IFPA Pro & Scivation Athlete Tommy Jeffers ~ The Never Ending Quest To Be The Best

[QUOTE=co1e_train;587712513]Hey Sporto,


i had a quick question for clarity about post workout carbs and what kind of GI the carb is. Does it really matter at the end of the day? I normally use oats as my post workout source and i have had good gains. I just ask cause there are, like anything else, 13423 opinions. Im with most of the people here on the board about not caring what the GI is so I guess i just want to understand it more than I do for the sake of having more knowledge.



-the train[/QUOTE]

In my opinion, at the end of the day, unless you are competing and below setpoint, it isn't something you are going to notice at all unless you have insulin resistance issues. Even then, I don't believe it will hinder total progress either. If you are a person that is more IR, you will probably notice your energy levels are all over the place, and this becomes more noticeable the leaner you get. Other than that, especially when not cutting, it's not a big concern at all.

[QUOTE=bwelch1985;587751323]As far as the "hard, grainy" look goes, obviously a significant factor there is simply outstanding conditioning. You achieved, quite possibly, the best conditioning I've ever seen this year. I mean, your face alone spoke volumes on how retardedly lean you got...and I don't even need to mention the gl00tz!:D I'm sure you would agree that the months of hard dieting and training were the biggest factors in determining your incredible shape.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the most significant factor is definitely being lean enough, however, there were several bodybuilders at both my shows that were lean enough (with glutes) that still didn't have the hard/grainy look. There was a reason for that (since I know how some of these people did their peak week)...

[QUOTE=bwelch1985;587751323]Now, when it comes to the little extra things BEYOND just getting freakshow lean...such as water, sodium, food sources, insulin control, supplementation...I would definately be interested in hearing your thoughts on these subjects and what you've learned this year about manipulating these things to truly benefit your physique. Obviously the minute details are insignificant as every body is different, but I hope you'll be willing to share some specifics of your prep as it relates to these topics (i.e. what were the food source rules you followed?, what supplements did you take and when?, how did you manipulate sodium/potassium/water in the final week?)[/QUOTE]

Basically I'm just interested in learning about some of the "little things" that are not well known on this board that you've clearly gotten a firm grasp on during your prep...any information you're willing to divulge I'm really anxious to hear!:)

Sorry for the wall of text and thanks Tommy![/QUOTE]

I will definitely touch on these at some point! I'm actually in the process of getting it all into writing in a book/pamphlet format...

[QUOTE=anti-steroids;587755213]ha! White men cant jump! :D[/QUOTE]

Classic, huh? More to come!!!

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;587786723]I see guys shift from the broscience to valid science all the time but to see you move back towards perpetuating classic bodybuilding myths is truly unfortunate.[/QUOTE]

Why is that? Someone asked me my opinion, and based on what I have seen over the last few years in both myself and countless clients, I gave my honest thoughts. In fact, I've been pretty clear that I don't even think GI of a source should necessarily be considered unless someone is competing and below setpoint - and even then it's not a matter of whether you will hinder progress, but rather how efficient your progress will be from then on. I really don't see how this is an undebateable topic either. If GI is insignificant on all levels, then why is it that IR people feel and perform much better on low/zero carb diets where insulin is hardly present? And when you take those same people and have them eat meals that spike insulin levels, they feel like crap and/or want to immediately take a nap? Because obviously there is something going on there with repsect to insulin and food choice...

In addition, all I can do is give my opinion based on what I have seen several times over and over when experimenting on myself and clients. It was only then that I could actually see noticeable differences..

And if my advice is so unfortunate, you may want to re-think reading my journal beyond this point. All I am tyring to do is help those who are seeking help and asking how I personally do things and what I personally believe on certain topics...

[QUOTE=DanTheManB;587787933]Dont listen to him tommy, he's a strong hater!

I hear you bout GI ....so I'll be your assistant lab partner in Bro Science[/QUOTE]

Even if he is, there are better ways to discuss a difference of opinion instead of making comments the way he did - THAT was unfortunate...

[QUOTE=zmcdole;587788723]I'll be following along more closely than I thought. I'm gonna be a daddy as well in May. It will be nice to follow someone who shares the same passion and is a father.[/QUOTE]

Congrats! It throws a whole new set of challenges into the mix, but it is still the best thing in the world!

