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[QUOTE=JustCallMeJonny;1630054283]I’m just curious how lean they really are[/QUOTE]
They are very lean. I’m by no means an expert but would guess around 10% body fat. I am so confused by your profile though brosif what are you doing? You are 40% body fat and lean bulking? Why? You should be cutting and recomping, as your body does not need an calorie surplus it can pull from all the stored fat energy just get protein boluses around 20+ grams a few times/ day with a 500 calorie deficit/day. At 40% body fat you should dieting down. You can still build strength and diet. I know I sound like a dick but look at my profile I was fat not too long ago I get it. Also by careful making images like that your goal as it can be easy way to burn out and give up. For me at first being able to tie my shoes again, have more energy with my kids, liking how I looked in the mirror, my physical health improving, and actually starting to enjoy workouts were/can all become motivators. Good luck ✌️
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630131763]This whole time you’ve been saying 8%...
And yet, it’s not about a number ?[/QUOTE]
He does make a valid point tho
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630131763]This whole time you’ve been saying 8%...
And yet, it’s not about a number ?[/QUOTE]
Dude you are coming for folks with the truth fire 🔥 today. When I get to my goal of 185-190 you will have let me know what my BF% is and drop a little bit of that on me haha.
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[QUOTE=dexter249;1630151283]Dude you are coming for folks with the truth fire 🔥 today. When I get to my goal of 185-190 you will have let me know what my BF% is and drop a little bit of that on me haha.[/QUOTE]
If I just want a leaner face isn’t it more viable to get buccal fat removal surgery? At least that way I don’t have to cut below 20% body fat.
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[QUOTE=JustCallMeJonny;1630150963]He does make a valid point tho[/QUOTE]
And what is the point?
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[QUOTE=dexter249;1630151283]Dude you are coming for folks with the truth fire today. When I get to my goal of 185-190 you will have let me know what my BF% is and drop a little bit of that on me haha.[/QUOTE]
LOL I just find it funny when people deny they’re using other peoples opinions to drive their decisions... it’s odd to me.
Even when I was knee-deep in anorexia I don’t recall ever asking for people to estimate my BF%... I was basically starving myself because of an internal drive...
If someone if happy or unhappy with how they look, it seems like THAT should be the motivation.
It’s like when your girlfriend asks “babe, does this make me look fat?”...
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630152353]And what is the point?[/QUOTE]
I don’t know. I’m just saying that what works for him is mainly because he actually holds himself to a higher standard of what’s lean
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[QUOTE=JustCallMeJonny;1630151743]If I just want a leaner face isn’t it more viable to get buccal fat removal surgery? At least that way I don’t have to cut below 20% body fat.[/QUOTE]
Am I being trolled? You can do whatever you want. What are your goals? I can’t advise you on plastic surgery you would need to talk to a plastic surgeon. I would advocate that getting leaner through diet and exercise would have benefits that go beyond that just of aesthetics though.
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[QUOTE=JustCallMeJonny;1630152573]I don’t know. I’m just saying that what works for him is mainly because he actually holds himself to a higher standard of what’s lean[/QUOTE]
....I don’t follow your logic at all
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630152683]....I don’t follow your logic at all[/QUOTE]
Bro, read my earlier post. He’s not asking your permission to get lean. He’s simply stating that 13% is way off from his own estimate and that perhaps he feels more confident at the lower end as opposed to the conclusion that you came to regarding what’s healthy and not. It doesn’t really make sense with me either but then again him and I have two different goals. That’s all I’m saying bro
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[QUOTE=JustCallMeJonny;1630152973]Bro, read my earlier post. He’s not asking your permission to get lean. He’s simply stating that 13% is way off from his own estimate and that perhaps he feels more confident at the lower end as opposed to the conclusion that you came to regarding what’s healthy and not. It doesn’t really make sense with me either but then again him and I have two different goals. That’s all I’m saying bro[/QUOTE]
You clearly didn’t read any of my previous comments about the vivid irony in claiming he’s not seeking validation while posting for opinions in this thread.
If it literally makes no difference to his decisions, why ask in the first place?
