I would switch the cashews to walnuts, i eat atleast a cup of walnuts a day they are packed with all the good fats about 38grams a half cup
Printable View
I would switch the cashews to walnuts, i eat atleast a cup of walnuts a day they are packed with all the good fats about 38grams a half cup
if your on keto diet.. do you need to get into keto to lose weight? and today i ate a muffin/orange juice will this effect me gettin into keto?
Yes you definetly need to get into ketosis that is your goal. To lose weight probably not to lose a hight percentage fat yes. Yes orange juice would be a bad thing on any low carb diet and so would any other juice or bread.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tolkien [/i]
[B]if your on keto diet.. do you need to get into keto to lose weight? and today i ate a muffin/orange juice will this effect me gettin into keto? [/B][/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
If your not in ketosis you're not on keto.
BUT, no you don't need to be in ketosis or on keto to lose fat. If you are in a calorie deficit regardless of type of diet you will lose fat. The reason for using keto is the muscle sparing aspects.
Well I've decided to give it a try. I've read most of the post but I just want to make sure I'm doing most everything right. I'm 180lbs so I'll only need 1800-1900 calories a day, correct? I'll keep my protein about the same, 1.5gr per pound. My total fat grams should be around 100gr? Far as my carbs, I should take in 50 grams not including the 30 grams after workout? So really it's 80 grams per day, right? Then after 5 days of keto you do a carb up for 1.5 days while still maintaning 1800-1900 calories. If there's anything that I need to change please let me know. I do have a couple technical questions.
1. After my workout does it matter what kind of carbs. Can it be complex carbs like oatmeal? I do my cardio 1st thing in the morning and would love to chow on some oatmeal 1-2hrs afterwords? The oatmeal would give me right around 30 carbs.
2. If I can get 30gr from oatmeal should the other 50gr be simple or complex?
Thanks for the help!!!
If you're doing keto-Your carb intake should not exceed 30g period. ANd most of that or all of it should be utilized after the workout. Preferably low-glycemic carbs such slow-cooking oatmeal (not the instant stuff) or broccoli, pineapple just to name a few.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by modestmike [/i]
[B]If you're doing keto-Your carb intake should not exceed 30g period. ANd most of that or all of it should be utilized after the workout. Preferably low-glycemic carbs such slow-cooking oatmeal (not the instant stuff) or broccoli, pineapple just to name a few. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry mike but I would disagree.
But first let me respond to Big Drake.
Your protein is high IMO. You only really need 1g per lb of body weight at first and once adaptation has occured, a bit less is okay as well.
Your calories look too low to be. I am 175lbs and am aiming at 2400kclas per day (not including post w/o shake). I have been on this awhile and with constant stable fat loss. I suggest you start at maintenance minus 500kcals, don't go too low too quickly.
Carbs (this is where I disagree with mike). For all types of keto (SKD, TKD and CKD) you should eat your carbs throughout the day and these should come from green veg etc such as brocolli, cauliflower (okay I know its not green :)). This is not a bbing thing, this is a general health matter, you NEED these the micronutrients from the veggies. Aim at no more than 10g of net carbs per meal, taking all 30g in one meal will refill liver glycogen and knock you out of ketosis).
Now a pure CKD doesn't include carbs in the post workout shake, but most of us here recommend a modified CKD which includes post w/o carbs in your shake. These are taken to replenish muscle glycogen and aid recovery. Use should avoid fructose and sucrose (these will preferentially refill liver glycogen = bad), use dextrose or grape juice (although this does have fructose as well as dextrose in it).
Although in carb terms we don't count the post workout shake, in calorie terms you can/should. In my numbers above I have worked out my maintenance cals ignoring cals used during the w/o and also ignored my post w/o shake. ALternatively you could count both.
Edit: I forgot to mention that your protein to fat ratio is not good, this will result in protein being your main source of fuel :( Try for 65% fat, 5% carb and 30% protein.
