Nothing beats the ability to cure sickness with exercise.
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Nothing beats the ability to cure sickness with exercise.
Especially mental illnesses! Depression and anxiety!!!
[QUOTE=BlackJack619;1538745381]Nothing beats the ability to cure sickness with exercise.[/QUOTE]
Generally-speaking, exercise does not [I]cure[/I] sickness.
It may contribute to [I]preventing [/I]it.
[QUOTE=KyleAaron;1538868261]Generally-speaking, exercise does not [I]cure[/I] sickness.
It may contribute to [I]preventing [/I]it.[/QUOTE]
Yo you ain't wrong!
Cure is a bit strong. Perhaps you mean treat?
Exercise can treat some symptoms, but it can never fully prevent an illness or condition from returning because of the fact that you must continue doing it, ergo it is a type of treatment. To be cured of something means that thing is gone for good and no further treatment or therapy of that application is required. A switch to preventive treatment may then be initiated, which is the category exercise typically falls under.
I'd like to think exercise can prevent a lot of negative crap, maybe cure is too strong of a word, but I just finished reading a book called the exercise cure, so maybe I am a bit bias towards exercise and proper nutrition being able to prevent sickness
You do understand the difference between prevention and cure?
It's like understanding the difference between looking both ways before you cross the road, and being in intensive care in the hospital.
[QUOTE=BlackJack619;1540267661]I'd like to think exercise can prevent a lot of negative crap, maybe cure is too strong of a word, but I just finished reading a book called the exercise cure, so maybe I am a bit bias towards exercise and proper nutrition being able to prevent sickness[/QUOTE]
I think I understand what you are saying. You are referring to the occurrence of obesity (epidemic) and not the condition itself. You are saying exercise may be the reason Americans, as a whole, in the U.S. get rid of obesity as an epidemic (cure it), much like it was in the 1900's, or like it currently is in other nations.
On this, I would agree. It certainly could.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540317991]I think I understand what you are saying. You are referring to the occurrence of obesity (epidemic) and not the condition itself. You are saying [b]exercise[/b] may be the reason Americans, as a whole, in the U.S. get rid of obesity as an epidemic (cure it), much like it was in the 1900's, or like it currently is in other nations.
On this, I would agree. It certainly could.[/QUOTE]
Have to disagree.
Americans that are obese can exercise all they want, but it's not going to help anything if they don't stop eating more calories than they burn - no amount of exercise is going to cure that.
[QUOTE=401Delta;1540500881]Have to disagree.
Americans that are obese can exercise all they want, but it's not going to help anything if they don't stop eating more calories than they burn - no amount of exercise is going to cure that.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure you have an opinion, but what you said makes zero sense.
[I]
Americans can exercise 'all they want' but it won't help anything if they don't stop eating more calories 'than they burn'... no amount of exercise is going to cure that,[/I]
First off.. exercise is the only method of burning calories. You are saying that no matter how many calories someone burns during exercise it won't help unless they burn more calories than they eat. So, if someone has a 3500/cal day and doesn't exercise, it is the same as having a 3500/cal day and burning 1000 cals a day?? If someone has a reduction of 1000 calories a day, it won't help them lose weight? Is this really what you are advocating?
Skip dinner every night and I guarantee you will lose weight.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540548021]I'm sure you have an opinion, but what you said makes zero sense.
[I]
Americans can exercise 'all they want' but it won't help anything if they don't stop eating more calories 'than they burn'... no amount of exercise is going to cure that,[/I]
First off.. exercise is the only method of burning calories. You are saying that no matter how many calories someone burns during exercise it won't help unless they burn more calories than they eat. So, if someone has a 3500/cal day and doesn't exercise, it is the same as having a 3500/cal day and burning 1000 cals a day?? If someone has a reduction of 1000 calories a day, it won't help them lose weight? Is this really what you are advocating?
Skip dinner every night and I guarantee you will lose weight.[/QUOTE]What I said makes perfect sense...[B]IF YOU EAT MORE CALORIES EVERYDAY THAN YOU BURN EVERYDAY YOU WILL NOT LOSE WEIGHT[/B].
I will use your example...
Let's say Mary eats 3500 k/cal everyday sitting on the couch all day...if her total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) is only 2000 k/cal, then [b]SHE WILL GAIN WEIGHT[/b].
Now let's say Mary eats 3500 k/cal everyday [b][i]and[/i][/b] exercises for 3 hours each day burning an [b][i]extra[/i][/b] 1000 k/calories increasing her TDEE to 3000 k/cal, then [B]SHE WILL STILL GAIN WEIGHT[/B].