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630153303]You clearly didn’t read any of my previous comments about the vivid irony in claiming he’s not seeking validation while posting for opinions in this thread.
If it literally makes no difference to his decisions, why ask in the first place?[/QUOTE]
Oh nvm i see what’s going on now. Yeah it took me a minute to understand what he was saying
Sorry about that
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630152543]LOL I just find it funny when people deny they’re using other peoples opinions to drive their decisions... it’s odd to me.
Even when I was knee-deep in anorexia I don’t recall ever asking for people to estimate my BF%... I was basically starving myself because of an internal drive...
If someone if happy or unhappy with how they look, it seems like THAT should be the motivation.
It’s like when your girlfriend asks “babe, does this make me look fat?”...[/QUOTE]
Power to your for speaking your truth man. This must be both rewarding and challenging to help people on here. Be sure you are getting good self care for yourself.
Yeah validation seeking from others is tough, I’ve struggled with that myself. No amount of dirt shoveled in can fill that hole.
Also when your girlfriend asks that question the correct answer is “I don’t know I’d have to see what it looks like off first”
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Keep this on topic please guys, it's not a debate thread. If I have to I will delete posts.
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[QUOTE=dexter249;1630153973]
Also when your girlfriend asks that question the correct answer is “I don’t know I’d have to see what it looks like off first”[/QUOTE]
Haha!! I love it
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Y’all seem to be making a bigger deal out of things than they are. I have a personal goal for how I want to look, that I plan to stop cutting after I reach. I’m also just casually curious what % bf people think I am based on pictures. The number other people perceive isn’t gonna change my decision making it’s just something I’m curious about. There is no contradiction here. Nothing to he debated
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[QUOTE=LIKAB0SS;1630176353]Y’all seem to be making a bigger deal out of things than they are. I have a personal goal for how I want to look, that I plan to stop cutting after I reach. I’m also just casually curious what % bf people think I am based on pictures. The number other people perceive isn’t gonna change my decision making it’s just something I’m curious about. There is no contradiction here. Nothing to he debated[/QUOTE]
TBH I would need a better picture.
The one you shared is an odd angle, poor lighting, and pretty hazy/exposed...
A photo in plain natural light with higher resolution would help..
But I want to emphasize something:
You're 6-1 and 166lb... and very very lean. Given your stats, I don't understand WHY you'd want to waste time trying to get an arbitrary leanness level when (1) you're nowhere NEAR your natural lean mass potential, (2) you're not competing, and (3) you're going to start LOSING lean tissue if you get much leaner no matter what you do.
There's no health benefit and probably some big negatives (at least in the short term) of TRYING to be below 10% BF for most men. Test levels, sleep, food focus, hunger.... what exactly would you NEED to be leaner for?
It's widely accepted (although I realize it's personal preference) to spend MOST of your time trying to focus on gaining lean mass until you get close to your natural limit... after you get there, then sure, trying to focus on very very lean gains makes sense... but for you? It makes WAY more sense to try and reach your natural muscle tissue limits before trying to cut so much... you're basically just wasting time at this point not building any muscle for no good reason (by most people's standard).
Just to show how LITTLE this margin for difference is and why it really shouldn't matter, here is what I consider the difference between 10% and 8%... you tell me if the added time wasted, hunger, and everything else is worth it JUST to diet down to an unsustainable level:
[B]10% (IMO)[/B] --- Notice that there is completely visible ab separation, but the skin still looks 'healthy' and not dry/shrink-wrapped?
[IMG]https://www.muscleandfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/1109-Six-Pack-Abs-GettyImages-579429984.jpg[/IMG]
[B]8% (IMO)[/B] --- Compared to here, it looks dry... not supple/healthy... etc?
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDB18IBWAAAzSNh.jpg[/IMG]
I have been 8% AND LOWER before.. like seriously 5% bodyfat... it's not fun...
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Fair enough. I'm detrained, I used to be much closer to my 'natural potential' 3 years ago back when I was 180 at a similar if not greater level of conditioning. imgur.com/a/1dSZRCz (and I didn't train legs, had I it would've been 185-190 at this level of conditioning). This was after about a year of lifting.
