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Eye2_Man
01-29-2003, 08:24 AM
If ya'll don't mind! One is kind of personal and came to mind after reading so many posts and articles from this site.

1) For you personally, is better health the primary reason for BBing and weight training? I'm not knocking enhanced sports performance or improved physical appearance. Those are products of BBing and WT. But there's a lot of weird talk on some of the forums regarding all kinds of chemicals (pro-hormones, steroids, experimental stuff, etc). Some of these, while strengthening performance and appearance, can't be too healthy for you. Right?

2) Do you guys and gals really eat 1.5g time your LBM of protein every day? How do you it? I've read a lot of articles and posts on this site concerning diet and nutrition. 5 or 6 smaller meals a day. Meat, tuna, eggs, etc. But it still seems almost impossible to eat enough food to get 225g (200lb person with 25% bf) of protein in one day. How do you (personally) do it?

3) Does remaining pumped 2 days after working out mean your muscles are still recovering and another off day is needed? Several posts on this site say that your muscles need 2-7 days of recovery. How can you tell when the recovery process is over and it's time to wear yourself out again?

Thanks for your advice and patience.

little lats
01-29-2003, 08:35 AM
1. I told myself I wanted a nice body by 30. I am 3 years off but not quitting. Health? Hell, we all heard of smokers living to 100 and 32 year olds dieing of Heart attacks. Do it for yourself no matter what.. ! :)

2. Cottage Cheese.. Protein shakes. 4*200 is only 800 Calories. You would be suprised if you weighed your meat (food type) and saw how many ounces you were really eating..

3. Depends on you. If I feel pumped I feel it is okay, If I am sore then probably not. It all depends on what kind of work out your doing. Unless I am doing a HST work out where the volume is spread through the week then, it is okay. Otherwise, I don't work out the same part twice with in a 7 day period. As long as no chemicals ar involved.

Just a cheesheads opinion...

MagicMel
01-29-2003, 08:50 AM
1) Initially, it was weight loss that got me into training, and I guess that just translates into better health, both physically AND mentally (self-esteem).
Creatine and NO2 are the strongest "chemicals" I will ever take. At 47 y/o, I don't need to be playing around with anything that has side effects, like PH's or roids.

2) Yes, I eat at least 1g per lb of LBM per day. I get to 1.5g probably 4-5 days per week. And yes, it is tough to do sometimes. On those days it helps to have a supply of protein bars handy, and especially protein shakes. At work, I make sure I have cold bottled water in the fridge, and a shaker bottle. You can just put the powder in a tupperware container and shake it up when you're ready.

3) When you're just beginning weight training, you will be sore for several days after your first few workouts. I believe a beginner should wait at least 24-36 hrs before he trains that bodypart again. As you get more experience, and you start taking your sets to failure, you have to allow even more time to recoup. When I was training heavy and to failure a little over a month ago, I only trained each bodypart once a week. Now with a more conservative routine, I train each bodypart 2 times a week. 1 moderate day (6-10 reps), 1 light day (12-15 reps) with enough weight to do the reps but NOT quite to failure on all but maybe 1 set. It has worked well for me with my rotator problem.

Homie
01-29-2003, 09:25 AM
1. For me it's all about how I look and feel. Looking good and being strong will make you feel good about yourself and life in general. I have supplemented in the past, but right now I'm not using anything.

2. My diet is all over the place, some days I do good on my protein intake... other days I'm choking down peanut butter sandwiches and milk at night.

3. I personally "LOVE" the feeling from a hard workout and feel that I slacked off if I'm not sore for a couple of days. I'm working on gaining size and strength right now (no toning), so I only work each bodypart once a week. Only you can decide how much rest you need, there are guys at my gym who bench every 3-4 days and seem to be making progress. Then again I'm making gains on my routine so experiment until you find what works for you.

Phatman1179
01-29-2003, 09:38 AM
Hi Eye2 (By the way is that your Golf club Ping Eye2)

1. Initially I wanted to attract the ladies. Didn't really care about my health. Which is what you probably see in the younger or main stream posts. That was 19 years ago, today I lift for stress relief and health, and yeah I still like to attract MY lady. (lol)

2. Try to eat Protein at every meal. I add up my protein requirement for the day and divide by # of meals. Here are my
Caloric Target Calculations, based on my Lean Body Mass (LBM).
There is no reason to include fat mass in the calculation unless you wish to maintain the fat.

