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[QUOTE=gym62richard;1639475173]Thank you, my mother was elderly, but was extremely well until she contracted the virus. I'm also sorry for your loss, unless you've suffered the loss of a loved one you don't really appreciate how other bereaved families are feeling. For me at least up until my mother lost her fight with covid the toll on families that had suffered a loss was merely a set of statistics, Sadly I was to be enlightened.[/QUOTE]
Well sorry, but my grand pop died during all this too, the guy was in excellent health, worked a physical job into his late 80s he caught another virus the previous year and slowly died from it, one day he was fine, the next he was in a hospital for half a year, then had a home nurse for the other half while he was whithering away............
Biden can kiss my azz with his empty chairs campaign.
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639478033]Shutdown?
Some people want to think the earth is flat too. Interesting world.[/QUOTE]
Lockdown/shutdown, you and Ben can continue to go 69 azz munch each other.........
Ben was out protesting a year ago............
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639478233]Well sorry, but my grand pop died during all this too, the guy was in excellent health, worked a physical job into his late 80s he caught another virus the previous year and slowly died from it, one day he was fine, the next he was in a hospital for half a year, then had a home nurse for the other half while he was whithering away............
Biden can kiss my azz with his empty chairs campaign.[/QUOTE]
Kool Story Bro!
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639474243]The NY hospital system was on the brink of collapse if hospitalizations kept increasing as they were and the ship was there as backup. The shutdown which it appears you are saying shouldn't have happened is what saved NY from from needing the ship and becoming Italy or India at it's worst.[/QUOTE]
Umm..no, those TikTok dance videos were coming out of NY hospitals as well..& those shut downs did not prove to save a single life..nor did the masks.
As far as Italy..again..not quite..
[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wuFazgpc4&list=FLSufaYqUYzQ032aVfRijWFw&index=4[/url]
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[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639476733]If only we could get a " fit healthy population" overnight with a pandemic with little to no warning.
Are we 1991?
Any day now Americans will get fit...........
[youtube]mBz_j9EhvOo[/youtube][/QUOTE]
A pandemic? Just lol. There is no such thing as an asymptomatic Pandemic. When someone is sick, it is not a symptomatic, meaning without symptoms. A person with symptoms the temperature will normally increase or generally feel unwell. A Pandemic has sick people dying in the streets. This has never been seen with this “pandemic”..never once. Dead bodies carried out of homes as what happened during the Black Plague. The Black Plague was caused by no acces to clean water..now who else did I say has no/little access to clean water?
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[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639479423]Umm..no, those TikTok dance videos were coming out of NY hospitals as well..& those shut downs did not prove to save a single life..nor did the masks.
As far as Italy..again..not quite..
[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wuFazgpc4&list=FLSufaYqUYzQ032aVfRijWFw&index=4[/url][/QUOTE]
[Img]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DazzlingPeriodicGnatcatcher-size_restricted.gif[/img]
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[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639478553]Kool Story Bro![/QUOTE]
Going there?
I’ve heard plenty from you, how’s Aunt doing?
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639480113][Img]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DazzlingPeriodicGnatcatcher-size_restricted.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
I know, facts can be a bitch to deal with sometimes..huh?
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[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639480843]I know, facts can be a bitch to deal with sometimes..huh?[/QUOTE]
I must have missed the facts.
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639481223]I must have missed the facts.[/QUOTE]
Death rate by age group:
0-19yrs is 0.00003
20-39yrs is 0.0002
40-59yrs is 0.005
70+ yrs is 0.054
Ouch
Quite the Pandemic. I remember all those months that I never stopped working only to see people dropping in the streets...
Oh wait..
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[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639479913]A pandemic? Just lol. There is no such thing as an asymptomatic Pandemic. When someone is sick, it is not a symptomatic, meaning without symptoms. A person with symptoms the temperature will normally increase or generally feel unwell. A Pandemic has sick people dying in the streets. This has never been seen with this “pandemic”..never once. Dead bodies carried out of homes as what happened during the Black Plague. The Black Plague was caused by no acces to clean water..now who else did I say has no/little access to clean water?[/QUOTE]
So why would we need to lose weight, suddenly....... in 2020?
