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View Full Version : DeadLift is a butt kicker?



Eye2_Man
02-02-2003, 01:58 PM
After doing more research the decision was made to include more of the basics. That is, squats, bench press, and dead lifts. Say, out of 32 sets, 20 would be dedicated toward building power and general muscle growth.

This was the first time ever to do dead lifts. They kicked my butt big-time. Is this typical for you guys? I can lift heavier weights doing bent over rows and military presses. And it took about a minute between reps to catch my breath. Is that right? I'm pretty sure the form was good. Arms extended at pickup and weight lifted with thighs. No back until the very end.

Is that right?

Oh, as a side note though... the dead-lifts were performed after doing 3 sets of squats. But there was a rest between.

Gollum
02-02-2003, 02:19 PM
Deadlifts are a killer.The feeling is normal.Aside from Squats,Deadlifts are the only exercise to make me feel nauseous.A very tough movement,with great results.

Your poundages will increase rapidly.I wouldnt rush it,though.Get your form down first,then gradually increase the weight.One or two minutes rest bewteen sets sounds fine to me.Here is a link that discusses proper Deadlift execution in detail:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=146525

I'm not crazy about the idea of doing Deadlifts after Squats.If you are on a power rountine,you might want to consider a Monday/Wednesday/Friday split doing Squats/Deadlifts/Bench along with perhaps some other exercises on their appropriate days.I cant imagine Deadlifting after Squats,but that's just me.

Eye2_Man
02-02-2003, 02:45 PM
Thanks Gollum. That's good hear (that DL's are so tough). But gains will be made rapidily.

2.5 more weeks of full body and a switch to 3 day split will be started. Each of the 3 days will include one "power" exercise only. Until then, probably best to take your advice and go easy for now. No injuries.

Thanks for the link.

I still can't believe it a took minute worth of rest between reps! Not sets. Just one dead lift! That really blew the 45min-60min total full body training time. It took over 30 minutes just to do the DL's. But nothing was cheated. 90 minutes out in the garage this morning.

Phatman1179
02-02-2003, 05:17 PM
Oh yeah, Gollum is absolutely right about not doing squats and deads together. I just spent the better part of two months at recovering from doing that. (Chiropractor included) And I was going really lite when I hurt myself.

wspe
02-02-2003, 05:39 PM
Personally I wouldn't deadlift on the same day as squatting.
If your doing them right; they SHOULD kick your butt...
YOU GO EYE MAN!!!!

DEADLIFTS RULE!!!!!


"The man that can't make a choice makes a choice"

Gollum
02-02-2003, 05:53 PM
Phatman,sorry to hear about your injury but glad to know you're back in action.

Unfortunately,a lot of folks have told me that they won't do Deadelifts because they fear injury.Some of that I think is just plain laziness since it's much easier to just crank out some cable rows and call it a day.But some of that statement is partly true.Deadlifts can be dangerous if performed improperly.But you can say that for most exercises,right?I mean,a sloppy bench can blow out a shoulder pretty quick.Another thing I think scares people away from Deadlifts is the huge amount of weight they see/hear about people using.Everybodys gotta start somewhere and there is no shame lifting 135 in perfect form if you are just starting out.

I encourage those interested in gaining mass and strength to include Deadlifts in their rountine.From my own experience,the gains you make from this exercise alone can be downright scary.And I'm not just talking about back,either.Deadlifts release a ton of GH,second only to Squats(some may argue this)which of course means more growth for the entire body.And we like that!

I posted a link above which is a good read for those interested in learning the proper way to Deadlift.To sum up,keep your head up,everything tight,suck plenty of air into the belly and drive with the legs like you are trying to push your heels into the floor.Obviously this exercise should be performed carefully and certainly anyone who has any doubt about whether or not they can handle it should consult a physcian before starting a power program.But keep in mind,there are far(FAR!) more injuries caused by machines than be free weights.