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;587793803]Yeah this is something we disagree on. GI/GL/II/IL is all irrelevant in any realistically practical situation for a bodybuilder.[/QUOTE]

And I don't disagree with that EXCEPT at a certain level of leanness when even the tiniest things start to count in the overall efficiency of things...

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;587875853]First, Congrats Tommy!!! That is a one cute kid.......good thing she gets her looks from mom. ;)[/QUOTE]

Ha! No kidding!

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;587875853]Congrats to you as well! Fatherhood adds a whole other dimension to this sport.....and well, just about anything. Learning to live your dreams and passions while putting your kids ahead of yourself is very, very difficult....especially towards the end of a prep when your mind is 100% focused on what you need to accomplish....and youre grumpy and tired. Its all you can do to exert the effort and tell yourself that your fam has to come first. [/QUOTE]

It certainly is...that's just one ofmany reasons I plan on taking another solid 2.5 years off...I'm going to need to prepare myself for a prep that includes little ones :)

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;587875853]I second this motion! :) .....realizing that this is individual to you, Tommy.....but it would be interesting to look into the things that you learned about yourself.[/QUOTE]

Coming soon!

[QUOTE=Work-Hard;587882723]I have always prescribed to the follwoing notion:

Regardless of whether GI has a significant impact on the ability get lean, in general, lower GI foods (sweet potatos, oats, brown rice, veggies and fruit) have a higher and more complex micronutrient profile. This has always lead me to the assumption that a diet high in nutritionally dense food would lead to a more appealing, dry, well conditioned physique.

Again, just my opinion so take it for what its worth.[/QUOTE]

I am in 100% agreement. So much so that I have chosen to eat the same way in the offseason to get the most bang for my buck nutrition-wise from my food selection. If it allows me to gain even the slightest ground on my competitors the next time I compete, it will be worth it!

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;587937403]Oh I absolutely agree with that and I'm not one of the radical "antibroscientists" that will tell people to eat **** just because they "can".

But in terms of insulin manipulation... no matter what you eat you can't manipulate it to any meaningful degree without bringing in exogenous humulin.[/QUOTE]

Let me ask you this...when someone is trying to go from lean to extraordinarily lean (all below setpoint), then would you say that even that "meaningful degree" could possibly matter at that point?

Sporto

[QUOTE=InclineDBPresss;588086593]Always an inspiration and Topic of the day is a great addition! Do you have a comment on high reps vs low reps :D[/QUOTE]

First of all, I am addicted to Dexter! :D

Second, it is my firm belief that BOTH high reps and low reps matter if you want full muscular development!

Sporto

[QUOTE=Sporto1633;588101413]First of all, I am addicted to Dexter! :D

Second, it is my firm belief that BOTH high reps and low reps matter if you want full muscular development!

Sporto[/QUOTE]

agree 10000% my reps can range from as low as 1 and as high as 50! dude even the fat girl needs love too!

[QUOTE=Sporto1633;588099953]
It certainly is...that's just one ofmany reasons I plan on taking another solid 2.5 years off...I'm going to need to prepare myself for a prep that includes little ones :)



[/QUOTE]

Wise move. Very wise. Prior to my son being born I was a recreational bodybuilder and would hit the gym pretty regularly.....2-4 times per week. After he was born, i think I might have hit the gym maybe 2-4 times a YEAR for first few years of his life. And I think I put on a good, solid 40 lbs of fat......so just dont wander off the path like I did. By the time my daughter was born I started to learn the balance .....but its still a struggle.

Can you explain from a physiological perspective why you think that being extremely lean somehow changes the body's insulin response to food/changes body water balance in response to insulin?

And I'm not sure why you're bringing diabetics into the equation at all... please show me where it is that I claimed that GI/GL/II/IL is irrelevant for diabetics. We're talking about extremely active athletes who for the most part are not clinically insulin resistant.

I may come off as aggressive but the point I'm trying to get across is that if you can't explain your experience other than purely anecdotally then it has NO empirical value whatsoever and is the epitome of "broscience".

[QUOTE=Sporto1633;586527523]One, because it is cheap, and two, because it is really effective at spiking insulin for maximum glycogen replenishment.[/QUOTE]

I think that's what originally got to me because insulin has very little to do with glycogen replenishment... glycogen synthesis isn't insulin dependent.

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588507023]Can you explain from a physiological perspective why you think that being extremely lean somehow changes the body's insulin response to food/changes body water balance in response to insulin?

