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Eye2_Man
02-13-2003, 11:18 AM
Can't figure what is going here. Any ideas?

The plan is to try to gain strength and muscle size while losing body fat. Although the fat calipers came, they haven't been used yet. But my pants are getting tighter (gut getting bigger).

Diet seems pretty clean (no beer, no soda, no candy, no chips, no fries, etc) Between 2000-2200 calories daily. Typical day is:

Protein Shake - 100 cals at 7am
Light breakfast (1/2 cup cereal w/splash of 2% milk) 100 cals @ 8am
Protein Bar - 290 cals @ 10:30am
Turkey sandwich on Rye (dry) + salad (no dressing) 350 cals @ 12:30
Chicken Beast 150 cals @ 3pm
Dinner (6oz fish, lean beef, or chicken + 1/2 cup rice + 1 cup green vegetable) - 700 cals @ 6:30pm
Post workout shake - 265 cals @ 8:30pm
Can of Tuna and a few pieces of tofu 150 cals @10:30pm

About 2.5 gallons of water each day.

20 min walk at lunch every day.
Lift weights 1 hour every other day
16min stair master + Ab work every other day

7kg have been lost in the past 6 weeks with this. 1/4 inch grown on arms. And good strength improved.

But.... my pants are getting ready to burst at the waist. Am I eatting too much? Currently 97kg or 214lbs.

Any ideas?

Minotaur
02-13-2003, 11:58 AM
Are you deadlifting and/or squatting? If you gained 1/4" on your arms (congratufrigginlations! :) ) you're gaining weight all over. You may be putting on muscle in your midsection (lower back, sides, etc.).

Moreover, it may not be only your gut (may not be your gut at all) that's making your pants tight. Could be your butt. Depending on where your pants sit on your waist and how they're cut, your whole hip/butt area could be making them tighter, not to mention your legs.

You're growing, m'boy! :D (I hope :rolleyes: )

Of course, this is all my opinion, based on my own observations. Ymmv. :D

Macattack
02-13-2003, 12:06 PM
Maybe all the water too, thats a lot of water, personally i bloat like crazy with more then a gallon a day.....

phikappa
02-13-2003, 12:30 PM
Minotaur makes a good point, which is why I rarely weigh myself. The scale doesn't know (either do your pants) if you're gaining muscle or if you're gaining fat.

Are you feeling leaner on other body parts? For instance, is the skin on your shoulders/arms/legs feeling thinner? Does everything feel firmer? If so, then I'd say that your gaining muscle around your stomach and rear. If you've been consistent on your diet and training, then I can't imagine that you've gained any fat. I certainly wouldn't at the levels you mentioned.

Eye2_Man
02-13-2003, 12:41 PM
Just can't figure it out. Sometimes I think it might be the creatine/water causing bloating. But I feel really good. It's just the gut seems to be getting bigger. I 'll have to get my wife to learn how to use the calipers tonight to take some measurements and calculate the bf. Then try again next month.
If the fat percentage increases, something'll have to be done. Like cut out the mid-morning bar and chicken breast between lunch and dinner.

Lots of squats and deadlifts. 4 sets of either one during weight days. Next Thursday starts the split. Squats on leg day and DL's part of the back day.

Brother Phil
02-13-2003, 12:42 PM
Your diet looks great to me. I'd lose like heck eating that light. You say you have lost weight. Two areas to check. Not to get too personal but are the bowls moving regular? Not enough of them will cause bloating. Or you may have a certain food that's causing bloating because of an allergic reaction or intollerance to something in that particular food. Symptoms like that don't necessarily occur immediately following ingestion of the trouble food.

Eye2_Man
02-13-2003, 12:47 PM
Allergic reaction wasn't considered. Maybe that's it. Annual physical is coming up in June. Maybe the doc should schedule one of those water measuring device trips.

You know though? Since stopping the beer consumption, all the bodily functions have improved.

MagicMel
02-13-2003, 12:59 PM
Ditto, on all the above replies.

Your diet looks clean, and I know your doing the routines. So I can't imagine you're gaining fat.

Start using those calipers to determine your BF%. Then you'll have a baseline reading to compare to.

Are you doing squats? When I added them to my routine, my glutes grew a bit.

I hope you are WALKING the golf courses, and not riding. :)

TwoWalks
02-13-2003, 02:50 PM
When it comes to the calorie thing I am a long way from the expert but there is one thing I noticed:

Your calorie intake is only 10 body weight - every one keeps saying that base line should be about 14 times body weight. Now if that is correct, you could be in fat storage mode, second at 2 1/2 gallons of water per day, I sure hope you sweat a whole lot or you could be putting on water weight.

And then there is the strange one - fat becomes like foam rubber after a certain amount of weight loss and infact expands, I went through that during weeks 4 -7.

Hibiscus09
02-13-2003, 03:31 PM
I bloated A LOT when I took creatine. It was worth it, though -- I really made a lot of strength gains. That goes away as soon as you cycle off the creatine. Plus, that is tons of water. You do need to take in extra water so you won't cramp when taking creatine & eating lots of protein but that is a whole lot. I'd shoot for a gallon to a gallon and a half. It doesn't look like you need to eat any less.

