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View Full Version : THE TRUTH ABOUT ISRAEL and the MIDDLE EAST CONFLICT...



HalleluYAH
08-07-2006, 10:15 AM
"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."

For more read: http://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.asp

My understanding...
The history of the Hebrew peoples starts with the man Abraham who was chosen by YAHWEH to live according to faith. During his life, Abraham's wife Sarah had him sleep with his maidservant becuase she was fearsome they would not have a child due to them being past child bearing age. YAHWEH had promised Abraham a son, but their fear led them to this move of desperation. Thus, the maidervant gave birth to Ishmael. Soon after, Srah became pregnant, and gave birth to the child YAHWEH promised to Abraham named Isaac. Isaac later gave birth to Jacob, whose name was later changed to Israel.

Ishmael along with his mother (the maidservant) were sent away into the dessert by Sarah, while Isaac the child of the promise was left to fufill his destiny as the lineage of Abraham's true seed which later became known as Israel.

The bible is clear on this issue...
"And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."
Genesis 16:11-12

"And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."
Genesis 17:20

Paul later brings this picture together for us...
"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."
Galatians 4:22-31

RangerX
08-07-2006, 10:21 AM
Oh boy... here we go. This one should bring some eventful replies...

etech
08-07-2006, 10:23 AM
Oh boy... here we go. This one should bring some eventful replies...


I was trying to just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.

RangerX
08-07-2006, 10:26 AM
I was trying to just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.

Who? What? Where?

On to the next thread.

HalleluYAH
08-07-2006, 10:28 AM
I was trying to just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.
you can pretend history as outlined in the bible did not happen as well, but the attempt will be futile at best.

YAH spoke to Abraham a promise that his descendants would form a Nation of which can not be counted, and it has happened both as children through blood and as children through faith. So the whole world, even the Nazi regime, can hate on the state of Israel and the Jewish people all they want. YAH chose this Nation to be a physical representation of HIS character and power on earth to believers and non-believers alike. That is why they are still a nation to this day.

Here's a little math for you...

YAHWEH SPEAKS = IT HAPPENS

RangerX
08-07-2006, 10:30 AM
I don't think his comment had that intent. I think perhaps he was viewing the outcome and all the possible flamebait posts that would happen as a result of posting something like this... (well, that how I thought at least)

No harm intended friend...

:)

MonsterG8r
08-07-2006, 10:48 AM
you can pretend history as outlined in the bible did not happen as well, but the attempt will be futile at best.

YAH spoke to Abraham a promise that his descendants would form a Nation of which can not be counted, and it has happened both as children through blood and as children through faith. So the whole world, even the Nazi regime, can hate on the state of Israel and the Jewish people all they want. YAH chose this Nation to be a physical representation of HIS character and power on earth to believers and non-believers alike. That is why they are still a nation to this day.

Here's a little math for you...

YAHWEH SPEAKS = IT HAPPENS

Good post. For anyone who wants to debate the history of Israel, look no further than how the country got its name in the first place. Abraham-Isaac-Jacob whose name was changed by YAH Himself to Israel. The name actually comes from our Bible...go figure. At least one thing from the Bible is true. lol

EOY
08-07-2006, 01:45 PM
So is God racist?

And what did the poor children of Hagar do to deserve this?

MonsterG8r
08-07-2006, 04:57 PM
So is God racist?

And what did the poor children of Hagar do to deserve this?

Gee, I don't know, sex with a mistress as opposed to your wife? According to the Bible, Isaac was the son of promise conceived in wedlock. Ishmael was conceived because Abraham and Sarah would not wait on God. And no, God is not racist, he simply chooses whomever He wills. And, he chose Isaac. Jacob was Isaac's son and his name was changed to Israel. He had twelve sons from where we get the 12 tribes of Israel, including Judah. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah....the lion of the tribe of Judah. Messiah was Jewish, that's why the sons of ishmael are beside themselves trying to push Israel into the sea. A 4000 year spat between brothers that will go on until the Father of Israel(Isaiah 9:6) returns in His Glory to put an end to this mess. Even so, come Lord Jesus!!Amen.

coontang
08-07-2006, 05:09 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with Santa Clause putting Ishmael on the naughty list a long time ago.