[/QUOTE]

I really don't think he ever said the body's response changes when you get extremely lean. Only that those fluctuation could have a more noticeable impact on a physique that is that lean... that's how I take what he said.

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588507023]Can you explain from a physiological perspective why you think that being extremely lean somehow changes the body's insulin response to food/changes body water balance in response to insulin?
.[/QUOTE]

The further you go below your set point, the more insulin sensitive you become. I know you dont like anecdotal evidence but.......I can eat an entire apple pie covered in a ice cream sundae and topped with a quart of honey and feel OK when im sitting above my set point. If I eat a real sugary meal after months of dieting to contest level leanness I need smelling salts to keep from passing out from the insulin response. There is no doubt about it for me....insulin response changes.

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;588578613]The further you go below your set point, [b]the more insulin sensitive you become[/b]. I know you dont like anecdotal evidence but.......I can eat an entire apple pie covered in a ice cream sundae and topped with a quart of honey and feel OK when im sitting above my set point. If I eat a real sugary meal after months of dieting to contest level leanness I need smelling salts to keep from passing out from the insulin response. There is no doubt about it for me....insulin response changes.[/QUOTE]

That statement is true and contradicts the rest of your post.

Sounds like you need to get your fasting glucose tested.

[QUOTE=J_Bo;588565853]I really don't think he ever said the body's response changes when you get extremely lean. Only that those fluctuation could have a more noticeable impact on a physique that is that lean... that's how I take what he said.[/QUOTE]

Assuming that insulin has an effect on "hardness" or "dryness", how does it do so?

I'm not saying it's impossible but I just don't see it from a physiological perspective.

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588597183]That statement is true and contradicts the rest of your post.

Sounds like you need to get your fasting glucose tested.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I worded that wrong. I have been in the situation a few times where I take in a lot of sugar in one shot right after a contest (post contest feed fest) and I get super lightheaded and sick (actually blacked out once). What I believe is happening is that blood sugar is sky rocketing and my body's insulin response is falling short due to the fact that insulin is normally not needed in such large doses because I have become very insulin sensitive. The carbs enter the system, my body releases a normal amount of insulin but blood sugar rises much faster and higher than normal.....I feel sick......give a few minutes and the insulin response catches up. Im not a doc......but this is my best educated guess as to whats happening.

Either way....insulin sensitivity changes the leaner I get.

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;588799703]Perhaps I worded that wrong. I have been in the situation a few times where I take in a lot of sugar in one shot right after a contest (post contest feed fest) and I get super lightheaded and sick (actually blacked out once). What I believe is happening is that blood sugar is sky rocketing and my body's insulin response is falling short due to the fact that insulin is normally not needed in such large doses because I have become very insulin sensitive. The carbs enter the system, my body releases a normal amount of insulin but blood sugar rises much faster and higher than normal.....I feel sick......give a few minutes and the insulin response catches up. Im not a doc......but this is my best educated guess as to whats happening.

Either way....insulin sensitivity changes the leaner I get.[/QUOTE]

What you're describing is essentially type 1 diabetes... has nothing to do with insulin sensitivity and everything to do with insulin production.

Again I would highly recommend you get your fasting glucose and glucose tolerance tested because that's indicative of an underlying health problem.

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588811983]What you're describing is essentially type 1 diabetes... has nothing to do with insulin sensitivity and everything to do with insulin production.

Again I would highly recommend you get your fasting glucose and glucose tolerance tested because that's indicative of an underlying health problem.[/QUOTE]

Getting stage lean isn't exactly a healthy thing to do and it shouldn't be a surprise that he would respond that way to large amounts of sugars after a long prep. I've heard that same story from many people. As he said, if he has a large amount of sugar in the offseason he doesn't have that issue.

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;588578613]The further you go below your set point, the more insulin sensitive you become. I know you dont like anecdotal evidence but.......I can eat an entire apple pie covered in a ice cream sundae and topped with a quart of honey and feel OK when im sitting above my set point. If I eat a real sugary meal after months of dieting to contest level leanness I need smelling salts to keep from passing out from the insulin response. There is no doubt about it for me....insulin response changes.[/QUOTE]

you get drunk much faster too

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588811983]What you're describing is essentially type 1 diabetes... has nothing to do with insulin sensitivity and everything to do with insulin production.

Again I would highly recommend you get your fasting glucose and glucose tolerance tested because that's indicative of an underlying health problem.[/QUOTE]

I'd get the sugar high...never have I had the blacking out feeling or feeling sick. I love insulin spikes.

