Higher volume training for us older dudes?

I've heard that as you get older, training with lighter intensity for more volume can be beneficial as it allows similar gains/hypertrophy but with less stress on your body?

I'm 39 halfway to 40...after lifting since my 20s, I've got some kinks here and there like anyone. Thinking of adopting this approach a bit more in the near future. Sometimes pushing those super heavy weights for 3-5 reps is just SO taxing I feel like I need a week to recover.

Anyone else adopt higher volume training with good results, e.g. it didn't make you lose a ton of mass?

Or is the answer to keep the intensity up but take more rest days?

Don't get me wrong, I actually feel great overall, fit and healthy, but I do notice that I don't "bounce" back as quickly if that makes sense...

[QUOTE=sunsean;1591488901]I've heard that as you get older, training with lighter intensity for more volume can be beneficial as it allows similar gains/hypertrophy but with less stress on your body?

I'm 39 halfway to 40...after lifting since my 20s, I've got some kinks here and there like anyone. Thinking of adopting this approach a bit more in the near future. Sometimes pushing those super heavy weights for 3-5 reps is just SO taxing I feel like I need a week to recover.

Anyone else adopt higher volume training with good results, e.g. it didn't make you lose a ton of mass?

Or is the answer to keep the intensity up but take more rest days?

Don't get me wrong, I actually feel great overall, fit and healthy, but I do notice that I don't "bounce" back as quickly if that makes sense...[/QUOTE]

Changing volumes and intensities around could be an approach to periodization. If you've done nothing but super heavy lifts your whole career, you might benefit from a switch to volume-based training.

[QUOTE=ElrondHubbard;1591495571]Changing volumes and intensities around could be an approach to periodization. If you've done nothing but super heavy lifts your whole career, you might benefit from a switch to volume-based training.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think I'm going to try a HLM routine, where you have a heavy day, light day, and medium day.

I typically lift as heavy as I can for most lifts because I'm a simpleton and progressive overload is easier to track when you just deal with weight.

[QUOTE=sunsean;1591522861]Yeah I think I'm going to try a HLM routine, where you have a heavy day, light day, and medium day.

I typically lift as heavy as I can for most lifts because I'm a simpleton and progressive overload is easier to track when you just deal with weight.[/QUOTE]

I love daily undulating periodisation. After some research, you might decide to put 'heavy' in between light and medium. There's a ton of research on DUP, especially by a guy named Zourdos.

[QUOTE=sunsean;1591488901]I've heard that as you get older, training with lighter intensity for more volume can be beneficial as it allows similar gains/hypertrophy but with less stress on your body?

I'm 39 halfway to 40...after lifting since my 20s, I've got some kinks here and there like anyone. Thinking of adopting this approach a bit more in the near future. Sometimes pushing those super heavy weights for 3-5 reps is just SO taxing I feel like I need a week to recover.

Anyone else adopt higher volume training with good results, e.g. it didn't make you lose a ton of mass?

Or is the answer to keep the intensity up but take more rest days?

Don't get me wrong, I actually feel great overall, fit and healthy, but I do notice that I don't "bounce" back as quickly if that makes sense...[/QUOTE] I switched to a routine that mixes heavy days with iso hold and lighter forced reps and I really like the variety. I feel pretty good usually.

[youtube]2yfZMtAt-O8[/youtube]

I did sheiko 29 and 32 years ago. Less intensity and ridiculous volume. 15 sets of deadlifts for example. Also have done german volume training. Gained size on gvt but got weaker. On sheiko got bigger and stronger and developed 3 different shoulder issues.

Lately I start with a core compound like squat. Ramp up to a few work sets of 8rpe doubles or singles, then do one or two sets of amrap at 10+ reps. Then I do two sets of accessories for 5-10 depending on the mood. And concludes that body part. Since I do anterior /posterior, I'll follow that premise twice in a session and I do anterior twice weekly, and posterior twice as well. The weekly volume is decent and has been a good mix of higher and lower rep ranges. Since I stay relatively lean year round, it keeps me healthy and I can, albeit slowly, progress on totals.

Just what works for me lately.

I'm more about frequency now.

The sooner you switch from max heavy to some other form of muscle adaptation strategy the better off you will be as you get into your 50s and beyond.

[QUOTE=SR800;1591590531]The sooner you switch from max heavy to some other form of muscle adaptation strategy the better off you will be as you get into your 50s and beyond.[/QUOTE]

Yes!

Doing something is always better than doing nothing.

