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Eye2_Man
02-07-2003, 07:58 AM
Do you use a thermogenic or other fat-burner? Does it have adverse effects (when used according to directions) in conjunction with protein shakes, and vitamin tablets?

iluvlifting2001
02-07-2003, 08:46 AM
I have never had any effects from it. Usually just use them as a pick me up before working out but have done them as prescribed.
I would say to try the real deal sometime and not what you get at gnc. Get the Ephedrine, caffeine (no dose), half aspirin.

phikappa
02-07-2003, 09:52 AM
I usually take a couple of Ripped Fuel's before a workout. It really helps with motivation. I don't like taking more than two a day, since it can make me jittery and can make for a restless night's sleep. That's my only negative experience.

iluvlifting2001
02-07-2003, 10:38 AM
PhiKappa, you drink 2 of those before a workout. I would definently be buzzing from that. The grape is nice though.

Eye2_Man
02-07-2003, 10:44 AM
Never tried Ripped Fuel (or anything else). Will check it out.

I was thinking of getting some of these http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ansi/hydroxadrine.html
and taking it only in the mornings. Two weeks on, one week off. But it'll be in addition to 3 Liver Tabs and one Joint Boost cap.

Before evening workouts, Rage works really good. But you can't mix Rage and diet aids.

edster951
02-07-2003, 12:19 PM
xenadrine x2, 3 makes me jittery.

So I have 2 before weights and 3 before cardio. It helps burn it up. Take a sauna after cardio and guaranteed to be sweating for at least 30mins after.

Walk to work, and the sweat starts dripping again!!.

Love it.

"you've been taking those things again" my work colleague says.

phikappa
02-07-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by iluvlifting2001
PhiKappa, you drink 2 of those before a workout. I would definently be buzzing from that. The grape is nice though.

No, no, no....I take the pill form. Two pills before a workout and I'm ready to go. I'm fairly sensative to caffeine, that's why I don't/won't do any more than that.

iluvlifting2001
02-07-2003, 12:26 PM
Ohh, I was thinking about one of those ripped force drinks.

MagicMel
02-07-2003, 12:29 PM
If you are drinking Universal Rage without any reactions, then you probably won't have any problems with Hydroxydrine. It has the same stimulants as Rage. i.e. Ephedrine,Caffeine,Synephrine plus Aspirin. Actually the herbal form of these. Just follow the directions to test your tolerance, though.
Protein drinks and vitamin tabs pose no problems either.

Gator
02-07-2003, 03:31 PM
I make my own ECA stack..Cheaper that way..

Gator

Charger
02-08-2003, 12:59 PM
I took my own eca stack for a while and even though it was much cheaper I was not sure about one thing. I have to submit to random drug testing(work related) and I have heard too much ephidrine can cause a false positive???? Any thoughts?? I would rather go this route because besides cheaper I think I got better results.

MiloMan
02-08-2003, 02:56 PM
The cheapest (and healthiest) method of all is just to burn it off (at a slow and reasonable rate) with diet and cardio.

Axe
02-08-2003, 03:44 PM
Hey Gator...can you give us an idea of how you make your own ECA stack?

I have no clue where to start...

Charger
02-08-2003, 04:03 PM
I'm not Gator but it's this simple. ECA stack stands for Ephidrine-Caffiene-Aspirin. You can get them here, no doz tabs work but are much more expensive than the caff tabs you can get online.

TwoWalks
02-08-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Charger
Ephidrine-Caffiene-Aspirin.

Charger to match the dose for the normal ECA stack what would the amount for each be?

Charger
02-09-2003, 06:55 AM
Receipt for ECA stack, 400 mg caffeine
20mg ephedrine
2 aspirin
I just heard the other day that anything over 30mg a day in ephedrine is considered un-safe. I wanted to point that out and also say I would never recomend this to anyone, some consider it un-safe period. Saying all that, if you look on the labels of all the fatburners containing ephedrine these 3 ingredients will be there. They will list White willow bark as aspirin.

I never had a problem with this, I beleive it is people that go way over on there dosage that give ephedrine a bad name. Some just don't like it because it can make you jittery at first. I took two doses a day, the last after Dinner. If you take it too late in the afternoon it affects your sleep.

back2it
02-09-2003, 07:03 AM
I have never used them , I just cut calories or increase my workload when trying to slim down . My wife used xenadrine a little but never finished the bottle it gave her the jitters even at a low dose . She cut out certain foods and bought a mountain bike to reduce . It worked .

TwoWalks
02-09-2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Charger
I wanted to point that out and also say I would never recomend this to anyone, some consider it un-safe period.

Thanks Charger, this is for information purpose only and of course I would never use or recommend the use of such products :D

HankC
02-10-2003, 02:31 PM
I just finished a 4 week cycle of xenadrine - the first time I'd used such a product. Side affects I noticed (used per label instructions):

- Jitters, anxiety, and general unpleasantness the first few days of each dosage (1/2 dose first week, full dose 2-4 weeks). I generally have good tolerance to drugs and am an avid coffee drinker but I didn't really enjoy the xen experience.

- *Severe* nicotine cravings. I was planning on cutting back on tobacco at the same time I began the xen but it induced the worst nicotine cravings I've ever had. Oh well.

- Toward the end of week 4 I started getting mildly bad headaches. I don't know if this is xen related or not but I usually don't get headaches at all.

