Smolov Jr - 5/3/1 Hybrid Program?

Currently running 5/3/1, have been for 2 years now and love it overall, however it's getting a bit stale and I need to bring up my lagging squat/bench. Current #'s = 515 pull, 350 squat, 235 bench.

My plan after this 5/3/1 cycle I'm in now is to run Smolov Jr Bench, and use 5/3/1 for lower body maintenance with no + sets, just the programmed reps.

So split would be - Monday -Smolov bench + accessories, Tuesday - Smolov + 5/3/1 squat + accessories, Thursday - Smolov + accessories, Saturday - Smolov + 5/3/1 deadlift + accessories.

After that 3 week cycle take a deload week then move to Smolov Jr for squats and do the same thing with my 5/3/1 upper days.

Thoughts?

Not a smart idea. Develop a sound program instead. Spend some time developing muscle and special work capacity.

What's wrong with the idea? Smolov is a well known and respected program, and I've been training consistently (3+ a week) for ~5 years. I'm mainly trying to figure if running the 2 programs concurrently will be too much and if I should just focus on my pressing only for that 3 weeks. Bench is lagging due to a couple injuries along the way (wrist and shoulder) and just being a naturally weak presser compared to pulling.

[QUOTE=78novacaine;1573159051]What's wrong with the idea? Smolov is a well known and respected program, and I've been training consistently (3+ a week) for ~5 years. I'm mainly trying to figure if running the 2 programs concurrently will be too much and if I should just focus on my pressing only for that 3 weeks. Bench is lagging due to a couple injuries along the way (wrist and shoulder) and just being a naturally weak presser compared to pulling.[/QUOTE]

Your numbers are low level. You need to focus on developing some muscle and special work capacity. Think long term in your approach to training - instead of trying to run some high volume 3 week program... Not a smart idea!!!! FYI - you will lose most of the gains from the Smolov Jr program once you stopped.

[QUOTE=utfootball4;1573159411]Your numbers are low level. You need to focus on developing some muscle and special work capacity. Think long term in your approach to training - instead of trying to run some high volume 3 week program... Not a smart idea!!!! FYI - you will lose most of the gains from the Smolov Jr program once you stopped.[/QUOTE]

Having a hard time taking your advice seriously when just a couple threads down you are strongly recommending a high frequency approach for intermediate lifters. Then in here you are saying it's a bad idea. FYI I already bench and overhead press 1× each heavy per week, and usually do lighter volume pressing my other 2 sessions, with high volume rows, face pulls and pullaparts done ALWAYS to balance out the pressing for shoulder health, so 4× a week pressing is nothing new to me. And I'm basing my lifts off what I have actually done, if going off of rep maxes my squat is closer to 365 and bench more like 255-265.

[QUOTE=78novacaine;1573159871]Having a hard time taking your advice seriously when just a couple threads down you are strongly recommending a high frequency approach for intermediate lifters. Then in here you are saying it's a bad idea. FYI I already bench and overhead press 1× each heavy per week, and usually do lighter volume pressing my other 2 sessions, with high volume rows, face pulls and pullaparts done ALWAYS to balance out the pressing for shoulder health, so 4× a week pressing is nothing new to me. And I'm basing my lifts off what I have actually done, if going off of rep maxes my squat is closer to 365 and bench more like 255-265.[/QUOTE]

Once again my higher frequency conversations are based off long term planning not some 3 week quick fix program. Not a huge fan of quick fix programs!! Anything worth having takes lots of hard work over time. Not 30lbs in 3 weeks.

My long term high frequency for you would be

8-12 weeks of hypertrophy work: 6-12 reps at 60-75%

Bench Tue/Thur/Sat
Squat Mon/Fri (easy leg work on wed - leg press or belt squat)
Deadlift Wed (easy deads work on fri - Rdl or block pulls)

Follow by 8 weeks of strength work: 3-6 reps at 70-85%
Same setup for the lifts but slightly different lifts.

[QUOTE=utfootball4;1573160411]Once again my higher frequency conversations are based off long term planning not some 3 week quick fix program. Not a huge fan of quick fix programs!! Anything worth having takes lots of hard work over time. Not 30lbs in 3 weeks.

