Squatting With Long Femurs
I've been watching the Exercises section ever since I figured out how to squat with my long femurs.
I see a lot of "help my squat!" threads that follow a common theme:
[B]OP[/B]: "can you check my squat form? Also, why does my center of gravity keep going onto my toes?"
[B]OP's video[/B]: a squat above parallel, with lots of forward lean ... and long femurs
[B]Response #1[/B]: "you should sit back more!"
[B]Response #2[/B]: "stop leaning forward so much!"
[B]Response #3[/B]: "just think about pushing through your heels!"
[U]A large percentage of people who ask for squat help here have long femurs - because squatting with long femurs is hard[/U]!
But a large percentage of the people who try to help, can't ... because they have different proportions, and the tips that helped them the most don't seem to work on long femurs.
My goal is to try to close that gap.
[B]If you have long femurs[/B]: this post will help you understand why your squats are challenging - and help you see more options to squat successfully.
[B]If you don't have long femurs[/B]: read anyway ... this post might help you help a confused long-femured noob!
[size=5]welcome to my world ... long-femur land[/size]
First things first, there's one thing that everyone needs to know about long-femur land...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/inn1VWl.jpg[/IMG]
[size=1](Well ... maybe a long-femured person can maybe give the [I]appearance[/I] of sitting back from a [I]side view[/I] ... if they made some careful changes to their stance [I]before[/I] they started squatting ... but more on that later!)[/size]
A long-femured person can't just "sit back and then poof, everything works!" It's actually more like "sit back and everything falls apart."
And "sit back" is pretty common advice given to a long-femured noob - those huge thighs have to go somewhere - sometimes they go forward - way past the toes. Lots of people jump on that in a form check video and advise them to "sit back more!" or "minimize forward knee travel!"
When a long-femured person tries to minimize forward knee travel, this is what happens - their epic femur length will put their butt into the next time zone - without enough torso length to counter it:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1Sa1qxh.png[/IMG]
So that's pretty much anatomically impossible to balance - the bar isn't over the feet.
Because it's anatomically impossible to balance that, this happens instead:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iJdxoZq.png[/IMG]
The body shifts [U]everything[/U] forward - body plus bar - unavoidably - to keep the bar over the feet.
Mental cues to "sit back more!" or "push through your heels!" or "keep your chest up!" don't help because those cues don't change the underlying issue - the femur/torso length ratio. The shift is actually necessary to stay balanced in this stance. (Fortunately, stance can be changed though...)
The same picture illustrates why the long-femured person can't get below parallel in a narrow stance with minimal forward knee travel. They'll hit a bone limit in their hips first. It's not a soft tissue limit that can be fixed with mobility work - it's a bone-on-bone limit. Pelvic bones hit the leg bone and that's it.
[size=5]how to squat successfully with long femurs[/size]
Luckily there is more than one way to squat successfully with long femurs - below parallel with no center of gravity shift.
I'm listing all options that I currently know of. These options can be used one at a time - or mixed and matched.
I list them in no particular order. I'm "strategy-agnostic" - I list all options that I know of.
Some of these will feel stronger to you. Some will feel stronger to the person next door. Some put more stress on the knees. Others put more stress on the hips.
Don't worry about which one is best - try a few, pick one that doesn't injure you, start with easy weight, and train it. Any of these options can become impressive with training.
[size=4][b]option 1: more forward knee travel[/b][/size]
This is the side view of what happens if a long-femured person allows a lot of forward knee travel ...suddenly the bar is over the feet without a forward weight shift. Depending on the femur length this can require either very good ankle flexibility, or shoes with an elevated heel, or both. Don't rule it out just because knees go past the toes - many squatters do this successfully with a lot of weight and no knee issues.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ibVyxWc.jpg[/IMG]
[size=4][b]option 2: wider stance[/b][/size]
This is what a long-femured person might look like from the side if he does an extra-wide stance squat. For me this requires epic hip adductor flexibility, but I was able to balance it and get below parallel without a forward weight shift. From the side, it looks like the femurs are shorter because they are pointing diagonally out.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PwkpeAX.png[/IMG]
The nice thing about these options is you don't need to use the extreme version of any single option - you can mix and match them.
