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RavenStorm
11-25-2006, 03:49 PM
I just don't get why there are age limits...

Are'nt we all human?

Age should not segregate us from the rest of society...

This bar in Wheeling,WV has Metal/Harcore shows all the time and i cant get in because im not 18...

Great place btw...

The legal age to drink is 21 what's up with that?

And porn, sex, etc...

Its natural for humans to have sex.

It's just a matter of time before people find this **** out.

To get into a rated R movie you have to be 17 i believe...

I see worse things, hear more cursing, and see more provocative things in my household and out on the streets than in movies.

Curse words are just what they are called, words.

WTF?

TricepsNGirls
11-25-2006, 04:11 PM
Treat it as a luxury. The amount of sheltering is proportional to prosperity. In third world countries, kids are forced to grow up too quickly. There's never going back.

In hindsight, you'll miss the lifestyle where you were restricted from doing certain things. Anyways, there are established social norms, and age restrictions are part of what makes a people "civilized".

Julie5150
11-25-2006, 04:12 PM
You'll appreciate the age limits of such things when you turn 21 and are around whiny 16 year olds that seem to need a babysitter.

Chris Lee
11-25-2006, 04:14 PM
You'll appreciate the age limits of such things when you turn 21 and are around whiny 16 year olds that seem to need a babysitter.

I agree... and I'm only 19...

Age limits are (almost) completely neccessary.

RavenStorm
11-25-2006, 04:16 PM
In hindsight, you'll miss the lifestyle where you were restricted from doing certain things

Nah i def wont.


You'll appreciate the age limits of such things when you turn 21 and are around whiny 16 year olds that seem to need a babysitter.


Still wont appreciate it.

Julie5150
11-25-2006, 04:16 PM
Yeah.

I remember being younger and wondering why I wasn't allowed to drive, yet - but now that I'm older and have kids f my own there's no way in hell I'm going to let them get a hardship driver's license at age 14.
Maturity is essential.

Chris Lee
11-25-2006, 04:16 PM
I just don't get why there are age limits...

Are'nt we all human?

Age should not segregate us from the rest of society...

This bar in Wheeling,WV has Metal/Harcore shows all the time and i cant get in because im not 18...

Great place btw...

The legal age to drink is 21 what's up with that?

And porn, sex, etc...

Its natural for humans to have sex.

It's just a matter of time before people find this **** out.

To get into a rated R movie you have to be 17 i believe...

I see worse things, hear more cursing, and see more provocative things in my household and out on the streets than in movies.

Curse words are just what they are called, words.

WTF?

Once you're over the age of 18... and you realize that you're going to be tried as an adult, that really sucks too. You can't get away with nearly as much.

DanielBell
11-25-2006, 04:16 PM
Rules are put in place to make society work.

The legal age to drink here in Australia is 18. It's all about societies definition of when someone becomes responsible.

I don't mind age limits, what pisses me off is that for example:

I have cousins here in Australia, but I am from New Zealand. We were flying back to New Zealand one day, now anyone over the age of like 15 got charged the adult fare. When we were on the plane a woman came around and asked if we would like some drinks. My aunt said "give him a beer", the woman refused stating that he was only a child and she cannot do that. Why then, was he charged an adult fare?

My aunt did not want him to drink, she was merely making a point, I think she was right.

It seems that you can't drink, smoke, enter clubs, get your full drivers license and all the other good stuff here until you are over 18. You pay adult fare for other services from around the age of 15/16 though, THAT is disgusting.

RavenStorm
11-25-2006, 04:20 PM
I have cousins here in Australia, but I am from New Zealand. We were flying back to New Zealand one day, now anyone over the age of like 15 got charged the adult fare. When we were on the plane a woman came around and asked if we would like some drinks. My aunt said "give him a beer", the woman refused stating that he was only a child and she cannot do that. Why then, was he charged an adult fare?

My aunt did not want him to drink, she was merely making a point, I think she was right.

It seems that you can't drink, smoke, enter clubs, get your full drivers license and all the other good stuff here until you are over 18. You pay adult fare for other services from around the age of 15/16 though, THAT is disgusting.


Yeah its pretty much BS.

RavenStorm
11-25-2006, 04:21 PM
Once you're over the age of 18... and you realize that you're going to be tried as an adult, that really sucks too. You can't get away with nearly as much.



Personally i could care less as i dont do bad things.

Julie5150
11-25-2006, 04:22 PM
Rules are put in place to make society work.