MonsterG8r
08-07-2006, 05:29 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with Santa Clause putting Ishmael on the naughty list a long time ago.

Concur. Lots of coal in that stocking.:D

TranceNRG
08-07-2006, 06:13 PM
There's mp justification religiously or historically for Zionists to occupy to the land.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=851704&highlight=Zionism

Those who are aware of Judaism and follow it closely are against Zionism.

solarize
08-07-2006, 06:42 PM
My moto is Religion is War.

I would also argue that in the modern era, Religion is illogical.

However, you are entitled to your views.

MonsterG8r
08-07-2006, 06:48 PM
There's mp justification religiously or historically for Zionists to occupy to the land.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=851704&highlight=Zionism

Those who are aware of Judaism and follow it closely are against Zionism.

That's not what John Hagee said today on TBN.

EOY
08-07-2006, 06:56 PM
Gee, I don't know, sex with a mistress as opposed to your wife?

But how is that the children's fault? They were just born in that state. What did they do to deserve to be looked down upon outcasts?

MonsterG8r
08-07-2006, 07:09 PM
But how is that the children's fault? They were just born in that state. What did they do to deserve to be looked down upon outcasts?

According to the Bible, they don't have to be outcasts. They are Gentiles. Many Arabs are Christians in Christ's Church, God's New Testament Bride.

EOY
08-07-2006, 07:19 PM
According to the Bible, they don't have to be outcasts. They are Gentiles. Many Arabs are Christians in Christ's Church, God's New Testament Bride.

They WERE outcasts according to the Bible, for fault of their own. Anyways, I'll point out one more thing:


Gee, I don't know, sex with a mistress as opposed to your wife?

According to the Qur'an, Ishmael (pbuh) was a completely legitimate son of Abraham (pbuh). Abraham (pbuh) was a prophet, and prophets do not sin. It actually makes sense this way (because prophets aren't supposed to commit adultry).

illriginal
08-07-2006, 07:23 PM
As I was reading that, I was wondering that, but the answer that's given to us is; God wills who ever God chooses.

I never really thought of that specific question EOY... good question.

TranceNRG
08-07-2006, 08:02 PM
That's not what John Hagee said today on TBN.

Who is he?
What did he say?

:)

MonsterG8r
08-07-2006, 10:24 PM
Who is he?
What did he say?

:)
TV preacher. Said the land belong to israel and backed it up with a gazzillion Old Testament verses.


http://www.jhm.org/

tutendow
08-07-2006, 11:29 PM
Here's some truth about the subject, long reading, but worth it:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~eenhoorn/

Here's a closing statement from George Washington:

"A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one nation the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens who devote themselves to the favorite nation, facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation."

TranceNRG
08-07-2006, 11:34 PM
TV preacher. Said the land belong to israel and backed it up with a gazzillion Old Testament verses.


http://www.jhm.org/

So, you think a televangelist, knows more about Judaism than an ultraorthodox Jew?

These televangelists, and in fact the evangelic lobby in states, push for the state of Israel, because they want to fulfill a prophecy from the bible. It's not because they care for the Jews or Israelis.

Think about it... by pushing to fulfill this prophecy and strengthening their own faith, they would be in odds with the Jews themselves, who do not believe in Jesus as christ/saviour.



Don't you think that ultraorthodox Jews, know about Judaism better than a televanlegist?

HalleluYAH
08-08-2006, 04:52 AM
As I was reading that, I was wondering that, but the answer that's given to us is; God wills who ever God chooses.

I never really thought of that specific question EOY... good question.
"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil" Proverbs 16:4

sjl25
08-08-2006, 05:05 AM
Nice post HalleluYAH.

