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batteryrequired
01-24-2003, 09:25 AM
Ok, I am 41 years old, 6'3" and 201# w/ 22%BF from what this techno scale we use around here. I have been lifting for many years and I am in excellent shape except for the love handles. I eat very clean. I have lost 2% of that BF now and have cut back on my carbs. I eat mostly tuna (4 cans a day), chicken, some brown rice and broccoli at lunch w/ my chicken, oatmeal (mainly an hour or so before my workout), EAS whey drinks sometimes 4 a day, 2 EAS low carb protien bars, cottage cheese, 3-4 egg whites. I have a very high metabolism and tend to burn muscle tissue if I don't keep my protien level high. I struggle to stay at 200#. What can I do to strip my stomach area of the excess fat? I started cardio 2-3 times weekly now for the past 3 weeks. I do a split training for my workouts and intend to keep trying to gain mass. Chest is 47 1/2", arms 16 1/2, waist 34", quads 24-25", calves 16". I also use EAS Cytovol for recovery which works excellent along w/ EAS Sytolvol. Great stuff.
I will try to post a pic later. Any help with stripping the fat and or adding mass would be a great help.

Homie
01-24-2003, 10:08 AM
Become very good friends with cardio bro. It sounds like you are doin' everything right, and having a 34" waist at your size is just about perfect. Regular ab work along with continuing your cardio should take care of those "love handles" (although I suspect you're being a little hard on yourself). Take care bro and good luck.

MagicMel
01-24-2003, 10:11 AM
Stripping the fat (cutting) and adding mass (bulking) are two different things that I like to treat separately. i.e. I'm either working on one OR the other but not both at the same time. Based on your thread title, I assume your priority is cutting.

First of all I consider myself a beginner at all of this, so take my minimal experience into consideration.

My first and only cutting cycle was this last summer and I lost almost 30lbs. My weight training was split, upper/lower. 12-15 reps, 5-6 sets per body part. No more than 60sec rest between sets. Each body part trained 2x per week.
Cardio 5x per week. HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) in the final month, on Recumbent Bike or Elliptical Trainer.
Calories were SLOWLY dropped to 500 cal below maintenance by the middle of the 2nd month.
I added CLA, L-Carnitine, Chromium Picolinate, and Vitamin Lab's Lipotropic Factors as my supps.

Is your body fat scale by Tanita, by any chance. I heard if reads a little high as far as BF%. Sometimes as high as 5% over the water dunking method. It is ok as far as measuring change, but the absolute number might not be accurate. I have a Tanita scale, but I just don't trust the BF%.

You are 6'3" with a 34" waist. Not to mention a 13" difference between chest and waist. That sounds pretty ideal to me.
Got to see a pic of these "love handles" .

BuckyBoy
01-24-2003, 10:26 AM
Yeah I think you are on the right track as well. I would, however, add a couple of comments.

First I didn't see your daily calorie intake. I suspect for someone your size it is probably a bit low. What you are saying here reads like your body is in starvation mode. I suggest figuring out what your base calories should be and shoot for 500 below that as MagicMel said. You may find you aren't eating enough.


Also I am not sure how much Cytovol you are using for recovery, but if your body is going for the muscle, chances are you aren't taking enough. I also use Cytovol(Glutamine) and just recently increased the amount I was taking to 2 scoops per glass, twice a day, and 1 scoop post workout w/ whey protein.

Synthevol is a different animal. It is a creatine delivery system. It has a minute amount of glutamine in it as well. But here's what I have found w/ Synthevol, I look fatter. A lot of that is because of the sugars in it necessary to spike insulin to get the creatine into the muscle. The other part is that creatine pulls water into the muscle. Because of that I am not a big creatine user.

Finally. Based on your diet you are almost doing a low/no carb diet. If you are looking at doing that, I would suggest a Keto diet. It will have you dropping any excess body fat in a hurry, since your body shifts from using carbs for energy to fat for energy. This is the thread to the Keto sticky:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67743.

Good luck with the cut!

batteryrequired
01-24-2003, 10:31 AM
Thanks Homie. Yeah I figure I am going to have to keep on this cardio big time. I just want the 6 pack to show now. Going to increase the intensity and weight on chest and arms next week. Always changing the routine is working great on the chest and arms. Lats are a big behind I think. Pull ups are out of the question with this nagging shoulder that cringes me in pain when I lower my body. I can do pull downs and do all other shoulder workouts, but the pull ups just kill me. Not sure whats up there but I am laying off of that one for a bit. Added t-bar rows hard and heavy. First few days hurt afterwords...awesome. I love that kind of hurt. :D
Thanks for the info.
Anything in particular boost the metabolism for fat burning such as Xenedrine or will I wind up burning up mass also?

