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View Full Version : 563 grams protein a day? Dang!



gbat
02-16-2003, 04:17 PM
According to the new Maximise Your Results article on the Super Site here I should be getting 563 grams of protein a day:

According To This Calculation:
Your Weight: 300 pounds.
Daily Requirements
Calories: 4500 calories per day.
Protein: 563 grams per day.
Carbs: 394 grams per day.
Fat: 75 grams per day.

Requirements For Each Meal
If You Eat 6 Meals Per Day:
Calories: 750 calories per meal.
Protein: 94 grams per meal.
Carbs: 66 grams per meal.
Fat: 13 grams per meal.

This is not a keto diet obviously with all the carbs, but it is all I can do to get 300 grams in, let alone 563. I can't afford 5 pounds of whey a week X $30. = $120. a month. That's a lot of eggs and tuna for a guy to stuff. Maybe I should go down to the grainery and get a couple bushels of soybeans and feed myself like a cow. :D

Any suggestions how a guy can get protein or do I really need this much and/or what do you think of the article?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/james2.htm

Eye2_Man
02-16-2003, 04:22 PM
Say good-bye to your liver and kidneys too. But I guess at our 35+ age it doesn't matter. *jk*

MEAT
02-16-2003, 04:31 PM
Yeah , it does sound a bit much . I just took the test and it says I need to take in 587 grams of protein a day and 98 grams per meal . I know what it's like to have to take in a large amount of protein a day . I try to plit it up into like 8 or 9 meals a day . I probably get about 400-450grams of protein on a good day .

Belle
02-16-2003, 04:32 PM
That you were meant to take 1-2 grams of protein to each lb of LBM not to your total weight in pounds? I.e. me being 144 lbs lady but only having a LBM of about 94 lbs should take between 94-188 grams of protein? As for calorie intake, I thought that it was 10-12 calories per lb of body weight if you want to lose and anything upward of 15 calories if you want to maintain or grow?

Well these are the formula's I use anyway and they seems to work where weight loss is concerned. I am supposing that people are diffferent and need to have different percentages of calories per pound of whole body weight to "lose, maintain or grow?"

I mean personally when I get down to goal, to maintain I would simply be tinkering around to find my personal percentage myself and going by that whilst watching the scale to see if it takes a dive down or up over the course of a week or two.

gbat
02-16-2003, 04:49 PM
Just went over to FitDay and looked up some protein stuff. If I could eat 5 1/2 pounds of chicken breasts or 89 boiled eggs I could do it! Not as hard as I thought! I'll get the Lilliputians to bring it to me! :D

Belle,

The article didn't say lean body mass but that would make it more reasonable.

Belle
02-16-2003, 04:53 PM
Gbat??? Sounds like a load of rubbish to me all that advice they gave. I mean I find it bad enough getting the extra protein down I do nevermind their ideas about it...

back2it
02-16-2003, 04:56 PM
I bet a bowel movement after a week of 567 gms of protein a day would be quite an event .

Belle
02-16-2003, 05:08 PM
well that would be good. You'd sound like you were doing your workout in the loo no doubt..lol! (You know the sound some lifter's make when they are really going for gold?) LOL!!!!!!

gbat
02-16-2003, 05:11 PM
Belle,

I have never had an official body fat test but a health website said my lean body mass is 189. I think that is a little low, 189+ 10% body fat would mean I should weigh about 208. I am 300 now at 6'3"and don't think I have that much to lose. A fat gut but everything else is hard. 92 pounds of fat is quite a volume of blubber. But I could be wrong.

back2it,

I agree. Just with the volume of protein I am eating now I have become more sympathtic to women and childbirth. :eek: :D

Question: Is the volume of body fat roughly equivalent to cooking oil? Need a comparison.

tracyb555
02-16-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by gbat
Question: Is the volume of body fat roughly equivalent to cooking oil? Need a comparison.