HalleluYAH
08-08-2006, 06:50 AM
Nice post HalleluYAH.
Thank you brother. :)

illriginal
08-08-2006, 11:58 AM
HalleluYah... how do you feel that there's scriptures on papyrus proving that Judas never betrayed Jesus Christ?... Infact it tells a different story than what the NT says?

Not only that... but you do realize Prophets are not to be worshipped. They're just as human as us. Jesus Christ was already our savior, we never had to pray to Jesus in order to be saved or to go to Heaven in other words, it was already planned. Jesus the is the savior of the human race, but to those who follow the words of God and God's laws and study the words of the prophets, God's servants.

You do realize that Jesus Christ and all other prophets will fail you, will walk away from you for worshippin them, and not God. Shouldn't favor any prophet in prayer, only God, because God's a jealous God and is the only worthy being to be worshipped and prayed to.

If that made any sense.

P.S. Also keep in mind that if Judas never betrayed Jesus, would that mean that Jesus was actually never crucified... wouldn't that mean that the story of Jesus gettin slaughtered and his own town being burned down to the grown come to mind? Oh and the devilish ones were the Romans.

MonsterG8r
08-08-2006, 12:10 PM
So, you think a televangelist, knows more about Judaism than an ultraorthodox Jew?

Actually it was kinda tongue n cheek

.




Don't you think that ultraorthodox Jews, know about Judaism better than a televanlegist?

Not without the Holy Spirit.

MonsterG8r
08-08-2006, 12:20 PM
You do realize that Jesus Christ and all other prophets will fail you, will walk away from you for worshippin them, and not God.
If that made any sense.

Hebrews 13:5 talking about Jesus "He will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

illriginal
08-08-2006, 12:39 PM
Bull****... if you're a pagan they will "forsake" you and send you right to hell where you belong for worshippin anything but God. Learn the facts.

HalleluYAH
08-08-2006, 12:42 PM
HalleluYah... how do you feel that there's scriptures on papyrus proving that Judas never betrayed Jesus Christ?... Infact it tells a different story than what the NT says?

Not only that... but you do realize Prophets are not to be worshipped. They're just as human as us. Jesus Christ was already our savior, we never had to pray to Jesus in order to be saved or to go to Heaven in other words, it was already planned. Jesus the is the savior of the human race, but to those who follow the words of God and God's laws and study the words of the prophets, God's servants.

You do realize that Jesus Christ and all other prophets will fail you, will walk away from you for worshippin them, and not God. Shouldn't favor any prophet in prayer, only God, because God's a jealous God and is the only worthy being to be worshipped and prayed to.

If that made any sense.

P.S. Also keep in mind that if Judas never betrayed Jesus, would that mean that Jesus was actually never crucified... wouldn't that mean that the story of Jesus gettin slaughtered and his own town being burned down to the grown come to mind? Oh and the devilish ones were the Romans.
I do not believe in any of the so called "Lost Gospels". I have read them and they were written by false prophets.

I do not worship any prophets, saints or any of the like. I worship YAHWEH the FATHER.

I am redeemed unto YAHWEH by HIS SON YAHSHUA's blood.

Glory Hallelu~YAH!

illriginal
08-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Hebrews 13:5 talking about Jesus "He will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."


Let me ask you a quick question, was it the Jews or the Romans that had a court system, that chose which scriptures to take away and leave alone in the Holy Bible?

HalleluYAH
08-08-2006, 12:44 PM
Hebrews 13:5 talking about Jesus "He will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."
AMEN!

illriginal
08-08-2006, 12:46 PM
I do not believe in any of the so called "Lost Gospels". I have read them and they were written by false prophets.

I do not worship any prophets, saints or any of the like. I worship YAHWEH the FATHER.

I am redeemed unto YAHWEH by HIS SON YAHSHUA's blood.

Glory Hallelu~YAH!


So as a Christian, you pray to God and only worship God. You do not repent to Jesus christ nor speak of your sins to any other human being, correct?