- Appetite suppression: none. If anything, the jitters made me want to eat.

- Sleep was unaffected. I took the second dose around 1:00 pm daily.

Results: after 4 weeks I lost about 10 pounds and 1.5 inches off the gut. In addition to the xen I ate 6 meals/day totalling around 2000 cal's. I walked a couple of miles twice a day, once right when I woke up and once around 9:00 pm. I can't really speculate on what the results would have been without the xen - it seems like walking 4 miles/day with a relatively light diet would have resulted in similar results without ECA.

roland
03-04-2003, 03:31 AM
Right now I'm on the fence about fat burners - I've taken hydroxycut several times over the past few years - I'll not be taking it again. I'm currently taking eas betalean and Phenfree on alternating days - I'm not having much faith. Here's a reprint of a post I made over in "Product Reviews":



I too, think hydroxycut is a waste of time. I have tried it several times over the past two years. The first time, I lost 10lbs with no extra exercise. After that, nothing. Never again did I get that first loss with that first bottle.

Lets look at the fine print from an ad in muscle & fitness, 3/03 p27:

"subjects lost an average of 10lbs in 8 weeks combining a 2000 calorie per day diet and 30 minutes of walking, 5 days a week."

thats about 1.25lbs per week. not a bad goal.

There are other factors involved, but lets look at this from a caloric standpoint. To lose 1lb of fat, we need to burn 3500 more calories than we take in. 1.25lbs/week would mean we have to burn 4375 more calories during the week than we take in.

Now, lets apply some math:

2000 cal/day, * 7 days, =14000 cal/week taken in.

Now, if I just took an average day, 8 hrs sleeping, 15 hours sitting, 30 min "very low level" activity (driving, piddling around office), and 30 min "low-level" activity (easy walking) thats:

3279 cal/day * 5 days, =16395

On my weekend, I did nothing, 8 hours sleeping, 16 hours sitting:

3202 cal/day * 2 days, =6404

Total calories expended for the week - 22,799. subract calories in, 14,000:

8799 calories deficit. That would result in an extra 2.5lbs being burned during the week (8799/3500)

And that's all *without* hydroxycut.

Now I realize that your mileage may vary and that these numbers are just *estimates* (taken from http://www.fitadvisor.com/schwinn/actcal/daily_cals.php) but the point still stands that if you eat better and exercise more, you get the same results as the hydroxycut test subjects. And you've saved $25/bottle. (or whatever it sells for)

I can't say what the other thermogenics are like - I've never used any others, but I do see that the "fine print" in all the ads are similar:

"results not typical"
"part of a complete fitness regimen including diet and exercise"
"participants have been renumerated"
etc etc.

If you've got the money to spend, and it'll keep you exercising, go for it. But if you're already motivated, focus on your fitness goals and program, and save your money for new clothes......

Peace,
Roland

PS: as far as side effects got, I've only experienced heartburn (occasionally, esp with hydroxycut) but if I take them before a run I'll get really nauseated about 14 minutes in. I can push past it but I now take them after I've worked out but before I eat.

Gator
03-04-2003, 06:15 AM
I know people that never come off their ECA stacks.
Good ? Bad ???
I take it twice a day, when I get up and then in the afternoon..
If I take it too late Im up all nite watchin "I Love Lucy" reuns..LOL

Too each his own, but it has worked for me.
But as Charger said, I too have heard to keep it under 30 mgs, just to be safe..

Good luck !

Gator

Belle
03-04-2003, 02:50 PM
I have citrimax added to my pre and post workout shake with protein and carbs. That is supposed to be a fat burner. Can also be used as a meal replacement too. Its the Olympian Diet (weider) brand of shakes. Don't know if you have them there?

It's a fat mobiliser and it is otherwise known as GARCINIA CAMBOGIA:

GARCINIA CAMBOGIA an extract of the Indian Brindall Berry (garcina cambogia) that has been found to dramatically increase the body's ability to convert food into glycogen. Glycogen is the body's fuel for energy consuming activities. When you have lots of glycogen in your body it triggers a signal to the brain telling it to suppress your appetite. The result is a marked decrease in the craving for fattening foods. In addition, GARCINIA CAMBOGIA slows the production of fat. This results in your cells burning it for energy at a faster rate. Not only do you eat less fat, but you also burn it faster. This has been proven by scientific double-blind studies conducted by Anthony Conte, M.D. Those participating in the study took 500mg of GARCINIA CAMBOGIA (You will be taking 3-6 a day) a day. After 60 days the average weight loss was 11 pounds. We recommend that you take 1500-3000mg per day of this very safe product to lose weight even faster. GARCINIA CAMBOGIA is also known as HCA.

You can buy citrimax tablets though and take the tabs with a normal shake I suppose.

maxallen
03-04-2003, 03:43 PM
I have to go along with miloman's and back2it's comments earlier in this thread. With an extensive family history of heart disease, hypertension, and high cholestoral, I'm not about to take an ECA combo for fat burning. As long as I get lots of sleep I don't need caffeine to get motivated in the gym (once I make it to the gym that is, re: my "back to it" thread).

Well, to each his/her own. If you want to take the risk of combining ephedrine and caffiene in your body that's your business, but for some reason I'm uncomfortable even reading about it here. I don't want any of you guys to have a heart attack! Be careful.