255lbs X .77 (23%Fat Mass) = 195lbs LBM

2925 Total cal (Just to maintain LBM)
2475 Cal (To create a 500 calorie Deficit)

Workout Days
Protein: 1.5 x 195 = 292 grams X 4 = 1170calories
Carbs: 100 grams X 4 = 400 calories
Fat 930 Caliores

Non Workout
Protein: 1.5 x 195 = 292 grams X 4 = 1170calories
Carbs: 70 grams X 4 = 280 calories
Fat 1050 Caliores

3. I agree with Mel. If you are doing a split routine with high reps 36 to 48 hours should be ok. If you are training heavy wait 72 hours to train that body part again. But please don't Equate workout effectiveness to how sore you are.

Minotaur
01-29-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Eye2_Man
If ya'll don't mind! One is kind of personal and came to mind after reading so many posts and articles from this site.

1) For you personally, is better health the primary reason for BBing and weight training? I'm not knocking enhanced sports performance or improved physical appearance. Those are products of BBing and WT. But there's a lot of weird talk on some of the forums regarding all kinds of chemicals (pro-hormones, steroids, experimental stuff, etc). Some of these, while strengthening performance and appearance, can't be too healthy for you. Right?

For me it's all about how I look and therefore feel. I freely admit that part of my sense of well-being is tied to my looks. Not that I am vain or even have much reason to be vain, i.e., I am not a 'pretty boy'. But the idea of being more muscular and more defined than the average bear, especially the average bear my age is a driving force in why I weight train. I can be healthy with light to moderate weights and a little bit of cardio. But I want more than that. At 46 years old come July, I want to walk on the beach in a skimpy speedo and have heads turn.

OK, so I'm vain! :D


2) Do you guys and gals really eat 1.5g time your LBM of protein every day? How do you it? I've read a lot of articles and posts on this site concerning diet and nutrition. 5 or 6 smaller meals a day. Meat, tuna, eggs, etc. But it still seems almost impossible to eat enough food to get 225g (200lb person with 25% bf) of protein in one day. How do you (personally) do it?

At a current 200 lbs I take in roughly 245-300g of protein per day, though I rarely get over 250 (245-300 is the range I've calculated in fitday.com). If you aim for 30-40g of protein in each of those 6 meals, you can easily get 180-240g of protein per day. A can of tune, a boneless chicken breast, a typical whey shake all have 30-40g of protein, depending on size.


3) Does remaining pumped 2 days after working out mean your muscles are still recovering and another off day is needed? Several posts on this site say that your muscles need 2-7 days of recovery. How can you tell when the recovery process is over and it's time to wear yourself out again?

Thanks for your advice and patience.

Well, in my routine, I directly work a muscle once per week... Mon, legs; Wed, chest; Fri, back; Sat, arms and shoulders. Of course I do cardio on those days also. So it's usually a week between times I work a particular muscle. Usually more than sufficient to lose the soreness.

Hope this all helps. :)

edster951
01-29-2003, 10:47 AM
Nothing much more to add really except for number 3

If its still sore it hasn't recovered yet, so wait until its better.

After a good leg workout I can be sore for about 5 days, chest and arms 3 days, back doesn't seem to get sore, although I consider it my weakest part, especially while trying heavy squats.

Homie
01-29-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Minotaur
At 46 years old come July, I want to walk on the beach in a skimpy speedo and have heads turn.
WHOA...if I see you in a speedo bro I guarantee I'll turn my head. :-)

Minotaur
01-29-2003, 10:59 AM
Wow, gee thanks! :) I think. :confused: Yeah, yeah, that's it... a compliment! :D

Phatman1179
01-29-2003, 11:25 AM
Just my opinion, No man, No matter what the shape, should ever ware a Speedo. LOL

little lats
01-29-2003, 11:27 AM
LMAO..... :D

phikappa
01-29-2003, 11:54 AM
My responses are pretty close to Homie's, but here they are anyway....

1) It's all about how I feel. If I'm looking good, I'm feeling good. If I'm stronger, I'm feeling good. If I'm leaner, I'm feeling good. If I'm not working out, I'm feeling bad. This is the source of my motivation, 'cuz if I don't workout, I'm gonna feel bad.