The legal age to drink here in Australia is 18. It's all about societies definition of when someone becomes responsible.

I don't mind age limits, what pisses me off is that for example:

I have cousins here in Australia, but I am from New Zealand. We were flying back to New Zealand one day, now anyone over the age of like 15 got charged the adult fare. When we were on the plane a woman came around and asked if we would like some drinks. My aunt said "give him a beer", the woman refused stating that he was only a child and she cannot do that. Why then, was he charged an adult fare?

My aunt did not want him to drink, she was merely making a point, I think she was right.

It seems that you can't drink, smoke, enter clubs, get your full drivers license and all the other good stuff here until you are over 18. You pay adult fare for other services from around the age of 15/16 though, THAT is disgusting.
Yeah - some rules and regulations are imbalanced and need to be adjusted.

RavenStorm
11-25-2006, 04:25 PM
I dont have a problem with most rules.

But age limits/restrictions is basicly discrimination.

user437490845hjgd
11-25-2006, 04:29 PM
I just don't get why there are age limits...

Are'nt we all human?

Age should not segregate us from the rest of society...

This bar in Wheeling,WV has Metal/Harcore shows all the time and i cant get in because im not 18...

Great place btw...

The legal age to drink is 21 what's up with that?

And porn, sex, etc...

Its natural for humans to have sex.

It's just a matter of time before people find this **** out.

To get into a rated R movie you have to be 17 i believe...

I see worse things, hear more cursing, and see more provocative things in my household and out on the streets than in movies.

Curse words are just what they are called, words.

WTF?



Platform

According to their official statement, the PNVD's platform aims to maximize diversity and "liberty". They propose allowing individuals, from the age of 12, to vote, have sex, gamble, choose their place of residence, and use soft drugs. Hard drugs would be legal at 16. They also intend to eliminate marriage in the law, permit public nudity anywhere in the country, make railway travel free, and institute a comprehensive animal rights platform.

Sexuality

The PNVD seeks to have the legal age-of-consent lowered to 12, and, in the long run, completely eliminated. (Except in dependent or intrafamilial relationships.) They reason that only "coerced" or "dangerous" sexual activity should be punished. They also aim to equalize the legal age where one can perform in pornography with the legal age-of-consent. Prostitution would be legal at the age of 16.

The PNVD also wants to legalize private use of child pornography (calling outlawing thereof "censorship" in the platform) and allow non-violent pornography to be screened on daytime television. They are against laws that would explicitly outlaw sexual contact between animals and humans (which is not illegal in the Netherlands now), and support laws criminalizing the "sexual maltreatment" of animals.



You mean like that?

DanielBell
11-25-2006, 04:31 PM
I think we just define an age of maturity at say 21 like the USA, and from that age you:

Drink (until when i become world superior leader i abolish it)
Smoke (same with above)
Get paid as an adult
pay for things as an adult
Drive
Vote (until i become supreme world leader elections will be fixed on my name, just need to give the illusion of democracy thats all HAHAHAHA)

do whatever the hell it is you couldn't do before as an adult

I still think 18 is too young.

RavenStorm
11-25-2006, 04:32 PM
You mean like that?



Uh no...wayyy to far.

Im talking smaller stuff.

Like getting into the bar so i can see some ****ing good bands.

BTW what the ****s with that?

user437490845hjgd
11-25-2006, 04:56 PM
Uh no...wayyy to far.

Im talking smaller stuff.

Like getting into the bar so i can see some ****ing good bands.

BTW what the ****s with that?

LOL...it is from http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=972131.

I think that what you listed above specifically is reasonable - let clubs individually decide to take part in what is called a "wet/dry" (or "frosh" or "wardroom") system.

Many colleges have these systems set up where students under 21 can enter bars and clubs with a "wet/dry" card, usually just for special events, like concerts and such. In one implementation, you show the bouncer the card and your ID, and you get your hand stamped - the venue is then not supposed to serve you booze, but you can enjoy the show, watch the game, play pool, whatever. In another implementation, the club is divided into a wet part and a dry part. There are other implementations of this idea as well. Establishments which wish to remain adult-only simply do not opt in to such a system.

Try to convince your parents to back you up and present an idea like this to the PTA and/or school board. You may be able to get a few local establishments to organize something along these lines for your high-school. Though, I have never heard of it being attempted for high-schools, so have no idea how it would go over.

NormandyRoad
11-25-2006, 05:20 PM
Personally i could care less as i dont do bad things.
You could care less? so you do care to a certain degree?