Hope this helps get you started and good luck. :D
Hey IPR I'm 6' and 180lbs, and I'm eating 1800 (10xBW) I've been doing this since I started (194 x 10 BW). I believe my maintenance is around 2470 calories? Plateau coming? (if it's not already here)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bachovas [/i]
[B]Hey IPR I'm 6' and 180lbs, and I'm eating 1800 (10xBW) I've been doing this since I started (194 x 10 BW). I believe my maintenance is around 2470 calories? Plateau coming? (if it's not already here) [/B][/QUOTE]
Wow.... :eek: I couldn't manage that low, but hey, we're all different right :D
I started at 180lbs, dropped to 176lbs in the first week (water loss, so this is my starting weight really) and am now at 172lbs :D
Not much weight loss, BUT, 5" off my waist :D
1800kcals would be my basal met rate (in other words just lying there breathing), without even adding on the action of moving around. And my maintenance is around 2900kclas not including the cals from the actual workouts.
2900!!! how come man? where did you get all those numbers? I'm planning to bulk with 3000 cals.
Have a look at this link
[url]http://www.protraineronline.com/past/july2/nutrient.cfm[/url]
This is also consistent with the calc done on fitday, and the general view that maintenance cals is around 16-17 times body weight.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IPR [/i]
[B]Sorry mike but I would disagree.
But first let me respond to Big Drake.
Your protein is high IMO. You only really need 1g per lb of body weight at first and once adaptation has occured, a bit less is okay as well.
Your calories look too low to be. I am 175lbs and am aiming at 2400kclas per day (not including post w/o shake). I have been on this awhile and with constant stable fat loss. I suggest you start at maintenance minus 500kcals, don't go too low too quickly.
Carbs (this is where I disagree with mike). For all types of keto (SKD, TKD and CKD) you should eat your carbs throughout the day and these should come from green veg etc such as brocolli, cauliflower (okay I know its not green :)). This is not a bbing thing, this is a general health matter, you NEED these the micronutrients from the veggies. Aim at no more than 10g of net carbs per meal, taking all 30g in one meal will refill liver glycogen and knock you out of ketosis).
Now a pure CKD doesn't include carbs in the post workout shake, but most of us here recommend a modified CKD which includes post w/o carbs in your shake. These are taken to replenish muscle glycogen and aid recovery. Use should avoid fructose and sucrose (these will preferentially refill liver glycogen = bad), use dextrose or grape juice (although this does have fructose as well as dextrose in it).
Although in carb terms we don't count the post workout shake, in calorie terms you can/should. In my numbers above I have worked out my maintenance cals ignoring cals used during the w/o and also ignored my post w/o shake. ALternatively you could count both.
Edit: I forgot to mention that your protein to fat ratio is not good, this will result in protein being your main source of fuel :( Try for 65% fat, 5% carb and 30% protein.
Hope this helps get you started and good luck. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the help. That's what I needed to know. I'm glad to hear I can bump up my calories, I was feeling week all day and dragging ass in the gym. I also like the sound of the protein to fat ratio. I recently came off the ABCDE diet where I gained a couple % in BF (more then I expected) during the bulking phase, so I'd like to get rid of the extra baggage soon as possible.
I am going to start a cycle of one plus and the end of my keto cutting cycle. I understand that this is not a supplement board but it directly effects my keto so it would be great if you could help.
1) while on keto and taking one plus should I elivate my calories?
2) if elivations my cals should i include more protien and even more carbs, i only eat about 20 no more as it is?
What would happen if while in ketosis for one day all you ate was about 800 calories of protein for one day a week. Would the body burn muscle or countinue with the fat?
I dont consider myself to be an athority on keto type diets but i have read that to much protien would knock you out of ketosis
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by proteus3446 [/i]
[B]I dont consider myself to be an athority on keto type diets but i have read that to much protien would knock you out of ketosis [/B][/QUOTE]
technically it could, if your body ran out of fat to convert to energy. but as for just ingesting a lot of protein, I don't believe it will knock you out of ketosis. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I'm pretty sure you're safe as long as you still have some fat to burn.
