Questions for alan aragon and 'if it fits your macro' crew

[b]My objective is to bulk with minimal gain in bf%.[/b] I am currently at around 12% bf and I take a multi-vitamin too. My weight is 140lbs and my macros are Carbs 310g Protein 170g Fat 65g

I have read a lot of threads regarding calories in vs calories out, macros and micronutrients. I understand how this work when you are losing weight but how does this apply for bulking?

Assuming I need 3000 calories a day to bulk, but I already hit 2500 calories with all my macros fulfilled. [b]My question is does it make a difference which macro I get my remaining 500 calories from.(see objective) If yes, should I aim for the remaining 500 calories from carb, protein or fat?[/b]

[QUOTE=shambo99;625641363]the answer is it does not matter what macro nutrient you get your macros from.

As long as u get minimum 1-1.5g protein/lb lbm and at least 0.4g-0.6g fat per lb/lbm make the rest of the calories up with what you want.[/QUOTE]

This is the part where I am confused. So person A bulks with just junk food and person B who bulks with whole food, both of them hit the minimum protein and fat and ate the same calories, there will be no difference in gains for body fat %?

What are your macros?

Assuming protein and fat requirements are satisfied all remaining calories should come from carbohydrates. This goes for cutting, bulking, or maintaining.

the answer is it does not matter what macro nutrient you get your macros from.

As long as u get minimum 1-1.5g protein/lb lbm and at least 0.4g-0.6g fat per lb/lbm make the rest of the calories up with what you want.

[QUOTE=Dujin77;625640783]Assuming protein and fat requirements are satisfied all remaining calories should come from [b]whatever macronutrient the **** you prefer, assuming a balanced diet[/b]. This goes for cutting, bulking, or maintaining.[/QUOTE]

Fixed that for you.

[QUOTE=Dujin77;625640783]Assuming protein and fat requirements are satisfied all remaining calories should come from carbohydrates. This goes for cutting, bulking, or maintaining.[/QUOTE]



No necessarily brosef ^^^

Carb requirements are based on individual needs and tolerances.

Not to mention that protein and fat requirements are likewise not set in stone. It depends...

[QUOTE=kusok;625642093]No necessarily brosef ^^^

Carb requirements are based on individual needs and tolerances.

Not to mention that protein and fat requirements are likewise not set in stone. It depends...[/QUOTE]

^^

I would not fill in those remaining calories the same way if cutting or bulking. Bulking I would definitely go with carbs but cutting I may do a little protein and fat. Higher protein intake when cutting isn't a bad idea and considering that remaining 500 calories does not have to come from any specific source, I would be hesitant to fill that remainder with nothing but carbs.

Carbohydrates are an essential macronutrient for optimal energy production. Thus filling the rest of macros with carbohydrates would satisfy the energy demands required. Carbohydrate deficit can have a negative effect on the body. So while yes calories could come from anything, carbohydrates should not be ignored.

[QUOTE=Dujin77;625644073]Carbohydrates are an essential macronutrient for optimal energy production. Thus filling the rest of macros with carbohydrates would satisfy the energy demands required. Carbohydrate deficit can have a negative effect on the body. So while yes calories could come from anything, carbohydrates should not be ignored.[/QUOTE]

Essential?

People doing keto dropping dead?

[QUOTE=NaLLa8705;625644653]Essential?

People doing keto dropping dead?[/QUOTE]

Keto does help you lose fat, doesn't mean it's healthy.

[QUOTE=kusok;625640553]What are your macros?[/QUOTE]

Carbs 310g Protein 170g Fat 65g

[QUOTE=Dujin77;625645753]Keto does help you lose fat, doesn't mean it's healthy.[/QUOTE]

I was under the assumption that carbs were the only macro nutrient that were Unessential. Am I wrong?

*** i eat carbs and i love them....

[QUOTE=Tdragonfly;625638403] My question is does it make a difference which macro I get my remaining 500 calories from. [/QUOTE]

Most will say no, that any combination of carbs/protein/fat will work.

I'm personally a proponent of fat, though.

While there is no advantage in consuming more protein and no essentiality in consuming carbs at all, there very well might be an advantage to consuming more fat. So the recommended values being just [B]minimums[/B] applies the most to fat.

I had positive results when going from the recommended intake of 0.4-0.5g/lb lean bodyweight to over 1g/lb lean bodyweight. My energy, mood, and libido went through the roof and I would've bet money that my Test levels would have exemplified that.

If you want my personal opinion, fill most of your remaining calories with fat.

[QUOTE=shambo99;625641363]the answer is it does not matter what macro nutrient you get your macros from.

As long as u get minimum 1-1.5g protein/lb lbm and at least 0.4g-0.6g fat per lb/lbm make the rest of the calories up with what you want.[/QUOTE]

This is the part where I am confused. So person A bulks with just junk food and person B who bulks with whole food, both of them hit the minimum protein and fat and ate the same calories, there will be no difference in gains for body fat %?

[QUOTE=MikeK46;625649283]Most will say no, that any combination of carbs/protein/fat will work.

I'm personally a proponent of fat, though.

While there is no advantage in consuming more protein and no essentiality in consuming carbs at all, there very well might be an advantage to consuming more fat. So the recommended values being just [B]minimums[/B] applies the most to fat.

I had positive results when going from the recommended intake of 0.4-0.5g/lb lean bodyweight to over 1g/lb lean bodyweight. My energy, mood, and libido went through the roof and I would've bet money that my Test levels would have exemplified that.

If you want my personal opinion, fill most of your remaining calories with fat.[/QUOTE]



Not to highjack, but what are your current cals, fat protein and crab grams then?

