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The forum limit has been reached on part two. Here is the new thread.
Link to part 1: [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=70778&page=1[/url]
Link to part 2: [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149942713&page=1[/url]
Thank you to everyone who has participated in the older threads. Let's change our lives, impact others and improve our relationships with food.
Thanks.
Reposting most recent item as it was cut off:
[B]Originally Posted by clk99[/B]
"So after relapsing I'm finding myself at my lowest point ever at <125 lbs and reaping the physical consequences of officially being "underweight"...awaiting bloodwork results now to see what's going on in my body. A lot of the issues and symptoms I've been having lately are big indicators of some medical conditions (mainly low blood sugar) so I'm anxious to find out.
But this is the first time I've actually given in to the decision of gaining weight. I'm small, can't gain muscle, and frequently feel weak and drained- both physically and mentally. With my parents and my dr knowing that I'm underweight I have to be accountable anyway, and I've been told to limit exercise and start eating around the clock- which hasn't been that hard for me to accept, it's just a big lifestyle change since I'd normally do lots of cardio and restrict until dinnertime on a daily basis.
Sorry if you've already posted here about it before, I know Adam and Grappa have but idk how to dig up those posts. But for those of you who've gone through it, what is to be expected in the early stages of recovery/refeeding/etc? Constant eating and no cardio or lifting allowed? Just no cardio? A limited mix of both, just going by how you feel day-to-day? I don't compel myself to exercise if I feel weak anymore, which is both a major step and kind of necessary now because of how weak I feel sometimes. I get depressed if I just sit around all day so I like to get out and do moderate activity just for my mental health if I'm up to it...but when it comes to lifting, I have little to no motivation at all most days. This is probably part of my ED speaking here, but I desperately want to channel my caloric surplus to building muscle. My arms are thin and the last thing I want is a skinny-fat physique with thin arms and a big gut. I don't know if it's true or not that I'll end up this way if I don't work out consistently. My thoughts are just influenced by the statements you find in internet articles that say you need to do X amount of strength training per week to gain weight healthily.
And then with food...I don't know much about the science of it, but I'm convinced I messed up my hormones and hunger signals with my restricting patterns. I never feel full, yet sometimes I'm unsure if I'm actually hungry either. I never feel satiated though, I have to distract myself with something like going on a walk to stop eating or wanting food. I often find myself mentally hating food but physically wanting more. Do you just keep eating in these situations?
Sorry if my questions are a bit confusing and any input is much appreciated. Thoughts and prayers are with you all in your individual paths toward recovery."
[B]My response to clk:[/B]
I'll try and answer all the questions you asked with some basic advice, because it seems like what you're doing is over-complicating things, which is exactly what I do.
Sonny has provided awesome advice on how to combat this for me.
Asking questions to yourself or to others (including this forum) concerning what the 'best approach' is, or worrying about which combination of food intake/cardio/lifting will help you get through the process is likely not the best way of thinking about things. Your #1 goal is your mental health. Yes, your physical healing needs to happen, but you don't want to put a bandaid on this and expect it to get better. When you fix how you think about food and exercise, the physical changes will happen.
Case-in-point, you're still thinking about how food contributes to your fat/muscle or appearance, instead of treating food as a necessary fuel for daily life. It's only when you stop associating food with fat gain and body composition that you'll be able to objectively move forward.
Ramping down exercise is usually a good idea because, right now, you're associating the food you eat with exercise, because one is the input and the other is the output... you're doing math equations in your head as a means to CONTROL that association, and that's the problem.
What you need to do is set yourself up for success by understanding what it is you're trying to control, WHY you're trying to control it, and then removing your triggers.
I'm sure other people can explain more eloquently, but that's what I've experienced so far. Everyone has their own pace and approach, too, so it's hard for me to give specific step by step answers.
In on the first page, I hope to better my life and help others.
Originally Posted by clk99
"So after relapsing I'm finding myself at my lowest point ever at <125 lbs and reaping the physical consequences of officially being "underweight"...awaiting bloodwork results now to see what's going on in my body. A lot of the issues and symptoms I've been having lately are big indicators of some medical conditions (mainly low blood sugar) so I'm anxious to find out.
But this is the first time I've actually given in to the decision of gaining weight. I'm small, can't gain muscle, and frequently feel weak and drained- both physically and mentally. With my parents and my dr knowing that I'm underweight I have to be accountable anyway, and I've been told to limit exercise and start eating around the clock- which hasn't been that hard for me to accept, it's just a big lifestyle change since I'd normally do lots of cardio and restrict until dinnertime on a daily basis.