If there is no such thing, and obesity isn't an issue, why not let fat people be fat.
We have been trying since 91( see above Arnold video) and it Ain't workin.....
Your quote
"We locked down because we have a widely obese and unhealthy population due to diet and lack of exercise"
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639480753]Going there?
I’ve heard plenty from you, how’s Aunt doing?[/QUOTE]
Listen here Rachael Maddow,
i am not following your logic or premise
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[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639483073]So why would we need to lose weight, suddenly....... in 2020?
If there is no such thing, and obesity isn't an issue, why not let fat people be fat.
We have been trying since 91( see above Arnold video) and it Ain't workin.....[/QUOTE]
Oh, Obesity is a problem now?
I guess you skipped on the free Krispy Kreame donut with your jab ...huh?
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[QUOTE=x-trainer ben;1639483163]Listen here Rachael Maddow,
i am not following your logic or premise[/QUOTE]
Keep your boyfriend Maddow out of it!
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[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639481483]Death rate by age group:
0-19yrs is 0.00003
20-39yrs is 0.0002
40-59yrs is 0.005
70+ yrs is 0.054
Ouch
Quite the Pandemic. I remember all those months that I never stopped working only to see people dropping in the streets...
Oh wait..[/QUOTE]
My first few results on Google are very different (and different from each other). You are clearly cherry picking data to support what you want to believe. Not exactly my definition of facts.
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639486793]My first few results on Google are very different (and different from each other). You are clearly cherry picking data to support what you want to believe. Not exactly my definition of facts.[/QUOTE]
When I put on my tin foil hat, my logic would say, that's by design. Just lol at using Google to find resources. Been proven time and time again that they manipulate search results and censor them.
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US, 33million cases, 1/2 million deaths so 1 person in 66 died??
OK, just for sh!ts and giggles, let's say every single person in US had the virus and most didn't realize, so 333Million and 1/2M died so 1/666 that is still a 0.15% death rate
No matter how I play with numbers I can't get to your figures Paul, where did they come from?
Edit: Quite possibly I messed up the Math (I do that more often than I'd like to admit) so if I've gone nuts there please jump on that
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[QUOTE=Paul Kreul;1639483263]Oh, Obesity is a problem now?
I guess you skipped on the free Krispy Kreame donut with your jab ...huh?[/QUOTE]
Never for me but i have been into sports and fitness since my dad got me into this at 13/14.
The cross training, with a bunch of other sports was natural because i was good at them.
I guess i was trying to understand how the "fat public" would suddenly get in shape fast in the middle of a crisis/pandemic/lockdown/insert..... any name Paul feels most comfortable with?
Yeah i said suddenly, with no warning it was coming; people barely know how to eat intelligently.
Whatever you want to label this period from Feb 2020 to now, no one is dropping weight quickly and suddenly getting fit.
That was the takeaway message.
i don't eat krispy creme, it isn't local and eating air bread isn't satisfying
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639486793]My first few results on Google are very different (and different from each other). You are clearly cherry picking data to support what you want to believe. Not exactly my definition of facts.[/QUOTE]
Psst same with flu date year over year; you were warned......
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[QUOTE=_zman;1639487783]When I put on my tin foil hat, my logic would say, that's by design. Just lol at using Google to find resources. Been proven time and time again that they manipulate search results and censor them.[/QUOTE]
I think there are plenty of people in this world that don't cherry pick varied statistics just to try and prove a point. Bias is by design, but to deliberately censor reality to further your own narrative isn't.
If you don't use Google what do you use? Obviously Google yields results of very varied quality but how are you finding resources without an internet search engine in 2021?
[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1639488423]US, 33million cases, 1/2 million deaths so 1 person in 66 died??
OK, just for sh!ts and giggles, let's say every single person in US had the virus and most didn't realize, so 333Million and 1/2M died so 1/666 that is still a 0.15% death rate
[b]No matter how I play with numbers I can't get to your figures Paul, where did they come from?[/b]
Edit: Quite possibly I messed up the Math (I do that more often than I'd like to admit) so if I've gone nuts there please jump on that[/QUOTE]
Some conspiracy theory website that will also tell you the earth is flat and has "facts" to prove it. Just my guess.