Just my random .02 cents

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588507023]Can you explain from a physiological perspective why you think that being extremely lean somehow changes the body's insulin response to food/changes body water balance in response to insulin?
[/QUOTE]

Uhmm.. it's called calorie partitioning.. This is an article from Lyle McDonald..


[url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html[/url]
[QUOTE]
The question is why, why is bodyfat percentage having such a profound impact on P-ratio. Well, there are a few easy answers. One is that bodyfat and insulin sensitivity tend to correlate: [b]the fatter you get, the more insulin resistant you tend to get and the leaner you are the more insulin sensitive you tend to be.[/b][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588811983]What you're describing is essentially type 1 diabetes... has nothing to do with insulin sensitivity and everything to do with insulin production.

Again I would highly recommend you get your fasting glucose and glucose tolerance tested because that's indicative of an underlying health problem.[/QUOTE]

I would highly doubt that i am a type 1 diabetic. Usually type one diabetics have a hard time gaining weight/muscle because the body doesnt use glucose properly. I would be lacking strength, tired, etc. I dont have any of those symptoms. The only time I experience anything like this is when I am in the depths of prep and deprived of glucose for a long period of time.


[QUOTE=DanTheManB;588857203]you get drunk much faster too[/QUOTE]

The times I have had too much to drink I think I can count on about three fingers and none were during prep or when I was very lean. But I have had a drink at a post contest party and you are very right......I was feeling it within minutes of the first sip. But EVERYTHING hits the blood much faster when you are starving. Its not just hunger......the body literally thinks its starving. I wont pretend to know the exact mechanism or the science behind it, but the body becomes very efficient at getting nutrients into the blood and fast.

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;588949393]I would highly doubt that i am a type 1 diabetic. Usually type one diabetics have a hard time gaining weight/muscle because the body doesnt use glucose properly. I would be lacking strength, tired, etc. I dont have any of those symptoms. The only time I experience anything like this is when I am in the depths of prep and deprived of glucose for a long period of time.




The times I have had too much to drink I think I can count on about three fingers and none were during prep or when I was very lean. But I have had a drink at a post contest party and you are very right......I was feeling it within minutes of the first sip. But EVERYTHING hits the blood much faster when you are starving. Its not just hunger......the body literally thinks its starving. I wont pretend to know the exact mechanism or the science behind it, but the body becomes very efficient at getting nutrients into the blood and fast.[/QUOTE]

Yea, pretty amazing

Oak how low was your carb intake at the end of prep?

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;589027733]Oak how low was your carb intake at the end of prep?[/QUOTE]

It went as low as 130g at the very end.

[QUOTE=Sporto1633;588101413]First of all, I am addicted to Dexter! :D

Second, it is my firm belief that BOTH high reps and low reps matter if you want full muscular development!

Sporto[/QUOTE]

Haha I agree with you on Dexter, but that was kinda random!

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588811983]What you're describing is essentially type 1 diabetes... has nothing to do with insulin sensitivity and everything to do with insulin production.

Again I would highly recommend you get your fasting glucose and glucose tolerance tested because that's indicative of an underlying health problem.[/QUOTE]

I don't like bro science but I am also against looking at every system in the body as an isolated thing. You might look at insulin response from various meals at various body fat. Okay, that is the INSULIN response. And you are trying to judge whether it was the INSULIN response causing something. But the body has a million complex functions for everything.

You can know whether a high GI carb meal had a "Good" or "bad" result a particular time but you can't take that and say that it was 100% due to the meal's insulin response. But being able to say whether its bad or good is enough for me.

Tommy,

Congratulations on all the amazing things happening in your life right now. Could you explain what you mean when you say your body will recomp at a certain weight? Is this able to happen when eating at maintenance? I suppose you mean you will lose fat and gain LBM. Thank you!

John

[QUOTE=Sporto1633;588101413]
First of all, I am addicted to Dexter! :D
[/QUOTE]

that show is pretty addicting! thought you might like this, happy holidays!

