This is interesting
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/2744995.stm[/url]
Later
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This is interesting
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/2744995.stm[/url]
Later
I am just not buying it. We beat outselves up to try and develop an oral based delivery system that will provide even a modest increase in anabolism/free hormone and these jokers are trying to say that trace amounts of nandrolone in a ECA supplement might cause them to test positive? Please
EDog
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by EDog [/i]
[B]I am just not buying it. We beat outselves up to try and develop an oral based delivery system that will provide even a modest increase in anabolism/free hormone and these jokers are trying to say that trace amounts of nandrolone in a ECA supplement might cause them to test positive? Please
EDog [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sceptical myself. Why would supplement companies do it.
It is almost certainly not intentional, just a matter of contamination or so they say. Again, I think the whole thing is pretty crazy. Wonder why nandrolone?? That is an odd compound to find trace amounts of unless it is found in a binder or something.
EDog
Nandrolone will show up on a test even if a very little is ingested. Then again its probaly BS to try to cover for steriod use.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by LostProphet [/i]
[B]This is interesting
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/2744995.stm[/url]
Later [/B][/QUOTE]
YOu are misreading the story. The dietary supplements are contaminated with traces of nandrolone PRECURSORS, not nandrolone itself.
This is not news. Dozens of athletes have tested positive because of this trace contamination of supplements with prohormones within the last few years.
The cause is poor quality control between batches of prohormone products and non-prohormone products, resulting in cross contamination.
It takes only a miniscule amount of nor prohormones to make someone test positive for nandrolone BTW. Far less than one milligram even.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Patrick Arnold [/i]
[B]YOu are misreading the story. The dietary supplements are contaminated with traces of nandrolone PRECURSORS, not nandrolone itself.
This is not news. Dozens of athletes have tested positive because of this trace contamination of supplements with prohormones within the last few years.
The cause is poor quality control between batches of prohormone products and non-prohormone products, resulting in cross contamination.
It takes only a miniscule amount of nor prohormones to make someone test positive for nandrolone BTW. Far less than one milligram even. [/B][/QUOTE]
I apologise
Later
I wish I could get someone to accidentally put some Nandrolone in my protein powder, ha! Wouldn't find me complaining.
So then the nandrolone metabolites are excreted in the urine then and that is what is causing the positive test? Again, out of the 600+ supplements tested, a large percentage of the companies must have a nordiol product on the market and over 15% of the total supplements tested had traces of nordiol in them? Man, the producers must really not clean their equipment and then keep sprinkling nordiol all over the place to freshen the air. I am not buying this one. Although if less than 1 mg will cause a positive test, what do I know...1 mg of contaminant seems like quite a lot for a lot of 150,000 pill run though, which is sort of the minimum for those things.
EDog
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by EDog [/i]
[B]So then the nandrolone metabolites are excreted in the urine then and that is what is causing the positive test? Again, out of the 600+ supplements tested, a large percentage of the companies must have a nordiol product on the market and over 15% of the total supplements tested had traces of nordiol in them? Man, the producers must really not clean their equipment and then keep sprinkling nordiol all over the place to freshen the air. I am not buying this one. Although if less than 1 mg will cause a positive test, what do I know...1 mg of contaminant seems like quite a lot for a lot of 150,000 pill run though, which is sort of the minimum for those things.
EDog [/B][/QUOTE]
I said much less than 1mg. 1/100th of a milligram will give a positive. And companies generally do not produce their own products, they have contract manufacturers produce them for them. And these places produce products for dozens of companies.
Please don't question this. I am telling you point blank exactly what happens, and this phenomenon is real. I am intimately familiar with the whole issue
--------------
JAMA 2000 Nov 22-29;284(20):2618-21 Related Articles, Links
Trace contamination of over-the-counter androstenedione and positive urine test results for a nandrolone metabolite.
Catlin DH, Leder BZ, Ahrens B, Starcevic B, Hatton CK, Green GA, Finkelstein JS.
UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory, 2122 Granville Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90025, USA. [email]dcatlin@ucla.edu[/email]
"For the 4 participants to whom 10 microg of 19-norandrostenedione was administered, 19-norandrosterone was found in all urine samples"
It makes sense, an alarming number of football (or soccer if you will) players tested positive for nandrolone - suspiciously a whole bunch of Dutch national team players tested positive and everyone thought something was amiss - if cross-contamination is that easy and that little amount is required then any number of regular dietary supplements could have been the culprit.
Those tests must be damn accurate if only 1/100th miligram is ingested. Also that 1/100th of a miligram will be spread throughout the supplement I presume and will be ingested gradually, so those tests must be very very sensitive.
Later
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by LostProphet [/i]
[B]Those tests must be damn accurate if only 1/100th miligram is ingested. Also that 1/100th of a miligram will be spread throughout the supplement I presume and will be ingested gradually, so those tests must be very very sensitive.
Later [/B][/QUOTE]
The tests for nandrolone metabolites is extraordinarily sensitive. A norandrosterone (marker metabolite of nandrolone) level of 2 billionths of a gram per mL of urine can easily be detected and is enough to give you a nandrolone positive.
Ok, I defer to Pat then since he is way more of an expert than I am. Do these tests ever take into account the quantity of Nandrolone metabolites? Is Nortestosterone at all naturally occuring in humans? I didn't think so, but it seems like steroid chemestry is still somewhat of a mystery as far as conversions go. Still, I thought nordiol cleared the body quite rapidly and even read that it could be used to help mask Nandrolone usage.
EDog
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by EDog [/i]
[B]Ok, I defer to Pat then since he is way more of an expert than I am. Do these tests ever take into account the quantity of Nandrolone metabolites? Is Nortestosterone at all naturally occuring in humans? I didn't think so, but it seems like steroid chemestry is still somewhat of a mystery as far as conversions go. Still, I thought nordiol cleared the body quite rapidly and even read that it could be used to help mask Nandrolone usage.
EDog [/B][/QUOTE]
Certainly nordiol will not mask nandrolone usage.
Nordiol does clear the system quickly, but such things eliminate from the body exponentially, so even after an extended time there is still a wee bit left - enough to cause a positive for a while
Nandrolone does occur in pregnant women, and its thought that it might occur in men under special physiological conditions. Still, the low cutoff remains. The cutoffs for the two nandrolone metabolites are
norandrosterone - 2ng per mL
noretiocholanolone - 4ng per mL
or it may be the other way around. don't recall exactly
this is old news indeed. university athletes are all told of the dangers of taking otc supplements that might have trace amounts illegal substances. a gymnast from the last olympics was disqualified, cuz he took nitro tech. HBO did a story on this, and like PA says, quality control must be low at some of these companies that produce prohormones and other products. there must be some contaminination.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by institutional [/i]
[B] a gymnast from the last olympics was disqualified, cuz he took nitro tech. [/B][/QUOTE]
It was a male bobsledder from last years winter games that got a positive from contaminated Nitro Tech
The gymnast that was disqualified in 2000 was a romanian girl that took cold medicine containing pseudoephedrine
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Patrick Arnold [/i]
[B]It was a male bobsledder from last years winter games that got a positive from contaminated Nitro Tech
The gymnast that was disqualified in 2000 was a romanian girl that took cold medicine containing pseudoephedrine [/B][/QUOTE]
i was close :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Patrick Arnold [/i]
[B]It was a male bobsledder from last years winter games that got a positive from contaminated Nitro Tech[/B][/QUOTE]
HBO Real Sports did a spot on the bosledder about 1-2 years ago. For the story, they tested 3 containers of Nitrotech (1 bought in LA, 1 bought in NY and 1 bought in CO). All three containers tested positive for something like 3 or 4 precursors (4-AD, 19-Nor, along with 2 others).
MT claimed the lab botched the testing.
Ok, I suppose if I was a Romanian Bobsledder I would care more... ;) Hopefully my urine is filled to the rim with nandrolone metabolites since I am on transdermal Nordiol right now. It's interesting, but means nothing to me. I should probably have my product tested for nordiol before I give it to professionals... This intersting and does make one wonder about the quality control of the industry. It is hard to ensure a quality product though, trust me I know the pitfalls.
EDog