MagicMel
01-24-2003, 10:55 AM
I was thinking about stacking Xenadrine with Guggulbolic in my next cutting phase in March. Each works differently at fat burning.
I'm still not totally decided on that just yet. I'll do a little more research.

Can't do pulldowns or chins w/o pain? I've been using Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM to help with joint pain. Give that a shot, but wait a couple weeks for it to take effect. You could also add 1 arm db rows, or seated cable rowing for back, too.

batteryrequired
01-24-2003, 11:01 AM
I have been taking glucosomine w/ MSM for several years now. Its not an ache like that. Its a sharp pain. Something that will have to heal with time I am sure. Shoulders are a bear to heal up from what I hear.
Let me know how the stack works out for you. Looking forward to seeing my abs for a change. Got to get ready for the spring. Plus the wife loves it too.... :)

IPR
01-24-2003, 01:58 PM
Hi battery, welcome.

Homie amd mel have given you good pointers already, but one thing caught my eye.

You say you have a fast metabolism and that if you burn muscle if you don't keep your protein level high. The problem is the more protein you wat, the more it becomes the prefered fuel source.

If youre naturally this way, you may want to consider a low carb or keto approach. Sounds like an advert foe keto I know :D but what can I say.......

mntbikedude
01-24-2003, 02:06 PM
I'm gonna get flamed for saying this but in a word....liposuction...at our age there are just fat deposits that won't come off.....so I had my saddle bags taken off....my only regrett is not having the stomach done at the same time.....lipo is not for fat people it is for people who after doing all they can have deposits of fat that just wont leave........

Phatman1179
01-24-2003, 03:04 PM
I don't know about the Liposuction, I'm new around these parts so I won't flame anyone, I would just ask if You are SURE you have tried everything before going down that road.

BatteryRequired - You say your eating clean, but do you keep a food log? Have you figured out what your Maint Calories are for your Body? Do you exactly what your Macro Nutrients levels are for each day? Also I wouldn't do more than 3 - 30 minute Cardio sessions per week, anything more than that and you'll be burning up Muscle instead of Fat. Consider instead doing some HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) not to be confused with HIT.

mntbikedude
01-24-2003, 03:44 PM
yeah I hear ya but .......the nice thing is once those cell are gone they stay gone......did'nt cost that much and it best of all it stayed gone......

IPR
01-25-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by mntbikedude
yeah I hear ya but .......the nice thing is once those cell are gone they stay gone......did'nt cost that much and it best of all it stayed gone......

Is this true?

I understand that fat cells die and are replaced or not replaced all the time. Stem cells produce new cells if required and these can grow into mature fat cells.

I can understand this if you maintain a low bf% after having it done, but if you should become overweight again, don't new fat cells take the place of the old ones?

And, if you are maintaining a low bf% anyway, the fat cells you had removed would have died off (although slowly) with the same end result?

mntbikedude, I had thought fat cell numbers were fixed or something like that, but you post made me read more, thanks.

mntbikedude
01-25-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by IPR
Is this true?

I understand that fat cells die and are replaced or not replaced all the time. Stem cells produce new cells if required and these can grow into mature fat cells.

I can understand this if you maintain a low bf% after having it done, but if you should become overweight again, don't new fat cells take the place of the old ones?

And, if you are maintaining a low bf% anyway, the fat cells you had removed would have died off (although slowly) with the same end result?

mntbikedude, I had thought fat cell numbers were fixed or something like that, but you post made me read more, thanks.

My understanding is that you have a limited number of fat cells and when they are removed they are gone forever......I did my saddlebags on my hips .....cause I just could'nt get rid of them....I had them in my twenties even when I was still a stick boy ....so I really dont believe any amount of dieting would ever have made them go away.......and that is exactly who benefits most from lipo.....I have never regretted it only wish I had done both front and back....

MiloMan
01-25-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by mntbikedude
My understanding is that you have a limited number of fat cells and when they are removed they are gone forever
So, if you sucked nearly every bit of fat out of a body, then force-fed them like they were walter hudson for 5 years, they wouldn't get fat?

Read it:

http://www.cdc-cdh.edu/hospital/cardio/art83.html

mntbikedude
01-25-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by MiloMan
So, if you sucked nearly every bit of fat out of a body, then force-fed them like they were walter hudson for 5 years, they wouldn't get fat?