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rdWRb-XKQ[/url]

(embedding has been disabled for some reason)

[B][U][SIZE="3"]Sunday - Legs[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[B][U]Barbell Squats[/U][/B]
225X20
275X20
315X15
365X10
405X6 drop 225X12

[B][U]Hack Squats SS Leg Press[/U][/B]
3p+25psX20/4p+25psX20
5ppsX12/6ppsX12
6ppsX8/7ppsX12
6p+25psX5/7ppsX12

[B][U]Lying Leg Curls[/U][/B]
90X20
115X12
130X10
140X8 drop 85X8

[B][U]Leg Extensions[/U][/B]
130X20
160X15
165X15
210X10 drop 135X10 drop 80X10

[B][U]Machine Abductor/Adductor[/U][/B]
140X20/235X20
140X20/235X20
140X20/135X20

[B][U][SIZE="3"]Tuesday - Chest/Back Width/Shoulders[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[B][U]Barbell Bench Press[/U][/B]
135X20 (Warm-Up)
185X15 (Warm-Up)
225X10 (Warm-Up)
265X10
295X6
315X4 drop 225X8

[B][U]Nautilus XP Load Lat Pull-Downs[/U][/B]
3p+5psX15
3p+30psX12
4p+5psX10
4p+30psX8 drop 2p+30psX8

[B][U]Smith Machine Upright Rows[/U][/B]
105X15
115X12
125X10
135X8 drop 95X8

[B][U]Dumbbell Incline Press[/U][/B]
95X15
110X10
120X8
130X4 drop 80X10

[B][U]Close Grip Cable Lat Pull-Downs[/U][/B]
190X15
220X10
235X8
245X8 drop 170X8

[B][U]Hammer Strength Military Press[/U][/B]
2ppsX15
3ppsX8
3p+10psX6 drop 2p+10psX6 drop 1p+10psX6

[B][U]Low-To-High Cable Flys[/U][/B]
60psX15
80psX12
80psX12

[B][U][SIZE="3"]Wednesday - Arms/Calves[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[B][U]V-Bar Push-Downs[/U][/B]
150X20
160X20
190X15
210X12
250X8 drop 160X8

[B][U]Barbell Bicep Curls[/U][/B]
95X15
115X10
125X8
135X6 drop 95X6

[B][U]Dumbbell Skull Crushers[/U][/B]
50X15
60X10
65X8
65X8 drop 45X6

[B][U]Dumbbell Hammer Curls[/U][/B]
55X10
60X8
65X6
70X6 drop 40X10

[B][U]Overhead Cable Extensions[/U][/B]
120X12
130X12
130X12

[B][U]Hammer Strength Preacher Curls SS EZ Reverse Curls[/U][/B]
100X12/45X12
100X11/45X12
100X10/45X12

[B][U]Seated Plate Loaded Calf Raises[/U][/B]
2p+25psX10 - Sporto Tempo
2p+25psX10 - Sporto Tempo
2p+25psX10 - Sporto Tempo

[B][U]Standing Calf Raise Machine[/U][/B]
240X10 - Sporto Tempo
240X10 - Sporto Tempo
240X10 - Sporto Tempo

~It's already getting late (for me anyway as a new parent lol) so I 'm not going to comment much here this time, just posting my last few days of workouts!

[B][U]Movie Quote Of The Day[/U][/B]

"Say, the reason I'm calling is I wanted to tell you a little bit about the candidacy of Al Donnelly. Al Donnelly's a guy with a dream. His dream is to become governor of this great state of Washington. Hell, every guy's got his dream, am I right? Between you, me and the wall here, I doozy myself last night. Get this: A corn-fed harvest mouse, a hooker, a nun, a Flemish peasant woman. Whips, chains, whistles yo-yo's. A circus midget. My grandmother riding by on a bicycle giving me the finger, and a duck! Now, I don't know...are you crying? Oh my Lord. I am sorry honey, please don't...could you get your daddy on the phone? No, don't hang up please I..."

Sporto

[QUOTE=anti-steroids;588103893]agree 10000% my reps can range from as low as 1 and as high as 50! dude even the fat girl needs love too![/QUOTE]

Fat girls need love too...but they gotta pay! (Family Guy quote..not trying to be an ass lol)

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;588145383]Wise move. Very wise. Prior to my son being born I was a recreational bodybuilder and would hit the gym pretty regularly.....2-4 times per week. After he was born, i think I might have hit the gym maybe 2-4 times a YEAR for first few years of his life. And I think I put on a good, solid 40 lbs of fat......so just dont wander off the path like I did. By the time my daughter was born I started to learn the balance .....but its still a struggle.[/QUOTE]

It's all about balance! I'm learning how to keep a nice balance as we speak! Of course, it helps to have a wife who understands the lifestyle!