As result of detraining effect I can cut without incurring to much of a penalty to my ability to gain muscle. Right now I'm running a 1500c deficit, or at least thats what I am aiming for assuming a 2000 bme. I'm still improving my strength every week while getting leaner, so at this point I don't see any immediate benefit from easing up on this cut. If and when my energy and progress start to suffer I will up my calories.
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[QUOTE=LIKAB0SS;1630181273]
As result of detraining effect I can cut without incurring to much of a penalty to my ability to gain muscle. Right now I'm running a 1500c deficit, or at least thats what I am aiming for assuming a 2000 bme.[/QUOTE]
wait wait... WUT?
How in the hell are you justifying eating 1500 calories (i assume you mean you're EATING 1500 and not in a 1500 calorie deficit) when you're 6-1, 166lb, and active?
Bro, im 6-foot, about 150, and I maintain on like 3000 just with 10k steps a day and 4-5 days of 60min lifting a week...
Surely you realize how unsustainable that kind of calorie intake is. That is basically a small bikini competitor's LAST week of dieting before a show... not an intake level of a young, lean, tall, active dude...
Something is really wrong with this picture. You need to start eating more, much much more...
I mean dude: [url]https://tdeecalculator.net/result.php?s=imperial&g=male&age=25&lbs=166&in=73&act=1.725&bf=10&f=1[/url]
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630181523]wait wait... WUT?
How in the hell are you justifying eating 1500 calories when you're 6-1, 166lb, and active?
Bro, im 6-foot, about 150, and I maintain on like 3000 just with 10k steps a day and 4-5 days of 60min lifting a week...
Surely you realize how unsustainable that kind of calorie intake is. That is basically a small bikini competitor's LAST week of dieting before a show... not an intake level of a young, lean, tall, active dude...
Something is really wrong with this picture. You need to start eating more, much much more...[/QUOTE]
I don't eat 1500c. I eat around 1900c. But I also live an active lifestyle and throw in a 7-8 mile walk everyday. So basal rate(2000) + workout( 400) + ab workout(100)+ walking (800) gives 3300ish expenditure, or 1400 deficit if I eat 1900. I have no problems w my energy or anything and my lifts (weighted calisthenics) go up by 5+ pounds every week, so why would I ease up?
I'm not saying its sustainable. Eventually I'll be so lean that it affects my energy and health adversely, but I'm not there yet, once I get there I'll take it up to a maintenance or thereabouts.
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[QUOTE=LIKAB0SS;1630181903]I don't eat 1500c. I eat around 1900c. But I also live an active lifestyle and throw in a 7-8 mile walk everyday. So basal rate(2000) + workout( 400) + ab workout(100)+ walking (800) gives 3300ish expenditure, or 1400 deficit if I eat 1900. I have no problems w my energy or anything and my lifts go up by 5ish pounds every week, so why would I ease up?[/QUOTE]
So you're telling me you're eating 1900 calories while you're BURNING 3300?
Dude... im done here.. this is certifiably insane.
Please do some research on nutrition before you hurt yourself. Jesus Christ....
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630182033]So you're telling me you're eating 1900 calories while you're BURNING 3300?
Dude... im done here.. this is certifiably insane.
Please do some research on nutrition before you hurt yourself. Jesus Christ....[/QUOTE]
If I was in the dire medical condition you seem to be implying I am, would it make any sense for my energy levels to be high? For me to be getting notably stronger every week? I get this is a very high deficit, and I wouldn't recommend it to other people, . If it was ****ing up my energy levels or my performance I would stop it, but it isn't.
My weighted dips have gone up 70 pounds in the last month while running this deficit. My pullups have gone up 40. Whats the point of me upping the calories if my body is responding so well to what I'm doing now?
I haven't seen any negative side affects, my sleep is good, my mind is sharp, my libido and energy levels all of it. Upping my calories right now just does not seem necessary at all.