Sorry if you've already posted here about it before, I know Adam and Grappa have but idk how to dig up those posts. But for those of you who've gone through it, what is to be expected in the early stages of recovery/refeeding/etc? Constant eating and no cardio or lifting allowed? Just no cardio? A limited mix of both, just going by how you feel day-to-day? I don't compel myself to exercise if I feel weak anymore, which is both a major step and kind of necessary now because of how weak I feel sometimes. I get depressed if I just sit around all day so I like to get out and do moderate activity just for my mental health if I'm up to it...but when it comes to lifting, I have little to no motivation at all most days. This is probably part of my ED speaking here, but I desperately want to channel my caloric surplus to building muscle. My arms are thin and the last thing I want is a skinny-fat physique with thin arms and a big gut. I don't know if it's true or not that I'll end up this way if I don't work out consistently. My thoughts are just influenced by the statements you find in internet articles that say you need to do X amount of strength training per week to gain weight healthily.
And then with food...I don't know much about the science of it, but I'm convinced I messed up my hormones and hunger signals with my restricting patterns. I never feel full, yet sometimes I'm unsure if I'm actually hungry either. I never feel satiated though, I have to distract myself with something like going on a walk to stop eating or wanting food. I often find myself mentally hating food but physically wanting more. Do you just keep eating in these situations?
Sorry if my questions are a bit confusing and any input is much appreciated. Thoughts and prayers are with you all in your individual paths toward recovery."
Oookay, first of all ath this phase, i know it is hard to do, but stop lifting/cardio etc. I had to do the same, cuz 1: i had 0 energy, 2: my body would been unable to handle anymore stress. I am going to tell the truth: You will, and you have to gain fat. DO not see fat as a bad thing right now, actually fat will going to save you right now. Why? It will help regulate your hunger, will going to restore your hormones etc. When i was at early refeeding, i have not even moved out of the house for 4 months i think, my only activity was to get down to the supermarket, get food and get back up. Intake wise: eat what u likes, in terms of number i was on a 2700 cal mealplan right back that time, but i have become hypermetabolic fast, cuz i have overfed myself hardcore, which is dangerous, cuz u can get RES, but at that state i was unable to control my hunger, i was always hungry no matter how much i have eaten, i dreamed about food, i have thinked about food all day. I used to be a slave of the kitchen i loved cooking, make wonderful plates etc.. This passed luckily and if i have to cook my meals now... i just throw random **** togather xD Mental relief will follow the weight gain. I am not saying that mentally you are going to be free again, you will just going to be stable. Which means: U are prbly not going to relapse, u know u'r triggers, and you can overcome your triggers. (Total mental recovery finishes 2-3 years after weight restoration, cuz of the starvation you fked up your neurotransmitters which has to be repaired). Also at this state your body comp should be the last to worry about. Lifting can wait for you, cardio also, but your health not. Yes, after the first part of my refeeding i was "skinny fat". But your body will recomp after you can start moving again.
I hope i have given you some helpful advice, but feel free to pm me, if u want to ask more questions about refeeding.
Flipping your motivations is something that has been helping me the last couple days.
Instead of thinking of controlling my bodyfat or weight + leanness with food and exercise, I'm trying to think in terms of how big I can get (in a relatively healthy way) and prove to myself, my friends, coworkers, and family that I am capable of not being scrawny. It sounds silly but I literally imagine what people's reaction will be once I pack on 20-30pounds, a lot of it muscle, walking around looking more full and strong... just have to shift the goal... seems to help me anyway.
Guess I'm in on the first page too, thanks for moving my post.
[QUOTE=AdamWW;1483985041][B]My response to clk:[/B]
I'll try and answer all the questions you asked with some basic advice, because it seems like what you're doing is over-complicating things, which is exactly what I do.
Sonny has provided awesome advice on how to combat this for me.
Asking questions to yourself or to others (including this forum) concerning what the 'best approach' is, or worrying about which combination of food intake/cardio/lifting will help you get through the process is likely not the best way of thinking about things. Your #1 goal is your mental health. Yes, your physical healing needs to happen, but you don't want to put a bandaid on this and expect it to get better. When you fix how you think about food and exercise, the physical changes will happen.
Case-in-point, you're still thinking about how food contributes to your fat/muscle or appearance, instead of treating food as a necessary fuel for daily life. It's only when you stop associating food with fat gain and body composition that you'll be able to objectively move forward.
Ramping down exercise is usually a good idea because, right now, you're associating the food you eat with exercise, because one is the input and the other is the output... you're doing math equations in your head as a means to CONTROL that association, and that's the problem.