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Paul, I can't quote your post saying the lockdowns did more harm than good or the "death rates". So were those death rates supposed to be the CFRs, or the IFRs? Either way, 5.4% is a pretty high mortality rate, as is .5%.
There are something like 80 million people in the US between 40 and 59, so if we apply your .5% mortality rate to them, it's 400,000 deaths. You left out the 60-69 year olds, so we'd need to apply a higher to them, right? Another 400,000 deaths? With the lockdowns the virus still infected a large% of the population in just one year, but you want to pull possible deaths for in other countries to show they weren't doing some good in the US? Without them, we'd have had more cases and that would have potentially resulted in an even higher mortality rate in each age group.
You really need to avoid taking so many things out of context. It's possible you just don't understand, but you should learn. Look at your biggest potential source for increased mortality from the lockdowns. TB cases. 1.4 million is plausible, but it's the worst case scenario from a model of what could happen if no additional intervention is done to speed up the return to normal treatments globally. In India, one of the countries with the greatest potential increased mortality in that model, the worst case scenario is an increase of ~70K deaths due to TB, over 5 years/ month of lock down. Their COVID mortality rate went over 4k per day, so an actual 120K per month rate, vs a worst case scenario of 70K per 5 years per month of lockdown. Do math Paul, you're comparing a potential mortality increase of 1,700 per month increase to an actual rate of over 4000 per day when they stopped the lockdowns. If that's not clear enough, just realize you're pulling random numbers from calculations done on TB, Malaria, and HIV in third world countries modeled over years, and ignoring that those are possible deaths in populations that would have extremely high mortality rate from SARS cov2. Your math doesn't actually show what you want it to show. It actually supports the lockdowns and vaccines, but unfortunately, you again didn't understand or bother learning to read the data.
I'm not arguing the lockdowns were well thought out or implemented. I'm only pointing out that even when you cherry pick the data points you think support your theories that the vaccines aren't helpful or that the lockdowns increased mortality, those data points don't actually support them. Sorry.
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639489053]I think there are plenty of people in this world that don't cherry pick varied statistics just to try and prove a point. Bias is by design, but to deliberately censor reality to further your own narrative isn't.
If you don't use Google what do you use? Obviously Google yields results of very varied quality but how are you finding resources without an internet search engine in 2021?
[/QUOTE]
If there's something I deeply looking into, in this case Corona. I read what doctors, scientists and epidemiologists publish directly or tell me directly. If I'm looking for statistics, I review books, peer-reviewed articles and the WSJ. If I can't find what I'm looking for I would turn to DuckDuckGo and Google if I'm desperate. Then I compare everything I've read. In this case, most information regarding Corona is a complete dumpster fire tho. What I'm saying is, I wouldn't Google something related to Corona and call it a day.
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[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1639489713]Paul, I can't quote your post saying the lockdowns did more harm than good or the "death rates". So were those death rates supposed to be the CFRs, or the IFRs? Either way, 5.4% is a pretty high mortality rate, as is .5%.
There are something like 80 million people in the US between 40 and 59, so if we apply your .5% mortality rate to them, it's 400,000 deaths. You left out the 60-69 year olds, so we'd need to apply a higher to them, right? Another 400,000 deaths? With the lockdowns the virus still infected a large% of the population in just one year, but you want to pull possible deaths for in other countries to show they weren't doing some good in the US? Without them, we'd have had more cases and that would have potentially resulted in an even higher mortality rate in each age group.
You really need to avoid taking so many things out of context. It's possible you just don't understand, but you should learn. Look at your biggest potential source for increased mortality from the lockdowns. TB cases. 1.4 million is plausible, but it's the worst case scenario from a model of what could happen if no additional intervention is done to decrease the return to normal treatments globally. In India, one of the countries with the greatest potential increased mortality in that model, the worst case scenario is an increase of ~70K deaths due to TB, over 5 years/ month of lock down. Their COVID mortality rate went over 4k per day, so an actual 120K per month rate, vs a worst case scenario of 70K per 5 years per month of lockdown. Do math Paul, you're comparing a potential mortality increase of 1,700 per month increase to an actual rate of over 4000 per day when they stopped the lockdowns. If that's not clear enough, just realize you're pulling random numbers from calculations done on TB, Malaria, and HIV in third world countries modeled over years, and ignoring that those are possible deaths in populations that would have extremely high mortality rate from SARS cov2. Your math doesn't actually show what you want it to show. It actually supports the lockdowns and vaccines, but unfortunately, you again didn't understand or bother learning to read the data.