I have been interested in trying a Keto diet to help shred after a 5 month intense lifting period. I am 5' 5 1/2" , 150 lbs. and 18% bf. My goal is 9.5% bf and I am having a hard time geting down past 16% with watching what I eat (40/40/20).
My main question is, Is there a specific ratio within a Keto diet that I would need to stick to in order to lose fat? I am limiting (for the past 3 days so far) my carbs to under 30 g day, but I feel that the fat intake percentage is too high (I'm sure it's from years of brainwashing, low fat dieting). Any information would be appreciated!
Calories should be 10 X your weight = 1500 calories
Protein = your body weight = 150 G 600 calories
Carbs about 30 g a day 120 calories
The rest of your calories from fat...... 87 grams of fat = 783 cal.
That is just a simple way to start. You would have to adjust the fat and protein if you feel tired or sluggish. You WILL feel like that in the begining of the Keto diet, which is pretty normal in most cases. Hope that helps some...good luck
Roxie :)
Cals are 12xbody weight from "the ketogenic diets" formula
I've never read that book, I've learned everything from Fitnessman, Chi_town, Richie and so on from this board. Ever since joining I have learned that 10 x bodyweight is good to start with. Whatever works for you. I have been at 10 x bodyweight with great results. Everyone is different and you will see what works best for you. That's why I stated "simple wat to start."
Roxie :)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BornHard-13 [/i]
[B]What would happen if while in ketosis for one day all you ate was about 800 calories of protein for one day a week. Would the body burn muscle or countinue with the fat? [/B][/QUOTE]
Remember, about 46% (don't remember exactly) of protein is converted to glucose, so taking in that much protein would probably knock you out IMO.
Edit: sorry misread your post, thought you said 800g :rolleyes: 800kcals, 200g would be okay depending on your body weight.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by proteus3446 [/i]
[B]Cals are 12xbody weight from "the ketogenic diets" formula [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm at 14xbody weight (not lean weight) and have great results. Everyone is different, but I advise don't start too low. Take a maintenance level (15-16x) and drop 500kcals from that to start.
Everything else I agree with Roxie. :)
i've readed somewhere on this thread about "2weeks keto and 1 week carb"
What's exactly the idea behind it ? Is it optimal for fat loss ?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capricio [/i]
[B]i've readed somewhere on this thread about "2weeks keto and 1 week carb"
What's exactly the idea behind it ? Is it optimal for fat loss ? [/B][/QUOTE]
I've seen vairious ideas based around cycling keto with a low fat diet. SOme suggest 2 days keto, 2 days low fat etc. The idea being to confuse your system to maintain fat loss.
Personally I don't agree with these approaches. A solid diet will work whether its keto or not. No need to confuse your body to maintain loses, but it is necessary to do refeeds to ensure metabolism remains as high as possible (the Leptin thing).
I believe keto with 12-36hr carb-up each week is a great fat loss approach and very muscle sparing IMO.
wow that was fast
one more question:
if i do keto @ 1800 kcal, then on my carbup i still stay on 1800 kcal but change the ratios of carb/fat/prot right ?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capricio [/i]
[B]wow that was fast
one more question:
if i do keto @ 1800 kcal, then on my carbup i still stay on 1800 kcal but change the ratios of carb/fat/prot right ? [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep, thats about it :D Protein stays about the same (but don't worry too much about this after the first 3 weeks), but swap the fat and carb %'s.
btw, 1800kcals, how much do you weigh and what is your current bf%?
i weigh about 180 and my bodyfat..not sure but i guess around 16%
I was off training for a while..
hmmm here's a scenario thats been in my mind lately,
what if you accidentally got kicked out of ketosis and continue to eat foods with high fat in them, will that result in an increase of adipose tissue?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cut_eyes [/i]
[B]hmmm here's a scenario thats been in my mind lately,
what if you accidentally got kicked out of ketosis and continue to eat foods with high fat in them, will that result in an increase of adipose tissue? [/B][/QUOTE]
I think this depends on waht you meant by kicked out and for how long. Generally I would say no, also if you are in calorific deficit you are unlikely to do so anyway.
