Anyone own Watson's B.D. Lever Curl Dumbbells

I'd like some info

[url]http://watsongym.co.uk/product/b-d-lever-curl-dumbbells/[/url]

Mech,

It seems weird that you haven't had a response. However, I believe this isn't an original creation. I saw a similar device in one of the vintage threads. I believe it was a Weider gizmo from the 70s.

IH may have discussed these at some point. . .

Never seen them but they don't look like they do... anything at all...

[QUOTE=Mechanon84;1398008663]Never seen them but they don't look like they do... anything at all...[/QUOTE]

Really? Have you ever used a lever?

Yeah, but what exactly is the benefit here?

[QUOTE=Mechanon84;1398047953]Yeah, but what exactly is the benefit here?[/QUOTE]

First, watch the videos. These seems to be awesome at stimulating more contraction, not just through the movement, but at the very end.

When you put the weight at the end of an extended lever (think hand vs doubling the distance to the end of the weight horn), you increase the amount of force needed to move the weight a certain distance. It works exactly the opposite of a a long crowbar. Instead of gaining a leverage advantage, you continually lose that advantage, instead. Try to pick up a 45 lb bar, not by the middle, but [U][B]only by one sleeve[/B][/U]. Try to leverage the bar from the ground to pointing straight up. You can't. None of us can. It requires are too much torque. That's the principle behind this.

I, for one, want to see Mech make a better one than their version. Adjustable perhaps? :D
I'd buy it, no doubt.

[QUOTE=Synthetickiller;1398050963]First, watch the videos. These seems to be awesome at stimulating more contraction, not just through the movement, but at the very end.

When you put the weight at the end of an extended lever (think hand vs doubling the distance to the end of the weight horn), you increase the amount of force needed to move the weight a certain distance. It works exactly the opposite of a a long crowbar. Instead of gaining a leverage advantage, you continually lose that advantage, instead. Try to pick up a 45 lb bar, not by the middle, but [U][B]only by one sleeve[/B][/U]. Try to leverage the bar from the ground to pointing straight up. You can't. None of us can. It requires are too much torque. That's the principle behind this.

I, for one, want to see Mech make a better one than their version. Adjustable perhaps? :D
I'd buy it, no doubt.[/QUOTE]I watched the video. I'm familiar with how leverage works. I just don't buy into it being useful in this application. Watch as he does each exercise individually and you can see how clunky to use they actually are. Maybe that can be improved upon, but if the inherent design stays the same, it's a cute little gimmick product.

Well, there is the Scorpion Iso-Bar. Very similar concept.
[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=128948001[/url]

I do think a cable machine with a cam is still the best way to go. I'd like to see interchangeable cams, but to be honest you already get constant tension changing the rotary mechanics for linear weight stack excursion.

I was asked for someting similar. And they are adjustable in the original version. I'm just seeing what I could improve. I still don't get the angle being maintained by a single thumb screw. I may put a spline in there or something, but then it gets fixed positions, not infinite. I guess it depends how many degress I can get between each.

I think dumbbell might have bought one of the slayer bars.

[youtube]MSVlq-A_0Bg[/youtube]

I own these
[url]https://www.********.com/220594821356827/photos/pb.220594821356827.-2207520000.1445244984./630219453727693/?type=3&theater[/url]
which in my opinion is by far a better designed product than the watson.
But there is more in using them than the eye meets.

Slayer! That's so Metal!

[QUOTE=TASOSCHATZ;1398204503]I own these
[url]https://www.********.com/220594821356827/photos/pb.220594821356827.-2207520000.1445244984./630219453727693/?type=3&theater[/url]
which in my opinion is by far a better designed product than the watson.
But there is more in using them than the eye meets.[/QUOTE]

Could you elaborate on what additionally is involved and if you think they are worthwhile? Seems like an interesting piece and I often feel that I don't get enough bicep contraction / isolation, so interested in these.