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[QUOTE=LIKAB0SS;1630182493]If I was in the dire medical condition you seem to be implying I am, would it make any sense for my energy levels to be high? For me to be getting notably stronger every week? I get this is a very high deficit, and I wouldn't recommend it to other people, . If it was ****ing up my energy levels or my performance I would stop it, but it isn't.
My weighted dips have gone up 70 pounds in the last month while running this deficit. My pullups have gone up 40. Whats the point of me upping the calories if my body is responding so well to what I'm doing now?
I haven't seen any negative side affects, my sleep is good, my mind is sharp, my libido and energy levels all of it. Upping my calories right now just does not seem necessary at all.[/QUOTE]
You're right dude.
You have an excellent plan and boy oh boy I was silly to question it.
A 1500 calorie deficit while already being super lean makes total sense.
You're very reasonable and intelligent in your thinking.
Carry on. I hope to someday be as wise as you.
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630183523]You're right dude.
You have an excellent plan and boy oh boy I was silly to question it.
A 1500 calorie deficit while already being super lean makes total sense.
You're very reasonable and intelligent in your thinking.
Carry on. I hope to someday be as wise as you.[/QUOTE]
Sarcastically repeating what I said does not an argument make. If I were in the dangerous position your suggesting I am, would it make sense for me to be adding 5+ lbs to my lifts every week yes or no
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[QUOTE=LIKAB0SS;1630184183]Sarcastically repeating what I said does not an argument make. If I were in the dangerous position your suggesting I am, would it make sense for me to be adding 5+ lbs to my lifts every week yes or no[/QUOTE]
yes, because you're detrained as you said.
You're almost certainly gaining strength due to increased neuromuscular and mechanical efficiency, not because of actual dry muscle mass.
Again, do some research before making stupid decisions like eating so little that you lose 3lbs a week...
Do you even realize that the MAXIMUM recommendation is to lose no more than 1% of your bodyweight a week?
A 1500 calorie deficit for someone your size would mean losing 1.7% of your bodyweight a week...
You're doing everything wrong here.
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630185153]yes, because you're detrained as you said.
You're almost certainly gaining strength due to increased neuromuscular and mechanical efficiency, not because of actual dry muscle mass.
Again, do some research before making stupid decisions like eating so little that you lose 3lbs a week...
Do you even realize that the MAXIMUM recommendation is to lose no more than 1% of your bodyweight a week?
A 1500 calorie deficit for someone your size would mean losing 1.7% of your bodyweight a week...
You're doing everything wrong here.[/QUOTE]
I’m not loosing 3lb a week. It’s maybe 1. And yes I track my macros accurately, with scale, no guesswork.
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[QUOTE=LIKAB0SS;1630186303]I’m not loosing 3lb a week. It’s maybe 1. And yes I track my macros accurately, with scale, no guesswork.[/QUOTE]
Then you’re not in a 1500 calorie deficit.
Losing 1lb a week requires a 500 calories deficit, not 1500.
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[QUOTE=AdamWW;1630187403]Then you’re not in a 1500 calorie deficit.
Losing 1lb a week requires a 500 calories deficit, not 1500.[/QUOTE]This ^^^^. A consistent 1500 calorie deficit would result, on average, of 3 pounds lost a week.
You are either vastly overestimating your daily calorie burn, or miscounting intake - or some combo of the two.
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[QUOTE=CommitmentRulz;1630188663]This ^^^^. A consistent 1500 calorie deficit would result, on average, of 3 pounds lost a week.
You are either vastly overestimating your daily calorie burn, or miscounting intake - or some combo of the two.[/QUOTE]
I cook all my food, weight every ingredient( including oils) and use the highest estimates I can find for calories, and I track my walks so I know I’m getting the accurate distance. There’s no room for me to be miscounting by 1000.
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[QUOTE=LIKAB0SS;1630188883]I cook all my food, weight every ingredient( including oils) and use the highest estimates I can find for calories, and I track my walks so I know I’m getting the accurate distance. There’s no room for me to be miscounting by 1000.[/QUOTE]
Nobody said you’re mis-counting, we said you’re not in a 1500 calorie deficit.
You’re either not eating what you think, or you’re not burning as much as you think... there is no other option here.