I hope that's clear enough for you. And 'exercise' isn't the only thing that burns calories; everything we do (eating, sleeping, me typing this, etc.) burns calories and most people, including personal trainers, overestimate the amount of calories that are actually burned during their 'exercise' session.
Bottom line...if you want to lose weight, you need to eat less than you burn, as I previously stated, regardless if some of the calories burned are from exercise or not.
I don't think Ronin disagrees, he just didn't read carefully.
It's all theoretical anyway, genuinely obese people rarely lose weight for more than six months at a time - so if you train one, take progress pics at month one and month six, then send them on their way before they have a chance to backslide and make you look bad.
Or be like me and just don't train people for weight loss.
[QUOTE=KyleAaron;1540566521]I don't think Ronin disagrees, he just didn't read carefully.
It's all theoretical anyway, genuinely obese people rarely lose weight for more than six months at a time - so if you train one, take progress pics at month one and month six, then send them on their way before they have a chance to backslide and make you look bad.
Or be like me and just don't train people for weight loss.[/QUOTE]
I read it carefully. Perhaps too carefully. His message was that unless a person eats less than he burns, it will not matter. So, the point being there must exist a caloric deficit (we are now back at 'Introductory to Biology' from the sixth grade).
To show up with this as the message is a bit elementary. There isn't a personal trainer in the entire world who has not come to grips with the notion that people need to burn more calories than they consume. So of course, that part makes sense. The part that does not make any sense is the notion that it doesn't matter how much exercise a person does. It does matter, regardless of how much you eat. Here's why...
There is a maximum to the number of daily caloric assimilation. A person can eat all day but the body will only assimilate that in which it needs and will store only that in which it feels is adequate for future metabolic processes. The rest is disposed. However, there is no maximum to the number of caloric expenditure. The more exercise a person does, the more cellular metabolic conditions go from anabolism to catabolism (e.g. marathon runners).
[QUOTE=401Delta;1540564551]What I said makes perfect sense...[B]IF YOU EAT MORE CALORIES EVERYDAY THAN YOU BURN EVERYDAY YOU WILL NOT LOSE WEIGHT[/B].
I will use your example...
Let's say Mary eats 3500 k/cal everyday sitting on the couch all day...if her total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) is only 2000 k/cal, then [b]SHE WILL GAIN WEIGHT[/b].
Now let's say Mary eats 3500 k/cal everyday [b][i]and[/i][/b] exercises for 3 hours each day burning an [b][i]extra[/i][/b] 1000 k/calories increasing her TDEE to 3000 k/cal, then [B]SHE WILL STILL GAIN WEIGHT[/B].
I hope that's clear enough for you. And 'exercise' isn't the only thing that burns calories; everything we do (eating, sleeping, me typing this, etc.) burns calories and most people, including personal trainers, overestimate the amount of calories that are actually burned during their 'exercise' session.
Bottom line...if you want to lose weight, you need to eat less than you burn, as I previously stated, regardless if some of the calories burned are from exercise or not.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say exercise is the only way to burn calories. I said exercise is the only method in which we burn calories. Google the word 'method' for its definition. Metabolism is not considered a method. It is a biological disposition or natural process.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540548021]First off.. exercise is the [b][i]only[/i][/b] method of burning calories.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540576051]I didn't say exercise is the only way to burn calories.[/QUOTE]
Um, okay.
[QUOTE=401Delta;1540593531]Um, okay.[/QUOTE]
You conveniently left out the entire context...
"I didn't say exercise is the only way to burn calories. I said exercise is the only [B]method[/B] in which we burn calories."
Method: systematic planning or action. (Google)
401, You don't actually think the points you are making are unknown to almost everyone who lives do you?
[I]"You must eat fewer calories than you burn. Ok, that will be $60 please."
"I am burning calories just typing this. I also burnt some calories when I slept last night. I can't wait to share this with Ronin. He is going to be floored.'[/I]
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540575771]There is a maximum to the number of daily caloric assimilation. A person can eat all day but the body will only assimilate that in which it needs and will store only that in which it feels is adequate for future metabolic processes. The rest is disposed. However, there is no maximum to the number of caloric expenditure.[/QUOTE]
This is not a practical argument.