HalleluYAH
08-08-2006, 12:50 PM
Let me ask you a quick question, was it the Jews or the Romans that had a court system, that chose which scriptures to take away and leave alone in the Holy Bible?
Neither, it was YAHWEH's Holy Spirit.

You may find this insightful...

Did you know:
Psalm 118 is the middle chapter of the entire Bible?
Psalm 117, before Psalm 118 is the shortest chapter in the Bible?
Psalm 119, after Psalm 118 is the longest chapter in the Bible?
The Bible has 594 chapters before Psalm 118 and 594 chapters after Psalm 118?
If you add up all the chapters except Psalm 118, you get a total of 1188 chapters?
1188 or Psalm 118 verse 8 is the middle verse of the entire Bible?

Coincidence? Not likely, in fact it's implausible. Yahweh did this so that we the believers would know each chapters is in the bible for a reason. This "center" of the bible was not even dicovered until recent times.

Should the central verse not have a fairly important message? "It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man." - Psalm 118:8

HalleluYAH
08-08-2006, 12:56 PM
So as a Christian, you pray to God and only worship God. You do not repent to Jesus christ nor speak of your sins to any other human being, correct?
I confess my sins first and foremost to the FATHER...
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1

I come to the FATHER in the name of YAHSHUA...
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

I also confess my sins before several brothers for accountability...
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

illriginal
08-08-2006, 01:11 PM
So you're admitting that you confess your sins to Jesus Christ. And you're also admitting that it is ok to confess your sins to another human being.

Forgive me for not understanding, but do you only "pray" to God or not?

Let's not use the terms/words; Lord and Father. Let's make it simple for everyone else to understand just in case they don't know what the Christian version of Lord and Father is. Let's stick to Jesus or Yashua and God, please.

TranceNRG
08-08-2006, 01:36 PM
Not without the Holy Spirit.

I guess no rabbi or ultraorthodox Jew will ever know about Judaism more than a televangelist eh

You see...
Jews do not even believe in the holy spirit.
So, you need to think, why would televangelists, push to help the Jews, when Judaism thinks Trinity to be another form of idoltary.

secondsight
08-08-2006, 01:37 PM
So you're admitting that you confess your sins to Jesus Christ. And you're also admitting that it is ok to confess your sins to another human being.

Jesus is both fully man and fully God. Confessing your sins in the name of Jesus is confessing your sins to God the Father.

To understand that of the Spirit you must be born of the Spirit.

illriginal
08-08-2006, 02:04 PM
Yep... keep believing that.
My questions are fully answered :D

1devil
08-08-2006, 04:02 PM
I guess no rabbi or ultraorthodox Jew will ever know about Judaism more than a televangelist eh

You see...
Jews do not even believe in the holy spirit.
So, you need to think, why would televangelists, push to help the Jews, when Judaism thinks Trinity to be another form of idoltary.
This why. Damm it I wish israel would do more to distance themselves from these nutloops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

MonsterG8r
08-08-2006, 05:19 PM
I guess no rabbi or ultraorthodox Jew will ever know about Judaism more than a televangelist eh

You see...
Jews do not even believe in the holy spirit.
So, you need to think, why would televangelists, push to help the Jews, when Judaism thinks Trinity to be another form of idoltary.

Spiritual blindness. I mean, they helped put their own Messiah to death for Pete's sake. Read Romans 9-11. I can't explain it better than Paul.

TranceNRG
08-08-2006, 05:40 PM
Spiritual blindness. I mean, they helped put their own Messiah to death for Pete's sake. Read Romans 9-11. I can't explain it better than Paul.

So, ALL rabbis and ultraorthodox jews are spiritually blind?
and you think by sending all the Jews to Israel and strengthening their beliefs in Judaism and Israel, they will be spiritually healed and start believing in Jesus as a saviour?

Don't you see the hypocrisy of these televangelists and evangelic lobby in states.