[QUOTE=Tdragonfly;625646653]Carbs 310g Protein 170g Fat 65g[/QUOTE]

And your weight?

[QUOTE=MikeK46;625649283]Most will say no, that any combination of carbs/protein/fat will work.

I'm personally a proponent of fat, though.

While there is no advantage in consuming more protein and no essentiality in consuming carbs at all, there very well might be an advantage to consuming more fat. So the recommended values being just [B]minimums[/B] applies the most to fat.

I had positive results when going from the recommended intake of 0.4-0.5g/lb lean bodyweight to over 1g/lb lean bodyweight. My energy, mood, and libido went through the roof and I would've bet money that my Test levels would have exemplified that.

If you want my personal opinion, fill most of your remaining calories with fat.[/QUOTE]

So you get 1600 kcals from fat a day? Even when cutting?

[QUOTE=kusok;625651023]And your weight?[/QUOTE]

My weight is 140lbs.

[QUOTE=Tdragonfly;625650193]This is the part where I am confused. So person A bulks with just junk food and person B who bulks with whole food, both of them hit the minimum protein and fat and ate the same calories, there will be no difference in gains for body fat %?[/QUOTE]

Have fun hitting your macros with a junk food only diet.

"Junk food" (whatever that may be) in moderation as part of a balanced diet = no problem.
"Junk food" only = you can't hit your macros. At all. No way.

I'm sick of this discussion, it always ends in nerdrage and tears.

Personally, on a bulk, I would fill the rest of the calories with some combination of carbs and protein. Fat is not used for MPS, or glycogen replenishment. So it's likely fate (especially in the face of an already high carb intake) is fat storage. On a cut or maintaining, this doesn't matter. It's something to think about on a bulk though.

[QUOTE=SwiftyX;625654463]Personally, on a bulk, I would fill the rest of the calories with some combination of carbs and protein. Fat is not used for MPS, or glycogen replenishment. So it's likely fate (especially in the face of an already high carb intake) is fat storage. On a cut or maintaining, this doesn't matter. It's something to think about on a bulk though.[/QUOTE]

Strong knowledge of physiology there, brah.

[QUOTE=Dujin77;625644073]Carbohydrates are an essential macronutrient...[/QUOTE]

Fat and protein are essential. CHO is not.

[QUOTE=MikeK46;625649283]Most will say no, that any combination of carbs/protein/fat will work.

I'm personally a proponent of fat, though.
...
If you want my personal opinion, fill most of your remaining calories with fat.[/QUOTE]

Me too.

[QUOTE=Tdragonfly;625652983]My weight is 140lbs.[/QUOTE]


At those stats your maintenance should be around 2200 calories. To bulk you don't want to go above 2600 or so unless of course you're fulking...

So IMHO this fact kinda makes your original question N/A as you're already eating enough and hitting your macros.

[QUOTE=kusok;625656383]At those stats your maintenance should be around 2200 calories. To bulk you don't want to go above 2600 or so unless of course you're fulking...

So IMHO this fact kinda makes your original question N/A as you're already eating enough and hitting your macros.[/QUOTE]

Just because you can estimate someone's maintenance doesn't mean that's what the number is. I need higher calories than any calculation will give me due to a physical job, and my NEAT being high normally and ramping up like crazy when overfeeding .

Without knowing more about his life it's impossible to say what he needs.

[QUOTE=hankst;625654293]Have fun hitting your macros with a junk food only diet.

"Junk food" (whatever that may be) in moderation as part of a balanced diet = no problem.
"Junk food" only=you can't hit your macros. At all. No way.

I'm sick of this discussion, it always ends in nerdrage and tears.[/QUOTE]

I did some calculation, it is possible to eat junk food plus supplements, vitamins to hit the macros and micronutrients. My question is will there be a difference in gains for body fat % with regard to where the remaining calories comes from in a bulking diet?

[QUOTE=Tdragonfly;625659603]I did some calculation, it is possible to eat junk food plus supplements, vitamins to hit the macros and micronutrients. My question is will there be a difference in gains for body fat % with regard to where the remaining calories comes from in a bulking diet?[/QUOTE]

No, I don't think so.
[url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html[/url]
You might want to read this. Lyle's awesome. Or rather was awesome, before he started writing 3 articles about his dogs per week. ;)

[QUOTE=kusok;625656383]At those stats your maintenance should be around 2200 calories. To bulk you don't want to go above 2600 or so unless of course you're fulking...

So IMHO this fact kinda makes your original question N/A as you're already eating enough and hitting your macros.[/QUOTE]

I do cardio 3 times and workout 5 times a week. I don't see how this is related to my question on the gain in body fat %?

[QUOTE=SwiftyX;625658713]Just because you can estimate someone's maintenance doesn't mean that's what the number is. I need higher calories than any calculation will give me due to a physical job, and my NEAT being high normally and ramping up like crazy when overfeeding .

Without knowing more about his life it's impossible to say what he needs.[/QUOTE]



I agree ^^ But I'm having an extremely hard time imagining a 140 lbs person not gaining at 2600 calories and needing 3000....

[QUOTE=hankst;625661763]No, I don't think so.
bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html
You might want to read this. Lyle's awesome. Or rather was awesome, before he started writing 3 articles about his dogs per week. ;)[/QUOTE]

Will read it later, thanks.

After so many replies in the thread, I still did not have the answer to my main question. :(

[QUOTE=Tdragonfly;625664873]Will read it later, thanks.

After so many replies in the thread, I still did not have the answer to my main question. :([/QUOTE]

Then I highly suggest you read the article now, because it actually answers your question spot on.