2) I don't get hung up on numbers. I try to keep my diet high in protein, stay away from sugar, keep the fiber up....that's about it. I don't concern myself with too much detail. Usually, my breakfast and lunch are routine. Dinner is whatever my wife makes!

3) I usually don't stay "pumped" for several days. I'll be a little stiff the day after, but after a day of rest I'm ready to go again. I usually work each body part once a week, but I don't see anything wrong with doing something everyday (as long as your workouts are brief). If you can make gains with several days rest, then more power to ya. For a beginner, I would recommend a day of rest in between and I'd also recommend more warm-up sets, especially for someone over 35. Your muscles may be ready, but your ligaments and tendons take longer to respond. You want to avoid injury at all costs.

Good luck!

Minotaur
01-29-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Phatman1179
Just my opinion, No man, No matter what the shape, should ever ware a Speedo. LOL

It's just the principle of it. :D

Homie
01-29-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Phatman1179
Just my opinion, No man, No matter what the shape, should ever ware a Speedo. LOL AMEN TO THAT BROTHA! :D

Homie
01-29-2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Minotaur
Wow, gee thanks! :) I think. :confused: Yeah, yeah, that's it... a compliment! :D If seeing a grown man scream and run away makes you feel better, then YEAH it's a compliment bro! :D

maxallen
01-29-2003, 02:08 PM
I'm only going to address question 1 here, and I'm afraid it's going to get a little wordy....

When I found myself out of shape at age 30-32, I realized I had to do something about it, because I was becoming just like my dad, who died of a heart attack at age 51. My maternal grandfather, an aunt, and several great-uncles also died of heart attacks in their 50's. My mother and several other family members died of cancer in their early 60's. Not a good family history. In my early 30's I didn't really give much thought to how I looked, because although I was not in shape, I wasn't overweight so I thought I was okay. Since I felt good and healthy, it was REALLY hard to get motivated to start working out. But since I was getting older, I knew - I just knew - that I had to do something or I would die young. So for me, it was all about being healthier and living longer.

Now that I've been doing this for 6 years or so, I'm realizing the other great benefits that everyone has mentioned here: I look better and feel better, and I'm more confident in myself. Working out for me is a means of living longer with fringe benefits, and now that I'm addicted to it, I would keep it up even if my family had a history of longevity. My new doctor is amazed that I'm even concerned about dying young, because he thinks I'm extremely healthy, and he thought I was in my 20's until he looked at my chart. He was shocked that I have high blood pressure (for which I take Accupril) until I told him of my family history. When I went for my last annual physical he thought it wasn't necessary, but I insisted on an EKG and a full blood workup. This year, when I turn 39, I'll get my first colonoscopy, even though he thinks I'm too young. When I talked to him about my concerns, and my dad dying at 51, he said (jokingly, I hope), "I think you'll make it to 52."

That's why I workout!

MiloMan
01-29-2003, 02:37 PM
1. Strength - that's why I started 20 years ago, and why I still lift. The appearance is (to me) a side benefit, but not the primary goal.

2. I don't really keep track of what I eat. I eat a lot of what I call "basic farm food", i.e. red meat, veggies, beans, milk, big sandwiches, etc.

Gollum
01-29-2003, 03:00 PM
I'll join in..

1.I'm afraid I fall into the vain catergory.I train primarily for appearance.I train as though I was getting ready for a contest,even though I'm not.I go for size,shape and symmetry.I certainly enjoy the other benefits such as added stregnth,improved health and all that.But the truth is I want to be HUGE!I have a severe case of bigorexia.I feel as though I missed the boat in a way,since in my late teens early 20s when I should have been doing some serious growing I didnt have the knowledge that I have now.Regardless of that,I'm still gonna get as big as I can.As far as prohormones,steroids and experimental stuff goes,sure I have used it.I am currently on a prohormone cycle,have another more powerful one ready to go,have used steroids in the past and will probably again in the future.I look at it like this:I dont smoke,I dont drink,I dont use recreational drugs,I barely take a freakin' aspirin,I eat healthy and I train hard.I feel that my body can handle the INTELLIGENT and CAUTIOUS use of these products.There is a difference between PH/AS use and abuse.