This week I go for my personal record.I am going to try to pull 405 lbs. :D


http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/prod.aspx?p=musclehedz.3547917

Gollum
02-02-2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by wspe

DEADLIFTS RULE!!!!!





Yeah,bro!Couldn't have said it better myself!

Hardcore!

MiloMan
02-02-2003, 06:47 PM
Deadlifts are great, and (much like squats) they sure make you feel like you just did something massive.

Injuries are most common among the self-conscious novice, whether they are deadlifting, squatting, and pretty much any other lift.

I've often seen beginners, usually young men or teenage boys (women aren't usually as image-conscious - about physical strength that is) screw up on these lifts.

They see someone that has been lifting for years do a lift, then (rather than using a weight right for them) use way too much weight, ruin their form as a result (if it was even good in the first place), and as a result strain/sprain something, herniate a disk, and whatnot.

Phatman1179
02-02-2003, 07:08 PM
Couldn't agree more. My injury was related to the fact that I super-setted Deadlifts and Squats. I was squating 285 for 10 reps then straight to the Deads (315) for 10. On the fourth and last set I felt my back get tired but I figgured I was just wussing out so I pushed through, Big mistake. I still love deadlifts but I'm not going to super set them with squats again, LOL.

Eye2_Man
02-02-2003, 08:50 PM
Thanks for all the advice. The idea of squats and DL's in the same workout will be quickly put out of mind.

Sorry to hear about your injury Phatman1179. Sounds painful.

Here's another question about DL's :

While researching more as to why they were so difficult this morning, a animated gif was found showing the proper form. My form wasn't exactly the same. But there was a reason.

I only have a bunch of small 10lb disks. My barbell was sitting probably a good foot (at least 6 inches) lower than the dude with the big 50lb plates. He didn't have to almost have his knuckles on the ground while getting a grip.

So, is it OK to "cheat" a little by placing the barbell on wood blocks? That way the reach and bend down will be a little more in line with what it should be.

Being a "play it where it lies" golfer, cheating is out of the question. But this is a different story. Right?

Gollum
02-03-2003, 03:24 AM
I agree with you.I wouldnt consider using blocks to raise the bar to a more workable level cheating.I dont think it will adversely effect your workout,either.All you are doing is bringing the bar to the height a 45lb plate would so no worries.

ctgblue
02-03-2003, 05:04 AM
I start my 'rep' deads from the rack, then take them to the floor.
Deads got me strong enough in my back to do squats again.
I started at 225 and can now pull over 500, with rack pulls over 600. My squats only hit 455 but they tend to work together, each exercise complimenting the other.
If you are working for the exercise and just muscle building, then a couple of inches off the floor is no big deal, chances are you're not squatting to legal parallel anyway.
If you ever plan to compete, you gotta pull from the floor, use partials and rack pulls, etc...
BTW, squats and deads burn the same amount or more calories in a given time frame as cardio. They are extremely intense exercises when done correctly and they usually make you feel a little queasy if done with enough intensity.
Leg day makes me feel ill at least 1-3 times each workout.
Deads don't as much anymore due to the amount of strength I've built. But the first 6 months I felt sick after every heavy set.

JEFF7322
02-03-2003, 09:32 AM
Doing deadlifts and squats the same session IS brutal! They pretty much work everything to a degree and both work simillarly (is that a word?) but in a different position. Expect some mass and power gains overall. I also use partial deadlifts ( start at knee level) and stiff legged deadlift on a smith machine.
-JEFF

MagicMel
02-03-2003, 10:00 AM
Ditto on not doing deads and squats on same day.

Originally quoted by Eye2_man
Being a "play it where it lies" golfer, cheating is out of the question. But this is a different story. Right?
Oh yeah, and you've never used a "hand wedge" before. :)

JEFF7322
02-03-2003, 10:39 AM
I find I can stiff legged more than regular style. I take it from the top position off the rack and do the negative lowering and take it back up. Go til about shin level on the negative. Since I'm not a competitive powerlifter too I use straps now. I find that helps as long as I keep up specific grip training.