Howver, if you eat high carb and high fat obviously this will in time, once muscle and liver glycogen is full. This is the point in Lyles book about reducing the carb intake during the second 24hr period of a 48hr refeed.
So, IMHO, temporary (meaning a few hours) whilst still eating a low carb diet will not produce any real spillover.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capricio [/i]
[B]i weigh about 180 and my bodyfat..not sure but i guess around 16%
I was off training for a while.. [/B][/QUOTE]
I know Fit and others say 10-12 times body weight but I believe this is too low to start with. I suggest you start at maintenance minus 500kcals, depending on your metabolism you may want to reduce this by a further 250kcals. Your maintenance level will probably be somewhere around 15-16 times total body weight, 2880kcals, which would suggest a starting cal intake of 2400kcals.
At this level you probably won't feel that hungry, but don't worry you will lose fat and retain muscle this way :)
I was hoping you all could help
I've done keto off and on for about 8 months, I lost about 40lbs (I gained alot from drinking after turning 21). Well now I want to gain muscle and lose another 15lbs of fat. For the past 3 weeks I've been getting to the gym, lifting in a proper program (everyone says the splits are good and what not) but I've been staying on keto. I'm not losing anymore fat I don't feel.
I want to gain 25lbs of muscle, and lose about 15lbs of fat.
Since I'm at a slow down point in terms of fat should I pump up carbs for a week (cheat week?) or for a day (cheat day) to get things going well again.
Am I going to be able to gain muscle while on a ketogenic diet?
( I hadn't seen this answered in plain english)
-Matt
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mattguy [/i]
[B]I was hoping you all could help
Am I going to be able to gain muscle while on a ketogenic diet?
( I hadn't seen this answered in plain english)
-Matt [/B][/QUOTE]
YES.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mattguy [/i]
[B]I was hoping you all could help
I've done keto off and on for about 8 months, I lost about 40lbs (I gained alot from drinking after turning 21). Well now I want to gain muscle and lose another 15lbs of fat. For the past 3 weeks I've been getting to the gym, lifting in a proper program (everyone says the splits are good and what not) but I've been staying on keto. I'm not losing anymore fat I don't feel.
I want to gain 25lbs of muscle, and lose about 15lbs of fat.
Since I'm at a slow down point in terms of fat should I pump up carbs for a week (cheat week?) or for a day (cheat day) to get things going well again.
Am I going to be able to gain muscle while on a ketogenic diet?
( I hadn't seen this answered in plain english)
-Matt [/B][/QUOTE]
You can do both but it will take longer.
On your previous keto diets, were they a straight forward ketongenic diet or were the CKD type? I will assume CKD.
On a CKD you use the carb-up for the anabolic state and glycogen repleting, weekday keto for fat loss. I'm not sure a week carb-up will be a good idea per se, I would think its better to raise you calories during your keto days to a maintenance level or above which will improve the gains without adding much fat.
I have certainly made gains whilst losing fat with keto, but 25lbs will take time on any diet.
It was a straight Keto diet before, perhaps I should do CKD.
Now this is just weird...last night I went out to eat, had bread, even had a slightly sweet desert....I had a good amount of carbs.
This morning I wake up, hit a Ketostick for curiousity, and I'm ON FULL ON KETOSIS!...it was dark...I had a good amount of carbs about 2 hours before I went to bed...how could this be?
So you say that on the weekends and thursday (non-workout days) I should go Keto with fewer kcal's...below maintenence.....and on workout days a keto diet with more than maintenence?
I really appreciate the help.
-Matt
Matt, not surprised about the ketostix, its just that the amount of carbs weren't sufficient to refill glycogen stores. ALot will have gone into muscle glycogen stores so may also have felt a little pumpedthe next morning as well. If I have a mid-week refeed meal I don't drop out of ketosis.