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588507023]Can you explain from a physiological perspective why you think that being extremely lean somehow changes the body's insulin response to food/changes body water balance in response to insulin?

And I'm not sure why you're bringing diabetics into the equation at all... please show me where it is that I claimed that GI/GL/II/IL is irrelevant for diabetics. We're talking about extremely active athletes who for the most part are not clinically insulin resistant.

I may come off as aggressive but the point I'm trying to get across is that if you can't explain your experience other than purely anecdotally then it has NO empirical value whatsoever and is the epitome of "broscience".[/QUOTE]

I never said nor implied that being extremely lean changes the insulin response to food.

And no, we are not just talking about extremely active athletes, there are plenty of bodybuilders, and great ones at that, who are more IR than they are IS...especially older bodybuilders.

I don't mind the aggressive part, but you are making assumptions AND you are being a pr*ck about it. It is possible to discuss things without an attitude like you are all high and mighty with knowledge you know...besides, my experiences with myself and my clients all show that something is obviously working - whether there is a study done to prove it is pointless to me since I care about what works practically in the real world, at real shows.

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588509803]I think that's what originally got to me because insulin has very little to do with glycogen replenishment... glycogen synthesis isn't insulin dependent.[/QUOTE]

So you believe that insulin plays no role in calorie partitioning?

[QUOTE=J_Bo;588565853]I really don't think he ever said the body's response changes when you get extremely lean. Only that those fluctuation could have a more noticeable impact on a physique that is that lean... that's how I take what he said.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. When you get extremely lean, calorie partitioning becomes much more significant when tyring to achieve a certain look. Again, many bodybuilders can get lean with glutes, but because of little things like food source, they will lack other attributes...

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;588597983]Assuming that insulin has an effect on "hardness" or "dryness", how does it do so?

I'm not saying it's impossible but I just don't see it from a physiological perspective.[/QUOTE]

I was mainly looking at the insulin response from food intake from a calorie partitioning perspective. When you are extremely lean, every little bit matters...

And you can argue with me all you want, the results I have seen over and over are enough for me to keep doing what I am doing. Most people that I have worked with who have not paid attention to food source before, all report a wide range of looks throughout a given week. When they started working with me and paying attention to food source, they had a very consistent look throughout their entire prep.

Hmm...

[QUOTE=zmcdole;588843963]Getting stage lean isn't exactly a healthy thing to do and it shouldn't be a surprise that he would respond that way to large amounts of sugars after a long prep. I've heard that same story from many people. As he said, if he has a large amount of sugar in the offseason he doesn't have that issue.[/QUOTE]

No it's not...there is no doubt a lot going on that doesn't go on in normal healthy adults. Trying to compare a legitimate 3-4% bodybuilder to a normal 10-14% active person is like comparing apples to oranges.

[QUOTE=CklueD;588879853]Uhmm.. it's called calorie partitioning.. This is an article from Lyle McDonald..


[url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Nice find! I've had several discussions with Lyle on this very topic...

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;588949393]I would highly doubt that i am a type 1 diabetic. Usually type one diabetics have a hard time gaining weight/muscle because the body doesnt use glucose properly. I would be lacking strength, tired, etc. I dont have any of those symptoms. The only time I experience anything like this is when I am in the depths of prep and deprived of glucose for a long period of time.




The times I have had too much to drink I think I can count on about three fingers and none were during prep or when I was very lean. But I have had a drink at a post contest party and you are very right......I was feeling it within minutes of the first sip. But EVERYTHING hits the blood much faster when you are starving. Its not just hunger......the body literally thinks its starving. I wont pretend to know the exact mechanism or the science behind it, but the body becomes very efficient at getting nutrients into the blood and fast.[/QUOTE]

No you are not type I diabetic LOL

[QUOTE=AustrianOakJr;589028683]It went as low as 130g at the very end.[/QUOTE]

Lucky...mine went even lower lol

[QUOTE=InclineDBPresss;589681033]Haha I agree with you on Dexter, but that was kinda random![/QUOTE]

I am definitely random!

[QUOTE=InclineDBPresss;589688433]I don't like bro science but I am also against looking at every system in the body as an isolated thing. You might look at insulin response from various meals at various body fat. Okay, that is the INSULIN response. And you are trying to judge whether it was the INSULIN response causing something. But the body has a million complex functions for everything.

