Calorie timing

Is there any merit to eating the majority (or at least half) of your calories post-workout in terms of body composition on a maintenance recomp? I eat more before my workout than after, so about 2500 pre- and 500 post- give or take. I want to have as much energy for the gym as possible and I’m just... hungry, constantly. I work out late, leaving me with only 3-4 hours before I pass out, but if needed I’ll gladly cram in more near bed if it’d be helpful. I’ve managed to keep my weight fairly constant, accumulating mass and dropping fat for a few years, but lately I’ve noticed a bit of fat come on which is kind of alarming. I’m wondering if poor meal organization is partly to blame. I think that I’ve been eating more pre and less post than I have in the past.

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1597728471]Is there any merit to eating the majority (or at least half) of your calories post-workout in terms of body composition on a maintenance recomp? I eat more before my workout than after, so about 2500 pre- and 500 post- give or take. I want to have as much energy for the gym as possible and I’m just... hungry, constantly. I work out late, leaving me with only 3-4 hours before I pass out, but if needed I’ll gladly cram in more near bed if it’d be helpful. I’ve managed to keep my weight fairly constant, accumulating mass and dropping fat for a few years, but lately I’ve noticed a bit of fat come on which is kind of alarming. I’m wondering if poor meal organization is partly to blame. I think that I’ve been eating more pre and less post than I have in the past.[/QUOTE]

It terms of body composition for weight loss/gain, its the days total calories that matter.

There are studies showing however that spreading out protein over the day is a bit superior for MPS.

If eating that much pre workout gives you a better, intense workout, then without eating, then that's a good thing.

Personally I couldn't eat that amount before the gym but that's me.

Whatever works best individually.

Haha I mean I blow through 2500 or more in the hours between waking up and my workout, not all at once... but I could eat more, really. My appetite is insane.

So, I’ve been eating in a slight surplus on training days and an equivalent deficit on rest days to ultimately average out at maintenance. Despite the fact that I work out 4 days and rest 3, technically putting me in a total (very small) weekly surplus, I’ve been successful in my recomp. I figured that if my day-to-day timing scheme produced results, organizing within smaller timing windows as well could benefit me. If this isn’t the issue, I don’t know how to find the culprit behind the fat gain. My weight is the same as always, so have I lost muscle? This is all happening about a week after a deload, so maybe I ate too much? If timing isn’t the issue, I can try eating at maintenance on that fourth training day to even everything out... any ideas?

[QUOTE=boo99;1597736661]It terms of body composition for weight loss/gain, its the days total calories that matter.

There are studies showing however that spreading out protein over the day is a bit superior for MPS.

If eating that much pre workout gives you a better, intense workout, then without eating, then that's a good thing.

Personally I couldn't eat that amount before the gym but that's me.

Whatever works best individually.[/QUOTE]

This.

Ultimately in this case I would see things just averaging out, though your approach is way off my typically hunger trends/eating times.

I personally prefer working out with very minimal if any solid food in me, opting usually for liquid calories pre-workout unless I have a long window post-meal where it can clear my stomach... my hunger just tends be greatest post-training which is in the morning, and then later in the evening... I don't get very hungry during my work hours.

But after all is said and done, as boo said, it's about the energy balance over time and then eating in a way which optimizes your training and recovery, which will mean something different for everything usually.

[QUOTE=boo99;1597736661]It terms of body composition for weight loss/gain, its the days total calories that matter.

There are studies showing however that spreading out protein over the day is a bit superior for MPS.

If eating that much pre workout gives you a better, intense workout, then without eating, then that's a good thing.

Personally I couldn't eat that amount before the gym but that's me.

Whatever works best individually.[/QUOTE]

Yup.

Ideally, spread your meals throughout the day. There [I]are[/I] athletes who make impressive progress on the One Meal A Day style of eating--which I personally couldn't handle--but it's definitely not optimal.

Biggest thing is just to try things out and see what works for you.

I prefer to space my food out throughout the day, which usually means 2 meals—breakfast and pre-workout dinner or breakfast and lunch—and a lot of snacking in between (everything is weighed for accuracy, I’m just a grazer). In terms of energy and satiety it’s definitely optimal for me. So there’s no influence on body composition whatsoever? Not even minimally?