It has NOTHING to do with saving the Jews, it's all about as 1devil said, Christian Zionism and forcefully fulfilling a biblical "prophecy."

and at what cost?
death of innocent Jews and muslims.

illriginal
08-08-2006, 06:16 PM
So, ALL rabbis and ultraorthodox jews are spiritually blind?
and you think by sending all the Jews to Israel and strengthening their beliefs in Judaism and Israel, they will be spiritually healed and start believing in Jesus as a saviour?

Don't you see the hypocrisy of these televangelists and evangelic lobby in states.

It has NOTHING to do with saving the Jews, it's all about as 1devil said, Christian Zionism and forcefully fulfilling a biblical "prophecy."

and at what cost?
death of innocent Jews and muslims.



Doood watch out man... these folks can't handle that type of Haaq (sp?) LOL
You gotta let them deflower themselves first lol :D

Hey TranceNRG, quick question does Islam believe in the Armegeddon? If so, is it the same as the one that was created by Christianity? :D

TranceNRG
08-08-2006, 06:40 PM
Hey TranceNRG, quick question does Islam believe in the Armegeddon? If so, is it the same as the one that was created by Christianity? :D

Here's a fancy site that you can find your answer in :)

http://www.endoftimes.net/

In short, Islam believes in End of Times.



What are the End Times?

Some people may not be familiar with the concept of the "end times." For this reason, it will be useful to explain this concept shortly. The end times refers to a period which precedes the end of the world according to Islam.

When we bring the signs in the Qur'an and the detailed explanations in the hadiths of the Prophet (saas) together, we come to an important conclusion. The verses of the Qur'an and the hadiths of the Prophet (saas) indicate that the end times have two stages. The first period is one in which material and spiritual problems dominate the world; the second period to come is called the Golden Age, a time when the moral teaching of the Qur'an will dominate producing a deep sense of well-being in every sphere. When the Golden Age comes to an end and the world quickly enters a social decline, the coming of the last day is at hand.


This site consists of extracts from various books which examine the signs of the end times under the light of verses and hadith. It is clear that these signs have begun to happen one after the other and in the way they are described in the age in which we live. The fact that the coming of these signs was revealed fourteen centuries ago increases a believer's faith in Allah and his attachment to Him. It is surely not coincidence that so much signs have come true all together and in such a short period of time. These signs are the glad tidings of Allah to His believing servants.


This site has been prepared with a view to the Lord's promise: "Say: Praise be to Allah. He will show you His Signs and you will recognise them…" (Surat an-Naml: 93) There is a particularly important point to which we have wanted to draw attention: Allah knows the truth about everything. As with everything else, what we know about the end of the world comes only form what He has revealed to us.

illriginal
08-08-2006, 06:49 PM
Well one thing is for sure TranceNRG, I've realized alot of people I know and come into contact with have converted to Muslim or in fact looking to become Muslim. And race, age, nor gender has made any sort of difference, heck even my little cousin Andrew is becoming Muslim, picked up his Qur'an nearly a month ago. And I haven't even spoken to him about the Muslim relgion other than the fact that I've converted :D

EOY
08-08-2006, 06:51 PM
Well one thing is for sure TranceNRG, I've realized alot of people I know and come into contact with have converted to Muslim or in fact looking to become Muslim. And race, age, nor gender has made any sort of difference, heck even my little cousin Andrew is becoming Muslim, picked up his Qur'an nearly a month ago. And I haven't even spoken to him about the Muslim relgion other than the fact that I've converted :D

That's awsome!

illriginal
08-08-2006, 07:05 PM
That's awsome!


You tellin me? He's not even 15 yet and he's already looking deeply into religion. I'm very proud of him :)

TranceNRG
08-08-2006, 07:40 PM
Well one thing is for sure TranceNRG, I've realized alot of people I know and come into contact with have converted to Muslim or in fact looking to become Muslim. And race, age, nor gender has made any sort of difference, heck even my little cousin Andrew is becoming Muslim, picked up his Qur'an nearly a month ago. And I haven't even spoken to him about the Muslim relgion other than the fact that I've converted :D

I'm glad to hear that.
God will help those who genuinely seeks the truth, to find it. :)

And I hope by being an example for others in deeds and beliefs, you yourself could be chosen by God as an instrument of God to guide others to seek the truth.

