateauplower;1647752003]You in Canada? It’s not that controlled here. Walk-in appointments at about every Walgreens CVS etc. they don’t give a $hit, if you walk in and want the vaccine, they’ll give it to you.[/QUOTE]
They do check IDs and take information down (to get reimbursed by the govt I’m sure and track it too)
[QUOTE=TryingBB;1647762843]They do check IDs and take information down (to get reimbursed by the govt I’m sure and track it too)[/QUOTE]
No they don’t. I got JJ in CVS in March and Moderna in the same CVS this month. Nobody asked for id.
[QUOTE=TryingBB;1647762843]They do check IDs and take information down (to get reimbursed by the govt I’m sure and track it too)[/QUOTE]
Not sure if that is digitized and available across the US. It should be, but it just seems unlikely considering the amount of data entry.
[QUOTE=lotusdeva;1647763613]No they don’t. I got JJ in CVS in March and Moderna in the same CVS this month. Nobody asked for id.[/QUOTE]
Oh I remember you did the vaccine cocktail. Remind me again - why?
[QUOTE=lotusdeva;1647763613]No they don’t. I got JJ in CVS in March and Moderna in the same CVS this month. Nobody asked for id.[/QUOTE]
You should go for the trifecta and get a Pfizer for good measure. Do it for science. Might turn into batwoman or something :p