This is an one off set of dumbells, not in production, just my custom order based on their barbell's design. I guess they could make more for custom orders.
I feel it is better than the watson model because your forearm is placed between two foam rollers supports to create the cam pattern.
Lets take the bicep curl for example, with the watson model the first/lowest third of the move is like using a ketlle bell and then starts the curve. With the slayer design you have a curve in the move from the start.
You have a multi angled model, so if you want you can place the load 90 degrees vertical in front of you and curl with the highest resistance at the lowest third, kind of like a scott bench curl, all the way up. At the highest third the weight could be beyond your ankle towards your body, with the watson model this would mean that the weight would rotate because there is nothing to stop it, with slayer this is not an issue, it is locked around your forearm because of support up and down of it. This is why the watson model videos are only about movement that load higher only the top third of the move.
The above is for both barbell and dumbells, but for dumbells there is more.
In a barbell you use both hands and balance the weight, in a dumbell the weight is not centered towards the palm but on side and if you add the increased force because of the distance of the grip and where the plate is placed, things tend to go out of balance. It is manageable with the standard setting, like starting with a kettle bell, that you have the highest resistance at the top of the curl, but in every other setting it gets worst. This is why in the watson dumbell model video you only see one setting for curls, although it does provide many different angles. Same problem goes for slayer model, just a bit better because the weight plate is closer to the grip and you have two pieces of support.
I bought first the multi angled slayer barbell because I wanted to have a a scott bench curl up to a concetration curl effect with everything in between included. The scott curl settings tend to be a bit hard on the wrists. I also use it in the same fashion for front deltoids barbell raises, it provides some resistance from the beginning instead of waiting for the second third to start feeling anything. Obviously triceps as well and more.
Then I had this dumbells set made because I wanted lateral side raises with resistance from the very start of the move, chest flyes with some resistance at the top where palms are together but weight is hanging in the sides, bicep curls on a bench parallel to the floor that starts with max weight but does not go to zero after the first half etc. I did spend some time and found ways to work with them, some excersises the weight is in the thumb, in others in the pinky, I improved my balance skills and improved on weaknesses, sometimes I put metal rings to create distance and place the plate in the middle of the dumbel so it is between my pinky and thumb, but this is me because I do want to use them. This way is hard to make it a mainstream product for everyone, but if you settle only for half the settings, and use it like lets say the watson model, then it is ok. I would buy them again, no regrets.
I do not try to take anything from Watson, everything they present in their video is exactly as they present it. I only do try for the something extra and in my opinion slayer does provide more options for many more bodyparts, I do not mean squats etc, and more settings. I wouldn't change the double support system slayer has for a single support one, I am sure for that.
I hope my writting makes sence, english is not my first language so I may not provide my point very clear always.

Thanks, very informative! I am thinking about the barbell Model. Based on your use of the adjustable model, would you advise on the adjustable version over the fixed version? I wouldn't mind saving a bit of money unless you feel the adjustments are crucial

Adjustable no matter what, the standard model is simply a maximum contraction device, the adjustable is a completely different animal.
I like to do bicep curls starting 5 clicks forward, that is maximum lower / first part of the move loading and move it towards standard for the next 4 sets. It takes me aboyt 20 sec to re-adjust. The pump is unique, not to mention that the next time you can do straight barbell curls and use 50 lb more than with the slayer.

I think this has come up on IH before. They look interesting.

Hey Mech6,

Did you every build any of these lever curl handles? I would be interested if you did, please send a message if you make them. Thanks!

Great Thread...

I know this is seriousely NECRO, ... but i always liked the slayer one, i donthink there still around thiugh. I dont like the Watson version, the lever flops around in the begining of the movement. It may not effect the end result much, but At this point in my gym’s evolution i just woulnt ever wind up using someyhing that has an actual flawed design that left the movement not feeling quite right. Thats the problem we have here, once our gyms become so refined in equipment choice its easy to not take anything less then ideal seriousely because there are so many better options you would take.

[QUOTE=ArtifactFit;1551606801]Hey Mech6,

Did you every build any of these lever curl handles? I would be interested if you did, please send a message if you make them. Thanks![/QUOTE]

Made some 2 years ago. You'd have to ask the owner how they worked out.

[QUOTE=keyboardworkout;1398094053]I think dumbbell might have bought one of the slayer bars.

[youtube]MSVlq-A_0Bg[/youtube][/QUOTE]

The gym may be cold but If you pause @ 1:06, you can tell, she's getting excellent chest activation.

These lever contraptions seem like impingement city. I dont see how bracing against the forearm while torquing the wrist is revolutionary to fitness. Dumbbells have stood the test of time for a reason.

The excersice at 1:06 would be much better with the bar 180 degrees turned around. Regarding the product, overall, at least to me, it was a good addition. Keep in mind I am from europe and the cost for me was double +.

[QUOTE=TASOSCHATZ;1552657571]The excersice at 1:06 would be much better with the bar 180 degrees turned around. Regarding the product, overall, at least to me, it was a good addition. Keep in mibd I amj from europe and the cost for me was double +.[/QUOTE]

That sucks