What you need to do is set yourself up for success by understanding what it is you're trying to control, WHY you're trying to control it, and then removing your triggers.
I'm sure other people can explain more eloquently, but that's what I've experienced so far. Everyone has their own pace and approach, too, so it's hard for me to give specific step by step answers.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I've actually been breaking free of the way I view exercise for the past week and I've made incredible mental progress. Basically, I haven't used exercise as a means of creating a caloric deficit, only as a means of enjoyment and a way to get out of the house. On the other hand, lifting isn't enjoyable and (for me right now) is a way of trying to be "in control" of the way my body uses these thousands of calories I've been eating.
I suppose I should view exercise and lifting more as a hobby and less of a fitness thing. I mean, I wouldn't do a hobby if I didn't feel up to it. Is that kind of how it works in your life?
[QUOTE=Grappa;1484003471]
Oookay, first of all ath this phase, i know it is hard to do, but stop lifting/cardio etc. I had to do the same, cuz 1: i had 0 energy, 2: my body would been unable to handle anymore stress. I am going to tell the truth: You will, and you have to gain fat. DO not see fat as a bad thing right now, actually fat will going to save you right now. Why? It will help regulate your hunger, will going to restore your hormones etc. When i was at early refeeding, i have not even moved out of the house for 4 months i think, my only activity was to get down to the supermarket, get food and get back up. Intake wise: eat what u likes, in terms of number i was on a 2700 cal mealplan right back that time, but i have become hypermetabolic fast, cuz i have overfed myself hardcore, which is dangerous, cuz u can get RES, but at that state i was unable to control my hunger, i was always hungry no matter how much i have eaten, i dreamed about food, i have thinked about food all day. I used to be a slave of the kitchen i loved cooking, make wonderful plates etc.. This passed luckily and if i have to cook my meals now... i just throw random **** togather xD Mental relief will follow the weight gain. I am not saying that mentally you are going to be free again, you will just going to be stable. Which means: U are prbly not going to relapse, u know u'r triggers, and you can overcome your triggers. (Total mental recovery finishes 2-3 years after weight restoration, cuz of the starvation you fked up your neurotransmitters which has to be repaired). Also at this state your body comp should be the last to worry about. Lifting can wait for you, cardio also, but your health not. Yes, after the first part of my refeeding i was "skinny fat". But your body will recomp after you can start moving again.
I hope i have given you some helpful advice, but feel free to pm me, if u want to ask more questions about refeeding.[/QUOTE]
Gaining fat has always been my #1 fear but yeah, I'm coming to understand that I need to accept it and it [i]will[/i] happen if I want my hormones to operate normally. I used to be addicted to tracking cals so I try very hard not to think in terms of calories anymore, although I can make decent estimates...recently I've probably been doing 2500-3500 a day. Thing is, I'm rarely bloated after eating. My abs are still visible after several days of massive eating with little to no exercise. Anxious to weigh myself after a week of doing this to see if I'm actually eating enough. Thanks for the input, man. Might send you a few questions.
[QUOTE=clk99;1484009351]Guess I'm in on the first page too, thanks for moving my post.
Thanks. I've actually been breaking free of the way I view exercise for the past week and I've made incredible mental progress. Basically, I haven't used exercise as a means of creating a caloric deficit, only as a means of enjoyment and a way to get out of the house. On the other hand, lifting isn't enjoyable and (for me right now) is a way of trying to be "in control" of the way my body uses these thousands of calories I've been eating.
Gaining fat has always been my #1 fear but yeah, I'm coming to understand that I need to accept it and it [i]will[/i] happen if I want my hormones to operate normally. I used to be addicted to tracking cals so I try very hard not to think in terms of calories anymore, although I can make decent estimates...recently I've probably been doing 2500-3500 a day. Thing is, I'm rarely bloated after eating. My abs are still visible after several days of massive eating with little to no exercise. Anxious to weigh myself after a week of doing this to see if I'm actually eating enough. Thanks for the input, man.[/QUOTE]
Unless this kind of tracking helps you, it might be best to not think about the numbers at all right away... not weighing yourself or giving yourself reasons to get triggers. What if you weigh yourself and you gained 3 pounds? What would your reaction be?
[QUOTE=AdamWW;1484009771]Unless this kind of tracking helps you, it might be best to not think about the numbers at all right away... not weighing yourself or giving yourself reasons to get triggers. What if you weigh yourself and you gained 3 pounds? What would your reaction be?[/QUOTE]
Not sure honestly. There's still that little thing inside of me that doesn't want me to be over a certain weight. It depends on the circumstances I guess...if I still look okay then weight gain is easier to accept. But the fact that I feel this way is a big red flag that I won't accept it.