Gbat,

I once saw a visual on the internet of what 5 lbs of fat looked like. I tried (unsuccessfully) to find this. But in my search, I found a plastic surgeon's site with before & after liposuction photos. In each case, he detailed how many pounds of fat was removed. So I guess you could make some volume assumptions from the photos.

Warning: site features pics of topless women (presumably breast augmentations/reductions) so use caution if you are reading this from work!!! (I now see this site getting a flurry of activity from the over 35 men!)

http://www.mybeautifulbody.com/acps_banda-fortes.html

enkai
02-16-2003, 07:08 PM
fat doesn't require protein, so you should do the math on your bodyfat % and take that off your actual weight and look into your requirements from there on

Belle
02-16-2003, 07:38 PM
That what I thought. You just go by LBM. So I personally only need 94 grams (94 lbs LBM) at present. Since protein can be converted to glycogen if you consume too much and then if not used up stored as fat, it may be as well to actually guestimate than aim for using the whole of the body weight including fat IMHO. I mean I know I may not be 94 lbs LBM, but if round it off to 100 I figure it should cover me surely?

Hibiscus09
02-16-2003, 07:48 PM
gbat, you need to move further away from me than Ohio if you plan to eat that much protein -- I'm afraid I'll be able to smell you from here! LOL

That's way too much. You need your kidneys later. :) How much water do they suggest you drink with all that protein? Probably, about 10 gallons.

Belle
02-16-2003, 08:00 PM
Despite the surgery...they all still look like they need to tone up to me which means that they could have probably got rid of that excess fat with a good diet and exercise huh?

Gbat:

I think I know what you mean. Your asking if the contents of pure fat cells are the same as fat or oil that we eat right? I have a feeling it may be if triglycerides are pure fat. I say that because I am reading a book called Biogenic Diet by Lesley Kenton. It is an old book but very detailed about fat cells. Glucose is usually burnt in muscle cells in the same way that fat is. However, when you eat a lot of protein, and create too high a glucose level for it to be burned up by the muscles for fuel, it is dumped into the fat cells instead and once inside them it converts itself to glycerol which then attaches itself to three lipid or fat molecules to form a triglyceride which is neutral, stable and very hard to get rid of apparently.

That diet at the top of this thread sounds a little over the top to me. You would only have a use for so much in protein, carbs or fat and then the rest would be stored. I mean even if it was with the premise that you could get more done at the gym and go more frequently, then to my mind it seems like nonsense also because it wouldn't matter how much extra protein you ate, your muscles would still only use so much for repair and energy and then the rest would be stored in the fat cells.

gbat
02-16-2003, 08:36 PM
Ya, I think I am going to stay around 200-300 grams. Lot of sense in what you are saying, Belle. Could be some of that tough belly fat of mine was protein to begin with. Always been an enormous carnivore, consuming vast quantities of meat and milk.

I am concentrated now in building up my leg muscles to the max. Doing 10x10 squats GVT training on them. My theory is that if I build up the biggest muscles in my body, they in turn will burn off more calories on take down Saddams bunker, (my belly). I also work out the rest of my body but the legs are job #1.

Belle
02-16-2003, 08:51 PM
are my weakness really. I have clicky, squeaky knees, clicky hips and the like. So I know what you mean about wanting to make them stronger. Pretty large muscles too so I know if I strnegthen them up I'll be burning heaps more fat, but over did things initially and ended up with problems. I worked them out too many times in a week--- my trainer had me doing the circuit every night when I first went and I did the whole body x5 days a week for about two months. Then as I picked up more knowledge, I dropped back the quantity of sessions and just targeted certain areas.

LBW tonight anyway as it so happens... talk to ya later guy's.

CROWLER
02-16-2003, 09:16 PM
I currently eat 550g of protein , 140g fats and 75g carbs. Works out real nice.

Belle
02-16-2003, 11:44 PM
The total gbat posted was up to 4'500 per day. I'd say that the level of calories that you are getting (low carb) are about right if your trying to gain muscle and being a guy. For me as a small gal I would have to take in 2200 just to maintain my weight if I'm not wrong, so your probably shooting for a good figure there CROWLER. But then again, if you want to build "freaky cartoon like muscles" as it says on Google..LOL.. maybe you need to eat big freaky volumes of food?