I'm not arguing the lockdowns were well thought out or implemented. I'm only pointing out that even when you cherry pick the data points you think support your theories that the vaccines aren't helpful or that the lockdowns increased mortality, those data points don't actually support them. Sorry.[/QUOTE]
I was wondering when you'd come in on this. And like Batman appearing in the night, here you are with another intelligent response. I commend your patience and dare you to enter some of the regular misc threads involving Covid, vaccines, etc, ... lol.
[QUOTE=_zman;1639490173]If there's something I deeply looking into, in this case Corona. I read what doctors, scientists and epidemiologists publish directly or tell me directly. If I'm looking for statistics, I review books, peer-reviewed articles and the WSJ. If I can't find what I'm looking for I would turn to DuckDuckGo and Google if I'm desperate. Then I compare everything I've read. In this case, most information regarding Corona is a complete dumpster fire tho. What I'm saying is, I wouldn't Google something related to Corona and call it a day.[/QUOTE]
I mean you can get to all those things through Google. Nothing wrong with Google IMO, as long as you keep in mind the validity of each search result you may consider getting information from.
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639490573]I was wondering when you'd come in on this. And like Batman appearing in the night, here you are with another intelligent response. I commend your patience and dare you to enter some of the regular misc threads involving Covid, vaccines, etc, ... lol.
[/QUOTE]
You can have a conversation with an epidemiologist on Google? Was not aware.
You can get WSJ articles on Google thru the paywall? Also, not aware.
You can get research papers that are in medical center's databases through Google? Was not aware.
Just let me know how to do that, would save me some time.
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[QUOTE=_zman;1639491093]You can have a conversation with an epidemiologist on Google? Was not aware.
You can get WSJ articles on Google thru the paywall? Also, not aware.
You can get research papers that are in medical center's databases through Google? Was not aware.
Just let me know how to do that, would save me some time.[/QUOTE]
I am going to assume you knew my intentions and are just having a giggle. I did miss the "tell me directly" part of your post though. If a source is legitimate I don't need information first hand. You do? If the NEJM posts something do you not believe it because you didn't hear it from the doctors first hand? lmao
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I've been vaccinated and here's what drove my decision to do so:
1. From a purely anecdotal standpoint (i.e. I'm not going to argue over the global severity of Covid), I saw family and friends become extremely ill. And, natural antibodies didn't last long; my brother caught it twice in six months (two positive tests) and was hospitalized once. He is a healthy 35 year old and I wasn't going to roll those dice.
2. I did my research on the vaccine and found out that it wasn't something that was slapped together in the space of months. It is based off of an existing vaccine for the SARS virus (Covid is a variant of SARs) and that SARs vaccine reportedly took over a decade to develop. The biochemistry behind the development of this Covid vaccine simply piggy-backed off of the SARs vaccine.
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639490573]I was wondering when you'd come in on this. And like Batman appearing in the night, here you are with another intelligent response. I commend your patience and dare you to enter some of the regular misc threads involving Covid, vaccines, etc, ... lol.
[/QUOTE]
First time I've ever been compared to Batman. Likely the last too :) I probably missed a lot of good threads, although I have I posted on threads about that silly observational study by Dr. Raoult in France, the one that really started the hydroxychloroquine debate a while back. I was on the "red states getting rek'd" sillyness thread that deteriorated into name calling and personal insults. Oh, also the natural vs vaccine immunity thread.
There were good posts on all of them and there are several guys on this thread and those who have some serious knowledge bases on virology and epidemiology.