I've actually grown very uninterested with how I weigh in the past few months...similar to how I grew uninterested with tracking my calories. The only reason I would want to weigh myself is to see if I'm eating enough food. My parents and doctor know I'm underweight now and I don't get to be in complete control over food, weight and activity anymore.
[QUOTE=clk99;1484011071]Not sure honestly. There's still that little thing inside of me that doesn't want me to be over a certain weight. It depends on the circumstances I guess...if I still look okay then weight gain is easier to accept. But the fact that I feel this way is a big red flag that I won't accept it.
I've actually grown very uninterested with how I weigh in the past few months...similar to how I grew uninterested with tracking my calories. The only reason I would want to weigh myself is to see if I'm eating enough food. My parents and doctor know I'm underweight now and I don't get to be in complete control over food, weight and activity anymore.[/QUOTE]
I would argue that, if there's a little voice in your head not wanting you to go over a weight, then you might not wanna weigh yourself. If you go over a weight, it'll trigger you most likely. I'd also say: stop looking at your abs... stop over-analyzing the parts of your body you are most critical of.. it'll just make it harder.
Happy weekend everyone. Go out, enjoy life, friends, family, and focus on the bigger picture. You're bigger than your disorder, and so is life.
Cheers!
[QUOTE=AdamWW;1484073461]Happy weekend everyone. Go out, enjoy life, friends, family, and focus on the bigger picture. You're bigger than your disorder, and so is life.
Cheers![/QUOTE]
I have spent most of the day in front of my pc while i have been played world of warcraft xD
[QUOTE=Grappa;1484106451]I have spent most of the day in front of my pc while i have been played world of warcraft xD[/QUOTE]
I played some Diablo 3 myself ;)
Also went and checked out 7 houses... looking to buy one soon. Otherwise, too tired to train... second rest day in a row. Zero fuks given :)
[QUOTE=AdamWW;1484121401]I played some Diablo 3 myself ;)
Also went and checked out 7 houses... looking to buy one soon. Otherwise, too tired to train... second rest day in a row. Zero fuks given :)[/QUOTE]
That's the spirit!
In on first page!
So last thursday i went out to dinner with the family, it was a nice meal and i knew i was below the amount of calories that I usually consume in a day but the weather was ugly .. it was raining heavily and i was too tired.. so i went back home and straight to bed!
Nevertheless, i thought i'd consume an extra 600 cals on friday, which i did, and little did i know that i'd wake up on a saturday with uncontrollable loose motion :) (sorry for the visuals)
also, i've lost considerable amount of strength on the bench. 2-3 weeks ago, i was able to do 42.5kg for 5x5 .. yesterday, i could only do 4,4,3,3,3 ..
sigh..
win some, lose some?
[QUOTE=AdamWW;1484121401]I played some Diablo 3 myself ;)
Also went and checked out 7 houses... looking to buy one soon. Otherwise, too tired to train... second rest day in a row. Zero fuks given :)[/QUOTE]
add me on bnet: Grappa#2644
:DDD
[QUOTE=MosToorani;1484138881]That's the spirit!
In on first page!
So last thursday i went out to dinner with the family, it was a nice meal and i knew i was below the amount of calories that I usually consume in a day but the weather was ugly .. it was raining heavily and i was too tired.. so i went back home and straight to bed!
Nevertheless, i thought i'd consume an extra 600 cals on friday, which i did, and little did i know that i'd wake up on a saturday with uncontrollable loose motion :) (sorry for the visuals)
also, i've lost considerable amount of strength on the bench. 2-3 weeks ago, i was able to do 42.5kg for 5x5 .. yesterday, i could only do 4,4,3,3,3 ..
sigh..
win some, lose some?[/QUOTE]
Everyone has theri weeknesses, for me benching, and all of the pushing movements suffer. 1: i have hypermobile elbow ( cuz i broke my left elbow spirally when i was 16 ), 2: i have stupidly long arms, 3: i hate every pushing movements xD I can deadlift 3x mx bodyweight no problem, but when it comes to place for OHP.... I can not break the 40kg barrier... I can start the movement, but i can not fking lock that out...
[QUOTE=Grappa;1484160631]Everyone has theri weeknesses, for me benching, and all of the pushing movements suffer. 1: i have hypermobile elbow ( cuz i broke my left elbow spirally when i was 16 ), 2: i have stupidly long arms, 3: i hate every pushing movements xD I can deadlift 3x mx bodyweight no problem, but when it comes to place for OHP.... I can not break the 40kg barrier... I can start the movement, but i can not fking lock that out...[/QUOTE]
Same here!
it seems that pushing movements is my weakness but i'm determined to overcome it!