IPR
02-17-2003, 12:16 AM
Hi gbat......dang thats a hella of alot of protein my friend.

As belle pointed out, eating more protein than you need will result in the excess being converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. As you are low carbing/keto (?) this would raise your insulin level and risk fat storage if you are at maintenance or above calories.

IMO you should be eating around 1-1.25g of protein per lb of LBM or alternatively 0.8-1.0g per lb of total body weight.

I am assuming you are still cutting, in which case a total cal intake in the region of 12 times TOTAL body weight would suit you (note fat cells are also metabolically active hence included in the calculation) and working a big muscle group like legs or back will be good for keeping your mtabolism running hot :)

So 12x300=3600kcals
Protein = 300g = 1200kcals
Carbs = 30g = 120kcals
Fat = 3600-1200-120 = 2280kcals = 253g

ratios 63%fat, 33%protein, 4%carbs. looks okay, although protein could be dropped a little.

Tracy......that site definietly put me off te idea of lipo, although the breast implants looked interesting and worth further consideration ;)

Brother Phil
02-17-2003, 06:49 AM
I really feel that protein/fat/carb consumption has to be taylored for what works for you. I happen to have a high metabolism and respond well to a higher protein higher carb diet. My workout partner would be as big as a house (fat) if he ate like me. I don't seem to make as good gains if I only eat 1 gm protein per lb. I eat about every 2 1/2 hrs, and try to get at least 40 gm of protein per meal. I also found that if I take in about 1/3 of my daily intake of protein within 3 hrs of working out, I make even better gains. I do believe that if your not putting on muscle consistantly, the first thing I would check is protein intake. I was only making small gains until I started to eat more protein. I'll even drink a shake in the middle of the night. But again, this would probably cause most people to gain fat.

Nuclear
02-17-2003, 09:17 AM
Just MHO- but I think that *most* people who eat that much protein and gain from it are only supplementing their total caloric intake. I just don't see how the body can use that much protein- I have no idea what the actual turnover ratio is in the body, but it can't be THAT high.

Eating 2g/lbm has worked for me in the past, but so has just increasing my total caloric intake across the board (protein/fat/carbs). I think that you'll find (unless your doing a boatload of anabolics) that just getting ~1-1.2g/lbm of protein FROM WHOLE FOODS is plenty. If you still aren't getting steady gains then try increasing your overall calorie intake before you go overboard with the protein.

TwoWalks
02-17-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by gbat
92 pounds of fat is quite a volume of blubber. But I could be wrong.

When I weighed 238#'s and had a body fat test done the results were 77#'s of lard. Fat compacts between the skin and muscle so it can feel dense. The normal view is that each inch of gut = 4#'s of fat during loss. So when you go down from say 46 to 45" you probably lost 4#'s of body fat. Currently between me and a 32" waist is 6"x4#'s = 24#'s of fat to lose. It does actually workout from my current body fat% and waist size. :)

CROWLER
02-17-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by TwoWalks
When I weighed 238#'s and had a body fat test done the results were 77#'s of lard. Fat compacts between the skin and muscle so it can feel dense. The normal view is that each inch of gut = 4#'s of fat during loss. So when you go down from say 46 to 45" you probably lost 4#'s of body fat. Currently between me and a 32" waist is 6"x4#'s = 24#'s of fat to lose. It does actually workout from my current body fat% and waist size. :)

Very interesting never heard of this.

Makes me want to 'run' some numbers. WHo knows could be a nice quick and dirty way of estimating.

Belle
02-17-2003, 02:21 PM
is generally the fat that has accumulated due to much inactivity and that is very hard marbelised fat that takes a great deal of shifting. However, when your doing weights and cardio or dieting that is why initially it does not show in our bodies as fat loss. In fact with larger muscles we look larger. Your body has to shift that hard marbelised fat in the muscle first before it can get to work and have those muscles burning up the surrounding fat cells just under the skin surface.