Absolutely nothing wrong with dropping intensity and increasing volume.

And nothing wring with increasing intensity, either.

It depends on the individual and the individual's goals. And as we age, it will also depend on how 'broken' we are.

As of me, I do not max out as often as I did when I was younger. I have been focusing on quality lifts at doubles and triples based on the Prilepin chart.

[QUOTE=drudixon;1591565411]I did sheiko 29 and 32 years ago. Less intensity and ridiculous volume. 15 sets of deadlifts for example. Also have done german volume training. Gained size on gvt but got weaker. On sheiko got bigger and stronger and developed 3 different shoulder issues.

Lately I start with a core compound like squat. Ramp up to a few work sets of 8rpe doubles or singles, then do one or two sets of amrap at 10+ reps. Then I do two sets of accessories for 5-10 depending on the mood. And concludes that body part. Since I do anterior /posterior, I'll follow that premise twice in a session and I do anterior twice weekly, and posterior twice as well. The weekly volume is decent and has been a good mix of higher and lower rep ranges. Since I stay relatively lean year round, it keeps me healthy and I can, albeit slowly, progress on totals.

Just what works for me lately.[/QUOTE]
Did you train using the Sheiko method 32 years ago?
Are you a weightlifter from Kazakhstan or what?

[QUOTE=Oleg1975K;1591593751]Did you train using the Sheiko method 32 years ago?
Are you a weightlifter from Kazakhstan or what?[/QUOTE]

Sheikos programs are numbered not named.

[QUOTE=drudixon;1591594161]Sheikos programs are numbered not named.[/QUOTE]
30 years ago Sheiko did not train powerlifters at all, he trained weightlifters. His career as a trainer in powerlifting began in 1990. This is according to his official biography. And he published standard plans later, in the 2000s. That's why I ask ...

[QUOTE=Oleg1975K;1591599461]30 years ago Sheiko did not train powerlifters at all, he trained weightlifters. His career as a trainer in powerlifting began in 1990. This is according to his official biography. And he published standard plans later, in the 2000s. That's why I ask ...[/QUOTE]

He’s not saying he did it 32 years ago. He’s saying that years ago he did sheiko 32.

[QUOTE=Corbets;1591603551]He’s not saying he did it 32 years ago. He’s saying that years ago he did sheiko 32.[/QUOTE]
Sheiko "32"?
Interesting numbering ...
Some old-timers say that Sheiko does not write standard plans at all, while others sound the names of programs unusual for Russian hearing. )))

I did sheiko 350 years ago.

And back then it was pronounced "TREE FIDDY."

[QUOTE=drudixon;1591565411]I did sheiko 29 and 32 years ago... ...[/QUOTE]

[color=red][b]B-[/b] Slovenly punctuation. Add a comma to avoid ambiguity. It's not that you have let us down, rather you have let yourself down drudixon. Must try harder in class! [/color]

[quote=norwichgrad;1591606541]i did sheiko 350 years ago.

And back then it was pronounced "tree fiddy."[/quote]

lmao

Just came back and saw this thread - thanks for all the tips and insight guys. Sounds like I'm going to play around with periodization tactics moving forward...some variation of the heavy/light/medium protocol will work I think.

[QUOTE=Marius_Ursus;1591651281]lmao[/QUOTE]
Very funny, ****ing ...
There are no numbering programs in Sheiko's original books.
There are plans written for different levels of athletes:
beginners (начинающие)
secondary (разрядники)
advanced (КМС-МС)
the elite (МС-МСМК)
This is for you, English speakers, translated them like that (with numbering).
Find the primary sources before including categorical.
I never blow air just like that, man.
Учи матчасть (с)

With regards to Sheiko ... This is a super- trainer, no doubt. But Russian coaches and athletes rightly criticized him for too simple a transfer of the Medvedev-Plukfelder system to powerlifting. And he, by the way, adjusted these plans for mass athletes a little later. Weightlifting is a speed-power sport, powerlifting is a manifestation of absolute strength.
In general, we have many other options for performing the old school of weightlifting, for the manifestation of the maximums in powerlifting, not known to english and american athletes. Some of them are publicly available (the so-called Verkhoshansky peak (in fact, from the first USSR champion in heavy weight lifting Valery Shchedrin) or the Russian Medvedev cycle (in fact, Chernyak’s plan) and others. Some “secrets” are kept inside there are other coaches at my school. I personally knew about 20-25 years ago with a coach who trained in the same youth team with Vasily Alekseev, he also wrote these plans to my friends in %%. I really wanted to find them, but the person is no longer there, and the students lost these old records. Too bad, of course ...