2.I eat enough protein to make King Henry VIII cringe...lol!I use a lot of shakes,bars and endless cans of tuna.

3.Edster and the rest of the gang summed up #3

And I'll just add...men shouldnt wear speedos...thank you and good night!

TrishB
01-29-2003, 04:01 PM
1. I workout/diet to look good. :)
Becoming healthier because of it is just an added benefit.

2. Latest diet: 2gm of protein per pound of lean body mass.

3. Only work the same muscle group hard, once a week.

back2it
01-29-2003, 04:08 PM
1 . Right now I a training primarily for appearance , Health has always been a concern of mine and even when I was younger working out hard , making little progress I still would not take anything that resembled a steroid . I got into this for my health and appearance will not over rule my prime goal . I never want to be diagnosed with something that I would think I could have prevented by being smarter .
2 . I am making good progress now {rebuilding my bod'} and I have no real idea how much protein I consume . My calorie intake is about 20 per lb . and I eat lots of fiber , do not add sugar to anything and recently increased dairy products to help me add some "good" weight .
3 . I think the only true way to know how often you should lift is after a lot of experimentation . You should be able to lift a bit more or make another rep each time you exercise in at least one of your compund exercises , like squat , dead , bench or pulldowns . If I can add a little to one or more then I know I have recovered from the last workout . If I can't I think have missed some sleep , had a bad day at work etc in order to assess if it was that or if I hadn't recovered . If I can't add weight or do more reps for 2 sessions I figure I need more rest between workouts if everything else in my life has been in order .

Charger
01-29-2003, 04:49 PM
1. Not really, I do it for the love of the sport. I feel great after a hard workout, size and strength are also part of it. As for supps, to each his own. I like the more natural approach and have never really considered roids but may try pro-hormones. Creatine is natural by the way, you get creatine naturaly from food even if you didn't supp with it.

2. Do I eat that much protein, YEP:D If you want to build a house, you got to eat the protein, no if's or buts.

3. Pumped 2 days after????? Sign me up:D I have NEVER been pumped any longer than shortly after my workout. Now I ahve suffered from REALLY sore muscles for days(up to 5 for legs) and most agree it is best not to train again until they are recovered.
Simple rule I use for recovery, if you are still making gains using strict form, then you are recovering, if not you are overtraining.
Most also beleive in the once per week rule. I don't always follow that, such as when doing GVT.

Gator
01-30-2003, 04:35 AM
1) Well after my college career was over I wanted to maintain what i had and add more quality muscle, thats why Im still playin this game..
Plus its fun and keeps me outta some trouble.. :)

2) protein shakes, pb &j's, heck i was woofin a shake at one point that had 2000 calories in it, if u want calories, just start eating pot pies, i did that one summer and slapped on the lbs, alot was fat but my weights went thru the roof, its a give and take..u have to eat to maintain, much less grow, its easy once u start w/the shakes, look into that or post a thread askin about which shakes we all use..

3) im doing GVT right now, so Im a mess..im sore and pumped at the same time..

Good luck Eye..

Gator

Axe
01-30-2003, 06:41 AM
Thanks guys! I had exactly the same questions as Eye2. :)

Female Speedos ONLY please!!!!!

giantfan43
01-31-2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by Phatman1179
Just my opinion, No man, No matter what the shape, should ever ware a Speedo. LOL

I have to second that !

Eye2 -

Can't really add anything other than what the others have said .. I got into this years ago like most, to look good and get girls .. I recently started again about a year ago cuz I just got through with a diet and lost fat and muscle .. so, I picked up the weights again .. started feeling good and became addicted .. I really do this for myself .. other than that, I try to eat as much protein as possible .. honestly, only in the last 6 weeks or so have I been tracking it and at 215 lbs., I try to get 250 grams minimum per day .. lots of shakes and bars, eggs, chicken and tuna for me ! ..

giantfan43
01-31-2003, 06:07 AM
Sorry eye2 .. one more thing on your comment about roids and such .. I use creatine, glutamine, glocuosamine, and a multi .. and that's it for me ! .. I never even considered using steroids although I do know some folks that do .. To each his own, I say.. IMO, and no offense to anyone, if your not in this for the money, why take the risk .. what's the benefit !?! .. oops.. may have gotten a little preachy there .. sorry !