For example if maximum forward knee travel in a narrow stance challenges your ankle flexibility too much, and maximum stance width challenges your hip adductors too much - try a little bit of forward knee travel plus a little bit of extra stance width. It's like cooking... a little bit of this, a little bit of that!
[size=4][b]option 3: feet & knees pointing more out[/b][/size]
Pointing feet and knees out more has a similar effect as a wide stance - getting the femurs out of the way diagonally - but this option can work in a narrow stance or a wide stance, so I list it separately. Feet pointing forward vs. out can also feel very different in terms of strength and glute activation - so I think it's good to try both of them.
This is what a long-femur squat might look like with a narrow stance, knees and toes both pointing out, and lots of forward knee travel ...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/FPJq6iH.png[/IMG]
[size=4]all these options have one thing in common...[/size]
All of these options bring the bar [U]farther forward[/U] compared to the feet, in the bottom position of the squat. That's why they work for long femurs. What we're trying to avoid is that scenario where the bar is behind the feet.
It probably seems counterintuitive - someone's center of gravity is shifting forward and they need their center of gravity to be even [I]more[/I] forward in order to fix it? YES! That is [I]exactly[/I] what's happening - and that is [I]exactly[/I] how to fix it.
[U]When the bar is already over the feet, then the body doesn't need to shift center of gravity forward to keep the bar over the feet[/U].
There is one more option that long-femured people can experiment with - to put the bar slightly farther forward in the bottom position, closer to the feet...
[size=4][b]option 4: high bar[/b][/size]
Moving the bar from a low bar position to a high bar position brings it at least an inch or two forward compared to the feet at the bottom of the squat - depending on femur and torso length this might be enough by itself, or it might need to be used in combination with something else in the list.
[size=5]mix and match them![/size]
These options can be used individually - or you can mix 2 or 3 of them at the same time. You can even mix all 4 together if you wanted to.
And they aren't specific to high bar or low bar. I have seen very successful high bar squats with a wide stance and minimal forward knee travel - I've seen very successful low bar squats with a lot of forward knee travel. Thinking outside the box is completely OK.
Torso angle will vary a lot depending on which options you're using - but long-femured people will always look like they're "leaning over" more than other people regardless of which option they choose, and that is normal. The important thing is just making sure the bar stays over the feet for the entire lift without needing any center of gravity shift to keep it there.
[size=5]how do I know if I have long femurs?[/size]
If you read this and you're thinking: "WOW, that sounds like me!!!! Those are MY squat problems!! And for once there's some advice that doesn't sound [I]anatomically impossible[/I]!!!! I'm going to the gym [I]right now[/I]! Where's my video camera?!" ... then ... well ... you probably have long femurs.
If you're reading this and thinking "hmmm that was interesting I didn't know that happened to some people" - then you don't have long femurs ... BUT I hope it was still a useful post anyway ... if you can visualize why the forward weight shift happens, then you can help point some long-femured people in the right direction. Based on personal experience, it can be confusing to try to figure out how to squat with long femurs. The more help they can get, the better!
[size=5]how do I know if other people have long femurs?[/size]
If you are reading a "help my squat!" thread and you see both of these signs at the same time, then it's extremely likely that they have long femurs.
1. Classic long-femur person squat problems - if they minimize forward knee travel in a narrowish stance, then they can't get below parallel and their center of gravity shifts forward onto the toes.
2. In a video, behold the bottom position of the squat... if you could magically continue folding that person in half at the hips without bending their back, would their knees touch their shoulders - or even go slightly past the shoulders? That's what long femurs usually look like in a video. (Like the girl below...if we folded her in half at the hips, then her knees would be on her shoulders or slightly past them.)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qqdnVgs.jpg[/IMG]
I hope this post either helps you - or helps you help someone else!