I'm 25 so I couldn't care less about this issue. :D

Perhaps you could start organising under age shows of your own.

AKR
11-25-2006, 11:10 PM
I just don't get why there are age limits...



you're, right. what's wrong with a 6 year old watching porn, while drinking a 40, while polishing his shot gun, while getting a blow job? i mean, come on. age is nothing, right?

EOY
11-25-2006, 11:13 PM
I just don't get why there are age limits...

Are'nt we all human?

Age should not segregate us from the rest of society...

This bar in Wheeling,WV has Metal/Harcore shows all the time and i cant get in because im not 18...

Great place btw...

The legal age to drink is 21 what's up with that?

And porn, sex, etc...

Its natural for humans to have sex.

It's just a matter of time before people find this **** out.

To get into a rated R movie you have to be 17 i believe...

I see worse things, hear more cursing, and see more provocative things in my household and out on the streets than in movies.

Curse words are just what they are called, words.

WTF?

You're 16, you don't know what you're talking about.









J/k :D

In Islam, puberty=Adulthood. A 13 year old who has reached the age of puberty is just as responsible as a 40 year old.

HoosierBoy
11-25-2006, 11:24 PM
I dont have a problem with most rules.

But age limits/restrictions is basicly discrimination.

You're right. Because discrimination is evil.

EVILLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

AKR
11-25-2006, 11:29 PM
You're 16, you don't know what you're talking about.


J/k :D

In Islam, puberty=Adulthood. A 13 year old who has reached the age of puberty is just as responsible as a 40 year old.


science and history say otherwise.

EOY
11-25-2006, 11:47 PM
science and history say otherwise.

Science, maybe. History, depends.

Either way, I don't really care because neither have any bearing on revelation :o.

AKR
11-26-2006, 12:01 AM
Science, maybe. History, depends.

Either way, I don't really care because neither have any bearing on revelation :o.


so, you think a 13 year old is responsible enough to get a full time job, drive a car, buy a gun, choose to marry someone they will be with for the rest of their lives, get a loan on a house, make a baby and raise it...and this isn't even mentioning the sins they would be allowed to partake in without interference from parents/government.

do you seriously believe a 13 year old has the mental capacity for such things?

Fearless_
11-26-2006, 12:05 AM
An age limit situation I wonder about is, how come 18 year olds (in the US) can't legally buy alcohol yet can be handed guns and sent off to war in Iraq at will.

EOY
11-26-2006, 12:06 AM
so, you think a 13 year old is responsible enough to get a full time job, drive a car, buy a gun, choose to marry someone they will be with for the rest of their lives, get a loan on a house, make a baby and raise it...and this isn't even mentioning the sins they would be allowed to partake in without interference from parents/government.

do you seriously believe a 13 year old has the mental capacity for such things?

If raised correctly, yes. It was possible in the past, and although times were simpler, there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible nowadays provided the right cirumstances.

EOY
11-26-2006, 12:07 AM
An age limit situation I wonder about is, how come 18 year olds (in the US) can't legally buy alcohol yet can be handed guns and sent off to war in Iraq at will.

lol. Good observation.

Briangumble
11-26-2006, 12:09 AM
I think certain age limits are stupid too. You can't tell a persons maturity level, or responsibility level by how old they are. There are a lot of people that are under 18 that are more mature/responsible than a 30 year old. I think when you reach the age of 17 you should have all the privelages as a person who is 21 or older. By age 17 you're practically a full-grown adult.

AKR
11-26-2006, 12:29 AM
If raised correctly, yes. It was possible in the past, and although times were simpler, there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible nowadays provided the right cirumstances.

half of those things were not even in existance in the past. you could exchange "gun" with "sword," but it's sorta hard to accidently kill someone, or even purposefully kill someone with a sword.

you are right though, in that times were much more simple. it's a lot easier to get yourself screwed over in modern civilization. you have so many more choices to make. it's not just, "gee, i work my butt off all the time, doing what my father has done, or one of the other few things there is to do around here; i marry the neighbor girl, make babies, and that's life. it was a lot more simple.

but even with that situation, the chances of you marrying someone you actually will want to be with the rest of your life, or even 10 years from 13 is EXTREMELY slim. 13 year olds ARE still developing mentally, and will do so for years. no offense, but to think a 13 year old is mentally developed enough to handle decisions like marriage and child rearing is a bit ignorant. there are some things about adolescent development that cannot simply be advanced by socialization.



on a side note, do you vote through your religion? do you want to keep people from being legally allowed to do sins? i'll go somewhere with this, if the answer is yes.