Read it:

http://www.cdc-cdh.edu/hospital/cardio/art83.html

well first off I started by saying that it was my understanding.......and second I made it clear that lipo is for spot fat removal not for obese......and I was glad that I did it.....I had no complications and it did'nt come back. But then I also watch what I eat and exercise.....which is what you are told to do .....it is not some extreme surgery but it is surgery......I went on a 10 mile hike the week after.

MiloMan
01-25-2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by mntbikedude
I had no complications and it did'nt come back.
How long ago did you have the procedure performed?

mntbikedude
01-25-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by MiloMan
How long ago did you have the procedure performed?

5 years ago

mntbikedude
01-25-2003, 07:09 PM
well here is a link you prolly have seen this pic but you can see clearly the first pic is age 27 and the big one is age 45 but the way my hands are you cant see it but its all I have for quick access.....but you can see that even though I was pretty skinny I still had the handles.......I really dont think I could ever have lost enough weight to really have them gone otherwise......hey it was all of $1500.....and gone

IPR
01-25-2003, 08:45 PM
I am not flaming you at all mntbike, just interested in the science behind it all.

Its interesting that they told you to watch your diet after. This is consistent with what I read, basically the fat cells could grow back.

Here is a link to a radio interview which talks about this subject (not lipo but fat cells dying and growing) which might interest you.

http://abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s20847.htm

I think people who have lipo and assume thats it I can't get fat now are misguided. You however, have not.

mntbikedude
01-25-2003, 08:51 PM
I never imagined that I did'nt have to keep working out.....it was just that I had gained some muscle ......but I still had the dang fat ring......so thats all .....it was just part of the process. Nor did I ever think for the slightest moment that I did'nt have to worry about diet.......there is the fact that they do however make a micro incision stick a tube in and suck.......it was just that easy......so I really don't care about the science all I care about is that the fat was G-O-N-E.......and 5 years latter it is still gone.....

However I totally agree with you that people that think this is an easy way out are wrong or that think they can't get fat......I just figured it would go other places ......or people that are really fat should not consider lipo.....fact is the best demographics for people who do well with lipo are people like us.....

batteryrequired
01-27-2003, 05:21 AM
Hey all, thanks for all of the advice. Mtbike...think I will pass on the lipo deal, thanks for posting though. Very informative discussion on that subject. Going to stick with my 3 times a week cardio for the time being and give it some more time. Jeans are fitting a little looser. Phatman, where can I find info on HIIT? If its anything like Arnolds Schwartznegers chest/back workout routine that I just read in Flex magazine....that is intense!!!

Gator
01-27-2003, 05:30 AM
Hey bud..
Most of the stuff u read in the magazines is crap..
But it makes for good reading tho..

Good luck !!!

Gator

Originally posted by batteryrequired
Hey all, thanks for all of the advice. Mtbike...think I will pass on the lipo deal, thanks for posting though. Very informative discussion on that subject. Going to stick with my 3 times a week cardio for the time being and give it some more time. Jeans are fitting a little looser. Phatman, where can I find info on HIIT? If its anything like Arnolds Schwartznegers chest/back workout routine that I just read in Flex magazine....that is intense!!!

Phatman1179
01-27-2003, 06:07 AM
Here you go Battery, I pulled this from a thread on T-mag. It came from Joel Marion, I got some awesome advice from him on my diet and work outs:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HIIT is simply alternating periods of max effort with periods of low intensity during a given workout. An example of this would be sprinting for 30 seconds and then jogging very slowly for thirty seconds. You can start with 5 or so intervals (5 minutes) and work your way up to ~15 (I would go any higher than this).

Research has shown that HIIT is the best type of workout to burn fat, elevate metabolism for extended periods of time (up to 48 hours) and increase both anaerboic and aerobic capacity (VO2MAX).

You can find two sample HIIT sprinting routines on my cardio page @ www.tcnj.edu/~marion4/cardio.html

batteryrequired
01-27-2003, 06:13 AM
Otherwords like when I am doing my treadmill cardio, I walk a very fast pace (almost to a jog) for 3 min. then run for 3 then back to a fast paced walk again........ for 30 minutes. I have been increasing the speed each week. I can tell my body is still going pretty hard yet even after a cooldown session for several hours afterwards. Sounds like I am on the right track then. Thanks

Phatman1179
01-27-2003, 06:16 AM
Don't go for 30 min, with this you just need to do 15 it's very intense. You can do this with anything... Jump rope, Bike, treadmill, dance. It's very flexable.