The lockdowns did a lot of harm to a lot of people, and I could argue for and against many aspects of how they were implemented, so I'm not trying to be Batman or make Paul the Joker here. Paul has some reasonable concerns and raises important points in many posts. I have some understanding of how difficult it is to try and evaluate whether the lockdowns did more good than harm. There are too many variables and the answers also depend on what you value. I'm probably too harsh when I respond to him if I think he's using data incorrectly to try and show there's a simple answer or obvious answer to that question of good vs harm.
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[QUOTE=mgftp;1639491833]I am going to assume you knew my intentions and are just having a giggle. I did miss the "tell me directly" part of your post though. If a source is legitimate I don't need information first hand. You do? If the NEJM posts something do you not believe it because you didn't hear it from the doctors first hand? lmao[/QUOTE]
[img]https://media1.giphy.com/media/EWGVEOwZIk8yA/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493bfrsf05ujo51p9dyw0c8oxh1ico85s18kttoigp4l&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/img]
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[QUOTE=LWW;1639478233]Well sorry, but my grand pop died during all this too, the guy was in excellent health, worked a physical job into his late 80s he caught another virus the previous year and slowly died from it, one day he was fine, the next he was in a hospital for half a year, then had a home nurse for the other half while he was whithering away............
Biden can kiss my azz with his empty chairs campaign.[/QUOTE]
Sorry about your Grand Pop, but why the hell do you bring everything back to politics, I live in the UK and don't have any particular opinions about Joe Biden or US government policy.
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[QUOTE=mdonnelly80;1639492733]I've been vaccinated and here's what drove my decision to do so:
1. From a purely anecdotal standpoint (i.e. I'm not going to argue over the global severity of Covid), I saw family and friends become extremely ill. And, natural antibodies didn't last long; my brother caught it twice in six months (two positive tests) and was hospitalized once. He is a healthy 35 year old and I wasn't going to roll those dice.
2. [b]I did my research on the vaccine and found out that it wasn't something that was slapped together[/b] in the space of months. It is based off of an existing vaccine for the SARS virus (Covid is a variant of SARs) and that SARs vaccine reportedly took over a decade to develop. The biochemistry behind the development of this Covid vaccine simply piggy-backed off of the SARs vaccine.[/QUOTE]
That alone puts you ahead of most miscers from what I can see. lol
[QUOTE=JustTheDad;1639493243]First time I've ever been compared to Batman. Likely the last too :) I probably missed a lot of good threads, although I have I posted on threads about that silly observational study by Dr. Raoult in France, the one that really started the hydroxychloroquine debate a while back. I was on the "red states getting rek'd" sillyness thread that deteriorated into name calling and personal insults. Oh, also the natural vs vaccine immunity thread.
There were good posts on all of them and there are several guys on this thread and those who have some serious knowledge bases on virology and epidemiology.
The lockdowns did a lot of harm to a lot of people, and I could argue for and against many aspects of how they were implemented, so I'm not trying to be Batman or make Paul the Joker here. Paul has some reasonable concerns and raises important points in many posts. I have some understanding of how difficult it is to try and evaluate whether the lockdowns did more good than harm. There are too many variables and the answers also depend on what you value. I'm probably too harsh when I respond to him if I think he's using data incorrectly to try and show there's a simple answer or obvious answer to that question of good vs harm.[/QUOTE]
On a very surface level I agree on shutdowns and necessity when it comes to where, how long, etc. It's really hard to say. My point to Paul was that he was saying the med ship brought to NY was barely used in one post, then saying we didn't need to do shutdowns in a following post. Being in NY and working in healthcare I am sure that ship would have been used to overflow if we carried on with life as normal.
And just now I am realizing Paul is the same poster who was saying people with Covid antibodies should have been in vaccine clinical trials. I find it hard to keep everyone around here straight unless they really stand out like yourself. If you are too harsh I am way worse since I can't keep posters straight and just seemingly lump the people with the same mindsets together, which is clearly wrong.
[QUOTE=gym62richard;1639494463]Sorry about your Grand Pop, but why the hell do you bring everything back to politics, I live in the UK and don't have any particular opinions about Joe Biden or US government policy.[/QUOTE]
Far too many people in the US are so miserable about political outcomes that they tie everything in life to it.