My long term high frequency for you would be

8-12 weeks of hypertrophy work: 6-12 reps at 60-75%

Bench Tue/Thur/Sat
Squat Mon/Fri (easy leg work on wed - leg press or belt squat)
Deadlift Wed (easy deads work on fri - Rdl or block pulls)

Follow by 8 weeks of strength work: 3-6 reps at 70-85%
Same setup for the lifts but slightly different lifts.[/QUOTE]

I've already been on a higher volume lower intensity approach for months. Sample week for right now is something like this:

Monday - Military press, 3×5 @ 65, 75. 85%, 5×5 @65% DB flat press - 50-60 total reps, row variant - 50-100 total reps, triceps/shoulder accessories - 50-100 total reps, face pulls - 50-100 total reps
Tuesday - squats, same percentages as above, followed up with RDL or GHR 3-4 sets, light db presses 50ish reps, row variant 50ish reps
Weds/Thurs - active recovery/cardio work
Friday - Bench, 3×5 @ 65, 75, 85%, CGBP 4×10 + 1 burnout set, row variant - 50-100 reps, triceps/shoulder accessories - 50-100 reps, core -50 reps
Saturday - Deads, 3×5 @ 65,75, 85%, SSB squats - 5×5, GHR - 3-4 sets, leg extensions or presses, 3-4 sets, Lat PD -50ish reps, Seated cable row - 50ish reps, face pulls - 50-100 reps.

Accessories and frequency remain the same week to week, only thing that rotates is intensity and volume of working/backdown sets on the main lift for the day. The sample week given is the lowest intensity in each 3 week cycle. Other 2 weeks work up to 90 and 95% for top sets, and backdown intensity is brought up equally as well. This is all based off a 90% training max, not a true max.

[QUOTE=78novacaine;1573162331]I've already been on a higher volume lower intensity approach for months. Sample week for right now is something like this:

Monday - Military press, 3×5 @ 65, 75. 85%, 5×5 @65% DB flat press - 50-60 total reps, row variant - 50-100 total reps, triceps/shoulder accessories - 50-100 total reps, face pulls - 50-100 total reps
Tuesday - squats, same percentages as above, followed up with RDL or GHR 3-4 sets, light db presses 50ish reps, row variant 50ish reps
Weds/Thurs - active recovery/cardio work
Friday - Bench, 3×5 @ 65, 75, 85%, CGBP 4×10 + 1 burnout set, row variant - 50-100 reps, triceps/shoulder accessories - 50-100 reps, core -50 reps
Saturday - Deads, 3×5 @ 65,75, 85%, SSB squats - 5×5, GHR - 3-4 sets, leg extensions or presses, 3-4 sets, Lat PD -50ish reps, Seated cable row - 50ish reps, face pulls - 50-100 reps.[/QUOTE]

That's just a 5-3-1 program - which isn't high volume at all. I'm just giving you advice you can try whatever you like.

Mon:
hi bar squat 8rm at 10rpe
Drop 8-12% 5x8
Front squat 2x8
Lunges 2x25
Hypers 3x12

Wed
Belt squat, leg press, or hack squat 3x15 8rpe

Fri:
Squat 5x8 85% of day 1
Fsq 3x8 8rpe
Rdl 4x12 8rpe
Split squat 2x10
Hypers 3x12

This is the kind of volume I'm talking about. The kind that will add 8-10lbs to your frame in 8 weeks.

[QUOTE=utfootball4;1573162641]That's just a 5-3-1 program - which isn't high volume at all. I'm just giving you advice you can try whatever you like.

Mon:
hi bar squat 8rm at 10rpe
Drop 8-12% 5x8
Front squat 2x8
Lunges 2x25
Hypers 3x12

Wed
Belt squat, leg press, or hack squat 3x15 8rpe

Fri:
Squat 5x8 85% of day 1
Fsq 3x8 8rpe
Rdl 4x12 8rpe
Split squat 2x10
Hypers 3x12

This is the kind of volume I'm talking about. The kind that will add 8-10lbs to your frame in 8 weeks.[/QUOTE]

Sounds great for a 20 year old 150# kid. I'm 31, 225#, work on my feet all day and knees can only handle so much direct quad work (fsqt, lunges, leg presses, etc.) before tendinitis flares up. I also don't have access to a hack squat, reverse hyper, or belt squat, most days I'm training out of my garage with a rack, bar, and weights.

I know what level of volume my body can/can't handle. I've just never done a bench specific program before so am trying to figure out how best to maintain my lower body while I run it.