EOY
11-26-2006, 12:45 AM
half of those things were not even in existance in the past. you could exchange "gun" with "sword," but it's sorta hard to accidently kill someone, or even purposefully kill someone with a sword.

you are right though, in that times were much more simple. it's a lot easier to get yourself screwed over in modern civilization. you have so many more choices to make. it's not just, "gee, i work my butt off all the time, doing what my father has done, or one of the other few things there is to do around here; i marry the neighbor girl, make babies, and that's life. it was a lot more simple.

but even with that situation, the chances of you marrying someone you actually will want to be with the rest of your life, or even 10 years from 13 is EXTREMELY slim. 13 year olds ARE still developing mentally, and will do so for years. no offense, but to think a 13 year old is mentally developed enough to handle decisions like marriage and child rearing is a bit ignorant. there are some things about adolescent development that cannot simply be advanced by socialization.
That's also true, but humans adapt. This actually has nothing to do with age. If you take an "adult" (40 year old) from the past and bring him to present time, he's probably going to feel lost as well because he was used to simpler times. Raise your child well enough, and he will behave accordingly, that goes for any time.

BTW, not too long ago, people in my country used to marry at a very early age, and their marriages were much more stable than the average marriage is nowadays. For example, my grandfather (may God have mercy on him) married my grandmother at a very early age, and everything worked out great. He had 10 kids and lived to be over a 100 :D.


on a side note, do you vote through your religion? do you want to keep people from being legally allowed to do sins? i'll go somewhere with this, if the answer is yes.
You're talking about something like establishing Islamic law, right? If so, then yes.

Mr Beer
11-26-2006, 01:01 AM
Yeah, there should be no age discrimination. For example, when babysitting other people's toddlers, if they point at the whisky in the cabinet, I generally pour them a full shot and show them how to drink it like a man! What the hell, it's a useful skill to acquire. It always livens up the friendly target shooting competitions later in the evening, when I bring out my old army pistol. Some of these kids are good shots as well, I have no idea why we don't let 6 year olds join the army and shoot themselves a real live terrorist. And I hear these NAMBLA people want to have sex with young boys; well if the kid is old enough to say yes, that's all I need to hear - get it on guys!

Yeah, screw discrimination! We're all people!

AKR
11-26-2006, 01:01 AM
That's also true, but humans adapt. This actually has nothing to do with age. If you take an "adult" (40 year old) from the past and bring him to present time, he's probably going to feel lost as well because he was used to simpler times. Raise your child well enough, and he will behave accordingly, that goes for any time.


i agree somewhat. i think that most parents aren't very good at raising their children, and a child that is raised "well" will tend to be more mature and responsible than the average 13 year old, but i still stand by what i said about socialization only going so far.



You're talking about something like establishing Islamic law, right? If so, then yes.

i just mean, do you want to keep things like prostitution, drugs, gay marriage, etc illegal. it seems to me that if you want to control ALL people from partaking in sins, you'd want to keep a firm hand on your children for as long as you can, so they do not have the opportunity to partake in such things, especially at a young age.

Inev
11-26-2006, 01:05 AM
people should really pay more attention to sociology and human development. not that i know a ton. but it is somethign everyone can learn from. It makes the world so much more clear.

EOY
11-26-2006, 01:14 AM
i agree somewhat. i think that most parents aren't very good at raising their children, and a child that is raised "well" will tend to be more mature and responsible than the average 13 year old, but i still stand by what i said about socialization only going so far.
The point is, since we know it worked in the past when kids lived as adults from a very early age, there's no reason why it wouldn't work now. Sure, times get more complicated, but so do we, and the way we raise our children can also adapt accordingly. It's highly unlikely nowadays because of the way our society is structured, but that doesn't make it impossible.


i just mean, do you want to keep things like prostitution, drugs, gay marriage, etc illegal. it seems to me that if you want to control ALL people from partaking in sins, you'd want to keep a firm hand on your children for as long as you can, so they do not have the opportunity to partake in such things, especially at a young age.

Well here's the thing, in Islamic law, every adult is accountable for his own actions regardless of age. Also, according to Islamic teachings, the son is always obligated to obey his father in whatever is lawful. So it all works out so that a firm hand is always kept on the individual when it comes to sins or practicing the unlawful.