CKD involves a 12-48hr carb-up every 7 days. The rest of the time you are on normal keto. Outside of that its just a choice of calorie level.
Damn, I wish I had known about having a mid week or periodic re-carb, I fell out of ketosis, but that's ok...
My workout today was awesome, I got up to 70lbs curl (both arms..I'm a n00b), and I guess my body was really needing the glycogen, my arms were a full 1/2 inch bigger today than this time last week.
.....just wish I had started reading all this stuff earlier. Thanks a million. I'll keep harassing you all ;)
-Matt
What do you people think of this?
[QUOTE]
For the depletion workout, first you have to take yourself out of ketosis by eating about 50g of carbs, specifically fruit (or pure fructose) because fructose preferentially saturates liver glycogen which is the fastest way to get out of ketosis. The reason is that when in ketosis ketones are the preferred source of fuel, so if you perform this workout while in ketosis you won't further deplete muscle glycogen rather you will just burn ketones. By taking yourself out of ketosis for this workout you will deplete intra-muscular glucose to the greatest degree possible, which in turn allows for maximal glycogen resynthesis (and local insulin sensitivity will be increased in every muscle, further increasing the effectiveness of the carb-load).
[/QUOTE]
Do you do it? Is it logical? Eating 50grs of carbs to take you out of ketosis so you truly deplete muscle glycogen instead of burning more ketones.
I did keto this week, i ate about 30-50 gr fiberous carbs a day. I ate a good ratio of fat/protein, took my post w/o shake with 30gr dextrose.. but i didnt got that nasty breath or smelly pee.
I think im gonna buy ketostix, at least i hope they'r on sale in belgium.
One last thing, how accurate are those scales that also can measure the fatpercentage...?
cheers
Bach, sounds odd to me. Lyle does suggest some carbs pre-depletion workout to set p your system for better carb absorption and over compensation in the carb-up.
The reason I say its odd is that duing your w/o the muscles will prinicplally use muscle glycogen, if plasma glucose is available it will use some and will decrease the rate of muscle glycogen lose for the same amount of exercise, so you can workout fo longer......but whats the point in that you just want to deplete muscle glycogen levels.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't follow how ingesting glucose can assist in depelting glucose (muscle glycogen). The FFA's and ketones refered to are only used for endurance type work, not anerobic weight lifting.
btw, where did this quote come from?
Here you go:
[url]http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=45[/url]
What happens if u go under 1000 calories eaten a day while still eating 1 gram protein per pound of body weight? I am curious if you body just countiues to use fat or goes into starve mode and starts burning muscle.
#1...Overall, which is better....one carb up meal at the end of the week or a whole day of carbs?
#2... I am getting ready to start. Here is my plan so far:
6 meals, each with 36gr. protein, 26gr. fat, and maybe some veggies. Also, 40-50 gr,. carbs after workout in a shake. This comes to a total of 2700 cals., including the post w/o carbs. I assume I am supposed to include that in my total?
I am 6 ft. 215 lbs., 13 % bf at present. Looking to drop down to at least 10%.
Is my protein intake too low? I used a formula taken from this board.
#3... On non-workout days, do I replace the post w/o carbs with protein and fat or just reduce my total cals. by the amount of the carbs?
I have read many of the posts, but many are contradictory.
Thanks for suggestions!
where is fitnessman and all those other keto experts??
I'm getting really confused now that i have read the "Step by step keto diet" thread:
1- Does post w/o shake with 30gr Dextrose kick me out of Ketosis ?
2- Does eating 50gr fiberous carbs kick me out of ketosis?
3- During the carb-load days, do i eat whatever and howmuch i want (like pizza, pasta etc..)
4- Is anyone capable at answering these questions ?
1. You need it. Don't worry about being in ketosis by that time.
2. No, you could eat less (about 30) if you're worried about having to many carbs.
3. It's up to you, some people do it, some people don't.
4. Yes.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by patmel [/i]
[B]#1...Overall, which is better....one carb up meal at the end of the week or a whole day of carbs?