While there may be a limit to the number of calories that can actually be assimilated on a daily basis, that number is going to be [b][i]more[/i][/b] than an obese individual is going to [b][i]want[/i][/b] to burn through exercise (and in 99% of the cases impossible before they drop dead of a heart attack first anyways).
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540596481]You conveniently left out the entire context...
"I didn't say exercise is the only way to burn calories. I said exercise is the only [B]method[/B] in which we burn calories."
Method: systematic planning or action. (Google)[/QUOTE]
Synonym for method: way
Synonym for way: method
Source: Thesaurus
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540596481]401, You don't actually think the points you are making are unknown to almost everyone who lives do you?[/QUOTE]
Obviously they aren't known to everyone or there wouldn't be so many overweight people thinking an hour of HIIT everyday, etc. is going to overcome their steady surplus in calories, including [i]many[/i] personal trainers out there.
[QUOTE=401Delta;1540599251]
Obviously they aren't known to everyone or there wouldn't be so many overweight people thinking an hour of HIIT everyday, etc. is going to overcome their steady surplus in calories, including [i]many[/i] personal trainers out there.[/QUOTE]
What?? You actually believe obese people are stupid?
"Excuse me sir, you may want to put that cigarette out. Cigarettes cause cancer. That will be $60 please."
Knowledge is only power if one decides to exercise that power (no pun intended)
[QUOTE=KyleAaron;1540566521]It's all theoretical anyway, genuinely obese people rarely lose weight for more than six months at a time - so if you train one, take progress pics at month one and month six, then send them on their way before they have a chance to backslide and make you look bad.
Or be like me and just don't train people for weight loss.[/QUOTE]I concur with this...as much as I would love to change the world one fat person at a time, it's often just an exercise in frustration trying to motivate them to change their life choices.
It takes a rare talent to successfully train obese people. Most trainers do not have the skillset to change the mind. They typically only possess the ability to educate the mind. The problem is that obese people have too much faith in the profession of personal training. They don't ask for help from the right people. But the profession of personal training is like any other profession, there are the elite and then there is everyone else.
If your son gets arrested for shop lifting, you can probably hire just about any lawyer you find online. However, if he gets arrested for double homicide, you better try to find the best lawyer out there.
Obese people need to find really good trainers who can teach them how to change their own mindsets because this is the only path to success.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540608581]It takes a rare talent to successfully train obese people. Most trainers do not have the skillset to change the mind. They typically only possess the ability to educate the mind. [/QUOTE]
This is correct. But I'm not sure that [i]anyone[/i] has the talent or skillset to successfully train obese people. Basically every study shows - they lose the most weight by six months in, then they start sliding back. Even with gastric sleeve surgery, the success rate ("lost at least 10% of bodyweight and kept it off for three years" is the usual definition in such studies) is only 25%. That is, 75% of people find a way to be obese with a stomach the size of a tennis ball.
Put another way: weight loss clients make good repeat customers, just maybe not repeating with that particular trainer.
So I focus on strength, it lasts longer.
Speaking generally, not to Ronin in particular: And I do something that no doctor I know of does, and almost no trainer: I follow up. 3, 6 and 12 months after I last saw them, I message or call them and ask how they're going, if they're still lifting and so on. And I find this is basically a function of how long they worked with me. If it was 3 months or less, only 10% are still lifting 12 months later; if it's 12 or more months, it's 90%. Now, how much they're lifting is another matter - but they're doing the movements with something more than the load they used on day one.
If your clients leave after 6 months and you never talk to them again, you might assume that what you did worked; this is why there are so many ineffective physiotherapy and surgical treatments out there that keep being used. So, follow up on your clients some time after, then you find out if what you did worked long-term.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540608581]Obese people need to find really good trainers who can teach them how to change their own mindsets because this is the [b][i]only[/i][/b] path to success.[/QUOTE]
Well, look at that, we finally agree that exercise alone will not cure the obesity epidemic ;).
[QUOTE=KyleAaron;1540614271]Speaking generally, not to Ronin in particular: And I do something that no doctor I know of does, and almost no trainer: I follow up. 3, 6 and 12 months after I last saw them...[/QUOTE]
This is what top sales people do. Top sales people understand the human element to marketing. That is to say, to be great at sales you must continue to place yourself in the consumers mind because the consumer will evict you from their mind the moment you are not around. It is this continual product/service placement that leads to an eventual sale. Thus the reason the most successful companies in the world air the same ads over and over and over again.
I do not know if you learned this from someone or if it came natural but it is a very smart thing to do.