Gator
02-03-2003, 11:49 AM
If yer really wanting to go ape****, try the Kortes 3 X 3
Go to www.deepsquatter.com, its there under archives I think...


Good luck !!!
Train safe..

Gator

Gollum
02-04-2003, 06:23 AM
Just got back from the gym.405 went up today in super strict form.No one would have red lighted me on that,baby!

I feel like I just took a beating from 3 big guys with bats.

But I'm happy!Cracked the 400 barrier.Nothing left to do now but set my sights on the big 5-0-0.

Hardcore! :D

Gator
02-04-2003, 06:31 AM
Congrats Gollum !!
Great way to start the day..

Gator

Originally posted by Gollum
Just got back from the gym.405 went up today in super strict form.No one would have red lighted me on that,baby!

I feel like I just took a beating from 3 big guys with bats.

But I'm happy!Cracked the 400 barrier.Nothing left to do now but set my sights on the big 5-0-0.

Hardcore! :D

iluvlifting2001
02-04-2003, 06:47 AM
Great job Gollum! I would have like to see that. We have a few guys benching in the 500-600 pound range. Love to watch it. When I am going heavy I can never see. Concentrating to much I guess or it is the lack of oxygen (lol).

Phatman1179
02-04-2003, 07:39 AM
Gret job on the PR Gollum!!

Eye2_Man
02-04-2003, 09:48 AM
400 pounds! That's incredible. You dead lift regularly, right? How much would you say you improve each month (or 3 months to account for swings)?

wspe
02-04-2003, 12:31 PM
Gollum;

what did your warm ups look like for the lift?

awesome dude...
not too far behind you..

Keep it up!!!!


"SWEAT WILL NOT KILL YOU"

Gollum
02-04-2003, 04:17 PM
First off,I want to thank all you guys for your kind words.It means a lot.My friends and co-workers are not into lifting,so if I came bounding into the office ranting about a Deadlift,they wouldnt even blink.So hearing the congrats from my fellow brothers of iron is good stuff.

Eye2man-I used to Deadlift regularly years ago.I returned to the gym after a long(three year) layoff in May of 2002.I wanted to get into shape before I started Deadlifting again .I incorporated them into my back rountine about 6 weeks ago.After three weeks of steady Deadlifting,I started going for a very heavy single on my last set.I gradually worked up to the 405.Next week I will shoot for 415 as I've been going up in 10lb increments after I got past 375.Bear in mind my back is my strongest bodypart so the "muscle memories" came back quickly.It's hard to say how much I,or anyone else,would improve monthly.Early on,you can imporve drastically.As you get stronger and the weights get heavier,you will start to slow down.When I started 6 weeks ago I was afraid to try for 315.Now I can get 405 clean,so thats a hell of an increase.But now it's gonna really slow down.If I were you,and if you Deadlift once a week,try adding 10lbs each workout.That would be a 40lb increase per month and should be relatively safe.Of course,that 10lb should feel like a ton if you are pushing yourself. :D

wspe-The rountine I'm doing is very simple.It's a basic pyramid.These are my weights from this morning:

135X15( warm-up)
295x9
315x6
335x4
375x2
405x1

So it's not really a max,per se.I already did 4 work sets before the single so my muscles were fatigued.I could probably lift more if I just came in fresh.But I'm not a powerlifter,I'm a bodybuilder.I lift heavy to gain fresh muscle,but not so heavy that it invites injury.405 is plenty heavy for me,and I'll work my way up to 500 slowly.

Thanks again,guys.

edit:Wanted to add something.Deadlifts and Squats are very similar.I find that people can lift a lot more than they think they can.A lot of it is mental.There is the fear factor that you have to overcome.Fear of failure,fear of injury,fear of looking stupid,whatever.Once you overcome this fear,those weights will start to move.I'm not suggesting lifting so heavy that you hurt yourself,hell no!I'm just saying dont let fear stand in your way!Hardcore!

Oh,and people can curl a lot LESS than they think they can! :D