Metapolitik
08-08-2006, 09:20 PM
Well one thing is for sure TranceNRG, I've realized alot of people I know and come into contact with have converted to Muslim or in fact looking to become Muslim. And race, age, nor gender has made any sort of difference, heck even my little cousin Andrew is becoming Muslim, picked up his Qur'an nearly a month ago. And I haven't even spoken to him about the Muslim relgion other than the fact that I've converted :D

That's good news! I love hearing others find the truthfulness of Islam. And you're right about Islam's universality. It transcends race, gender and age. In fact the first time I walked into my local mosque I expected to be the only young white guy there. I was wrong.

The more Westerners defame and redicule our faith the more it grows. :D

MonsterG8r
08-08-2006, 11:09 PM
So, ALL rabbis and ultraorthodox jews are spiritually blind?
and you think by sending all the Jews to Israel and strengthening their beliefs in Judaism and Israel, they will be spiritually healed and start believing in Jesus as a saviour?

Don't you see the hypocrisy of these televangelists and evangelic lobby in states.

It has NOTHING to do with saving the Jews, it's all about as 1devil said, Christian Zionism and forcefully fulfilling a biblical "prophecy."

and at what cost?
death of innocent Jews and muslims.

Explain how man can "force" a Biblical prophecy. How can a sovereign God's hand be forced to do anything??

TranceNRG
08-08-2006, 11:29 PM
Explain how man can "force" a Biblical prophecy. How can a sovereign God's hand be forced to do anything??

Aren't all the evangelist pushing/support state of Israel?
Don't they want all the Jews to move there?

Why do you think that is?
Why do you think, they're supporting the Jews, who consider these evangelists to be idoltors?
IF these evangelists believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to God, why are they strengthening the Jewish beliefs, which doesn't consider Jesus even as a prophet?
Are they purposely misguiding people away from heaven? in this case the Jews?


What is in this support for Jews and Israel, for these evangelists?

illriginal
08-09-2006, 12:00 AM
Explain how man can "force" a Biblical prophecy. How can a sovereign God's hand be forced to do anything??


Doesn't mean that prophecy WILL happen as soon as they want it to. People are just rediculous and try to make things work in "their" favor.

illriginal
08-09-2006, 12:08 AM
Aren't all the evangelist pushing/support state of Israel?
Don't they want all the Jews to move there?

Why do you think that is?
Why do you think, they're supporting the Jews, who consider these evangelists to be idoltors?
IF these evangelists believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to God, why are they strengthening the Jewish beliefs, which doesn't consider Jesus even as a prophet?
Are they purposely misguiding people away from heaven? in this case the Jews?


What is in this support for Jews and Israel, for these evangelists?


Damn... I just realized that, have you ever heard of Jerry Falwell and WWW.JVIM.COM (including their broadcast) it's some morbid ass comedy in a conservative yet heavenly kinda way lol.

MonsterG8r
08-09-2006, 02:05 PM
Doesn't mean that prophecy WILL happen as soon as they want it to. People are just rediculous and try to make things work in "their" favor.
If it's not of God, then nothing will happen. Again, how can what they are doing, force God's hand if it's not of Him??

TranceNRG
08-09-2006, 04:44 PM
If it's not of God, then nothing will happen.

I agree up to here.


Again, how can what they are doing, force God's hand if it's not of Him??

evil deeds aren't from God, yet they still occur





Moreover, I'm still waiting for answers from you and the original poster:)

tutendow
08-09-2006, 06:23 PM
Spiritual blindness. I mean, they helped put their own Messiah to death for Pete's sake. Read Romans 9-11. I can't explain it better than Paul.

Funny, Zionism is a secular, even at times atheistic, movement. Yet those religious Jews who are against it are somehow spiritually blind? How about Christians who don't follow the dictum, "You will know them by their works," wouldn't you call them spiritually blind as well?