[QUOTE=401Delta;1540615901]Well, look at that, we finally agree that exercise alone will not cure the obesity epidemic ;).[/QUOTE]
All cures start with hope. Nothing is cured rooted in pessimism. Running around telling people what they can't do serves no one but yourself. If young people come here with the type of hopes and excitement that the OP expressed, hell, I say more power to him. As previously stated, its all theory anyway. And theoretically speaking, exercise can certainly cure obesity as an occurrence. No doubt about it. If all obese people worked out rigorously every day , it will bring with it everything else... the desire to not waste all that time at the gym by wanting to eat better... their mindset will adapt to this new lifestyle...their attitude and eating habits will change and they will become fit in the mind as well as the body...
...all from exercising.
If you don't believe in this, you are in the wrong business.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540617291]Nothing is cured rooted in pessimism.[/QUOTE]
I've read some of your posts here; perhaps you might consider heeding your own advice :).
[QUOTE=401Delta;1540618531]I've read some of your posts here; perhaps you might consider heeding your own advice :).[/QUOTE]
I wasn't giving you advice. I was stating a fact.
I always expose the stupid, self serving crap people post for precisely what it is...stupid and self serving. However, the OP was expressing optimism, excitement and hope for the future of his beloved industry...but you decided to come here to educate us all by telling us that people will never lose weight if they eat more than they burn. WTF????
Sometimes I hope people don't come here and read some of this stuff because it's embarrassing.
If people don't want me to be mean, stop posting stupid crap. Actually take 5 minutes and compose an intelligent thought.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540622151]I always expose [b][i]what I feel is[/i][/b] the stupid, self serving crap people post for precisely what it is...stupid and self serving. Sometimes I hope people don't come here and read some of this stuff because [b][i]I feel that[/i][/b] it's embarrassing.
If people don't want me to be mean, stop posting [b][i]what I feel is [/i][/b]stupid crap.[/QUOTE]
Fixed it for you ;).
I'm going to start calling you Mr. Obvious.
It's a forum post with adjectives. Whenever one uses an adjective or a series of adjectives, the state of opinion is implied.
There is a reason Mother's Day cups and cards don't read ('World's Greatest Mom!....IMO)
If you guys have Netflix watch this movie called fat sick and nearly dead it's about a dude who was fat sick and nearly dead who was cured by changing his mindset and going on a juicing diet.
[QUOTE=Ronin4help;1540616281]I do not know if you learned this from someone or if it came natural but it is a very smart thing to do.[/QUOTE]
I just wanted numbers. My original idea way back when I started as a trainer was that I'd train people for 3-6 months then they'd have the tools to do things on their own. Of course as the years went by I realised it's not just the technical tools, or even the programming, and even if it was, many people have no interest in that. It's also the feeling they get from the process, the community and so on. But then, almost everyone quits eventually, for whatever reason, so I thought: okay, how many have used the tools we gave them? So I asked. I was conservative in how I counted them, if they didn't call back or reply to their emails I assumed they'd stopped.
So I was genuinely curious, and hoping that I'd hear everyone was absolutely smashing it on their own.
And of course, people do come back - "actually, I was just thinking of -" - or they refer you family and friends. Just today I got money in my account from a young woman, sister of a guy I first trained in 2011, he reappeared every now and then over the years, still lifting - squatting 80kg rather than the 120kg he did last I trained him, but hey, still squatting - and last September he brought his sister for a visit, just to learn to lift, since she lives in another state. She came back for a second visit a couple of weeks back and yesterday signed up for distance training.
It's the kind of marketing I like, because it's not the hard-sell, it's not in your face. It's just, "Hey, it's Kyle, I was looking through old journals today and saw yours, I was wondering how you're going with that degree/job? Yeah? And are you still lifting or did we traumatise you too much?" They're usually happy to hear from us and chat a bit. The few who weren't happy or didn't reply are just those I'd expected - the ones who quit without notice, just stopped showing up one day, that sort of thing.
A couple of times a year I have a bbq and I invite all current and former members. It's nice for the current members to meet the old ones and know there's a history to the place, "Wow, you used to just have a set of squat stands?"
As you say, it's good business-sense to do this, but I do like to know how people are going. Then I can think back - did I expect them to keep training? And the ones who kept training vs those who didn't, had I trained them differently? So then I learn more about the sorts of personalities that stick with things, and the sorts of training approaches that help them stick or make them quit. Reflecting on this helps me when a prospective client contacts me or walks in the gym.