#2... I am getting ready to start. Here is my plan so far:
6 meals, each with 36gr. protein, 26gr. fat, and maybe some veggies. Also, 40-50 gr,. carbs after workout in a shake. This comes to a total of 2700 cals., including the post w/o carbs. I assume I am supposed to include that in my total?
I am 6 ft. 215 lbs., 13 % bf at present. Looking to drop down to at least 10%.
Is my protein intake too low? I used a formula taken from this board.
#3... On non-workout days, do I replace the post w/o carbs with protein and fat or just reduce my total cals. by the amount of the carbs?
I have read many of the posts, but many are contradictory.
Thanks for suggestions! [/B][/QUOTE]
1. 1 meal is not enough to fully replenish muscle and liver glycogen IMHO. 2-3 meals would be better......but many still do a full 36 hr carb up (i Usually do 2-4 meals on the weekends and a mid week carb-up......1 meal just pasta no sauce.
2. Your base plan sounds fine to me.
3. Postworkout carbs are always needed on carb-up days or not. When you train, your PW nutrition is paramount on a carb depleted diet like CKD (KETO)
There is no perfect keto, everyone must find what works for them best and tweak it until then.
PEACE
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capricio [/i]
[B]where is fitnessman and all those other keto experts??
I'm getting really confused now that i have read the "Step by step keto diet" thread:
1- Does post w/o shake with 30gr Dextrose kick me out of Ketosis ?
2- Does eating 50gr fiberous carbs kick me out of ketosis?
3- During the carb-load days, do i eat whatever and howmuch i want (like pizza, pasta etc..)
4- Is anyone capable at answering these questions ? [/B][/QUOTE]
1. [b]NO ! [/b] The carbs (glycogen) are immediately used my the muscles and most never make it to the liver. It is only when liver glycogen stores are fully replenished that you will surely be knowcked out of ketosis.
2. [b]NO !![/b] they will not.
3. [b]NO !!![/b] Some people make carb load days a cheat day. I say as long as you do it in moderation and get the proper ratios of c/p/f and don't over do cals........All food is fine. Others are strict about losing weight and eating clean and cannot force themselves to partake in comfort foods in abundance. My recommendation, switch the fat and carbs targets (% wise) for carb-ups and try to stick to better carbs. But a peice of pizza won't kill ya IMO.
4. [b]YES !!!!![/b] We have quite a crew that is extreamly knowledgable on nutrition and keto. Be patient an usually most people won't wait too long for answers. You can always PM people as well. :D
PEACE
aha thanks for the answers chi and bachovas..However i have one two last questions that is troubling my mind:
1-If i want to loose weight on a keto diet: can i also do mid-week carbups (if yes, how many gr?)
2-is Peanutbutter that contains 14gr carbs per 100gr. good ?
You will have to see if a mid week carb up will be good for you. I can do a mid week carb up on Wednesday, I eat two hours after my work out and have a cup of pasta with my dinner...I have no problem with it knocking me out of Ketosis...it actually keeps my muslces looking fuller. Try it, see if it hinders your weight loss, that's the only way you will know since everyone is different.
Peanut Butter is great for a Keto diet.
Roxie :)
Just to follow-up on Chi and Roxie.
The 50g of carbs, don't eat them all in one meal, spread through the day. At first you may find it easier to think in terms of say no more than 10g f carbs per meal.
Mid-week carb meal. I now do this sometimes depending on my w/o schedule (currently doing a 5-day cycle). Some people find they're struggling with their Thurs or Fri workout, and for them its a good idea, but keep it clean (maybe not as clean as Chi ;)), and just one meal. However, if you are just starting I would advise against the mid-week meal, at least for the first 3 weeks, to ensure you are fully adapted. By this time you will probably find this meal won't through you out of ketosis.
hehe thx for the replies roxie and IPR.. now im ready to go on keto.
I'm going to have my first meal now: tuna with some mayo..
Wish me luck :)