You can know whether a high GI carb meal had a "Good" or "bad" result a particular time but you can't take that and say that it was 100% due to the meal's insulin response. But being able to say whether its bad or good is enough for me.[/QUOTE]

All I care about are real world results. When food source was strictly controlled, noticeable differences were made...especially in the final look on stage. Period.

[QUOTE=jdarndt;589747903]Tommy,

Congratulations on all the amazing things happening in your life right now. Could you explain what you mean when you say your body will recomp at a certain weight? Is this able to happen when eating at maintenance? I suppose you mean you will lose fat and gain LBM. Thank you!

John[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

Basically I just mean that I will be controlling cals and food source, maintaining around this weight, and focusing on strength gains in all rep ranges. I feel like this is a good weight for me to be at and grow, and as I build muscle and weight starts to creep, I will adjust things to stay around here (mini cuts, etc.)

[QUOTE=adamjohn32;590316713]that show is pretty addicting! thought you might like this, happy holidays!

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rdWRb-XKQ[/url]

(embedding has been disabled for some reason)[/QUOTE]

Nice!

Sporto

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;590564613]Lay out your plan then... do you use the GI or the II and in what context?

Also, how does food source specifically relate to calorie partitioning?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure why your questioning this guy. It's not like he's saying that everything he does is gospel and EVERYBODY should do it or they'll look like crap. The guy is a freaking IFPA Pro for crying out loud!! He might know a thing or two about bodybuilding. It's one thing to question if you're trying to learn. BRB telling Cutler that everything he does is BS.

[QUOTE=zmcdole;590618793]I'm not sure why your questioning this guy. It's not like he's saying that everything he does is gospel and EVERYBODY should do it or they'll look like crap. The guy is a freaking IFPA Pro for crying out loud!! He might know a thing or two about bodybuilding. It's one thing to question if you're trying to learn. BRB telling Cutler that everything he does is BS.[/QUOTE]

I'm wondering if there is any logic behind it other than "I ate like X and then like Y and I looked better when I ate Y" - which is no doubt reasonable in a singular case but I'm looking at this empirically.

I find it unfortunate that so many people take what pros say without expecting some rationale behind it.

I asked Tommy because he used to be a huge advocate of eating "within macros" and similarly he used to be against flat bench pressing as a chest exercise and he's changed his mind on both. It's worth the line of questioning.

Sorry that so many of you are so upset by something on the internet. Christ.

[QUOTE=JohnBrowne;590620793]I'm wondering if there is any logic behind it other than "I ate like X and then like Y and I looked better when I ate Y" - which is no doubt reasonable in a singular case but I'm looking at this empirically.

I find it unfortunate that so many people take what pros say without expecting some rationale behind it.

I asked Tommy because he used to be a huge advocate of eating "within macros" and similarly he used to be against flat bench pressing as a chest exercise and he's changed his mind on both. It's worth the line of questioning.

Sorry that so many of you are so upset by something on the internet. Christ.[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying. Why is it against the law for someone to change their mind? I thought you knew that bodybuilding is almost always singular in regards to how one responds to certain protocol. Tommy was just making the it known that getting to an ELITE level is very difficult to do and it may require going against the grain to achieve it. This is not surprising considering everybody is unique in their bodies makeup, chemistry, and overall response to variables. Sure, just about anybody can get stage lean. However, it's getting stage lean, filling back out, and having a POP to your muscle/physique is a pretty hard combination to achieve. Doing so is gonna require some experimentation and may even require one to go against what they previously held as gospel or truth.

[QUOTE=Sporto1633;590544293]

I don't mind the aggressive part, but you are making assumptions AND you are being a pr*ck about it. It is possible to discuss things without an attitude like you are all high and mighty with knowledge you know...[b]besides, my experiences with myself and my clients all show that something is obviously working - whether there is a study done to prove it is pointless to me since I care about what works practically in the real world, at real shows.[/b]
[/QUOTE]

In bold---my thoughts exactly! It infuriates me that all the 150lbers etc on this site reFUSE to accept real world experiences as truth. If it isn't done in a lab coat as an experience then it isn't true. Ridiculous. Emulate what you aspire to be. And what most successful bodybuilders do whether natural or enhanced works GREAT FOR THEM (in b4 it works in spite of them whatever) ..so why not emulate that?

How is the rebound going Tommy? Still getting strength back it seems...