[QUOTE=Oleg1975K;1591677141]With regards to Sheiko ... This is a super- trainer, no doubt. But Russian coaches and athletes rightly criticized him for too simple a transfer of the Medvedev-Plukfelder system to powerlifting. And he, by the way, adjusted these plans for mass athletes a little later. Weightlifting is a speed-power sport, powerlifting is a manifestation of absolute strength.
In general, we have many other options for performing the old school of weightlifting, for the manifestation of the maximums in powerlifting, not known to english and american athletes. Some of them are publicly available (the so-called Verkhoshansky peak (in fact, from the first USSR champion in heavy weight lifting Valery Shchedrin) or the Russian Medvedev cycle (in fact, Chernyak’s plan) and others. Some “secrets” are kept inside there are other coaches at my school. I personally knew about 20-25 years ago with a coach who trained in the same youth team with Vasily Alekseev, he also wrote these plans to my friends in %%. I really wanted to find them, but the person is no longer there, and the students lost these old records. Too bad, of course ...[/QUOTE]

The history and theory is great, but to quote klokov, these training methods are not for the traditional American athlete. Average genetics, jobs and families aren't conducive to Russian elite training, a lesson I learned the hard way as my body fell apart.

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1591643891][color=red][b]B-[/b] Slovenly punctuation. Add a comma to avoid ambiguity. It's not that you have let us down, rather you have let yourself down drudixon. Must try harder in class! [/color][/QUOTE]

BRB doing 20 sets of bench press as punishment.

I've always been into volume, in my teens there was no Internet so I just followed the pro routines and bro splits in Muscle & Fitness, Muscle Mag and Flex.

Now I know better, but when I decrease volume I feel like I'm not doing enough.

I've had a few niggling injuries this year and I don't know if it's related to age, or trying to combine too much volume together with too much intensity. Recently I've been forcing myself to do less volume to see what difference it makes.

I may well decrease the weight and increase the volume depending on results. Sometimes I think it's good to mix these things up just to keep your workouts fresh.

Whenever I workout in the 5 and below rep range, I end up aggravating something within a 1-2 months of using that rep range. I primarily stay in the 8-12 rep range now. I've been lifting fairly seriously for about 6 yrs now.

IMO is keeping the intensity up on what ever style training you choose.
Even as an older lifter you need intensity on every set past warmups.
And i agree more rest days and less days of intense training.
On those off days though some form of low intensity active recovery should still be in your training.
Things like walking,biking,swimming at a low intensity steady state(LISS) pace to help recovery from your intense training program.

FWIW... The general theory is that as you get older recovering from volume gets harder at a faster rate than recovering from intensity.. according to Dr Sullivan anyway (The barbell prescription).

So it makes me wonder, do we need more volume due to increasing biological age, or is it instead the increasing training age?

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1591834891]FWIW... The general theory is that as you get older recovering from volume gets harder at a faster rate than recovering from intensity.. according to Dr Sullivan anyway (The barbell prescription).

So it makes me wonder, do we need more volume due to increasing biological age, or is it instead the increasing training age?[/QUOTE]
Volume and intensity are two sides of the same coin. By reducing the intensity, you can increase the volume and vice versa. We should just be able to use these tools.

[QUOTE=drudixon;1591711691]The history and theory is great, but to quote klokov, these training methods are not for the traditional American athlete. Average genetics, jobs and families aren't conducive to Russian elite training, a lesson I learned the hard way as my body fell apart.[/QUOTE]
Where can I see the electronic version of Sheiko's books in English?

[QUOTE=OldFartTom;1591834891]

So it makes me wonder, do we need more volume due to increasing biological age, or is it instead the increasing training age?[/QUOTE]
Both!

Training age of course requires more to progress past a novice stage and as we age we become “anabolic resistant” and may need more protein and more volume than we did in our 20’s.

I think the correct answer is that it varies. Its certainly important to avoid injuries.

I've cut my volume (2 work sets) and frequency lately. Recovery is much better. Dropping protein also. It's making me fat.

Different strokes.

Lighter weights and a few more reps.problem solved.I mix it up regularly.Works like a charm.

[QUOTE=drkelly74;1591831661]Whenever I workout in the 5 and below rep range, I end up aggravating something within a 1-2 months of using that rep range. I primarily stay in the 8-12 rep range now. I've been lifting fairly seriously for about 6 yrs now.[/QUOTE]

I’ve had a similar experience.