The point is, the whole of your body weight is not to be included within your calculations around protein. Always calculate your calories around your body weight and then find the percentage of protein by finding as near as possible your LBM. As people get fat and become unfit, their muscle tissue tends to shrink as we know and cellular metabolic activity falls off and as a part of that process inactive muscles accumulate those fatty deposits. They cannot absorb glucose too well so when insulin levels are high and glucose as I said it is dumped into the fat cells. Your body has to do a hell of a lot of cleaning out. Part of the reason it should be a slow process is because of the toxins stored over the years of being inactive. To have all that released into the body at to concentrated amount would be quite hard going. So much why we need to have a high water intake really amongst a few other things, but if your not seeing fast results and can still feel fat with callipers, then this is why. It doesn't mean your not burning fat, it's just your body is burning it in the right order and getting it's priorities narrowed down to making it so that the muscles are cleaned out and able to do the job of burning the other surrounding and more noticeable fatty areas.

gbat
02-18-2003, 06:24 AM
2 walks and Belle,

Ya gave my brain somethin' to crunch on! Dang, it very well could be I have nearly 100 pounds of fat on me! Am I discouraged? Naw, more determined then ever! Shoulda got on this a long time ago but I can't go back in time. I can, however, roll back the clock as far as my body condition is concerned.

Thanks for being a reality check for me, all ye forumites!

Ya can remove a mountain with a teaspoon if you got the determination. I shall rid myself of both hard and soft fat and return to the unencumbered self of yesteryear. So help me whey! I have my weapons of fat mass destruction and have no quandaries about using them! :D

Rolandb1963
02-18-2003, 09:59 AM
Talking about protein consumption,
is it necessary to take protein every day or just the days you work out and a day following weights? I train with weights on Tues, Wed and Thurs then don't touch weights again until the following Tues. I have been taking protein Tues to Fri, is this ok or do I need to take it every day?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rolandb1963

Hibiscus09
02-18-2003, 11:03 AM
Roland, right now I'm taking in 1.5grams X my lean body weight. I think you should always take in at least a gram per pound of lean body weight, whether it's a workout day or not.

Brother Phil
02-18-2003, 11:36 AM
is it necessary to take protein every day

When you say "take protein" I assume you mean supplemental protein. In any case, on the days you're not lifting, your muscles are rebuilding from the weeks workouts, which requires protein, so I would continue to keep the protein consumption high.

Macattack
02-18-2003, 09:07 PM
Good thread....

Gbat i found that if i want to lean down it means leaning out everything protein included but especially fat and carbs and especially if you dont do cardio like i DONT...

I am close to your weight 280 or so i take in around 150-200 grams a day and try to stick to maximum 4500 cals a day sometimes its higher but more often lower and i am finally leaning out.

This takes time, its not dieting its a life style change we need to achieve here something we can live with, thats my way of thinking i dont want to diet but am willing to make some changes ever so slight they pay dividends later:)

CROWLER
02-18-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Rolandb1963
Talking about protein consumption,
is it necessary to take protein every day or just the days you work out and a day following weights? I train with weights on Tues, Wed and Thurs then don't touch weights again until the following Tues. I have been taking protein Tues to Fri, is this ok or do I need to take it every day?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rolandb1963

Hi Roland. You got me by 1 year. :)

Your muscles all the time between your workouts so it would be take your protein every day.

CROWLER
02-18-2003, 09:47 PM
Just a suggestion for people trying to gain muscle who are taking less than 2g per lb of body weight.

Slowly up your protein intake over a week until you are taking in 2g per lb of body weight unless you are over 18% BF then just do 1.7g per pound.

You will want to lower your carbs by approximately the same amount as you increased your protein.

Ok then keep it up for 3 weeks and see how your strength is and how your muscles are doing.

If nothing then drop it back. Nothing risked here and you might find it works.

Just give it an honest try.

Rolandb1963
02-19-2003, 10:34 AM
Thanks, for all the answers.

Rolandb1963