[QUOTE=78novacaine;1573163271]Sounds great for a 20 year old 150# kid. I'm 31, 225#, work on my feet all day and knees can only handle so much direct quad work (fsqt, lunges, leg presses, etc.) before tendinitis flares up. I also don't have access to a hack squat, reverse hyper, or belt squat, most days I'm training out of my garage with a rack, bar, and weights.[/QUOTE]

Those are only options - hack squat, leg press, belt squat, or any light/easy quad dom movement. No rev hypers in this program - only 45degree hypers. Perform more mobility work - i think all athletes should spend at least 20mins daily performing mobility work which would prevent those issues.

Age is slightly overrated - if you were squatting 800lbs then you would have a point. Only one way to find out - try it you may be surprise what your body can handle.

I'm pushing 40yrs old and much stronger then you and my volume is much higher then 531.

FYI - make steak and white rice your best friend!!!!

I would also recommend not running the smolov jr program. The only logic I see for running it would be to peak/pr at a meet. The volume is unsustainable and like utfootball said, the gains will go away quickly.

Which variation of 531 are you running? How often are you benching a week? Frequency in bench is key. Just try adding another day of bench on your next 531 cycle and see what happens. That's probably only adding 30minutes to your week total. If you already have injury concerns, smolov is the last thing you would want to do.

The "i'm stronger than you, so listen to me" argument isn't the most helpful usually, but I would say frequency (2 times a week to 3) took my bench from 225 to 260 last year and I'm 160 pounds. There's a study out there where participants did the same weekly bench volume but at different frequencies, and the higher frequency group had significantly more gains.

[QUOTE=ytc1000;1573169591]I would also recommend not running the smolov jr program. The only logic I see for running it would be to peak/pr at a meet. The volume is unsustainable and like utfootball said, the gains will go away quickly.

Which variation of 531 are you running? How often are you benching a week? Frequency in bench is key. Just try adding another day of bench on your next 531 cycle and see what happens. That's probably only adding 30minutes to your week total. If you already have injury concerns, smolov is the last thing you would want to do.

The "i'm stronger than you, so listen to me" argument isn't the most helpful usually, but I would say frequency (2 times a week to 3) took my bench from 225 to 260 last year and I'm 160 pounds. There's a study out there where participants did the same weekly bench volume but at different frequencies, and the higher frequency group had significantly more gains.[/QUOTE]

Solid advice... Only if people would listen.

[QUOTE=ytc1000;1573169591]I would also recommend not running the smolov jr program. The only logic I see for running it would be to peak/pr at a meet. The volume is unsustainable and like utfootball said, the gains will go away quickly.

Which variation of 531 are you running? How often are you benching a week? Frequency in bench is key. Just try adding another day of bench on your next 531 cycle and see what happens. That's probably only adding 30minutes to your week total. If you already have injury concerns, smolov is the last thing you would want to do.

The "i'm stronger than you, so listen to me" argument isn't the most helpful usually, but I would say frequency (2 times a week to 3) took my bench from 225 to 260 last year and I'm 160 pounds. There's a study out there where participants did the same weekly bench volume but at different frequencies, and the higher frequency group had significantly more gains.[/QUOTE]

Currently running 3/5/1 with first set last and some higher percentage singles on days that I'm feeling good. I listed out a sample week earlier in thread.

Main reason I was considering switching programs for a bit is because of how strongly Wendler feels about following the 5/3/1 programming as written, and I don't think anybody is denying that he knows his stuff. I do feel like I could benefit from more frequency on bench, hence my desire to run Smolov for a cycle. How would you go about adding an extra bench day to 5/3/1? Have your normal programmed working sets one day then a backoff/volume day later in the week? Or would the second day be at a higher intensity with less volume, like a 10×2-3 day or something similar?

[QUOTE=utfootball4;1573170771]Solid advice... Only if people would listen.[/QUOTE]

I have no problem listening and taking good advice. But when that advice is "that's a dumb idea, do this instead" without even knowing my background or if I've already gone that route, then it becomes harder to take that advice seriously.

Also for a little more info, I currently have about a 45 minute window that I can train in on Mondays and Wednesdays, but Tues/Thurs/Fri/Sat I have time for extended sessions. Sundays are for resting and spending time with my lady.

[QUOTE=78novacaine;1573172401]I have no problem listening and taking good advice. But when that advice is "that's a dumb idea, do this instead" without even knowing my background or if I've already gone that route, then it becomes harder to take that advice seriously.[/QUOTE]

No problem - good luck with your adventure of getting stronger.