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1597785931]I prefer to space my food out throughout the day, which usually means 2 meals—breakfast and pre-workout dinner or breakfast and lunch—and a lot of snacking in between (everything is weighed for accuracy, I’m just a grazer). In terms of energy and satiety it’s definitely optimal for me. So there’s no influence on body composition whatsoever? Not even minimally?[/QUOTE]

nope... you will not notice a difference

Hmmm... wonder what’s going on then...

In terms of recovery, then, could saving more of my calories for after my workout be useful? I tend to stall a lot, though this could be for a variety of reasons.

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1597788651]Hmmm... wonder what’s going on then...

In terms of recovery, then, could saving more of my calories for after my workout be useful? I tend to stall a lot, though this could be for a variety of reasons.[/QUOTE]

Optimal for recovery is having at least 4 meals with ~0.4 gram protein per kg spread over the day. What's ideal for the rest of your macros you'll have to find out by experimenting.

Wow, that puts me at about 100g protein/day. And here I am at 180-250g, ha. Kind of just happens that way though.

Could dietary choices have anything to do with fat accumulation (at a given calorie plan/macro split)? Is there anything to certain foods affecting nutrient partitioning such as HFCS?

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1597969591]Wow, that puts me at about 100g protein/day. [/QUOTE]
You weigh less than 70 kg? At what height?

Anyway, I said at least.

[QUOTE=Mrpb;1597981071]You weigh less than 70 kg? At what height?

Anyway, I said at least.[/QUOTE]

62 kg at... had to use a unit-of-measurement conversion calculator for this one lol, 157.48 cm

Makes it impossible to compare myself to/evaluate myself with ballpark strength and weight standards used by 99% of everyone else, but hey.

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1597969591]Could dietary choices have anything to do with fat accumulation (at a given calorie plan/macro split)? Is there anything to certain foods affecting nutrient partitioning such as HFCS?[/QUOTE]

Huge can of worms, but yes, of course. If you want a detailed explanation, I suggest starting a new thread.

[QUOTE=rtpmarine;1598005911]Huge can of worms, but yes, of course. If you want a detailed explanation, I suggest starting a new thread.[/QUOTE]

Please dont

[QUOTE=AdamWW;1598009271]Please dont[/QUOTE]

Why not?

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1598022931]Why not?[/QUOTE]

You don't want to let rptmarine open up his floodgates... it gets painful.

Bottom line, the kinds of modifications YOU are talking about will not make a difference.

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1597969591]
Could dietary choices have anything to do with fat accumulation (at a given calorie plan/macro split)? Is there anything to certain foods affecting nutrient partitioning such as HFCS?[/QUOTE]
HFCS is just fructose and glucose, like sugar. Sugar (and HFCS) in moderation has no deleterious effects on body composition.

Some studies have shown saturated fat (specifically palmitic acid) is easier stored as body fat than unsaturated fat. Given that it also tends to raise LDL cholesterol it's probably a good idea to eat more unsaturated fats instead.

[QUOTE=AdamWW;1598023521]You don't want to let rptmarine open up his floodgates... it gets painful.

Bottom line, the kinds of modifications YOU are talking about will not make a difference.[/QUOTE]

Modifications like substituting foods with certain ingredients with equivalents without them? Minute things add up over time to produce discernible results, surely.

Otherwise I’m stumped on what’s going on. Hormonal imbalances or even a decrease in testosterone levels.. could that be related?

[QUOTE=Mrpb;1598026391]HFCS is just fructose and glucose, like sugar. Sugar (and HFCS) in moderation has no deleterious effects on body composition.

Some studies have shown saturated fat (specifically palmitic acid) is easier stored as body fat than unsaturated fat. Given that it also tends to raise LDL cholesterol it's probably a good idea to eat more unsaturated fats instead.[/QUOTE]

I mean, I get a fair amount of calories from sugar. I’m not always clear on what’s reasonably moderate. I have a pretty large range of calories to work within so a couple hundred never seems like a lot.

Could probably watch the sat fat a little better... my LDL is on the slightly high side but my docs don’t seem concerned. Still, snowball effect, idk. Nothing about my food choices has changed recently.

[QUOTE=Xpiro;1598044991]I mean, I get a fair amount of calories from sugar. I’m not always clear on what’s reasonably moderate. I have a pretty large range of calories to work within so a couple hundred never seems like a lot.
[/Quote]
10% of calories from free sugars is a good limit for reasonably active people.