MT
Terrible binge again last night, it seems I have the ''need'' to binge 2x a week, however now I'm going to stop them completely. Will report back in a week with better news
[QUOTE=Grappa;1484160371]add me on bnet: Grappa#2644
:DDD[/QUOTE]
Added!!
[QUOTE=Bonnappe;1484169191]Terrible binge again last night, it seems I have the ''need'' to binge 2x a week, however now I'm going to stop them completely. Will report back in a week with better news[/QUOTE]
Stay strong!
[QUOTE=AdamWW;1484179611]Added!![/QUOTE]
I hope it works even if my account is on eu
ALrght just got back from my docs, everything went well, we had a nice chatty day.. :D But i am a freak of nature.. I started to grow. Not just my weight goes up, my height also wth is this? I started to notice that my jeans starts to become a bit short, but i tought i am just gaining weight cool. But not.. i have grown 3 cm o_O It is really funny cuz back in august i was 173 now i am 178... what the hell is this? Also this hormonal imbalance/rage/increased libido reminds me of my puberty. But as a 22 year old guy who is still growing?. Wow... I hope i am not gonna get the same results when i was 14, i have grown 25 cm that year....
[QUOTE=Grappa;1484213391]ALrght just got back from my docs, everything went well, we had a nice chatty day.. :D But i am a freak of nature.. I started to grow. Not just my weight goes up, my height also wth is this? I started to notice that my jeans starts to become a bit short, but i tought i am just gaining weight cool. But not.. i have grown 3 cm o_O It is really funny cuz back in august i was 173 now i am 178... what the hell is this? Also this hormonal imbalance/rage/increased libido reminds me of my puberty. But as a 22 year old guy who is still growing?. Wow... I hope i am not gonna get the same results when i was 14, i have grown 25 cm that year....[/QUOTE]
Damn, that's a lot of growth for your age. I wonder how that happened? Did they say anything?
Today's been a weird day for me. Started off very hungry... ate bfast.. then had a workout.. and for whatever reason since then I haven't been very hungry at all.. I haven't been active other than the lifting, just working on the computer.. but still, been having to force the calories in. Not like me at all really...
Then again right now my hunger comes in waves so i bet i'll get random urges later.
[QUOTE=Grappa;1484213391]ALrght just got back from my docs, everything went well, we had a nice chatty day.. :D But i am a freak of nature.. I started to grow. Not just my weight goes up, my height also wth is this? I started to notice that my jeans starts to become a bit short, but i tought i am just gaining weight cool. But not.. i have grown 3 cm o_O It is really funny cuz back in august i was 173 now i am 178... what the hell is this? Also this hormonal imbalance/rage/increased libido reminds me of my puberty. But as a 22 year old guy who is still growing?. Wow... I hope i am not gonna get the same results when i was 14, i have grown 25 cm that year....[/QUOTE]
I started noticing the same thing with my jeans too over the past few months. But you're 22 and I'm not even 18 yet, that's pretty strange. I guess it's the body making up for height growth that was stunted during earlier times of restriction?
My stomach's been feeling like a bottomless pit for the past several days, it's impossible for me to get full. No food of any type fills me up, so I've just been continuing to eat around the clock since I start feeling weak and dizzy if I don't eat frequently enough now. It's just difficult not knowing when to stop.
[QUOTE=clk99;1484252831]My stomach's been feeling like a bottomless pit for the past several days, it's impossible for me to get full. No food of any type fills me up, so I've just been continuing to eat around the clock since I start feeling weak and dizzy if I don't eat frequently enough now. It's just difficult not knowing when to stop.[/QUOTE]
Extreme hunger can be intense.
It's normal in recovery.
[QUOTE=AdamWW;1484265871]Extreme hunger can be intense.
It's normal in recovery.[/QUOTE]
How do you know that extreme hunger is linked to recovery? I don't know how to explain.. em ..
okay .. I'm hungry all the time .. and even when i consume large meals, i'm still hungry.. i can easily down 3 large pizzas (i've done it on my stupid "cheat" days)...
So what i'm trying to ask is... is it hunger due to recovery? or hunger due to stomach capacity? get me? *sigh*
[QUOTE=clk99;1484252831]My stomach's been feeling like a bottomless pit for the past several days, it's impossible for me to get full. No food of any type fills me up, so I've just been continuing to eat around the clock since I start feeling weak and dizzy if I don't eat frequently enough now. It's just difficult not knowing when to stop.[/QUOTE]
I have started to restrict when i was 20