Charger
02-13-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Eye2_Man

Post workout shake - 265 cals @ 8:30pm
Can of Tuna and a few pieces of tofu 150 cals @10:30pm

About 2.5 gallons of water each day.Any ideas?

More rest would be one, but also I would NOT eat at 10:30pm. I would make your post workout shake the last meal. I would go with flax, whey and water for a post shake.

IPR
02-13-2003, 10:40 PM
It does sound very much like creatine bloat to me, but if you've been on it a while it may not be.

Why not just stop creatine for a week and see what happens :)

Minotaur
02-14-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by TwoWalks
Your calorie intake is only 10 body weight - every one keeps saying that base line should be about 14 times body weight. Now if that is correct, you could be in fat storage mode, ...

I found this out a few weeks ago. Several of the guys including IPR and ctgblue pointed out to me that my calories were too low. I was doing the 10-12x (lean) bodyweight calculation. It had me in starvation mode at 1800 calories. I increased my 'maintenance' calories to 3200-3500, then chopped 500-700 per day for weight loss. I now average 2500-2800 calories, and I am seeing some fat loss. It's not stupendous because I am still adjusting to hGH replacement. But I can definitely see fat loss; other people have commented, and my clothes are looser.

So the bottom line is that it may be counterintuitive to increase calories, but sometimes you have to make a leap of faith and do what's counterintuitive to see results.

tracyb555
02-14-2003, 10:07 AM
I've never used Creatine, but that might be the problem for you based on what the others have said.

Another thing to check might be your sodium intake. That can cause bloating as well, even if you are eating healthy otherwise.

Phatman1179
02-14-2003, 10:15 AM
See this is why I can't stand the bathroom scale. Measure your progress by the tape measure and the mirror.

It looks like you training is geared to stregth gain and power movements. Muscle weighs more than fat, period. Take this as a good sign that you are building quality muscle.

edster951
02-14-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Phatman1179
See this is why I can't stand the bathroom scale. Measure your progress by the tape measure and the mirror.

It looks like you training is geared to stregth gain and power movements. Muscle weighs more than fat, period. Take this as a good sign that you are building quality muscle.
But don't start using this as an excuse. I'm in the exact same boat as Eye2_man. But I'm having around 3000 cals or 14 x bw

My ony worry is I'm saying it all muscle, then next thing you know were fat slobs again.

I have gone from 213lbs in Jan to 220 now.

I'm getting fatter, hips thighs bum etc, but seeing some nice gains around the chest, arms etc. But as I'm still doing 10x10 squats, is it the muscle underneath???

The more I know the more confused I get!!??

Eye2_Man
02-15-2003, 11:45 AM
Hey Edster951, there was a thread on another forum here at BB.com talking about the "nearly impossible'. That being to reduce gut and butt while at the same time builiding quality muscle mass. Essentially the guy (who sounded very knowledgeable) said that while it is possible, it's too hard and results are not as satisfying. His advice was to focus on one or the other.

The thread went on to say that it's easier to lose weight than gain "good" weight. And we should attempt to trim down first. Don't quit lifting of course, but add more cardio and cut calories. Then, start packing on the muscle.

It seems like more of a mental challenge than anything else. No?

On the 20th of this month the 6 week break-in period will over and something new will be tried. Basically a 4-day split with 1 day of stair-master, walking, and ab exercises. Instead of the 250 cal. morning shake (protein with 2% milk) 3 Hydroxadrine tabs will be taken. Also, the late night meal will be removed. 200g of protein a day can still be maintained by eatting chicken breasts every two hours.

My thinking is strength gains can still be achieved while targeting bodyfat. Then in June get the nutrition levels back up gradually over a month's time and start a 6-week cycle of 1-AD in July. But that plan is contingent on dropping 3 inches off the waist and some family planning (wife has to be pregnant next month or in April).

edster951
02-15-2003, 12:55 PM
Thanks Eyeman, read that one.

But I have to admit my achilles heel is the nutrition. I ffel myself slowly slipping.

That why I was such a fat slob at 127kgs.

Keeping my diet is clean is my problem, I know that. What has stuffed me up so much was attempting Keto. I really enjoyed having a 4 egg omelette with grated cheese that I'm still having them, yummy. But I've also increased my carbs as well. So I'm on a moderate fat, moderate carb diet.

I'll have to re-evaluate things and see where to go from here. But the gains in lean mass and strength are nice.

TwoWalks
02-15-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Eye2_Man
"nearly impossible'. That being to reduce gut and butt while at the same time builiding quality muscle mass.

while it is possible, it's too hard and results are not as satisfying.

Eye2 - writing is the neatest thing there is next to talking. I think for my own self that there are a couple of key things in the above statement. First and truly important is the phrase "nearly impossible" this actually means Hardest.

As far as the word satisfying - I think that depends on a persons own mentality and how they view themselves as well as what motivates them. For some the lean Muscle Mass is priority while for others being Lean is the priority with mass secondary.

Also when we write or speak we do it to include all things and situations: reality is that when we first start (for some one year for others two years} putting on Lean Mass while losing fat is easier. After extended periods of working out then the game gets harder and the ability to gain mass and lose fat decreases.

There is less frustration to just focus on fat loss because as stated it is easier. Focusing just on mass gain is easier because we do not have to focus on diet as hard. Results: Nearly Impossible.